Black Magic

[Mazzocchi]

Come in here to talk about the EMBARRISSING season that the Magics are having. I admit i Used to be a Huge Magic fan (and I thought T-Mac was god lol) and after this streak, I'm not really a big fan anny more, (although I STILL think T-Mac is god lol) so come in herr to talk about the streak, or to strike some spirit into other magics fans or other stuff.... Go Magic!

[Damien War]

Don't give up on your boys, Zocchi, because no real fan respects a bandwagoner. For Real. It's mental right now. Once they get a win they'll snap out of it. But if they want to make a run for the playoffs someones going to have to step up big time and it won't be that heartless bastard Juwan Howard. When Pat Garrity returns he's going to give them another outside threat and the defenses will have to loosen the clamps on T-Mac.

[DipSetVC]

People might not respect bandwagon fans, but they also don't respect people who have no idea what their talking about. By the way, Pat Garrity is out for the rest of the season and even in the East, chances are very slim for the Magic to make the playoffs.

[Damien War]

Aren't the Magic in Atlantic Division which best team is at 500? I thought so. Which means they have the possibility of being the number 2 team in the Eastern Conference. But good catch on Pat Garrity. I was slipping, but trust i got more basketball knowledge in my left nut than..... I won't get started.

Let me get that dirt off my shoulder.......

[DipSetVC]

I didn't mean to be mean lol, It just came out wrong...my bad.

Another thing I'm not feeling is next year's Southeast division, possibly the worst division in Pro-Sports. Orlando has a chance to dominate easily.

[Damien War]

Aw man stuff like just makes me want to stay on top of my shit more. It's appreciated.

[paul_pierce_the_truth]

Let me explain what 1-18 is.

First thing you should remember is the obvious, they are horrible, they can't just point at someone in the Orlando locker room and say you are going to help Tracy and turn it around. The same 15 people with the exception of Rod Strickland are the same people that lost these 18 games in a row.

Next is the fact that they most likely are having a difficult time believing they can win, the edge goes to everyone playing them, because no one wants to be the team that losses to them, everyone goes in believing both they can win and that they will not leave as the team that lost to Orlando.

This team is oil and water as far as team chemistry goes, everyone differs in opinion how they can change the current streak, everyone is beginning to believe they are responisble, everyone believes they might be traded or benched and it goes on and on as far as insecurity.

Pat Garrity has never been that big of a player for any team, he did play 17 minutes in a loss to Minnesota, 1-3 FGs with no rebounds and 1 assist.
Last season for Orlando he played 32 minutes per game and averaged 10.7ppg, 3.8 reb and 1.5 ast shot only .419 from the field and was a good three point shooter at .396 and made two of them a game. Somehow I think this excuse is nothing more than a crutch, Pat Garrity is not missed that much, honestly 11 points and 4 boards? Juwon Howard is a new player who they didn't have last season (42-40) and he is getting 14 points and 7 rebounds, so having him and Garrity would help, but the team is not much different than last season. They miss Darrell Armstrong, but did sign Tyronn Lue. Armstrong is a much better player and leader for sure.
I understand about Garrity's shooting and how it helps, but would he really turn them around or would they be a good team if they had him?

Inside the numbers, how can Orlando be a contender?

First thing to remember is they are 1-18 and have not shown they can win any games, this should be considered always.

But let's say for some reason unknown to Johnny Davis and Tracy McGrady they can start winning......

[Lower seeds for the playoffs might be available.]
But the difference between these teams is bigger than you may think.

1-18 Orlando
10-10 Philadelphia

Let's look at 20 games from now:
Say Philly continues at 10-10
Orlando would have to go 19-2 to catch them.

Let's look at 30 games:
Philly goes 15-15 totaling 25-25
Orlando would have to go 24-7.

Let's look at 40 games:
Philly goes 20-20 totaling 30-30
Orlando would have to go 29-12.

Let's look at the remainder of the season:
Philadelphia 31-31 and ends at 41-41 (assuming somehow NJ allows them to win the Division this way)
Orlando would have to finish 40-22 and that's .645 winning percentage.

That is to assume Orlando would play like a 53-29 team for the rest of the season to finish 41-41.

Yes other teams can faulter and Orlando could get very hot. (how this could happen is only through a trade, a big one)

Saying you were a fan, but because they starting losing you no longer like them, is like saying "I don't love my brother anymore because he got fired from Kentucky Fried Chicken."

Show some loyality.

[Jackal]

I'm not really a big fan anny more

Tch tch tch, true fan you are.

[bishibashiboy]

paul_pierce_the_truth I agree with everything you said except about Pat Garrity. Yes it's true his stats are nothing to brag about (although 10 ppg isn't totally NOTHING), but the ability to pull people out to the three point line is something that should be considered as well. Without another 3-point shooter, other teams like to zone up on t-mac and back off reducing the spacing Orlando needs as a team on offence.
In one of the games he played this season, he immediately made a difference simply cuz his defender actually had to stay on him from the outside which opened up things and led to a few baskets for the Magic.
His overall #'s are weak, but never underestimate the effect in crunch time of leaving a deadly 3-point shooter unguarded and the reluctance it brings for teams to collapse on T-mac.

[Damien War]

Somebody who knows about basketball. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Vins15]

19th straight loss for Magic...

[paul_pierce_the_truth]

If you are saying that I don't understand how a decent shooter could help McGrady, you are wrong, Pat Garrity wouldn't do a fucking thing for Orlando's losing streak, got it?

[paul_pierce_the_truth]

http://www.nba.com/games/20031206/ORLDAL/boxscore.html

Digging a hole baby.

[Damien War]

Personally, I don't give a flying fuck if they lose every game, i'm a Laker fan. Having a player like Pat makes the game easier for T-mac. You're stuck on statistical imput. He's a role player, he plays a role. With him they are a better team. Do you get that?

[paul_pierce_the_truth]

Personally, I don't give a flying fuck if they lose every game, i'm a Laker fan. Having a player like Pat makes the game easier for T-mac. You're stuck on statistical imput. He's a role player, he plays a role. With him they are a better team. Do you get that?

You see I have been watching Pat Garrity play ball since he was at Notre Dame and I have some idea of his abilities, his role is not big enough to slow this trainwreck.

In one of the games he played this season, he immediately made a difference simply cuz his defender actually had to stay on him from the outside which opened up things and led to a few baskets for the Magic.

Somebody who knows about basketball

http://www.nba.com/games/20031107/MINOR ... l?nav=page

[Damien War]

I would argue, but it's saturday night and it's time to get some ass. HOLLA!!!

[Matthew]

But he would help.. he wouldnt be the saviour tho, Mike you're right. But the Magic need TMac to play alot better, the need an inside and outside precense apart from tmac, and they need better rebounding and defense. Pat garrity would help out in one area really..
and one more thing hehe

because no real fan respects a bandwagoner

But then i saw this lol

The Mailman Karl Malone, The Glove Gary Payton , The Big Aristotle Shaq Diesiel, and hated but ain't faded Lil' Bean Kobe Bryant...

Hehehe, no wonder he had to rape that girl

[-BHZMAFIA-]

i feel sorry for drew gooden and giricek because they were so happy about leaving memphis last year. Memphis was losing bad last year so since magic made their little playoff run they were so excited about being in orlando. NOW LOOK AT THEM! they now have a worse record than they had when they were with the grizz last year. i wonder what they think of the grizz now? i cant wait til we play them again...im a magic fan too, so even though they are 1-18 i still like them mainly because of their jerseys and TMAC. I also like gooden, but they changed their jerseys now so i dont like their jerseys anymore.

[bishibashiboy]

If you are saying that I don't understand how a decent shooter could help McGrady, you are wrong, Pat Garrity wouldn't do a fucking thing for Orlando's losing streak, got it?

geez calm down. You're not always right about everything. It's YOUR opinion about the Magic. Respect ours.

And your box score from the game doesn't really mean much. They lost to a good team. At the time they also didn't have Gordon Giriceck as well. Am I saying the addition of both would have guaranteed a win? Nope. But I am saying that a full lineup featuring Garrity as well may have had more of a chance to put an end to their losing streak than w/o him. That's all. You make it sound like Garrity is good for nothing. But you said so yourself, 10 ppg avg. Better than nothing which is what he's giving them now. The Magic are a horrible team true and I never argued with that fact, so just chill man.

[Nel]

If you are saying that I don't understand how a decent shooter could help McGrady, you are wrong, Pat Garrity wouldn't do a fucking thing for Orlando's losing streak, got it?

geez calm down. You're not always right about everything. It's YOUR opinion about the Magic. Respect ours.

I . It seems like he's right in everything he says.

[paul_pierce_the_truth]

bishibashiboy wrote:

In one of the games he played this season, he immediately made a difference simply cuz his defender actually had to stay on him from the outside which opened up things and led to a few baskets for the Magic.

You are the one that got me going, here you mentioned something that just didn't happen, it is not honest, it's made-up and thus it pissed me off that someone would then add that you were someone that knew something about basketball as if I didn't have an idea of what goes on. This pissed me off further, yes I understand the entire thing, yes I understand about a decent shooter making space for McGrady and finally I understand that Pat Garrity averaging 10 ppg last year doesn't mean he would this year, it's 2 different seasons and sometimes more or less scoring chances and touches come for a guy. To just say if they had him they would not be losing like this or that things would be eaiser for McGrady is baseless and I tried a number of different times to explain this.

The boxscore is the one game this year that he played (more than just a couple of minutes), it's a very small sample I admit, but it shows that Orlando was blownout and he did nothing near what you said above. I really think I have made my point with Garrirty.

Giricek isn't slowing the downward spiral any either, so as a matter of opinion they would suck with Garrity, Giricek and McGrady in the line-up. The fact is they let Darrell Armstrong get away and this team is not the same team as last year even with the above mentioned players.

Doc Rivers said he let Armstrong go because he was a great leader and that he wanted McGrady to be that person. He believes that the best player should be wear the "C" on their jersey, or least he did believe this at the time he decided to let Armstrong go "for the sake of the team". You'll have to check with him on that one now.

Check these boxscores here, you see that Armstrong helps out a bit, also Drew Gooden actually could play here and Pat Garrity means nothing.

http://www.nba.com/games/20030420/ORLDET/boxscore.html

McGrady 43; Gooden 18 & 14; Garrity 2 points 8 reb; Armstrong 9 and 5 assists

Here Garrity puts in 2 points but gets 8 rebounds and Orlando wins.

http://www.nba.com/games/20030423/ORLDET/boxscore.html

Here McGrady scores 46 and no other Magic players are informed as to where their rim is.

http://www.nba.com/games/20030425/DETORL/boxscore.html

Here McGrady gets 29 and his help is Darrell Armstrong and Drew Gooden, Pat Garrity must be creating open looks for TMac again, Detroit probably stayed up all night worring about Garrtity's three-pointer.

http://www.nba.com/games/20030427/DETORL/boxscore.html

McGrady gets 27 here and his help is the usual people Drew Gooden and Darrell Armstrong's 18 and 4 assists.

Garrity must have clearing the zone again.

http://www.nba.com/games/20030430/ORLDET/boxscore.html

Now they start playing like this year's version of themselves.
Armstrong played poorly.
Detroit must have been forgotton about by Garrity here, because the clamps were put on TMac. Garrity did get 5 points on 6 shots and 2 rebounds though

http://www.nba.com/games/20030502/DETORL/boxscore.html

McGrady gets 37, Armstrong faulters again, Garrity does nothing but shoot 2-9.

http://www.nba.com/games/20030504/ORLDET/boxscore.html

Now Doc Rivers starts believing in the same logic as you guys and starts Pat Garrity, is that one rebound in 35 minutes from a Starting Center?
He gets the mentioned 10 points, no assists and what happens, they go fishing.

In the 7-Game Series Garrity averaged 4.3 ppg, 2.6 reb, 0.7 ast, 0.7 turnovers, 3.4 fouls, didn't block a shot and shot an amazing 10-35 for a defense drawing 28.6% and also he spread the zone with his 4-17 three pointers for the mind bending 23.5%.

If they only had him doing all this now!

[Full Surface]

If only they still had this guy..

[Matt]

i wonder if they regret trading Miller for Gooden and Giricek? Magic desperately need somebody that can shoot the ball

[paul_pierce_the_truth]

i wonder if they regret trading Miller for Gooden and Giricek? Magic desperately need somebody that can shoot the ball

Traded by the Magic with Ryan Humphrey, a future first-round draft pick and a future second-round draft pick to the Memphis Grizzlies for Drew Gooden and Gordan Giricek on 2/19/03.

The Grizzlies received a first-round pick owed to Orlando by Sacramento and a second-round selection in 2004, while sending an undisclosed amount of cash to the Magic.

Memphis only got the 27th Pick in 2003 but swung the deal involving Kendrick Perikins (27th) and Marcus Banks (13th) to Boston for Troy Bell (16th) and Dahntay Jones (20th). Though the Boson/Memphis trade still has to be determined, they got at least Dahntay Jones in the Orlando deal.

Cash
Mike Miller
Ryan Humphrey (24-years-old, but still no production)
Dahntay Jones
2004 2nd Round Pick

for

Drew Gooden
Gordan Giricek

Still looks slightly in favor of Orlando, but Miller could certainly be helping McGrady out as mentioned above with the arguements that the flat-footed Pat Garrity can not do, which is get the zone spread out or shutoff or create more clean looks for McGrady.

Earlier last month I detailed how Orlando went crazy during the 2000 offseason and NBA Draft. Though Alexander is out for the year and that makes that a decent trade for this year, he could have helped last playoff and in the future.

10. Magic -Keyon Dooling G Missouri
(from Denver)
Rights traded to Los Angeles Clippers, along with Corey Maggette and Derek Strong and cash considerations, for a future first-round draft pick.

13. Magic -Courtney Alexander G Fresno State
Rights traded to Dallas for a future first-round pick and cash considerations.

[This was a trade deadline move that would later have Billups and Mercer just walking away]
Traded Tariq Abdul-Wahad with Chris Gatling, a first-round draft choice and cash considerations to the Denver Nuggets for Chauncey Billups, Ron Mercer, Johnny Taylor and draft considerations on 2/1/00.

Ron Mercer signed as a free agent with the Chicago Bulls on (August 1, 2000)

Traded Matt Harpring to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Andrew DeClercq (August 3, 2000)

Traded Ben Wallace with Chucky Atkins to the Detroit Pistons for Grant Hill (August 3, 2000)

Chauncey Billups signed as free agent by Minnesota Timberwolves (August 8, 2000)

All the above moves involving Ben Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Corey Maggette, Keyon Dooling, Ron Mercer, Chucky Atkins, Matt Harpring and cash for picks was for Grant Hill and Andrew DeClercq.

They already had cap space to acquire Tracy McGrady from Toronto in exchange for a future first round draft pick in a sign-and-trade deal (Aug. 3, 2000).

Because I have not looked very deeply for all the draft considerations as of yet, I have no idea what picks they still have remaining from Denver, LA Clippers and Dallas.

One of them may be this massive screw up from 2001:

Traded Bo Outlaw with a future first-round draft pick (#9 pick overall) (Amaré Stoudemire) and cash to the Phoenix Suns in a three-way deal in which the Magic received Jud Buechler from the Suns and the option to swap 2005 second-round draft picks with the L.A. Clippers, and the Clippers received Vinny Del Negro from the Suns and cash from the Magic on 11/16/01.

I am not trying to bash Orlando to death here, I am not proud of all the moves Boston has made (Antoine Walker), but I am tying to expain the downfall of a franchise on brink of disaster.

Researched by Mike Davis from various internet and memory sources.

[Damien War]

NBA Fan, you fightin dirty