Lakers Thread

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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jackal on Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:05 am

That's nice. I don't care how long of a preseason/offseason he would've had, he still wouldn't know how to use his post players.

And hoorah for the 50+ seasons? What works for other teams doesn't work for every team or else teams would be jumping over each other to play that system.

He's a gimmick coach who can't adjust to his players.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:07 am

then point the finger at the people who hired him.

Stoudemire had his best years playing in the "gimmick" system. In fact, this small ball takeover you previously discussed is a by product of success of this alleged gimmick system

D'Antoni's system seems to be doing well in NYK ;)
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby dare on Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:19 am

The system obviously works, see NYK but Woodson adjust that system to the players he got. He even had some iso plays for Melo. The thing about D'Antoni I did not see any adjustment on his system, he forces that system to our group of players.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jackal on Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:59 am

air gordon wrote:then point the finger at the people who hired him.

Stoudemire had his best years playing in the "gimmick" system. In fact, this small ball takeover you previously discussed is a by product of success of this alleged gimmick system

D'Antoni's system seems to be doing well in NYK ;)


I've said enough about Jim Buss hiring the wrong coach when the right one was more than willing to come back.

Stoudemire was young & still had his knees.

Woodson adjusted the system to fit his star. Howard should be the star...and small ball doesn't have shit to do with D'Antoni. Nelly played small ball even back when Shaq was still playing.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:31 pm

How would you rate the problems in Lakers La La land right now?

1) Fat'antoni 30%
2) Kobe the ballhoggy 20%
3) Pau 15%
4) Dwight's freethroow & underacheiving 15%
5) Bench + Role Players 10%
6) Other 10%
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:32 pm

Stoudemire made his only all nba team after his microfracture surgery ;)

Shaq in his prime mowed down everyone. Nelson's real brand of small ball was playing 3 guards and two small forwards back in the late 80's. no other team was doing that or tried that ever since. that system has shit to do with D'Antoni's pick-n-roll spread offense. you are right about that one

the concept of D'Antoni's offense makes a lot of sense and that is why more teams are copycatting it/finding personnel to fit it. Unless you're the Adleman run Sacto kings, most NBA offense revovle around pick and roll/or isolations. it's difficult to defend if you can space the floor with perimeter players. more and more we are seeing "stretch" 4's or 5's. Ryan Anderson got a 4yr/$34 mil contract? say what?

Howard's magic teams were successful because Rashard lewis, turkoglu, nelson could hit 3's if you chose to double him. Gortat was a beast but rarely were they on the floor together. the defending champs, Miami, decided to do away with a center position altogether and put Bosh there instead.

as discussed before- it's easier to defend 2 low post guys. the lack of spacing makes it easier. if anything the lakers are the ones behind the learning curve though i wouldn't say the offense is the primary problem ;)

at this point of his career- can your boy, Gasol, still play at a championship level at the "4"?
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby benji on Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:57 pm

NovU wrote:How would you rate the problems in Lakers La La land right now?

1) Fat'antoni 30%
2) Kobe the ballhoggy 20%
3) Pau 15%
4) Dwight's freethroow & underacheiving 15%
5) Bench + Role Players 10%
6) Other 10%

The bench is about 80% of the problem. And it would be even if Pau and Nash were healthy, Phil Jackson was the coach and the team was 17-7.
air gordon wrote:Howard's magic teams were successful because Rashard lewis, turkoglu, nelson could hit 3's if you chose to double him.

...

it's easier to defend 2 low post guys. the lack of spacing makes it easier.

This is a key thing a lot of experts are missing about the Lakers. Metta is effectively their lone three point shooter. Especially with no Nash. Kobe is not going to accept the role, Nash has to run the pick and roll as the ballhandler, Dwight can't play the high post effectively because he's not a good passer or dribbler really and they certainly can't camp both bigs down low with zero floor spacing.

Duhon isn't effective enough overall on offense for his three point shooting to be a solution, and Meeks is basically not out there when Kobe is.

If Kobe was willing, they'd probably be better off letting him handle the ball in the primary half court role with Meeks as the "point guard" to have the extra shooter. Even that would never be as effective as Nash though.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:10 pm

Seems to me bigger problem is the defense. Lack of communication and nobody's making an effort to stay on their man. Perimeter player constantly lose their man and relies on help D. It is also the reason you don't see too many transition baskets from the Lakers.

This Lakers team constantly falls behind by 10-20 points and relies on Kobe's late game baskets to make the final scoreboard somewhat respectable, which by then is way too late. Dwight's been also horrid. On the other night, it was pathetic to watch Greg Smith constantly going for uncontested lay ups while Dwight helplessly was watching from 1 feet away. It's become quite normal to see the other teams' big man posting big numbers against the Lakers(allowing easy penetration is also the cause). Effort just doesn't seem to be there wholy as a team on defensive end, no hustle and no focus. Offense unfortunately doesn't look much better in consequence as good ball movements are scarce.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Radioman on Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:32 pm

I dont see them winning games even if Nash returns in best shape. Like others said before their defense is not existing.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby mrmoves20 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:47 am

Just thought of a possible trade that would send Howard to the Bulls. What do you think?

Bulls receive:
Dwight Howard
Metta World Peace
'13 2nd rd pick

Lakers receive:
Joakim Noah
Luol Deng
The Best Young Team Since OKC - The BROW and the Stingy HORNETS!!!
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:22 am

I think the Bulls would be mad to accept that with Howard's impending free agency and previous lack of interest in going to Chicago.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby benji on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:27 am

NovU wrote:Seems to me bigger problem is the defense.

Again, the team has been battered with injuries and the bench is terrible.

The defense is no worse than the Knicks and Heat and will improve with health and time. Gasol, Nash, Blake are like first-team defense compared to Jamison, Ebanks, Morris. Duhon's a great defender but his offensive offense play a huge role in the morbid periods that lead to those deficits you mention.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:39 pm

Good point, although I don't like how that excuse is repeatedly played these days that the Lakers aren't designed to win without Pau and Nash on the floor.

You know it's bit folly... how many all nba defensive team has Kobe made? lol. Metta best known for excellent man-to-man defensive game. And Dwight the best defensive big man for this era. :lol:
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby benji on Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:13 am

NovU wrote:Good point, although I don't like how that excuse is repeatedly played these days that the Lakers aren't designed to win without Pau and Nash on the floor.

It's not that as much as it is this is a four man team. Two of those are missing and one's a little gimpy still.

Look at your Heat last year when Bosh was out and when he came back.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Bruce on Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:03 pm

yey metta! handling 6th man duties extremely well.

funny though in tonight's game, kobe was asked for possession several times in ot. but nash took the ball inside and made the game clincher. I don't think that will sit well with kobe. lol

I wonder though, like I mentioned before. Right now it is a distant realiry but Kevin Love has still been talking smack about the management in minny. and Love does hold ties with LA. interest for Gasol by minny still seems to be there. It would look like Minny would be shooting themselves, but yhen again, don't they always? I don't hate Gasol and maybe yes he might just be a victim of the coaching system, but having a younger PF would help the Lakers transition to the future if their current "super team" falls apart.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:45 pm

Lol. Kobe took 41 shots. I don't think this will sit well with Dwight. I think there's good chance for him to walk this offseason.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Bruce on Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:54 am

NovU wrote:Lol. Kobe took 41 shots. I don't think this will sit well with Dwight. I think there's good chance for him to walk this offseason.


for a while when nash was still out with the leg injury, kobe was dishing out assists at a high rate. it would have been nice to have seen nash and kobe dishing out assists together at a high rate. the basketball iq of the two put together is just incredible. the lakers are running too many iso plays for kobe.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:55 am

Assists by Kobe is not an issue. Howard is an alpha male and hates being a second fiddle which exactly he is with Kobe. I don't think this was what he expected when he chose the Lakers. Wasn't that a partial reason he specifically wanted BKNs Deron not Derrick Rose? The Lakers initially weren't in his list as Kobe wanted him to be a Tyson Chandler which exactly he became.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:32 am

Winning has a way of smoothing things over, so if the Lakers get it together there's likely a reasonable chance he'll be more accepting of the role. Anything short of a championship though, I think there are pretty good odds on him walking.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Bruce on Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:20 pm

I don't think it id an actual championship rather the need to bask in the limelight that gets dwight going.

dwight has nevet been a dominant scorer, so it is hard to see him bring the consistent #1 scorer on any team. so unles he starts showing off the moves olajuwon taught him, it is hard to imagine he will be happy on any team.

the solution to keeping dwight in LA? marry him off to a kardashian.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby The X on Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:44 am

I'm happy to admit I like watching the Lakers now that they got Nash & are coached by D'Antoni. I even find myself cheering for them. I want Nash to win a title :cool:
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:35 pm

That certainly goes against your usual love of underdog teams. ;)
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby The X on Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:04 am

A bit strange, but a lot of ppl are doubting them & wanting them to lose. They are underdogs compared to Heat & Thunder. They're obviously big dogs when you're talking underdogs, so can't really call them underdogs :P . I think it's more I like to see offensive minded teams with good point guards.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Andrew on Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:07 pm

I still don't know that I'd call them underdogs; they're certainly underachieving, even with the injuries they've endured thus far. In any event, it just stood out to me, but fair enough. :)
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Bruce on Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:03 am

Andrew wrote:I still don't know that I'd call them underdogs; they're certainly underachieving, even with the injuries they've endured thus far. In any event, it just stood out to me, but fair enough. :)


i would call them ill fitted. for me gasol has to go, because at this point of his career he should already naturally transition to play more minutes at center like what garnett is doing. most nights the tandem of howard and gasol is too slow. Gasol is not a bad post defender, but also he was never a great help defender. So now Dwight is left all by himself to guard the post and players that penetrated. so like what I have been saying since last season's playoff, I'd rather see hill even sacre rather than gasol start at 4 . Nash was never for me a good signing for the Lakers. The Lakers especially Kobe gambles a lot on defense, Kobe needs a back court mate that has the ability to keep up with elite guard on defense, not an elite play maker that is an absolute ghost on defense. anyway this is how I see where the lakers are getting t wrong.
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