McGrady officially wants out

I believe his contract will expire in 2007 if he decides not to opt out in 2005.

Marion just proved himself to be a good role player. Not a super-star.

Marion is a lot better than a role player. He averaged almost 20 and 10 from the SF position. He's a great rebounder for his side. Is a good defender (he was 2nd in the league in steals per game, and got 1.3 blocks). If the all-star team was 15 he would be in it IMO. He isn't a superstar, but did anyone expect that? There's how many superstars in the league? I would say 5.

I wouldn't mind trading Marion either, with the departure of Marbury...Marion just proved himself to be a good role player. Not a super-star.

Role player, yes a player that averages 18-20 points, 9 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals and nearly 2 blocks at the SF spot is considered a role player.

Ok, ok, I exagerated alot.

What I meant was, with Marbury this guy looked like diamonds.

Without him however, he just looks like gold. I'm not complaining, he's good. & Gold is good.

Point is, the management traded away Marbury in the hopes that Marion & Stoudemire would carry the team. Tch, they are carrying the team, but I bet the management also thought his production would go up with the departure of Marbury. Thus, maybe he scores some more, gets a few more assists etc etc. With Marbury's departure, Marion hasn't really any change in stats, sure that's a good thing when you're averaging 20, 8 and 2-3. But if the managemet was expecting him to produce a bit more, that didn't really happen.

He's good, they thought he could be better with Stephon, his stats have remained the same, whereas I expected his stats to go up a bit with Marbury leaving.

Anyways, this isn't a Marbury-Marion thread, I apologise for making that comment.

On a side-note, I think Kidd does a wonderfull job of making Martin look good.

I think the main player management was looking to improve was Joe Johnson who moved into the starting line-up with Steph and Penny leaving. I heard somewhere that during March and April he averaged 20, 5, and 5. Impressive.

That's also very possible, I thought it was more to improve Marions production, I could be very wrong.

Plus, Barbosa didn't too bad of a job with Marbury leaving, perhaps they wanted to give him some more time also.

They were looking more to improve Joe Johnson, Amare and Barbosa.

If you look you'll see that Amare upped his point average to 20 points per game from last year. They were playing JJ about 42 minutes a game after Penny and Marbury left, and Barbosa was trying at the point.

Marion was shooting bad at first and starting doing better later, but he wasn't really getting more shots, he needs to improve his one on one abilities in the halfcourt, and his passing, and he'll be pretty sick. He took 16.9 shots a game as opposed to 18.3 shots a game last year.
He also needs to improve his ability to get to the line, he's to atheletic for his own good and uses his atheleticism to always aviod contacts and adjust his shots.

Also the 1.4 shots a game might now seem like much, but in the season that's about 111 less shots. He shot 44% so thats about 48.8 less made shots, and 15% of his made shots were three's, so thats about 7.3 more three's, if that's all added to his average, he'd average 20.3 PPG.

you gotta be kidding me! management expecting marion's numbers to go up when marbury left?! have you even watched the suns?

marion made a living off of fastbreaks, garbage points, and mostly marbury setting him up

if anything, his numbers were going to take a dip after losing a playmaker in marbury and replacing him with a scoring pg rookie in barbosa

as it stands, marion's being wasted. he just hangs by the 3pt land, shot fakes, then swings the ball.

fgrep15 was right on- needs to work on a go to move in halfcourt and get to the line more often. it would help too if the team brought in a pass first PG

you gotta be kidding me! management expecting marion's numbers to go up when marbury left?! have you even watched the suns?

marion made a living off of fastbreaks, garbage points, and mostly marbury setting him up

That's why management probably thought if Marion was on his own a little more he would improve a bit more. With Marbury he was just feeding off of Marbury, without Marbury you would expect him to become more independant, and create stuff for himself, right?

That's why management probably thought if Marion was on his own a little more he would improve a bit more. With Marbury he was just feeding off of Marbury, without Marbury you would expect him to become more independant, and create stuff for himself, right?

you're a complete idiot to think his numbers were going to go up with marbury gone. cut off the head, the body isn't going to function. also factor in 2 new starters in the lineup

i guess i'll give you a break since you haven't seen the suns play. "management probably thought.."

the suns hardly ran plays for marion when marbs was around. and most of the time it was a lob. i wonder why? would management want marion to develop a better 'individual' game? yes- phoenix knows what marion's mealticket is and would gladly like to see him add another dimension. but it's not magically going to happen, especially when he's been playing a different style of game for his entire career in the nba. hmm maybe shaq should learn a face up game too...

Marion is an open court player, he has a little pull up off the dribble in the half court but his other points are off put backs, layups, dunks and three's or long jumpers. He has that move where he puts the ball through his legs like twice then goes to the left or right and pulls up for a jumper but it's nothing special.

Marbury is not Jason Kidd on the break but he can push the ball and get Marion easy baskets. Barbosa is very fast but he doesn't have near the passing ability and court vision on the break, so even though he can get down the court he doesn't get Marion the easy shots he needs and doesn't get him the ball in the right spots.

Also Marion and Marbury knew how to play together, they had adjusted to each other and knew how to feed off each other.

In the half court the ball went to JJ to create, and Amare and Marion just to score, but Marion really needs some half court moves, and needs to start getting to the line.
Jamal Crawford is like that in getting to the line, he also avoids contact and shoots up that floater, but he's said to be very agressive in practices, I don't understand.

you're a complete idiot

I'm an idiot, I'm not an idiot who lost a bet and was pathetic enough to pull a stunt claiming my room-mate was posting, thus the same IP address.

No, that idiotic...I'm not.

Pathetic fool, "Oh, room-mate's posting, not me. " Wonder where that fugging moron went...

Andrew, I'm not supposed to remind people about the bet? Make people stop calling me names and I won't have to resort to such petty remarks.

Thanks for the insight Fgrep, I learn something new everyday.

lol sorry, you're not per se an idiot. it was not directed at you personally. but your opinion on this matter is.

it's obvious you don't know what you're talking about here yet you persist.

i've seen many suns games these past years and have pointed out logical reasons based on what i've seen that are supporting my case.

so what now? everytime i call you out on something/prove you wrong you're gonna have a sissy fit?

yeh real grown up, PJ. i guess that makes it right for you to call someone names? or it's right when someone calls you a name, you feel forced to say something offensive back? for someone who posts here quite often, i'm surprised you do this

anyway, this is not a personal issue for me. you're making comments about a player that are off base and i'm letting you know

Jamal Crawford is like that in getting to the line, he also avoids contact and shoots up that floater, but he's said to be very agressive in practices, I don't understand.

i agree to a point but the difference is marion is an above the rim type of player, has the strength, and is more in the position to draw fouls. i've seen marion dunk posterize many players and wonder why he doesn't try that more often. crawford on the hand is not built yet to take contact and i'm still not sure he has the explosiveness to be a great finisher at the rim

you guys are both respecitively wrong. crawford, do you seriously expect anyone not to respond when you call them a complete idiot? pj maybe shouldntve counter-attacked, but oh well. Anyway, now you two can go back to pretending you're not in love Cuz we all know people who hate each other at the start always end up the most compatible in the end

i guess marion kinda proved he doesnt need a great point to be succesful, i think phoenix moved marbury and penny because they wanted to get joe johnson more minutes and more ball control.

Marions a good player, but his shot looks kinda wierd...... like him these basketball players are so tall, hell, they'd probably be freaks akin to midgets if it werent for basketballl. They're like tall apes with no hair.

Crawford...you're out of line calling Jackal a "complete idiot." Jackal...I know it's hard to avoid flame-baiting but we have to keep things civil.

Let's keep this discussion going with no more personal attacks.