Groundbreaking Feature Revealed

Talk about NBA Live 09 here.

Postby rdelizo35 on Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:09 am

NTC,

Nash averaged 60 a game last year when you played Live '08?!!! wtf?! Those numbers make what Wilt did look terrible in comparison! :shock:

God, I hope that they do fix the simulated stats problem because it can get really irritating.
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Postby Darko_Milicic on Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:52 am

I don't like it. Its unnecessary. I do care more about Gameplay.
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Postby rdelizo35 on Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:53 am

Darko_Milicic,

Personally, I like it. Besides, if it will help make gameplay better, then it will be worth it. Either way, some will like it, while others won't.

That being said, NBA Live '09 will be one heck of a game when it comes out.
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Postby ThaLiveKing on Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:45 pm

Darko_Milicic wrote:I don't like it. Its unnecessary. I do care more about Gameplay.


The gameplay videos look 200 times better than last year
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Postby Cool2Fool on Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:54 pm

Man I rather see NBA live academy than this so called ground breaking feature.
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Postby Pdub on Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:08 pm

I wonder if EA Sports was expecting a "Holy Crap that's awesome!" from the community. It seems to be getting mixed reviews, with some of us saying that it is going to be awesome and others saying it's just a roster update. I wonder if they didn't reveal the feature earlier so 2K Sports couldn't steal it.

My opinion about it is that it is a great break through, but it won't matter at all if the game does not have solid, balanced, responsive gameplay. If you can't control your actions as quickly as possible, or certain parts of the game can be exploited to the brink of "cheese", it will distract from the great features.
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Postby Ruthless Outlaw on Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:11 pm

I don't understand how people say that the feature is unnecessary. I mean, atleast there is no negative aspect coming out of this feature, the only things that come from this is positive. And by the way, when the ratings and AI is updated to play as the real players, it affects the gameplay, which makes the gameplay better.
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Postby benji on Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:18 pm

Unless the ratings are poorly updated. (I don't see anything in this about AI being updated.) And the gameplay and AI are so terrible it can't be fixed by minute rating changes.
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Postby RapsPlayoffs on Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:54 pm

Andrew wrote:How so? It's not just a roster update, which is something I think a lot of people might be focusing on. It's also meant to be an upgrade to player AI; if it works as intended, we should see the right players taking the shots and taking the kind of shots you'd expect them to take in a real game. Daily updates also mean that any errors should be corrected within 24 hours and if the roster updates themselves are more detailed, with fewer missing players and ratings updates, so much the better.

It remains to be seen how well it will work for everyone but I wouldn't call it unnecessary.


Actually, the roster updates is the only thing that I like about this. Where a player shoots and how much he makes it in real life should have nothing to do with a player in game. The only factors that should determine a player's accuracy is how long you hold the shoot button, how high his rating is, and how close the defender is. Personally, I would hate to miss all my shots with a player just because he's on a cold streak in real life. As realistic as a game can be, a video game is still a video game. Also, how do you know this feature will actually work well? EA always makes these new features in every new release and they turn out to look like unfinished test products. They should work on improving what they already have to make this a solid game, instead of adding a 'groundbreaking' feature to make it go over the top every year.
?!
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Postby SHAFT23 on Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:08 pm

they should have an option that disables the hot spots all together in user vs user games. In the games i have played a lot of guys shot from the same spots all game.
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Postby NTC on Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:30 pm

The feature doesn't seem that great to me, and I'm quite dissapointed this was the "big feature".

Granted, it does change the way sports games will be played, as they said, but the fact we'll likely have to pay for it renders it pretty much obsolete, as I'm not going to pay to use it, and I think alot of people will feel the same way.
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Postby Andrew on Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:54 pm

oLw619 wrote:I don't see this features as a groundbreaking, but it's ok


The entire concept has never been done before (though certainly elements of it are familiar) so I think it was fair enough to say it's ground-breaking.

Martti. wrote:If Kobe shoots like 5-25 in real life and you play a whole season the following day, would your Kobe be in a slump the whole season? And the next time, say he shoots 20-25 in real life, would that mean, he shoots freaking hot every single game you play on that day?


It's based on a ten day span, so one bad game is not going to result in players being reduced to scrubs, nor will it result in ratings being maxed out because someone got hot and went off for 40 points while making two thirds of their shots.

NTC wrote:Andrew, will this mean simulated stats for players on other teams, are alot more realistic now? (i.e. no Steve Nash dropping 60.0ppg like I experienced last year)


I don't think it's going to have much of an impact on simulated stats. That's a different area. With the featured scorer logic and Player DNA we shouldn't see players like Nash go off for 50 points all the time during gameplay but the simulated stats that I saw were off which was a bit of a letdown. Hopefully they fix that before the game goes gold.

Darko_Milicic wrote:I don't like it. Its unnecessary. I do care more about Gameplay.


How is it unnecessary? It's not like they ignored gameplay to bring us this feature; the feature is meant to affect and improve gameplay by giving players a new level of logic. I think you might be focusing on the roster update element and not the new stuff that is going to be updated. Granted, I'm not sure how well it will pan out but it's a feature that's very much geared towards making the gameplay better. Hopefully, it will prove to be a success.

Cool2Fool wrote:Man I rather see NBA live academy than this so called ground breaking feature.


I'm not sure what your objection is. It's not like you have to choose between the features. If you don't have any interest in this particular feature, it's not like you're missing out on having the NBA Academy.

As far as it being ground-breaking, again I think it was a fair enough assessment. I can't think of another sports game like NBA Live (excluding text sims and manager games) that have boasted daily updates as NBA Live 365 will.

Pdub wrote:I wonder if EA Sports was expecting a "Holy Crap that's awesome!" from the community. It seems to be getting mixed reviews, with some of us saying that it is going to be awesome and others saying it's just a roster update. I wonder if they didn't reveal the feature earlier so 2K Sports couldn't steal it.


I think a lot of people are dismissing it as just a roster update or are focusing too much on whether it deserved to be called ground-breaking rather than judging it on what it's going to bring to the table, good or bad. I'm sure a lot of people had their heart set on it being something else as well which has led to some disappointment when it's turned out to be something else altogether.

RapsPlayoffs wrote:Actually, the roster updates is the only thing that I like about this. Where a player shoots and how much he makes it in real life should have nothing to do with a player in game. The only factors that should determine a player's accuracy is how long you hold the shoot button, how high his rating is, and how close the defender is.


Well, it's how well he shoots in real life that goes into determining those ratings so I'm not sure what the problem is there. It's just that there's some other logic in there that in theory will have the players playing more realistically, so you won't see Steve Nash constantly driving to the basket or Tony Parker being the guy to set picks for the Spurs. I can't see how that would be a detriment to gameplay.

RapsPlayoffs wrote:Personally, I would hate to miss all my shots with a player just because he's on a cold streak in real life. As realistic as a game can be, a video game is still a video game. Also, how do you know this feature will actually work well? EA always makes these new features in every new release and they turn out to look like unfinished test products. They should work on improving what they already have to make this a solid game, instead of adding a 'groundbreaking' feature to make it go over the top every year.


You can choose note to use the latest updates; indeed, if you've started a Dynasty game the updates won't apply to that saved file. That means if you're happy with the ratings as they are (or as of any particular update), you can save them along with the roster, use it to start a Dynasty and keep playing with that one. The whole package being offered includes daily updates but you don't have to make use of that if you don't want to. As I said before though, it's not like one bad game sends a player's ratings right down the tubes.

I'll grant you that I don't know that it will definitely work out but it can't be said that it will definitely fail, either. I think if it works out as well as planned it's going to be great so I do have high hopes for it.

NTC wrote:The feature doesn't seem that great to me, and I'm quite dissapointed this was the "big feature".

Granted, it does change the way sports games will be played, as they said, but the fact we'll likely have to pay for it renders it pretty much obsolete, as I'm not going to pay to use it, and I think alot of people will feel the same way.


You don't like the idea of players playing their real life counterparts? That's what Player DNA is aiming to achieve. Time will tell how well it work out but I would have thought that would be a well-received idea. Again, I have high hopes for it.

I do agree about the possibility of paying for the service in the future but nothing is confirmed there and as Pasta said the consumer reaction to that may play a role in whether it becomes a paid service. I'm certainly not keen on paying for the updates but it remains to be seen exactly what will happen there.
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Postby Cool2Fool on Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:29 pm

I mean I'd love to see nba live academy demonstration at E3 over this. Suck's they didn't show alot of gameplay :-x
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Postby Bmur on Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:53 pm

Is the Player DNA only going to be on the ps3 and xbox 360?
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Postby Cool2Fool on Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:55 pm

Yes and only.
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Postby shadowgrin on Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:42 am

Andrew wrote:To take advantage of NBA Live 365, you will need to input a code that is shipped with the game. We were told that an Xbox Live Silver account is sufficient for Xbox 360 users who wish to use the service. 365 is available free of charge in NBA Live 09 though it was hinted during the discussion of the feature that it may carry a charge in the future.
While it remains to be seen just how well NBA Live 365 caters to hardcore and casual gamers alike, I do think the entire package is worthy of the "ground-breaking" hype. More than just a daily roster update, it's also adding new dynamic player logic that if effective should have players performing as they should, intelligently and realistically. The concept of a sports game that will update, evolve and change over the course of a season is certainly a new approach which I hope will pay off as we'd all like.

If they plan on charging for it, why should I pay for a feature that should actually be part of the game?
Isn't that the purpose of developing the AI of sports games, for it to be real like "in the game"?
Silly, money-grubbing EA.
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Postby rdelizo35 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:05 am

Shadowgrin,

That's a good point.
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Postby benji on Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:25 am

It's not AI, it's just ratings updates. So, of course they can charge you for it.
It's based on a ten day span

Gross. Don't they know anything about sample sizes?
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Postby Pdub on Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:49 am

You probably won't need to pay for it to get it. I mean, you can share rosters, so who is to say you can't share a DNA updated roster with someone who isn't paying for the service? Unless they take sharing out from the game, or that the DNA is speperate from the rosters themselves.. God knows they don't take things out of the game for the better. :whistle:

I don't expect them to charge an immense amount for the service. People probably won't want to pay if it cost too much, and then it will be taken out.

Also, if this is to change the way sports games are made, then it is likely that all of their games will include this at one time or another. EA Sports is paying alot for that service, and if it can really improve the gameplay and create a new experience every day, then it is worth giving them some extra bucks.
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Postby rdelizo35 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:10 am

Pdub,

I agree with you 100%. I think the cost issue is okay as long as it's reasonable. I'm okay with paying a little more $$$ if it means better gameplay and a more realistic experience.

Didn't EA pay Synergy Sports something like $20,000 - $30,000? If that means paying $10 - $20 a month fee, I don't see that as being a major problem. Of course, that's just my opinion and I'm sure that there will be plenty out there who will disagree and that's okay.

:)
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Postby ThaLiveKing on Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:10 am

So does play callin adjust as well?
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Postby rdelizo35 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:12 am

ThaLiveKing,

Yes, I believe as the Dynamic DNA data on NBA Live 365 changes, so does signature playcalling to accomodate those changes.

So if Paul Pierce is changed to a more pick and roll type player, then I think you'd then see more of pick and roll plays for Pierce as opposed to isolations or whatever.

Also, if we change the Dynamic DNA data ourselves, I think it will also affect signature playcalling, based on the particular changes made.

At least, that's the way I understand it.
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Postby ThaLiveKing on Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:23 am

But it could also mean they run the specific plays that they already put in the game. . . .unless they put a whole lot of Different plays in the game, last year didn't have that much, and is able to match each player tendency changes towards each plays.

But that would be cool if you could import new plays. cause you can get teams to play how each team REALLY plays, not with all the same plays, and just run specific plays that you already know how to stop. It keeps the game fresh. Which is a good thing. When playing I wouldn't mind surprises here and there
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Postby rdelizo35 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:32 am

ThaLiveKing,

I think that it would be cool if you could import more team-specific and player specific plays into NBA Live. Maybe EA will consider that for a future NBA Live game if they haven't already for NBA Live '09.

I remember an early vid or interview somewhere when Live '09 was being developed, one of the producers said that the signature playcalling would be more team specific.

For example, Lakers run triangle, Spurs use a lot of pick and rolls, etc.
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Postby Andrew on Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:36 am

rdelizo34 wrote:If that means paying $10 - $20 a month fee, I don't see that as being a major problem.


I don't they'd be charging a monthly subscription for it, $10-$20 would be pretty steep in my view. This is just my speculation but I assume there'd be a once-off fee when you buy the game and activate NBA Live 365, if they do charge for it down the road. I doubt a lot of people would be willing to pay a monthly subscription rate like that, I certainly wouldn't and I like the Player DNA/Live 365 concept.
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Postby rdelizo35 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:39 am

Andrew,

When you point it that way, it makes a lot of sense. Paying over $100 - $200 a year just to use it is steep.

I like the idea of a one-time fee, though. Although, I hope they keep it free.
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Postby benji on Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:40 am

This is the same company that wants you to pay a yearly fee to continue playing your games. Of course they'd love to charge people for mere roster updates.
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Postby Andrew on Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:44 am

I think it would have to be, I really don't see people paying a monthly subscription. As it is a lot of people will probably have to be really wowed by the concept to want to even pay a one-time fee but we could be getting ahead of ourselves here as that hasn't happened yet. For NBA Live 09 at least, the updates will be free.
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Postby nowitzkihater on Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:37 pm

do you need xbox live for this feature or can you play even if you're banned (i bought a banned console)
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Postby deihatein on Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:05 pm

nowitzkihater wrote:do you need xbox live for this feature or can you play even if you're banned (i bought a banned console)


Banned Consoles?
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Postby Pdub on Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:47 am

Consoles get banned by Microsoft(they have a way of identifying consoles) after they detect that it was modded.
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Postby shadowgrin on Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:18 am

benji wrote:It's not AI, it's just ratings updates. So, of course they can charge you for it.

I see.

Now I think that it might be a cause of excuse for EA to slack-off and release barely finished Live games year after year. They won't bother polishing the finished product.

Release the game 80% finished.
Then require the buyers to cough up money just to get the other 10% percent of the game to have it "complete".

Nice business strategy. Bastards.
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Postby Andrew on Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:16 pm

nowitzkihater wrote:do you need xbox live for this feature or can you play even if you're banned (i bought a banned console)


You'll need an Xbox Live Silver account to get the updates.

shadowgrin wrote:Now I think that it might be a cause of excuse for EA to slack-off and release barely finished Live games year after year. They won't bother polishing the finished product.

Release the game 80% finished.
Then require the buyers to cough up money just to get the other 10% percent of the game to have it "complete".


Not really. The game will ship with last season's data; they can't include current season data until it's available, which of course isn't possible until the season begins. Rookies obviously can't have any data until the season begins either.

That said, I don't relish the idea of paying for the updates down the road.
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Postby de4dpoet on Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:00 pm

The new features really impress me, I read everything I found about, but there's still one question left: Will the NBA Live 365 be available on the PC version? Or is that feature once again only for the consoleros?
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Postby JaoSming on Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:39 pm

There is no 09 PC version this year.
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Postby StupidBoy on Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:09 pm

JaoSming wrote:There is no 09 PC version this year.


I think he means for the future PC Live's...
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Postby Andrew on Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:50 am

de4dpoet wrote:The new features really impress me, I read everything I found about, but there's still one question left: Will the NBA Live 365 be available on the PC version? Or is that feature once again only for the consoleros?


Well, it definitely won't be this year since as Jao pointed out there's no PC version of NBA Live 09, so NBA Live will have to return to the PC platform first. I would hope that if/when the PC version returns it will benefit from the 365 updates as well.
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Postby fjccommish on Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:25 pm

So they may charge extra for a feature in the game, even after consumers pay both for the game and for XBox Live service. Wow.
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Postby Andrew on Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:33 pm

They certainly may, though that isn't set in stone.
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Postby GuCcI08 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:58 pm

after reading about nba live 09, feels lyke im in heaven even tho i gotta spend some cashies.
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Postby hawks24 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:28 am

ooh, artificial intelligence, if that's groundbreaking
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Postby Andrew on Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:14 am

I think that's missing the point, not only in terms of what Player DNA will hopefully mean for NBA Live but in terms of the daily updates for the AI too, which is something no other sports game has done to date. I would say that qualifies it as a ground-breaking feature. However, the pre-unveiling hype really doesn't matter anymore. It's about what these new addition mean for the game and how successful they will be.
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Postby rdelizo35 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:30 am

Good point, Andrew. Hype aside, it's telling that the developers at EA went out and basically contracted with the likes of Synergy Sports in order to allow something like Dynamic DNA and Live365 updates to be available in the game through daily updates.

If Live365/Dynamic DNA means a greater depth of realism to gameplay, then I'd say that a lot of people out there will actually enjoy NBA Live '09 as opposed to previous editions. Sure, it's not perfect, and I'm sure there's still a lot of things that gamers want that wil be left out, but NBA Live '09 stands to be one of the better games that the series has ever made.

Besides, how the player decides to use Live365/Dynamic DNA will help make the game a more enjoyable and unique experience, in my opinion. We'll just have to play the game ourselves and then we can make a fair decision on whether or not this feature is truly worth the $30,000 or so EA spent to integrate it into this year's game.

Personally, I think that it will be worth it and I'm very excited to get my hands on the game and play it to see how Dynamic DNA influences the overall gameplay.
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Postby Andrew on Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:31 pm

I think the problem relates back to what I brought up in the "Do we have a passionate community?" thread, in that we do tend to be cynical especially when it comes to the names of features. I think a lot of people hear "NBA Live 365" and immediately write it off as a gimmicky premise without looking at everything it entails.

If these additions to the AI (the Player DNA, tendencies and featured scorer logic) work as well as planned, it should mean players play more like their real life counterparts which is a staple of the wishlist. Frequent and detailed official roster updates are something else that we've wanted for the console versions and that's also part of 365. These aspects simply happen to come under the umbrella of a name that EA Sports can market.

That's just the way it is. The game doesn't refer to "Multi-season play with trades, free agency and the NBA Draft", it's Dynasty Mode. These features are always going to have a shorter name that looks good in promotional media and on the back of the box. As long as they do the job, I say what's in a name? (Well, Shakespeare said it first but you get the point)

The same goes for calling it a "ground-breaking" feature. I think it's a fair enough assessment because it is something new in sports games. There's been player logic and roster updates but as far as the whole package is concerned, it does break new ground. But that hype is over and done with, what's important now is whether it achieves its purpose and gives us what we want out of the NBA Live experience. I have a good feeling about it but having said that, I'm sure people were hoping for something else, particularly casual gamers who don't necessarily care that Steve Nash is lighting them up for 40 points every time so long as they find the game playable and enjoyable.
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Postby Bodz on Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:25 am

Well said, Andrew!
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