Shaq...

[Fresh8]

named Western Conference playa of da week....he had an awesome especiallly 31-26 plus 7 blocks in a game...think it was Bucks???

[Matthew]

Yep, shaq is still a beast. He hasnt been the best in the nba for a while now, but he is still top 5. Great team leader, and totally dominant. I'd choose him over that other laker "superstar" in a heartbeat

[Nel]

I'd choose him over that other laker "superstar" in a heartbeat

Me too...

[Jackal]

Same here...

Agreed, not the best, but still top 5.

[VCFAN]

I love Shaq as a player and think he is awesome. I think he should take more shots on the lakers. He is the most dominant player and has the highest field goal percentage on the team so I don't see why he doesn't.

[Jackal]

Probably because he doesnt get to touch the ball every time.

Hey, if you got another player on the team who prefers to have the ball in his hands...you can't expect Shaq to get touches everytime, now can you?

Gary Payton, who complained about his role recently, had this to say after [insert name here] took over in the fourth quarter of a win against Orlando. Took over might be a nice way to say [insert name here] monopolized the ball.

"That's just him," Payton said of [insert name here]. "This was his team. In Seattle, if he would have come to my team, I probably would have been dominating the ball, too. So, it's a thing like that. You've got to adjust to it. He's more comfortable when he has the ball and makes plays. I'm more comfortable when I have the ball and make plays. But I'm here and I have to adjust to that."

Perhaps this fragment gives you an idea of what I'm trying to say. I just posted this before any of his fans would start hounding me and calling me names, hey...his own team mate is saying he does it...don't come justifying it.

Now, alot of you will come telling me..."hey Payton doesnt have a problem, he even said he's adjusting to it." Ehm, havent you guys noticed that Payton/Malone & Shaq are the only ones that HAVE actually adjusted their games?

[GloveGuy]

Now, alot of you will come telling me..."hey Payton doesnt have a problem, he even said he's adjusting to it." Ehm, havent you guys noticed that Payton/Malone & Shaq are the only ones that HAVE actually adjusted their games?

I too have noticed that. Ever since the all-star break, Kobe's been playing like last year. The latest SI had an article about this, except they were praising him for it.

I don't give a damn if Kobe's been racking up the assists, because they way I see it, those assists should be Payton's. Payton should starting the plays here. Not only would it benefit him, but it would benefit Kobe and make his job much easier. Kobe's doing a little bit too much and seems to be acting like the Jordan of the 80s. We all know Kobe can average 30, 8, and 8 like MJ did, but his team will never play to their fullest when he does.

The Lakers might be winning now, but they've been doing it in ugly fashion. They went to OT with the Magic and the Bucks, which is pretty sad. When was the last time they actually had a blowout? I say that we go back to the way it was in the beginning, now that Malone is around, and make EVERYONE adjust. That's when they were at their best, and that's when they were THE best.

Sorry to get off topic...

[VCFAN]

I completely agree with you gloveguy. The lakers were winning big time at the beginning of the year when everyone knew their role. Kobe has slowely changed back to his former self and is launching up many shots now.

What I meant about my statement earlier when I said Shaq should shoot more is that he should be atleast taking more shots than Kobe.

[Matt]

i don't think it matters who shoots the ball as long as it's w/in the context of the game. That way there is more chance of having higher % shots

[fgrep15]

I completely agree with you gloveguy. The lakers were winning big time at the beginning of the year when everyone knew their role. Kobe has slowely changed back to his former self and is launching up many shots now.

What I meant about my statement earlier when I said Shaq should shoot more is that he should be atleast taking more shots than Kobe.

Well considering that Shaq gets fouled a lot when he attempts FG's, he takes more shots than people would think, but the last time he was averaging more FG attempts than Kobe was back in 1999.

[Fresh8]

As long as the Lakers settle their problems and focus on that ring!

[.]

As for Shaqs high FG percentage, its not like he creates all of the shots himself, if it wasnt for that other Lakers superstar who draws alot of attention while going to the hole and dishes it of to Shaq, then I doubt he would be shooting over 45%, because he forces alot of tough shots everytime, but I dont blame him.....Because alot of times when he wants to go more inside, his defenders will go after those offensive fouls

[Matthew]

Yeah kobe does draw alot of attention.. the media has had a field day on him since, well those allegations. oh wait you mean on the court!. Shaq draws the bulk of the opponents defensive, he gets instanly doubled and each game i see, the zone really slows his game down and opens up his teammates becuase virtually every player on defense has an eye on him, even when he doesnt have the ball! kobe may average like 2 assists to shaq, if that. Just imagine what a less selfish player (like Gary Payton!! ) would be able to do! Teams would crumble trying to stop that, becuase shaq is the greatest centre of all time (and no, im not joking. he has surpassed hakeem in my books..)

[Jackal]

I'm glad someone has noticed the adjusting part, besides me.

I completely agree Gloveguy, at the beginning of the season, why was it going good? Because Kobe Bryant wasn't trying to take over games. In most of the games at the beginning of the season, he didnt have 30 something points, it was a more balanced attack...whereas these days its: Kobe: 30 something points, Shaq: high teens or low twenties, Malone & Payton low teens. At the beginning of the season, it was more balanced. Anyone care to give me an explanation for this? Because Kobe's back in his old form, he should shoot more? That doesnt make sense in my books so I'll just tick that off of the list of explanations. Next...maybe he's scoring more, because the other guys are too old and cant close out games. Pff...Shaq cant even shoot freethrows, so yeah let Kobe do it all. That's nice and all, but I still think the 3 other stars have enough juice left to close out the game, maybe not by themselves...together they can do anything and everything, so I see no reason why Kobe thinks he should take over the ballgame.

***EDIT. Made a mistake and mixed up two quotes.***

"Well, we won, that's all I can say about the game," Lakers coach Phil Jackson said. "We didn't look very fluid. I felt like they were not energized."

<< This is the quote I was talking about, but I thought he meant Kobe. Anyways, my apologies.

As for the high FG percentage talk, it's obvious the other Lakers superstar will draw attention...the person with the ball in his hands tends to draw attention. Maybe if Payton was allowed to handle the ball instead of Bryant, Bryant wouldn't need to draw as much attention and could make basket cuts, get the pass and score easily instead of trying to create for the whole team. This isn't last year, we dont need him driving into the lane, sucking in the defense and then passing the ball, thats why Payton was brought in. You dont/didnt expect Payton to be a better version of Fisher now did you? Come on, the man has skills...utilise them.

Shaq does force alot of shots these days...but I would try and force as many shots as possible too, if I knew my team-mate would look for himself first then think about giving me the ball.

shaq is the greatest centre of all time (and no, im not joking. he has surpassed hakeem in my books..)

Wow...

[.]

Anyone care to give me an explanation for this?

Kobe scores most of his points when the Lakers lose or win by a few points in the fourth quarter, after the 3th quarter, most of the times the score is pretty even.....Shaq has around 20, Kobe aswell...Payton 15 or something and Malone 10 (15 when he was healthy).

Now as you said in your post "the man has skills...utilise them", Kobe has the abbility to deliver in the 4th quarter, hes without a doubt the best player in the league to deliver in those important moments, now lets be real....do you rather want Shaq/Malone/Payton to deliver, or Kobe who has proven to be the best player in the whole league at that? My answer is pretty clear, and thats probably why Phil lets him do his thing in the 4th quarter.
Thats why Kobe ends up being in the 30+ rankings because he simply takes/makes more shots in the fourth quarter then those other players.

The reason why the Lakers were winning in the begin of the season has nothing to do with Kobe Imo, nearly every player was having a great all-around game, and hey were giving 100% in the whole game, and there was no need for Kobe to make those clutch shots in the 4th quarter.
I dont know what has got into them lately, because they are playing very lazy in the rebounding (yes I know Shaq had 25+ boards 1 game) and in the defense. Just watch the magic game, the Bulls game etc....terrible inside defense, and got outplayed in the first few quarters in the rebounding. If they dont get their focus back in the play-offs, then I dont see them winning that title as much as I want them.

Orlando game, Jackson wasnt too happy

Do you have a link where he said he said that? because in the game recap he said

"It wasn't our best ballgame, but it certainly was exciting," Jackson added. "We needed all the energy the crowd could give us and the play that Kobe had in him tonight as a basketball player. He was exceptional in the second half."

The only thing Phil was complaining about Kobe was that he shouldnt give to much effort in the defense because they needed him in the offense

"I felt like we were coasting, not offensively, but defensively. So I took on the chance to take on Tracy. Phil was a little hesitant because he said he needed my offense but I assured him I could do both. It was very fun."

thats why Payton was brought in.

That wasnt the main reason, Fishers man to man defense isnt that great, and he couldnt really handle the point....he is more like a SG in a PG body, they brought in payton because they needed someone who could set up the offense better and play some man 2 man D.

year, we dont need him driving into the lane, sucking in the defense and then passing the ball

Dont take this wrong, but what do you want him for then? To shoot the ball whenever Shaq passes the ball to him when hes double teamed?

[Jackal]

Now as you said in your post "the man has skills...utilise them", Kobe has the abbility to deliver in the 4th quarter, hes without a doubt the best player in the league to deliver in those important moments, now lets be real....do you rather want Shaq/Malone/Payton to deliver, or Kobe who has proven to be the best player in the whole league at that?

If a buzzer beater situation comes up or something like that, yes I want the ball in Kobe's hands, however, I dont want the ball in Kobe's hands for the whole 12 minutes of the fourth quarter. Oh, and what's wrong with Shaq/Malone & Payton delivering in those moments? You say Kobe's proven to be the best in those fourth quarter situations, well upto now I haven't had a chance to see other guys get the ball as often as Kobe touches it in the fourth quarter, so I cannot say that Kobe is the best at closing out the games. As far as I know, Payton & Malone did pretty good jobs at closing out games when they were on their respective teams. Point is, Kobe shouldnt be known as Mr. Fourth Quarter with three other stars around. I would like to see them touch it a bit more in the fourth. The fourth shouldn't be an "on" switch for Kobe going: Hell yeah, now's my time. That's what I dont want.

The reason why the Lakers were winning in the begin of the season has nothing to do with Kobe Imo, nearly every player was having a great all-around game, and hey were giving 100% in the whole game, and there was no need for Kobe to make those clutch shots in the 4th quarter.

I guess we have different opinions then. At the beginning of the season, it was Payton who was creating & not Bryant, that's when they were winning. Not struggling to win. So I think I'm fair to conclude that it is because of Bryant's "I will create for everyone" attitude that the Lakers are not winning games by big margins as they were while Payton was creating for the team. That's the only conclusion I can come to. Give the ball to Payton and the game seems to run much more smoothly, that's why he's the Point Guard...he should set up plays not Bryant. This way everyone's job becomes a lot easier. Bryant isnt the best playmaker on the team, the best playmaker is obviously Payton. If you disagree, I'm sure you can look up Seattle's record. It was Payton who used to create and set up plays in Seattle. Point is: Payton should set up plays, not Bryant. Because Payton isnt creating, the game doesnt go as smoothly which leads to non smooth games where..."Kobe has to shoot clutch shots".

He wouldnt have to shoot clutch shots if Payton was allowed to set up the plays, they wouldnt be in the kind of situation where Bryant is forced to take over the ballgame.

I dont know what has got into them lately, because they are playing very lazy in the rebounding (yes I know Shaq had 25+ boards 1 game) and in the defense. Just watch the magic game, the Bulls game etc....terrible inside defense, and got outplayed in the first few quarters in the rebounding. If they dont get their focus back in the play-offs, then I dont see them winning that title as much as I want them.

It's pretty much known, that when players do not feel involved in what's happening they tend to lose focus. It's very obvious with Shaq, if he's not involved in the offense, he wont be involved in the defense. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but ask yourself WHY dont the players feel involved which leads to them not focusing? Yeps, Bryant tends to take over which leaves the other players standing around waiting for opportunity. I would get bored and uniterested too.

That wasnt the main reason, Fishers man to man defense isnt that great, and he couldnt really handle the point....he is more like a SG in a PG body, they brought in payton because they needed someone who could set up the offense better and play some man 2 man D.

So then why isn't he creating? Why is Bryant trying to create for everyone? You're contradicting yourself now. You say Payton is brought in for his ability to set up plays, yet you dont mind Bryant doing Paytons job for him?

Dont take this wrong, but what do you want him for then? To shoot the ball whenever Shaq passes the ball to him when hes double teamed?

Don't worry, I dont get offended very easily.

I want him to try and adjust his game. He doesnt have to stand around waiting to get the ball. But this is what the other players are doing. They are standing around, waiting to receive the ball...from Bryant because he feels he should create. What I expect from Bryant is to try and play a more team oriented game instead of Bryant trying to create every play. What I expect from Bryant is to let Payton do his job. If Bryant would let Payton do his job, nobody would be standing around waiting for the ball. I expect Bryant to not try and dominate every game. He has other guys around him...make use of them.

The whole point I'm trying to make is: Kobe, stop trying to create as much as you're trying to. The Lakers brought in Payton because Fisher was incapable of creating plays. That's why I brought up last year. Because Fisher couldnt create, no one really minded Bryant creating, but this year, when you have a better creator at your disposal, don't try to create yourself. Let Payton do that.

That and that only ladies and gentlemen is why Payton was brought to the Lakers. They needed a player who could create and play defense. Kobe4MVP said it himself.

If you all disagree, let me know.

Thank you for your patience.

[.]

As far as I know, Payton & Malone did pretty good jobs at closing out games when they were on their respective teams

They were able to do that yes, but still...Kobe is the better player at closing out games, we are not talking about who gets to much touches on the ball or not in the final quarter, I rather see Kobe getting the ball then Malone, Shaq or GP if we were going after that W, because most times when he creates (Im not saying all the time), something good comes out of it, maybe Malone and Payton were good at that back then, but we are in the 2003/04 season now, Kobe has saved the Lakers from losing a few times and I still havnt seen Malone and GP do it. So I say let him to what hes good at.

At the beginning of the season, it was Payton who was creating & not Bryant, that's when they were winning. Not struggling to win. So I think I'm fair to conclude that it is because of Bryant's "I will create for everyone" attitude that the Lakers are not winning games by big margins as they were while Payton was creating for the team.

This reminds me, GP was creating in the away game against the Hawks, as the Lakers played without Kobe, and yet they lost, against the sorry ass Hawks. This wasnt because Kobe didnt play, it was because they played lazy as hell, and they let the Hawks create way to much in the offense. Also, no one was willing to turn the game around in the 4th quarter, unlike what Kobe would have done. I mean, afterall they still had Shaq and GP, which should be enough to me to beat a team like that

Bryant isnt the best playmaker on the team, the best playmaker is obviously Payton. If you disagree, I'm sure you can look up Seattle's record.

But in Seattle, he was their main scoring option, + the playmaker, that explains their record...he was doing most things by himself. But Bryant isnt playing like a play-maker in LA, the job of a play maker is to find the rest in the offense and create something here to find your main players, and thats what Kobe is doing, he gets the ball and goes to the rim like a scoring player should do, I dont see anything wrong with that.

It's pretty much known, that when players do not feel involved in what's happening they tend to lose focus. It's very obvious with Shaq, if he's not involved in the offense, he wont be involved in the defense. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but ask yourself WHY dont the players feel involved which leads to them not focusing? Yeps, Bryant tends to take over which leaves the other players standing around waiting for opportunity. I would get bored and uniterested too.

Now you are talking like Kobe is the only one who gets the ball and is shooting it, which is not true. He involves other players in the game, besides the 4th quarter, where the Lakers need him to create his shot in the offense when its a close game. I have said this before, but I have seen like 30+ Laker games this season, and I didnt get the feeling that Bryant is playing selfish and not involving his teammates. In tons of situations I was thinking "SHOOT IT....YOURE WIDE OPEN" but instead he passes it off to his teammates, ofcourse there are times when he is playing selfish....but Shaq and GP have that aswell. But anyway, what Laker is complaining about Kobes shot selection besides Shaq in the preseason? can you post some quotes because I really cant remember anyone mentioning that.

So then why isn't he creating? Why is Bryant trying to create for everyone? You're contradicting yourself now.

I said they signed him to set up the offense, not to create....thats why they have Shaq and Kobe. Also, when you play the triangle, everyone sets up plays for everyone, the Point Guard just starts the whole triangle offense. Thats why you see Kobe setting up plays for other players, even Shaq sets up plays.

They needed a player who could create and play defense. Kobe4MVP said it himself

Thats half right, I said a player who could set up the offense, not create a play.

[Jackal]

They were able to do that yes, but still...Kobe is the better player at closing out games, we are not talking about who gets to much touches on the ball or not in the final quarter, I rather see Kobe getting the ball then Malone, Shaq or GP if we were going after that W, because most times when he creates (Im not saying all the time), something good comes out of it, maybe Malone and Payton were good at that back then, but we are in the 2003/04 season now, Kobe has saved the Lakers from losing a few times and I still havnt seen Malone and GP do it. So I say let him to what hes good at.

Lol, I'm sorry, but are you implying that Shaq/Malone & GP cannot close out games, because we are in the 2003/2004 season?

Kobe saved the Lakers from losing...again, I'll repeat myself by saying if Payton was creating (shot's) for the team, they wouldnt be in a situation where they need Kobe to save them. The reason you havent seen Malone & GP do it is because they arent given the opportunity because once it's the fourth quarter, voilá Kobe starts scoring points. It's not a bad thing, but if he were to keep it balanced meaning, involve the other players a little more in the fourth quarter, the defense would ease off him a bit. Hence making it easier only for himself.

This reminds me, GP was creating in the away game against the Hawks, as the Lakers played without Kobe, and yet they lost, against the sorry ass Hawks. This wasnt because Kobe didnt play, it was because they played lazy as hell, and they let the Hawks create way to much in the offense. Also, no one was willing to turn the game around in the 4th quarter, unlike what Kobe would have done. I mean, afterall they still had Shaq and GP, which should be enough to me to beat a team like that

The way you put it is as if the Lakers team is invincible, if that is what you think...good riddance.
Even the great Kobe falters my dutch friend. It just happens much more often when Kobe tries to be the playmaker. Imho.

But in Seattle, he was their main scoring option, + the playmaker, that explains their record...he was doing most things by himself. But Bryant isnt playing like a play-maker in LA, the job of a play maker is to find the rest in the offense and create something here to find your main players, and thats what Kobe is doing, he gets the ball and goes to the rim like a scoring player should do, I dont see anything wrong with that.

It was an example to show to some of you that Payton is a better creater than Bryant. No, there is nothing wrong with Kobe getting the ball and going to the rim, that's exactly what I want. But, I do want the others to touch the ball a bit more...If it were upto Kobe, he would be going to the rim the whole night without passing it to anyone.

Btw, your sentance is a bit confusing.

But Bryant isnt playing like a play-maker in LA, the job of a play maker is to find the rest in the offense and create something here to find your main players, and thats what Kobe is doing

Is he or isnt he playing like a playmaker?

But anyway, what Laker is complaining about Kobes shot selection besides Shaq in the preseason? can you post some quotes because I really cant remember anyone mentioning that.

Gary Payton, who complained about his role recently, had this to say after [insert name here] took over in the fourth quarter of a win against Orlando. Took over might be a nice way to say [insert name here] monopolized the ball.

"That's just him," Payton said of [insert name here]. "This was his team. In Seattle, if he would have come to my team, I probably would have been dominating the ball, too. So, it's a thing like that. You've got to adjust to it. He's more comfortable when he has the ball and makes plays. I'm more comfortable when I have the ball and make plays. But I'm here and I have to adjust to that."

There is another Laker indirectly complaining.
Like Payton said, it's supposedly Kobe's team, so thats why Payton doesnt say alot.

Hope that quote refreshes your memory.

I said they signed him to set up the offense, not to create....thats why they have Shaq and Kobe. Also, when you play the triangle, everyone sets up plays for everyone, the Point Guard just starts the whole triangle offense. Thats why you see Kobe setting up plays for other players, even Shaq sets up plays.

Setting up the offense and creating, it's practically the same thing. No one really creates they are all plays that are set up, am I correct or am I correct?

Let's put it in simpler terms. Bryant tries to set up plays. That's Paytons job. Let the man do his job.

He's more comfortable when he has the ball and makes plays. I'm more comfortable when I have the ball and make plays."

"But I'm here and I have to adjust to that."

Again, why should he be the only one adjusting? Is it your biasedness towards Bryant that doesnt make you realise that Payton is not happy with his role on the team? How many more excuses can you come up with explaining to me how Bryant is and why he does what he does. Payton is indirectly saying he's unhappy, as a Laker fan, shouldnt you have the capability to realise that? Pff, as any person that watches the NBA shouldnt you realise that he's unhappy? Why else would he make those comments? For fun? Ok, Shaq whines about Kobe's shot selection...fine. He's a moron according to most people. But Gary Payton? Come on, 2 Superstars saying Kobe tends to monopolise the ball means something.

Why are you trying to convince me that what Kobe does is in the best interest of the team? His own team-mates don't think that what he's doing is in the best interest of the team, how in heavens name do you expect me to take your word over Shaquille O'Neal & Gary Payton's?

I'm astonshed as to what lenghts posters are willing to go to protect their idols. You should be able to critisize your favorite players, if you cannot, you're blinded by love for that player, which isn't normal anymore.

Come on man, Payton says it in that fragment I just quoted, Shaq has said it numerous times. How come everyone else can see that Kobe monopolises the ball, but you turn the whole thing around and make it look as if what Kobe's doing, is in the best interest of the team.

I think I'm finished in here. Gary Payton & Shaquille O'Neal have said Kobe Bryant monopolises the ball, many users on this message board realise that Kobe Bryant monopolises the ball, millions of NBA fans across the world realise Kobe Bryant monopolises the ball, yet you...*sigh*

[EGarrett]

The word "Shaq" and "Shaquille" total 31 appearances in this thread.

The word "Kobe" totals 62.

This is getting to be a problem...

I have to ask that we try to stay on topic.

[Jackal]

Come on EG, it's a decent discussion, a bit offtopic, but still generally falling under Shaq...

Some leniancy please.

No, I'm not questioning your moderation.

[EGarrett]

The problem is that the next step is always flaming.

If threads are constantly pulled to Kobe and discussion of Kobe constantly leads to flames...then it becomes a problem...

[Jackal]

Yeah, I see where you're coming from.

I think all of us are mature enough to express our opinions about Kobe without getting offended and/or starting to flame eachother. Well I speak for myself & Kobe4MVP...I can't speak for the rest.

[.]

Im positive this wouldnt end up in a flamewar, we are just posting our opinions about this point.

But if you want then I I can stop on this, even though I think it falls under the Lakers category.

but I do want to reply on this

many users on this message board realise that Kobe Bryant monopolises the ball, millions of NBA fans across the world realise Kobe Bryant monopolises the ball, yet you...*sigh*

I really really dont care if users on a Computer game forum think Im a moron or not , I dont know about you but I have my own opinion about things, and I dont change it because others think Im wrong. I can link you to real Lakers message boards where most people agree with me now you say that millions of NBA fans think Im wrong, maybe also millions of NBA fans think Im right...ever tought of that?

*sigh*

[magius]

the inability to have a flexible opinion is not a strength..... in my opinion

anyway, i agree with psycho jackal on this topic. seems to me like kobe's just stat hunting now. i would rather have shaq scoring than kobe just because all the proof leads to shaq as the more intelligent alternative-- shaq is high 50% accuracy to kobe's at best mid 40s, when shaq turns on the defense, defensively he is much more of a factor then kobe, but, like psycho said, shaq only plays great defense when he's playing playing good offense (call it adrenaline rush if you will)-- so, logically you should give shaq the ball on offense more often than you give it to kobe because shaq has a higher percentage of scoring, and when he is scoring, his energy is higher defensively. basically, shaq can score as much as any laker, and when he does he becomes more of a defensive factor than any laker.

now about payton, i dont think payton expects to score 20 per or even controlling the ball more often, what i think he expects is more distribution. i think if payton is a little upset it is because kobe is controlling and dribbling too much. you have to understand that a higher percentage of points are scored not by individual performance, but by rotating the ball around and finding easy open spots -- kobe is taking more difficult shots than he should be given the talent on the laker roster..... why take the difficult shot, no matter how spectatular, when easier shots are available?

now back on topic, la should play through shaq and stop multi-tasking between shaq and kobe. i see no reason why shaq shouldnt be touching the ball every time down the court -- im not saying he should shoot all the time, but that he should touch it, get automatically doubled, dish out, rotate to open man.

its not a fluke that the lakers didnt win last year, and i dont think its a coincidence that it [last year], kobe's best year individually, was the lakers weakest throughout their 'dyansty'.

kobe can up great numbers, but when he does his team isnt as good. when shaq is given the oppurtunity to play the way he can, he makes any team a contender.

[Jackal]

when shaq is given the oppurtunity to play the way he can, he makes any team a contender.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Shaq can make a contender out of any team, Kobe on the other hand, just does not have the power to do so.

to you Magius.