AI SUCKS TO ME

by **Jay-Will** on Sat Jan 10, 2004 2:41 am

I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YALL THINK :?:

BE TRUTHFUL :twisted:

by **fgrep15** on Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:28 am

Im not a big AI fan, but I don't think he sucks. How about you post some reasons for you rationale about AI sucking, rather than just saying he sucks, maybe write some things to convince people he sucks.

Okayy, Iverson is a skilled player with a horrible work ethic and not too good decision making on the floor. Im 5'11 and I weigh 170 lbs, Ivy weighs 165. You'd think after 7 years in the league a player would have at least bulked up just a little, or worked on his shooting. But nope not Ivy, then in the light of that you realize that if he can do all this with that horrible work ethic, imagine how good he could be if he wasn't so lazy and hard-headed with a huge ego.

by **Filip** on Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:22 am

AI dosen't suck, he is on of the best scorers in the leagues! (Y)

He sacrifies his body more than anyone else the the leagues! (Y)

He takes his 76ers to the playoffs! (Y)

He not only a great scores but also one of the leagues best stealers! (Y)

I can only find one thing that talks against AI, and that is (Which many other player have problems with) to showe up to everygame, he has just played played over 80games 2 times in his 7 years long career (N)

by **EGarrett** on Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:29 am

Well fgrep saved this thread because it is spam. If you're going to say something...back it up...otherwise you're polluting the board.

I agree that it would be scary to see how good Iverson could become if he would get in the weight room. Baron Davis upgraded from an All-Star to an MVP-candidate after spending the summer working out. Who knows how good Iverson could be.

by **Matthew** on Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:41 am

I obviously voted for "doesnt suck"
EG, if iverson bulks up, that might limit his effectivness running off screens.. but i do agree.. if he bulked up it would cut down on injuries.. but i dont think ai will ever hit the weight room in the off season.

by **Robby** on Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:44 am

I'm not a big Iverson fan because frankly I believe that he's very much overrated. Yeah, he scores a lot of points but has anyone checked out his shot attempts and field goal percentage.

As for him playing with injuries, it's nothing special because he's not the only one who has done it. Guys like Isiah Thomas, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, John Stockton, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, and Scottie Pippen played with severe injuries many times in their careers. Isiah even came back to play after getting 40+ stiches to his face after getting elbowed by Malone. And here's Iverson putting on all sorts of bands and sleeves to show his toughness and how he plays through injury. And I don't even want to talk about his practice habits. Quite frankly, I believe that Allen Iverson represents everything that is wrong with the NBA today.

by **air gordon** on Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:51 am

i disagree to the thinking of hitting the weights will hinder a nba player's game. especially since these guys have nutritionists and personal trainers. tmac, garnett, karl malone, are just some of the countless examples of players bulking up. in fact these players games have gotten better due to their dedication and work in the offseason/season

by **fgrep15** on Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:59 am

crawford4MIP4real wrote:i disagree to the thinking of hitting the weights will hinder a nba player's game. especially since these guys have nutritionists and personal trainers. tmac, garnett, karl malone, are just some of the countless examples of players bulking up. in fact these players games have gotten better due to their dedication and work in the offseason/season

Yes, people say he won't be as quick etc, but thats what trainers are for. You gain weight while still maintaining your speed and quickness. You can also acheive this by working out without using weights, Bowflex or something.

by **Matthew** on Sat Jan 10, 2004 7:27 am

I never said he wouldnt be as quick, i just said if he gets bigger he may not be able to use screens as well..

by **sliccat** on Sat Jan 10, 2004 7:31 am

fgrep15 wrote:Yes, people say he won't be as quick etc, but thats what trainers are for. You gain weight while still maintaining your speed and quickness. You can also acheive this by working out without using weights, Bowflex or something.

OK, time for me to straighten all of you out, because everyone of you is half right.

Fact: Getting heavyier slows you down. if you don't think so, read my sig.

Myth: You have to get bigger and heavyier to get stronger. Look at AI sometime, and you'll notice how ripped he is. MJ was stronger than players 15-30 pounds heavyier than he is, and so was Scottie back in the day. Why? they knew how to get stronger without getting bigger. Of course, getting bigger stabilises you and helps avoid injuries, but it also cuts down your quickness a lot. MJ DID gain a lot of weight for these reasons, and it really cut down his quickness, especially as he got older, but, as I said, after a point he stopped getting heavier and kept getting stronger.

Fact: AI takes(and misses) a lot of shots.

Myth: AI makes stupid floor desisions, is a bad shooter, and takes bad shots. One at a time:
1. Most people don't watch basketball or play it enough to judge this anyways. I've played on a lot of teams, and am astonished by how much even the players miss. But if you truly watch the game of basketball you will be astonished by how methodical Iverson's seemingly rushed and (for lack of a better word) stupid, game is. Every action and reaction Iverson makes on the court is extremely well thought out. Every other time some one touches him, he draws a foul, playing to the refs perfectly. He doesn't get many assists only because no one on his team can shoot. Yes, he has turnover problems, only because he is relied upon to create shots so much that three times a game he makes a mistake. And you probably haven't noticed, but he almost never makes a turnover in the last quarter. And last, his Defensive awarness has gotten much better. He no longer lunges to get steals out of his range and gets beat by his man. Now he's much more conservative and still gets the same amount of steals.

2.Look at his form sometime. His feet are set perfectly, his elbow's tucked in, and his wrist work is perfect, he could teach a clinic. He misses shots because he's being smothered by people 6 inches taller than he is.

3. Have you ever noticed that most of his missed shots come when the shot clock is down to 3 and one of his teamates dumps the ball to him? It's just those phases he goes the once every ten games when he's in a cold spurt(for some reason, it's always one game of every playoffs).

Fact: AI has bad practice habits.

Myth: AI has a bad work ethic, especially during the summer. Sheesh. According to you people he sits around for the whole summer eating junk food, and then comes to training camp as fit and fast as ever. I'm one of the fastest people I know, and I'm knowhere close to him. He's 28 and eats junk food. That alone tells you that he has to work hard to keep in shape. Besides, he did hit the weights over the summer, and was more like 175 instead of 165. I'm 6'0 and lift weights everyday, and I can't get up to 145, so he has to be working hard. Granted, part of it is because I'm a teenager, but that's not the point.

ANd to Slam harder:

I can only find one thing that talks against AI, and that is (Which many other player have problems with) to showe up to everygame, he has just played played over 80games 2 times in his 7 years long career"

Yes we all know that Allen Iverson has no tollerance for pain. Beyond that he never gets hurt! I've never once seen him get knocked to the ground only to get back up again. Read my sig you moron.

by **fgrep15** on Sat Jan 10, 2004 8:24 am

sliccat wrote:Fact: Getting heavyier slows you down. if you don't think so, read my sig.

That is definately not a fact, I was 150 on summer and went up to 160 by winter and I still had the best laterall quickness and was the fastest person on my team.

silccat wrote:Myth: You have to get bigger and heavyier to get stronger. Look at AI sometime, and you'll notice how ripped he is. MJ was stronger than players 15-30 pounds heavyier than he is, and so was Scottie back in the day. Why? they knew how to get stronger without getting bigger. Of course, getting bigger stabilises you and helps avoid injuries, but it also cuts down your quickness a lot. MJ DID gain a lot of weight for these reasons, and it really cut down his quickness, especially as he got older, but, as I said, after a point he stopped getting heavier and kept getting stronger.

KG proves that you don't need to be huge to be strong, but there's a limit, don't try and tell me AI is a very strong guy. Gaining muscle DOES not cut down on quickness if you do it right, no one is saying iverson should try to be 210 or something, but at least 180 maybe, if you gain 10 lbs of muscle you're not gonna be slower. AI is not ripped, he's just skinny, what are you going to say he has 1% body fat now.

sliccat wrote:Look at his form sometime. His feet are set perfectly, his elbow's tucked in, and his wrist work is perfect, he could teach a clinic. He misses shots because he's being smothered by people 6 inches taller than he is.

AI does not have perfect form on his jumper. lets not get carried away.

Subtract Iverson's layups, and his shooting accuracy dwindles to close to 30 percent

Teams also don't always have their shooting guard on him b/c he can easily take them off the dribble, David Wesley is managing to shoot over people, Earl Boykins??, no excuse.

sliccat wrote:Myth: AI has a bad work ethic, especially during the summer. Sheesh. According to you people he sits around for the whole summer eating junk food, and then comes to training camp as fit and fast as ever. I'm one of the fastest people I know, and I'm knowhere close to him. He's 28 and eats junk food. That alone tells you that he has to work hard to keep in shape. Besides, he did hit the weights over the summer, and was more like 175 instead of 165. I'm 6'0 and lift weights everyday, and I can't get up to 145, so he has to be working hard. Granted, part of it is because I'm a teenager, but that's not the point.

Jumaine Jones wrote:"I see him working every summertime," Jones said of Iverson, whose work ethic has been criticized over the years. "I see a lot of guys who don’t touch a basketball, but they’re not on his level. But if he comes in and misses a few shots in a game, then it‘He didn’t work.’ I think what he needs to do is not even worry about what the critics say because people don’t know what he’s out doing every summer."

Of course he works in the summer, but not as much as he should and he should try getting more help in his workouts not thinking he can do it himself. Working in practice should also not be overlooked, it is very important.

Well I gained 10 pounds of muscle by eating protein (not supplements) and running so you don't need to lift weights to gain muscle. You also say your are a teen and start talking to us like you are some basketball analyst.

sliccat wrote:Granted, part of it is because I'm a teenager, but that's not the point.

Yet you have played for a lot of team and try to present yourself as some experienced basketball analyst.

nobody can question Iverson’s competiveness on the basketball court. He plays the game with a warrior’s heart. But practice is a different story.

Ever since Iverson has been in the league, he has skipped plenty of meetings and practices. He never really had an excuse, and didn’t want to make one up. Most the time he didn’t have the common courtesy to call his coach and tell him he wouldn’t be there.

Practice makes perfect. Look at Michael Jordan, the hardest working player to ever put on a pair of basketball sneakers, and also the greatest of all time.

AI doesn't understand how sitting out of practice affects his teamates.

I’m sure everyone remembers what Iverson thought about practice. "Practice? You’re gonna ask me about practice? Practice? Come on now, practice?"

I honestly believe that he does not get it that things would be better if he would just practice. You know, like last year, he would have made Speedy Claxton so much better, because Claxton would have to check Allen Iverson. Allen just doesn't get that. I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's the same reason so many great athletes don't become good coaches, because they can't translate, can't understand that others are unable to do what they do. I mean, I imagine Mike Schmidt would be like, What do you mean you can't level off on that pitch and drive it?!

I don't know if that's what it is, or what, but it's ridiculous that he doesn't practice. It's not that he doesn't practice at all, it's that he's not committed to practice. He'll get there late, when Brown's not looking he'll duck out the side door and eat Taco Bell tacos and then duck back in. It's like a 12-year-old rebellious kid.

Of course, Iverson had no clue. He abused everything Brown had created for him, showing up late to practices, games, buses and weight room sessions. "Allen would hide in the toilet when we'd lift weights," says John Croce, Pat's brother and until recently the team's strength coach. "He'd come in and eat 20, 25 tacos for breakfast -- I mean, he'd be in the locker room with bags of them -- and I don't know if they made him sick, but he'd spend the rest of the morning in the bathroom. There's no way he'd want to lift. He'd be, 'John, I'll be right there,' and then he'd disappear. I called him Casper."

by **EGarrett** on Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:47 am

Gaining weight does not necessarily make you slower. The weight gained when you work out is muscle. Muscle is what drives your legs when you run. To a certain extent muscle lifts more than its own weight..otherwise you wouldn't be able to get out of bed in the morning. If Iverson gained enough weight to reach a peak balance between his mucle and body weight...which he is under right now...it would improve both his strength and speed. For him...this might mean 175 pounds...but he would benefit a lot.

by **wangster** on Sat Jan 10, 2004 10:28 am

There's no question AI has an attitude problem especially when it comes to missing practices and getting into trouble with the law, etc, but no one should be doubting his desire and determination to improve his game.

When he was in high school, he took ballet lessons for several years to refine his balance, movement, and flexibility on the basketball court. He didn't care that ballet was considered "pansy" and he would become a target of humiliation. Nothing would distract him from his quest to become a better player. He was truly focused on becoming the very best basketball player he can possibly be, and he still is focused today. In fact, many of the deadly moves he uses and his agile and elusive style of play today are products of his years of devotion to ballet.

He might have many flaws in his character, but his dedication to the game, his unbreakable passion to win and his ability to take a team on his shoulders make him one of my favorite players. Oh, and obviously he's also a very exciting player to watch.

by **Jay-Will** on Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:28 pm

Some of yall are both right and wrong but the reason i say i dont like him is because of the fact that 76er's fans always say kobe and the lakers suck like silccat but i know him and he goes to school with me but like i said he always say kobe suck so i gotta back up my favorite team and shooting guard so yall know the deal about yall favorite teams and all.

2 because he is overrated he is not the best shooting guard in the nba and thats a fact.

3 cause some people say he is a warrior for still playing with injuries that is just stupid for him to do that cause if he is injured and hurts himself worser then he might be out for most of the season or the whole season.

4 cause he is on the east but i like alot of the east super stars besides AI. the stars i like are vc, t-mac, j. o'neal, ben wallace, kenyon martin, j-kidd, and alot more.

But at one point of the time i liked AI when he was point guard I liked him for three years 96,97,98

These are the four reason i dont like AI

by **Filip** on Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:45 pm

sliccat wrote:Yes we all know that Allen Iverson has no tollerance for pain. Beyond that he never gets hurt! I've never once seen him get knocked to the ground only to get back up again. Read my sig you moron.

But what are you actually saying? That if you ignore the 55 games he has missed in just 7 years he never gets hurt :?:

FACT: AI gets injured to often, maybe he shouldn't sacrifie his body so much so he could help his team more than 60 games a season

EDIT: Confused "Sliccat with Martin" (avatar) :oops:

by **The Big Racist** on Sun Jan 11, 2004 1:14 am

Where did you get that I said that?

by **sliccat** on Sun Jan 11, 2004 1:42 am

You also say your are a teen and start talking to us like you are some basketball analyst.

Yes, me being a teen means I'm stupid and don't know what I'm talking about(that's sarcasm, for the idiot who's agreeing with me). I probably watch more film to improve my game than anyone hear(Do videogames count?)

Teams also don't always have their shooting guard on him b/c he can easily take them off the dribble, David Wesley is managing to shoot over people, Earl Boykins??, no excuse.

When's the last time David Wesley avged 28 a game? When's the last time Earl Boykins started?

what are you going to say he has 1% body fat now.

Which means he's all muscle, comprende?

AI doesn't understand how sitting out of practice affects his teamates.

I’m sure everyone remembers what Iverson thought about practice. "Practice? You’re gonna ask me about practice? Practice? Come on now, practice?"

See: Bill Russell

I honestly believe that he does not get it that things would be better if he would just practice. You know, like last year, he would have made Speedy Claxton so much better, because Claxton would have to check Allen Iverson. Allen just doesn't get that. I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's the same reason so many great athletes don't become good coaches, because they can't translate, can't understand that others are unable to do what they do. I mean, I imagine Mike Schmidt would be like, What do you mean you can't level off on that pitch and drive it?

Damnit, he's not God(or MJ, for that matter), and he makes mistakes. But for what it's worth, I'm glad you actually know what your talking about, unlike some people.

To Carmelo_Anthony_15: shut up. at least fgrep15 actually thought what he said.

To a certain extent muscle lifts more than its own weight..otherwise you wouldn't be able to get out of bed in the morning. If Iverson gained enough weight to reach a peak balance between his mucle and body weight...which he is under right now...it would improve both his strength and speed. For him...this might mean 175 pounds...but he would benefit a lot.

He's closer to one 175 than 165, that's his video game listing, ask Larry Brown. And your about muscle carrying it's own weight, but the difference between 175 and 185=the difference between how fast AI is and how fast Starbury is which= the difference between 28pts and 23pts, which= the difference between a win and a loss for the sixers.

But what are you actually saying? That if you ignore the 55 games he has missed in just 7 years he never gets hurt
FACT: AI gets injured to often, maybe he shouldn't sacrifie his body so much so he could help his team more than 60 games a season

It's called sarcasm, you dope. And taking away the way he sacrifices the body would also take away 10-20ppg off of free throws and crazy layups.

by **fgrep15** on Sun Jan 11, 2004 3:49 am

sliccat wrote:Yes, me being a teen means I'm stupid and don't know what I'm talking about(that's sarcasm, for the idiot who's agreeing with me). I probably watch more film to improve my game than anyone hear(Do videogames count?)

I didn't say you didn't know anything, I just didn't like how you "OK, time for me to straighten all of you out, because everyone of you is half right. "

Seemed kinda arrogant. :shock:

I watched a lotta videos too but mostly, I just play like 8 hours a day in the summer, and like 4 hours a weeks right now. (Don't have time too much work at the U). I've always wanted to get some of those Isiah Thomas videos though. "(Do videogames count?)" Yes Sarcasm, sorry man they don't.

When's the last time David Wesley avged 28 a game? When's the last time Earl Boykins started?

Not the average, the percentage, I think the only reason Boykins won't start in the league is b/c of the deficiency on the defensive end.

what are you going to say he has 1% body fat now
Which means he's all muscle, comprende?

Joke, but if he ate right, he could get there, then he'd be a machine, and even quicker.

See: Bill Russell

Why follow in bad footsteps.

He's closer to one 175 than 165, that's his video game listing, ask Larry Brown. And your about muscle carrying it's own weight, but the difference between 175 and 185=the difference between how fast AI is and how fast Starbury is which= the difference between 28pts and 23pts, which= the difference between a win and a loss for the sixers.

Yea he did gain 17 pounds 2 summers ago (I was proud of him), but I dunno if he kept it up.

FACT: AI gets injured to often, maybe he shouldn't sacrifie his body so much so he could help his team more than 60 games a season

That was not well thought, a player sacrificing their body is what many coaches want. Marion for example doesn't get to the line b/c he'd rather use his atheleticsm to aviod contact than draw fouls. Sacrificing is not a bad thing, Iny just needs to make his body more prepared to handle all the banging.

by **Filip** on Sun Jan 11, 2004 4:04 am

Martin wrote::lol: Where did you get that I said that?

Wups, sorry! Confused you with Sliccat, you had the same avatar as him before, and I confused you two therefor. sorry. :oops:

by **Filip** on Sun Jan 11, 2004 4:34 am

sliccat wrote:It's called sarcasm, you dope. And taking away the way he sacrifices the body would also take away 10-20ppg off of free throws and crazy layups.

So you agree with me that is a weakness he got, his difficulity to play over 80games?
76ers would do better in the season if he didn't kill himself everytime he is going to the hoop
and he just scored, say 23 ppg and also showed up to every game than
scoring 28 points and just showing up to 60 games because of injury.

And by the way: Fuck you, you little youngster prick, you are just makin a fool out of yourself with that shitty attitude

frgrep15 wrote:Sacrificing is not a bad thing, Iny just needs to make his body more prepared to handle all the banging.

I never said that sacrificing is a bad thing, I just saying that he is doing it to much, and that's why he has missed 55 games in his career.

by **Jay-Will** on Sun Jan 11, 2004 2:03 pm

to silccat shut up at least most of these know what they are talking about you uncle fucker :cool:

your opinions dont count at all watch and see what happens at school on tuesday just you watch. :twisted:

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Sun Jan 11, 2004 2:09 pm

I suggest everyone read the Member Rules, and do their best to follow them. There's really no need to get so worked up. Thank you.

by **sliccat** on Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:42 am

So you agree with me that is a weakness he got, his difficulity to play over 80games?
76ers would do better in the season if he didn't kill himself everytime he is going to the hoop
and he just scored, say 23 ppg and also showed up to every game than
scoring 28 points and just showing up to 60 games because of injury.

If it's a weakness, it's one over half the L does. Whens the last time Shaq played over eighty games? And that's only missing two, if you've lost count(I wouldn't be surprised).

And by the way: Fuck you, you little youngster prick, you are just makin a fool out of yourself with that shitty attitude

Youngster prick?? You sound like my great grandmother. You're just making a fool out of yourself using words like that.

And by the way, f*ck you too. :twisted:

didn't say you didn't know anything, I just didn't like how you "OK, time for me to straighten all of you out, because everyone of you is half right. "

Seemed kinda arrogant

That was the point. I like pissing people off. It's what I do best.

by **fgrep15** on Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:58 am

sliccat wrote:
didn't say you didn't know anything, I just didn't like how you "OK, time for me to straighten all of you out, because everyone of you is half right. "

Seemed kinda arrogant

That was the point. I like pissing people off. It's what I do best.

Niiice, is it working though?

by **Wall St. Peon** on Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:05 pm

Like - I think it was EG - said, there's a perfect balance for everyone between too much muscle and not enough. If Iverson weighed between 175-180, I think it would benefit him. I think most of his injuries had to do with his arms, shoulders. If he strengthened his upper body, then those injuries would be few and far between. I'm just under 170 (yeah, I'm sooooo fat :roll:

) myself, and I'm 5'9 - the weight's from lifting weights about 8 hours a week, but I'm still really quick...no where near my high school speed, but that speed was largely because my knees worked...

Anyway, Iverson has a shitty work ethic in regards to keeping his body in shape. While he is in great shape, and he is very quick, if he simply worked out lightly, he would get better. There's plenty of exercises one can do to preserve quickness, or even gain quickness. If Iverson could get quicker - which is possible - he should do it.

As for liking Iverson...I love watching him play. He really isn't that selfish, as he passes a lot, but his teammates can't make open shots...

Sorry to butt into another flame war.... :roll:

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