Monday Tip-Off: The Road Not Taken

[Dee4Three]

December 12th, 2016: Nothing's Coming Up THRILLHO

Yes, I'm going to talk about 2K Pro-Am again, and the ongoing attempts of NLSC THRILLHO to unlock logo importing. As I've mentioned in previous articles and on the NLSC Podcast, we've been enjoying the mode enough to get online for several sessions per week, but we've also had our fair share of frustrating moments. While we have to take responsibility for some of them - we've definitely made our fair share of mistakes, after all - there have been times when it's felt like the game is out to get us. Maybe it's the "NBA Live Series Center" text on our court; perhaps we should change that, if we want fairer treatment?

In all seriousness, I've made a point of saving clips of many of those moments, usually for the purposes of bug reports and Wishlist feedback. However, it's gotten to the point where I can put together a "Shaqtin' a Fool" type of reel, showcasing the times where NBA 2K17 made our jaws drop for all the wrong reasons. Since THRILLHO is a blatant reference to The Simpsons, it only made sense to title it after another memorable Milhouse quote. Without any further ado, please enjoy a highlight reel of the best of our worst, from bloopers to bugs, and several other frustrating and bizarre moments in between!

phpBB [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njW6E6CALB8

Wow, just saw this video. So many of the things I mentioned in that big thread on gameplay are showing here. The charging issue, the horrible passing issue... That's the stuff that I can't believe got passed production, and hasn't been patched out. Those are literally game flow/pace breakers.

Ive been saving highlights of that stuff as well because they happen every game, and have thought about putting a compilation together. These issues are in all modes...

[Andrew]

I've stopped capturing examples at this point, as I have a rather large catalogue of them.

[Andrew]

April 3rd, 2017: Giving NBA 2K17 Online One More Try

Along with my co-hosts Arcane and Kenny, I've mentioned in various episodes of the NLSC Podcast that I've recently grown weary of playing NBA 2K17 online. After really getting into 2K Pro-Am last year with NBA 2K16, and constantly playing it for the first few months after NBA 2K17 came out, our interest in and enjoyment of the mode took a sudden downturn. After some frustrating sessions of both 2K Pro-Am and MyPARK - including one where we dejectedly called it a night after only one game - we all decided to take a break from the online modes in NBA 2K17, at least for a little while, but possibly until NBA 2K18 was released.

For the next couple of weeks, we stuck to the single player modes in NBA 2K17, or indeed, played other games altogether. However, I did find myself wanting to give 2K Pro-Am at least one more try, and I've taken part in a couple of sessions with the guys each of the past two Fridays. There was familiar frustration, but also the same recognisable fun and enjoyment from more positive sessions in the past. As a result, I may not be finished with the online experience in NBA 2K17 just yet. For other basketball gamers who have grown tired of online play, you can probably relate to the following reflections.

[Andrew]

April 10th, 2017: How Modding Has Changed

As of last August, the NLSC has been around for twenty years. I've had the privilege of running the site for fifteen of those twenty years, and suffice to say quite a few things have changed during that span. It's been interesting to observe those changes, and of course, crucial to adapt to them. As you might expect, that's sometimes been a challenging task. While we've expanded our content and commitment to covering basketball games during their development, a big part of what we do here in our community still revolves around modding. I expect that will always be the case, and as I've said before, we can be proud of the work we've done in that regard.

Of course, there have been changes to modding, too. For a start, instead of "modding" and "mods", in years gone by we mostly used the words "patching" and "patches". Once we started covering NBA 2K in greater depth and creating content for it, the word "modding" came to be used more frequently, either to distinguish it from NBA Live patching, or simply because the term was more common in other gaming communities. Whichever term you prefer, the changes to modding in our community extend well beyond the name for the hobby.

[Dee4Three]

It seems much harder to get a group together for big projects for the next gen versions of 2k on PC. Because, most of the big project people stayed with last gen, and many of them stayed because of CPU limitations. More big projects would be around for 2k17 if the graphics stayed last gen.

I also know a few people on here who do have CPU's that run the next gen versions, but think the gameplay is dull so they don't convert. Or, they feel that without an appropriate roster editor, it's not worth it.

I'll be releasing my UBR type base roster for NBA 2K17 this week, but the majority of the work was done by 3 people. It's a huge project for just 3 people, one kid who is full time school, and my brother and I who both work full time jobs.

If I had the 20-30 people working with me like the UBR had, I think it could be much bigger, and out much sooner.

[Andrew]

That's definitely been a challenge since the games became a PS4/X1 port. I still hope we can get some more extensive in-game tools; I have a feeling that might be the future of roster editing.

[Dee4Three]

Just a thought, you should do a Monday Tip-Off on the camera view discussion.

Because its funny, back in the early 2000's, Live came out with a game (I think it was Live 02), that had a really close broadcast view that really couldn't be adjusted appropriately, and it was tough for the user (I don't have that game anymore, but I think it was that one). NBA Fastbreak 98 (Or as you played it, NBA Action 98), had that default 2k-esque view, but lacked a good broadcast view. NBA Live 95-96-97 etc for Console had that overview from the corner look (Which they kind of brought back for NBA Live 16), and the older games only had one camera view (most of them), while Tecmo NBA Basketball, Bulls vs Blazers, NBA Showdown etc tried to emulate the broadcast view, games like David Robinsons basketball, one of the Magic Johnson Games tried something completely different.

A lot could be covered with an article like that.

[Andrew]

Right on, I'm always looking for article suggestions, and that's a good one. We could also be getting into Wayback Wednesday territory there, but it's obviously a contemporary issue, so I can definitely cover it in the Tip-Off. I'll make a note of it, and see what I can do.

[Dee4Three]

Right on, I'm always looking for article suggestions, and that's a good one. We could also be getting into Wayback Wednesday territory there, but it's obviously a contemporary issue, so I can definitely cover it in the Tip-Off. I'll make a note of it, and see what I can do.

[Andrew]

April 17th, 2017: The Great NBA 2K Camera Angle Debate

If you're a long-time basketball gamer, you'll probably remember a time when changing the camera angle simply wasn't an option. Whether it was a broadcast-style sideline view, an isometric angle, or a perspective from behind the player you were controlling, most games didn't give you a lot of choice when it came to the camera. In the mid 90s, however, a choice of camera angles and various zoom options began to make their way into basketball games. In recent times, there's been a focus on authentically replicating the broadcast angles for all 30 NBA teams.

This wider variety of camera angles has sparked some passionate debates over the years, specifically over which is the best camera angle to use. In NBA 2K, the discussion has pretty much boiled down to the broadcast camera - either the authentic angles, or ones inspired by them - and the 2K camera and its variants. Basketball gamers certainly seem to have some strong opinions about which camera is the best, or for that matter, which is the "correct" setting to use. As I'm a passionate basketball gamer myself, I obviously have a few thoughts on the subject.

[Dee4Three]

[Andrew]

Glad you enjoyed it.

[Andrew]

April 24th, 2017: Some More Thoughts on Constructive Feedback

If you haven't yet checked out the interview that our friends over at Operation Sports conducted with the NBA 2K team, I highly recommend giving it a look. I obviously got a kick out of seeing JaoSming and Leftos taking part, and hearing the NLSC receive some flattering mentions, but those were far from the only parts that I enjoyed. All the guys participating in the interview provided an interesting insight into how they came to join the team at 2K, what it's like to work in the industry, and how their perception of video game development changed from when they were members of the community. It's a four part series, and you can begin with Part 1 here.

The interview also discusses the importance of community feedback, noting that even when the developers aren't replying to comments, they are reading them. There were some good tips on how to get noticed, whether you're seeking employment at Visual Concepts, or simply want to provide the developers with feedback for official patches and future games. Some of their comments got me thinking once again about the way we give feedback - not only to 2K, but also EA - and how we can do a better job in that regard. Personally, it's also made me reflect a little on the way that I've critiqued the game and offered up feedback in recent years.

[Andrew]

May 1st, 2017: Should NBA Live 18 Be More Traditional?

EA Sports has their work cut out for them when it comes to NBA Live 18. The series hasn't been the dominant brand in sim-oriented basketball games for more than a decade now, with cancellations and subpar releases combining to erode the trust of the fanbase. At the same time, it's also shown potential and promise, and judging by some of the whispers from gamers who have been involved in recent playtesting sessions, there's cause for optimism. NBA Live 18 obviously has a lot to prove, and as I've said many times before, it needs to be a well-rounded product. Improved gameplay is paramount, but deeper modes and roster customisation are also vital.

I think most of us agree on that, and we all have our own specific suggestions as to what we'd like to see out of future NBA Live releases. My first seven Friday Five articles of 2017 were dedicated to discussing ideas for this year's game and beyond, and it's been a recurring topic in the Forum and on the NLSC Podcast. For EA Sports to make a dent in Visual Concepts' share of the market, their next game needs to be a quality release with an appealing hook, such as an All-Star Weekend mode. However, their overall approach and direction is also important, and that's something that I've been thinking about lately.

[Andrew]

May 8th, 2017: Are Two Sim NBA Video Games Enough?

Something that's come up on a few times on the NLSC Podcast when we've been reminiscing about the old days of basketball gaming is the dwindling number of NBA video games. Although no other series has enjoyed the same longevity as NBA Live or NBA 2K, several other developers have released NBA licensed sim games over the years. Some series ran for two or three years, some skipped a year, and others didn't get off the ground after the first game. In any case, while EA Sports and Visual Concepts remained the biggest names in the genre, some years have seen the release of several sim-oriented titles, along with the occasional arcade title here and there.

These days, NBA Live and NBA 2K stand as the only two five-on-five, sim-oriented NBA video games that are still being developed, and only 2K has an unbroken streak of annual releases over the past decade. With 2K's dominance of the marketplace, Live's struggles, and the lack of any other developers throwing their hat into the ring, basketball gamers are left with little choice. Saber Interactive are joining the picture with the promising NBA Playgrounds, but that's an arcade-oriented game. As far as the sim experience is concerned, it's fair to wonder, are two sim NBA video games enough?

[deihatein]

I think competition can be good. With 2K having the monoply and the most recognizable brand, there is no surprise that we are seeing much of the same gameplay at this point, if EA or any other developer step up creates a basketball with the same or higher quality, I'm sure 2K is going to step up their game as well.

I disagree at your point that there is not enough time to play both games, yeah sure that might be true but there is going to be some people that will invest their time on which game is more fun and enjoyable to play.

[Andrew]

I said that it can be difficult, not that it's impossible.

[[Q]]

I think having a 3rd game helps bring new ideas to the table. 2k is so far ahead that Live basically has to try to copy them in one form or another. but when they were a bit more even, they'd take stuff from each other but having a 3rd game like NBA 06 brought new ideas to the table like using the baseline camera as the default or full TNT integration

[Andrew]

Well, 2K has borrowed some ideas from Live in recent years, albeit generally smaller ones and they've put their own spin on them. I think that's fine, though. If a third game came along with great ideas, so much the better.

[Andrew]

May 15th, 2017: Basketball Games SHOULD Borrow Ideas

Fact: NBA Live has borrowed ideas from NBA 2K. Fact: NBA 2K has borrowed ideas from NBA Live. A lot of basketball gamers may be inclined to sneer and suggest that it isn't the case, but there are numerous examples in both games that prove it to be true. Right stick dribbling controls, face scanning, temporary player cards in the team building modes...a lot of features and concepts have been adopted by one game after first appearing in another. There may be differences in the way the ideas are implemented, with each game putting their own spin on them, but the basic concept is similar to the original feature.

You might suggest that NBA Live and NBA 2K need to have something unique about the experiences they offer, or take different approaches to certain common features. That's a fair comment, and something that I generally agree with. However, both games ultimately have the same goal: to realistically portray the sport of basketball, specifically the style we see in the NBA, and provide gamers with experiences that accurately replicate aspects of the league in detail. With a common goal and audience, it only makes sense that there's some overlap in what both games are doing. To that end, basketball video games absolutely should borrow ideas from one another.

[deihatein]

If they make thier own spin on it. Sure why not.

[Andrew]

Generally that's what happens. Other than that, if there's really only one way of doing it, and it's a good idea, then no point not doing it just to be different, or because someone else did it first.

[Andrew]

May 22nd, 2017: Green Releases in NBA 2K

A few weeks back, NBA 2K Gameplay Director Mike Wang made a candid statement about the future of green releases. Beluba's goal is to wean basketball gamers off the concept of green releases being guaranteed baskets, in order to strive for more realism and competitive balance. We've seen NBA 2K17 take a few steps in that direction, with several tuning updates focused on shooting mechanics being pushed through since the game's release. Generally speaking, those updates have sought to reduce the number of green releases by making them more difficult to achieve, tweak the percentages of near-perfect releases, or re-balance the shooting in some other way.

Results have been mixed, and a lot of gamers have expressed frustration with the constant changes to shooting in NBA 2K17. On top of some tweaks seemingly being either too effective or largely ineffective, there's been a concern that changes that are made in order to enhance the online experience are negatively affecting single player gameplay. Beyond that, opinion is divided as to whether green releases should be guaranteed baskets - assuming the attempts aren't blocked, of course - or whether they should simply have the best odds of being made, according to a player's ratings and attributes. I have to admit, at times I'm a little torn myself.

[[Q]]

I've actually thought about the concept of the "perfect release" since playing 2k7 and seeing guys bury free throws with Ben Wallace because he had an easy animation to time. While someone like Yao was tough to hit with.

I've always felt that bad shooters who have perfect releases should still miss more often than not.

[Andrew]

That's definitely the problem with the mechanic. Realism and player abilities can be overridden if you familiarise yourself with the animation.