Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:22 am
me ask you this: If LeBron James was available at #2 or if Detroit would have won the the #1 pick, would Detroit have selected Milicic or LeBron? I thought so. I do not buy the statements regarding this "they didn't need him" (Carmelo Anthony) crap. They could use him right now and for the future, you really are not saying Tayshaun Prince stopped Detroit from selecting Anthony are you? I just don't believe anyone who says that Detroit was so good already that they could pick someone and wait, I really believe they thought he was another Dirk Nowitzki or Pau Gasol, nothing else, only an overused theory about what happened, which holds no value in my opinion
Eddie Griffin should play small forward.
Dwyane Wade is a great player, I have always said this, but including him in a trade that betters a horrible team makes sense to me, dumping either Brian Grant or Eddie Jones' contracts or both, would be worth including Wade for a good package of lesser contracts and equal value players like Okur, Hamilton and Billups. I don't believe Dwyne Wade would hold up this trade, it's the salaries of Jones and Grant.
Would you trade Dwyane Wade for Chauncey Billups?
Sat Dec 20, 2003 4:44 pm
Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:15 pm
Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:03 am
Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:41 am
Laddas_KB8 wrote:better make that 13-14 now for the celtics and 14-12 for the raptors.
look i like pierce, and the celtics have grown on me the last few years, and ricky-d is also there now, a more reason to keep track of them, but pierce wont beat out most of the guys i mentioned.
Baron Davis isnt shooting well, yer thats true, but 2.7TOPG for a guy who has the ball in his hands for most the game is impressive.
23.5ppg 8.4apg 4.5rpg 2.67spg isnt exactly crap!
and his tea mis winning because of him, so i still think hes a much more worthy candidate than PP.
Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:35 am
Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:51 am
Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:05 am
Baron Davis doesn't have as many turnovers as Pierce because he shoots the ball so often, who's got time to turn it over, also they really spread the floor and line-up guys all over the arc which makes for easy passing,
don't push the ball the way the Celtics do and Baron Davis doesn't play for the Boston Celtics, where there is much more pressure on Pierce.
If you belive Baron Davis is doing more than Paul Pierce is, this is your opinion, but the numbers do not back this up
Fine see it however you want to, you don't see Pierce leading his team in everything, carrying them on his back. Vince Carter's team was lottery bound before that trade for Donyell Marshall and Jalen Rose, which makes sense they have made the impact, before that this was the worse offensive team in the NBA (they still have the lowest scoring average, because they were so horrible before the trade) and that is to Vince Carter's discredit, this improvement of the team is not because Vince Carter starting doing something differently.
Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:38 am
DipSetVC wrote:Baron Davis is a PG... need I say more?
Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:10 am
fgrep15 wrote:Baron Davis doesn't have as many turnovers as Pierce because he shoots the ball so often, who's got time to turn it over, also they really spread the floor and line-up guys all over the arc which makes for easy passing,
don't push the ball the way the Celtics do and Baron Davis doesn't play for the Boston Celtics, where there is much more pressure on Pierce.
If you belive Baron Davis is doing more than Paul Pierce is, this is your opinion, but the numbers do not back this up
First the baron is a PGs and is 6'3 so no one expects him to average 7 boards per game, he's getting more dimes more steals and i don't believe you said the Hornets don't push the ball as much, watch some New Orleans games and see the breaks that come from the Baron and Armstrong steals, also the shoot the ball to often and have no time to t.o the ball statement is very vague, the guy is still averaging 8 dimes and 2.6 t.o, pierce is getting 4 t.o....Tmac is the man in Orlando and is getting 2.96. If 43% of The Baron's shots weren't 3's hed be shooting 44% from the field but he's never seen a 3 point shot he didn't like, and yes the Baron is a PG and has the ball in his hands more than PP does.......and if the Baron could shoot at least 80% from the line he'd be averaging 24.2ppgFine see it however you want to, you don't see Pierce leading his team in everything, carrying them on his back. Vince Carter's team was lottery bound before that trade for Donyell Marshall and Jalen Rose, which makes sense they have made the impact, before that this was the worse offensive team in the NBA (they still have the lowest scoring average, because they were so horrible before the trade) and that is to Vince Carter's discredit, this improvement of the team is not because Vince Carter starting doing something differently.
Lottery Bound, i dunno about that, yea they weren't scoring but neither were their opponents, they were still at .500 before the trade,they beat Dallas 77-71, how do you hold Dallas to 71 points. Look at Indiana they were only averaging about 86per game, now 89 and Detroit too, it doesn't matter if you don't score a lot as long as your opponent scores less. VC has won so many games for the team, yea he doesn't go after rebounds as much till crunch time but what you gonna do and PP is beating him in dimes but since the trade VC has been averaging about 6, when you drive and drop off the ball to rock hands AD who misses dunks what can you do. Carter was also too unselfish, he was taking the same amount of shots be4 the trade as he is now. Also look at the Magic, do you think the Raptors team before the trade was better than the Orlando team, i dunno, but the Raps were still winning.
Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:28 am
Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:35 am
Sun Dec 21, 2003 7:09 am
paul_pierce_the_truth wrote:fgrep15 wrote:Baron Davis doesn't have as many turnovers as Pierce because he shoots the ball so often, who's got time to turn it over, also they really spread the floor and line-up guys all over the arc which makes for easy passing,
don't push the ball the way the Celtics do and Baron Davis doesn't play for the Boston Celtics, where there is much more pressure on Pierce.
If you belive Baron Davis is doing more than Paul Pierce is, this is your opinion, but the numbers do not back this up
First the baron is a PGs and is 6'3 so no one expects him to average 7 boards per game, he's getting more dimes more steals and i don't believe you said the Hornets don't push the ball as much, watch some New Orleans games and see the breaks that come from the Baron and Armstrong steals, also the shoot the ball to often and have no time to t.o the ball statement is very vague, the guy is still averaging 8 dimes and 2.6 t.o, pierce is getting 4 t.o....Tmac is the man in Orlando and is getting 2.96. If 43% of The Baron's shots weren't 3's hed be shooting 44% from the field but he's never seen a 3 point shot he didn't like, and yes the Baron is a PG and has the ball in his hands more than PP does.......and if the Baron could shoot at least 80% from the line he'd be averaging 24.2ppgFine see it however you want to, you don't see Pierce leading his team in everything, carrying them on his back. Vince Carter's team was lottery bound before that trade for Donyell Marshall and Jalen Rose, which makes sense they have made the impact, before that this was the worse offensive team in the NBA (they still have the lowest scoring average, because they were so horrible before the trade) and that is to Vince Carter's discredit, this improvement of the team is not because Vince Carter starting doing something differently.
Lottery Bound, i dunno about that, yea they weren't scoring but neither were their opponents, they were still at .500 before the trade,they beat Dallas 77-71, how do you hold Dallas to 71 points. Look at Indiana they were only averaging about 86per game, now 89 and Detroit too, it doesn't matter if you don't score a lot as long as your opponent scores less. VC has won so many games for the team, yea he doesn't go after rebounds as much till crunch time but what you gonna do and PP is beating him in dimes but since the trade VC has been averaging about 6, when you drive and drop off the ball to rock hands AD who misses dunks what can you do. Carter was also too unselfish, he was taking the same amount of shots be4 the trade as he is now. Also look at the Magic, do you think the Raptors team before the trade was better than the Orlando team, i dunno, but the Raps were still winning.
The comparisons to Orlando and your scoring analysis are both ramblings that I have no clue what you are trying to say.
I have League Pass and do watch New Orleans games, Toronto games and Boston games, I know who pushes the ball and I know who makes mistakes often and I also know who is the most clutch of three players.
I have been watching the NBA for 20 years and I have seen almost all the games this and last season to some extent. This year I have seen complete games of New Orleans and have been impressed with them as a unit, but not Baron Davis' jacking the ball up all over the place.
I guess my opinions are either too strong or just not respected, but don't ever accuse me of being unaware, not understanding or misinformed, I advise you nothing could be further from reality. To push my credentials further, I have a BA in Mathematics and have some understanding of analysis statistics.
I know that may seem cocky or it may not matter to anyone, but don't tell me how I may not understand numbers, or how they apply to complete analysis. Yes you have to understand pro basketball as well, something else I am not lacking.
These latest outbursts are an indication of my frustration with the media and it's hype based on nothing, their complete lack of understanding the entire picture and the posters in this forum pulling meaningless statements from no where and applying them as fact.
If a guy misses 6.4 three pointers and 13.5 total shots along with the unforgiving ability to make a free throw added with 2.96 turnovers, he takes less care of the ball at any postion than any other player in the NBA*
Read this: Baron Davis takes care of the ball worse than everyone in the NBA except *Allen Iverson. If you think it's crazy or you love AI and Baron so much you can't see it, fine, but they do not take care of the ball better than Paul Pierce.
If you want to hear about Allen Iverson's miscues, just ask.
Statistics are not the only way of looking at the players, I understand this, but you guys point out Pierce's turnovers and say that's the end of him being an MVP player, but then tout Iverson, who turns the ball over more than Pierce and misses more shots than Pierce by a whole lot.
Vince Carter is an outstanding player, no doubt, but he is not the all-around player and leader Paul Pierce is.
Sun Dec 21, 2003 7:29 am
paul_pierce_the_truth wrote:I know Baron Davis is a point guard and I know he has the ball as much as anyone (except maybe Kidd).
The fact is a Point Guard should not lead the NBA in shot attempts and misses, even if he gets 8+ assists.
He certainly should not miss 6.4 three-pointers.
It's real simple to say Baron is a point guard and Pierce is a shooting guard and Pierce should not have as many turnovers, but again does any bother to consider the pressure on Pierce to score and the complex schemes set-up to defend him with two and three people, something at this point make no sense to do to Baron Davis because teams are happy with him shooting 10 three's per game and plan to let him do so, he would only face a double-team if went to the basket more like Pierce. Pierce is near 6 assists a game himself, not bad considering he's not a point guard, something that I myself do not believe, but uses the same type of misinformed logic I have seen here.
Pierce needs to cut down on his turnovers, I agree, but with Ricky Davis standing there now and Jiri Welsch starting to hit some shots, his being double- teamed from the opening tip will ease off a bit, then you will see a rise in his assists and scoring and lesser turnovers.
Sometimes too much credit for a team's winning and losing is credited to one player, yet the people of this forum still tout T-Mac as a better player than Pierce. Then turnaround and say Baron is better based on New Orleans' record. It's just miles contradiction.
Mon Dec 22, 2003 2:12 am
Mon Dec 22, 2003 1:43 pm
Mon Dec 22, 2003 6:48 pm
Thu Dec 25, 2003 8:28 am
Thu Dec 25, 2003 10:51 pm
Most Improve Player-
Murry- no 1 knew who this guy was, hell I didn't even know him till this year..if Seattle Makes the playoffs, I think no doube he will win it.
McDyess- if healthy and the Knicks turn it around and take over the Atlantic Division, he will get some consideration for this considering he averaged 0.0 points, 0.0 rebounds last year lol
KG, Duncan ( 10 game winning streak!), T-mac ( if magics some how make the playoffs..) are the top 3 MVP candidates in my thoughts.
Fri Dec 26, 2003 12:22 am
Laddas_KB8 wrote:T-Mac is not an mvp
Fri Dec 26, 2003 7:15 am
Fri Dec 26, 2003 11:18 am
Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:25 pm
Tue Dec 30, 2003 7:43 pm
Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:13 pm