KOBE TALK (Your one-stop shop for everything Kobe!)

Like real basketball, as well as basketball video games? Talk about the NBA, NCAA, and other professional and amateur basketball leagues here.

Postby GloveGuy on Sat May 01, 2004 6:19 am

If Kobe left, it would increase the level of Payton and Malone's play, together and individually. They have great chemistry, and if Kobe were to leave, it would increase the number of time's they'd be able to play off each other. Shaq would still be able to do his thing, but a Payton-Malone duo would finally come to life without Kobe.
User avatar
GloveGuy
 
Posts: 1588
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 12:55 am
Location: Boston, MA

Postby . on Sun May 02, 2004 10:15 pm

ryant is Lakers' only hope
Bruce Jenkins
Saturday, May 1, 2004
©2004 San Francisco Chronicle | Feedback | FAQ


URL: sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/05/01/SPG7I6DVCV1.DTL

We're big fans of Charles Barkley around the 3-Dot, but he got it wrong this time. He's saying it always comes back to Shaquille O'Neal with the Los Angeles Lakers, that everything else is irrelevant in comparison, but he's ignoring one of the most compelling story lines in NBA history.

In the upcoming Lakers-Spurs series -- only in David Stern's unbending world do we reach the playoff summit a month too soon -- Shaq will be outplayed by Tim Duncan in every phase of the game but the offensive boards. The Lakers will be continually flustered by Manu Ginobili, scurrying around the court like a modern-day Gail Goodrich. Tony Parker will be a little too quick, too often. Derek Fisher will continue to get too much playing time ahead of the infinitely superior Gary Payton, and the Spurs will retain their hard-earned edges in depth and team cohesion.

And yet, the Lakers can win this series. We're saying they will. Like Phil Mickelson on the 18th green or Derek Jeter snapping an 0-for-32, some stories are just too endearing to demean.

Kobe Bryant can pull this thing off all by himself. Remember, Shaq has no championship rings without Kobe. None. It works in reverse, too, but somebody has to make the twisting layups, killer jump shots and clutch free throws in the final two minutes, and that ain't Shaq.

Bryant's performance this season has surpassed anything accomplished by his idol, Michael Jordan, or anyone else at this level of the game. The man has played an entire season under the burden of an impending sexual-assault trial, and whatever your personal feelings about that night in Colorado, you really don't know a thing.

You do know that Kobe showed up around tip-off time for three different games this season after same-day flights from Colorado. In those games, he has lit up Sacramento for 36 points, beaten Denver with a game-winning shot and, in the climactic Game 5 of the Houston series, personally wrapped it up with 31 points and 10 assists.

You know that his teammates basically despise him, often imploring him to pass the ball more, then relying on his shooting like oxygen when it matters. You know he mostly can't stand them, either, or coach Phil Jackson. You know that Kobe has walked essentially alone through life, from his upbringing in Italy to his high school days in Philadelphia to his early entrance into the NBA, always a little bit different from those around him. Now there are strained relationships with his wife and parents, and when you think about it, his only true friend in life might be his baby girl, Natalia.

Through all this, the man is positively Jordan-like on the court. No feat is beyond him. There's a blockbuster movie coming up in the NBA this week, and Kobe plays the Denzel Washington role. Shaq is Clint Howard.
.
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2002 10:02 pm

Postby Fresh8 on Sun May 02, 2004 11:53 pm

Yes- Kobe is LA's only hopes... so is the rest of the team... but it is true that Kobe is improtant!

I'd like to make one statement- Kobe's idol is MJ but that doesnt mean Kobe is the next MJ- he's Kobe Bryant (greater than MJ....i hope)
User avatar
Fresh8
The poster formerly known as Sit
 
Posts: 14872
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2002 5:19 pm

Postby . on Mon May 03, 2004 12:30 am

I wonder who said that MJ is his idol, because I have tons of Kobe Bryant video footage, where he mentions that Magic Johnson was his idol
.
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2002 10:02 pm

Postby Ruff Ryder on Mon May 03, 2004 5:25 am

Maybe when he said MJ he was referring to Magic Johnson. :wink:
Image

'Retired'

"You can’t drive a knife into a man’s back nine inches, pull it out six inches, and call it progress."-Malcolm X
User avatar
Ruff Ryder
 
Posts: 5996
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 7:17 am
Location: VA RLY

Postby magius on Mon May 03, 2004 8:58 am

did anyone seriosly think a san francisco newspaper wouldnt be behind la or kobe? hey,kobes good ill give him that,but hes not in my top 20 thats for sure. maybe top 100. anyone who thinks kobe coulve won any championships without shaq is living in an alternate reality. its an assumption,but im 90% sure shaq wouldve won one without kobe. either kobe or shaq should leave and im fairly sure shaq could speed dial a replacement if thats the case. the only reason anyone likes kobe is because he hits circus shots -- in otherwords, low %. he is the master of the low % shot ill give him that, but if you think thats going to win championships alone youre sadly mistaken. a game is better won during the regular duration than to the less common heroics in the 4th. you dont need heroics if youre already winning you need some good defense and good team offense to create high % shots. the value in the la organization goes like this: 1. shaq, 2. jax, 3. kobe.

i want one of them to leave now so the obvious truth can be revealed--kobe is underrated by haters, vastly overrated by lovers, and perfectly rated by the unbias realist critic :D
User avatar
magius
 
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:37 pm

Postby Drex on Mon May 03, 2004 9:06 am

I'd like to see the Lakers play without Kobe (Y) .
Image
User avatar
Drex
You bastards!!!
 
Posts: 6074
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 10:48 am
Location: Iquique, Chile

Postby Jackal on Mon May 03, 2004 11:17 am

magius wrote:i want one of them to leave now so the obvious truth can be revealed--kobe is underrated by haters, vastly overrated by lovers, and perfectly rated by the unbias realist critic :D


Thank you, I think you're the first one to realise that Kobe Bryant is in it for glory. There would be no need for heroics for which he's widley applauded, if he were to play a normal balanced game.

Anyways, I've tried this way too many times to go into this.
User avatar
Jackal
 
Posts: 14877
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:59 am

Postby Boyk on Mon May 03, 2004 11:55 pm

perfectly rated by the unbias realist critic


Yer thats true, and them realist critics, as you say, all praise him aswell.
I'm talking about the real NBA writers, coaches etc. not you so called people on here who refer to yourselves as unbiased critics :roll:
think about it :wink:

Also, people, like that guy said in the article, Shaq won zilch rings without kobe.
looks at it, he had all them years with Penny, was said to be the best player in the NBA after Jordan at that time, they got swept by the Houston Rockets in Finals.
ok so he leaves them, comes over to the Lakers, they then also grab Kobe from the Draft/Trades.
They dont win it for 2 years with Shaq by himself with some good players and decent role players.
Kobe comes into his own, and guess what! they win 3 in a row.

So i think you people who go on about Shaq, and how everything comes back to him when it concerns the Lakers, need to wake up and go back about 4 or 5 years, when Shaq had no rings, and relise that Kobe played a big apart in there trio of rings aswell.
Image
Thanks to TEH G.O.A.T for Sig
Formerly known as Laddas
Watch out for Kobe,Melo n the Lakers!
User avatar
Boyk
 
Posts: 1697
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 1:51 am
Location: Kalgoorlie, Western Australia

Postby magius on Tue May 04, 2004 7:17 am

do you really think any intelligent writer or coach is going to risk angering kobe lovers? i mean seriosly, kobe rapes a girl and SHE's the victim of death threats, imagine if someone, god forbid, reveal the obvious truth. as long as you dont give coaches or players any distinct reason to attack you they wont, think about it. maybe behind youre back, but not publicly.

anyway we have our own beliefs and we all think our own are right, and i dont think anyone im trying to convince is open enough to be convinced so ill just leave it at that, and hope kobe and shaq split ways so when kobes leading his team to nowhere land actionsll speak louder than words.
User avatar
magius
 
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:37 pm

Postby Jackal on Tue May 04, 2004 8:01 am

See why I stopped trying Magius? :idea:
User avatar
Jackal
 
Posts: 14877
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:59 am

Postby Boyk on Tue May 04, 2004 11:45 pm

do you really think any intelligent writer or coach is going to risk angering kobe lovers?


Why would they care??
They proly wouldnt give a shit about us, they put T-Mac down,Allen Iverson down, so why not Kobe???
coz the only thing to put him down on would be the rape charge(which would be to low) and his crazy shooting.

i mean seriosly, kobe rapes a girl


That hasnt been proven, also consider she fucked other guys before/after Kobe.

See why I stopped trying Magius?


So you think Shaq done it all by himself and without Kobe?
Image
Thanks to TEH G.O.A.T for Sig
Formerly known as Laddas
Watch out for Kobe,Melo n the Lakers!
User avatar
Boyk
 
Posts: 1697
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 1:51 am
Location: Kalgoorlie, Western Australia

Postby Jackal on Wed May 05, 2004 3:01 am

I've made arguments as to why Shaq is more valuable then Kobe. That's what I've done. I've not said that they can win without eachother, because I just dont know that. I won't speculate. I've stopped trying to change Kobe Lovers' mind about Shaq being more valuable. You folks just dont see it. We're not discussing who can win without who, we're talking about VALUE!! Shaq demands the double, thus making it alot easier for Shaq. Kobe makes it easier for Shaq, BUT not AS easy as Shaq makes it for Kobe.

I give up. :roll:
User avatar
Jackal
 
Posts: 14877
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:59 am

Postby magius on Wed May 05, 2004 7:13 am

different opinions and all our arguments have been recycled from the beginning of mankind, goodbye i go now :wink: i dont like or hate kobe enough to be typing so much in his behalf. :D
User avatar
magius
 
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:37 pm

Postby Boyk on Wed May 05, 2004 11:52 pm

Psycho Jackal wrote:I've made arguments as to why Shaq is more valuable then Kobe. That's what I've done. I've not said that they can win without eachother, because I just dont know that. I won't speculate. I've stopped trying to change Kobe Lovers' mind about Shaq being more valuable. You folks just dont see it. We're not discussing who can win without who, we're talking about VALUE!! Shaq demands the double, thus making it alot easier for Shaq. Kobe makes it easier for Shaq, BUT not AS easy as Shaq makes it for Kobe.

I give up. :roll:


Hey listen!
ive always said Shaq is more valuable.
But ive said Kobe is the better player.

But Shaq aint the same player he was 2 years ago, now you gotta admit that, Hes Lazy as hell right now, i mean someone tell the trash-talking fat fucker to run the floor on defense!
then maybe the lakers may play better defensively!
Right now, and its right now im talking, kobe is the more valuable player at the moment, than shaq is.
im sorry if you dont like it, but thats the way i see it now, last year is when i started to see how valuable kobe was, year before that etc. its been shaq, but it hasnt just been shaq.

I give up. :roll:


And why give up?
tell me how this year shaq has been more valuable
Image
Thanks to TEH G.O.A.T for Sig
Formerly known as Laddas
Watch out for Kobe,Melo n the Lakers!
User avatar
Boyk
 
Posts: 1697
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 1:51 am
Location: Kalgoorlie, Western Australia

Postby Jackal on Thu May 06, 2004 1:45 am

That's why I give up...

His presence alone makes him more valuable.

Seriously, you see any other team with 150 KG of that lump?
User avatar
Jackal
 
Posts: 14877
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:59 am

Postby magius on Thu May 06, 2004 6:36 am

well there is oliver miller...... :D
User avatar
magius
 
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:37 pm

Postby The Game on Thu May 06, 2004 6:36 am

Psycho Jackal wrote:That's why I give up...

His presence alone makes him more valuable.

Seriously, you see any other team with 150 KG of that lump?


Oliver Miller? :lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
The Game
 
Posts: 736
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:16 pm
Location: Philippines

Postby magius on Thu May 06, 2004 6:38 am

by posting the exact same answer at the exact same minute that i posted has erased all trace of anything remotely funny from either post so i thus retract my answer and issue utmost apoligies to oliver miller's family.
User avatar
magius
 
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:37 pm

Postby Jackal on Thu May 06, 2004 10:39 am

:lol: He doesnt demand all that attention. When opposing team players' see Miller walk onto the court they sigh in relief.
User avatar
Jackal
 
Posts: 14877
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:59 am

Postby Boyk on Thu May 06, 2004 11:40 pm

Psycho Jackal wrote:That's why I give up...

His presence alone makes him more valuable.

Seriously, you see any other team with 150 KG of that lump?


Ok i agree.
i saw the shaq of old today(even though the lakers lost, DAMN IT!)
and i agree with you, someone like that cant be replaced and im done.

i guess seeing kobes numbers and mvp votes higher for last 2 years got to me, and had convinced me he was more valubale(im not being sarcastic by the way).

but i admit i was wrong and im out.
Image
Thanks to TEH G.O.A.T for Sig
Formerly known as Laddas
Watch out for Kobe,Melo n the Lakers!
User avatar
Boyk
 
Posts: 1697
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 1:51 am
Location: Kalgoorlie, Western Australia

Postby Jackal on Fri May 07, 2004 12:17 am

I'm glad we could come to an agreement.

It's just his size makes him valuable.

Tough loss. :cry:
User avatar
Jackal
 
Posts: 14877
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:59 am

Postby guillus2670 on Fri May 07, 2004 12:26 am

Well i dont agree here. If Shaq is more val...just kidin' :lol:
guillus2670
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:36 am
Location: france

Postby Steve04 on Fri May 07, 2004 5:44 am

Oops, here we go again. :wink:

To whoever said Kobe would not be in the top 20 players in the league, may respectfully disagree. If you're not going to put Kobe in your top 20 players in the NBA, then I better not see T-Mac, Vince Carter, or any of those other small forwards in your top 20 either if they haven't won a championship.

Now if we want to rate players on talent, anybody biased or unbiased(There's really no such thing as unbiased, but I'll get to that later) will have to admit he is arguably the best 2 Guard in the league. But he doesn't win when Shaq is injured you say, He had his chance numorous times and the Lakers didn't play as well! Ah, well let me enlighten you. The reason the Lakers go as Shaq go is because the Lakers team is built around Shaq. If you look closely at the roster, or even if you're just a spectator at a distance you just might observe that the Lakers roster is composed of jump shooters and players who compliment Shaq's skills.

Now what happens when Shaq gets injured and Kobe is left with those players is the Lakers flounder. Why you ask? Simply put, it is because the players on the Lakers team do not compliment Kobe's style of play. The Lakers are old. The Lakers lack athleticism. The Lakers lack youth. The Bulls surrounded Michael Jordan with athletic players. Contrary to popular belief, Kobe Bryant can succeed in the triangle, but in order to do so he must have players aroudn him that compliment his style of play. The Lakers team as it is built now is too old and not athletically gifted enough for them to win when Kobe sometimes takes the game into his hands and tries to force the issue. Who can blame Kobe for being frustrated when after last nights game he played within the offense, they got the ball the Shaq, Shaq dominated. But guess what? Derek Fisher took boneheaded jump shot after boneheaded jumpshot when there was no need for him to. Gary Payton looked old out there, let me rephrase that, he is old. For his game to excel he needs the ball in his hands. This is why he has not been effective. His and Kobe's style of play conflict with each other. One of them will not be back next year.

At the moment, this is Shaq's team. This team was built for Shaq to be the #1 option and to kick it out and then for Kobe to compliment Shaq by opening things up and giving the Lakers a little more versatility. Shaq could not have won those 3 championships without Kobe to take the pressure off his shoulders. but Kobe would not have won any championships with the current Laker cast. In order for this to be Kobe's team, I honestly think Shaq would either have to leave or the supporting cast would have to be changed. Malone can fit here, but realisticly, he is old. How many years does he have left? Payton just is not a good fit for the Lakers peroid. Kobe or no Kobe, if Kobe weren't here he would be doing the same thing you all get on Kobe for doing, disrupting the offense.
Kobe needs athletic players who can shoot the ball in order for him to take any team any place. He can succeed in the triangle, but he needs complimentary players, just like Shaq has teammates around him now that compliment him more than they compliment Kobe.

As for unbiased writers. Please. Spare me. Just spare me. When you find an unbiased writer with no hidden agenda I will buy you a beer. I'm betting my money is safe in my pocket. Bias people and opposing opinions are what make this world interesting and keeps it going round.
Steve04
 
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2003 9:59 am

Postby magius on Fri May 07, 2004 8:27 am

like i said im not going to bother anymore because everbody knows and respects and even to a point understands everyone else's opinion on this matter. but i am the one who wouldnt put kobe in my top 20, and neither tmac nor vince are on my top 20, they would both probably be behind kobe due to lack of championships. of present players only td, garnett, and shaq deserve to be in the top 20 ever.
User avatar
magius
 
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:37 pm

PreviousNext

Return to NBA & Basketball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests