Hoopscitylive new super tweaked roster

by **joemimic** on Mon Dec 02, 2002 7:03 pm

Nope i really haven't messed with it, I'm leaving that up to the professional tweakers and just looking to see if I can find more things to helpout with.

by **ToniStarks** on Mon Dec 02, 2002 8:35 pm

Mike, on second thought *.8 might be too drastic of an adjustment. How about *.85 instead? I say this because quickness really affects everything from reaction time on defense and offense, to execution time on spins and freestyle moves, etc. Example, jump shots take longer to develop and in a sense this makes it easier to time a block, although the defenders reaction is affected as well. It also makes the game seem too staticy if you know what I mean. Also, seeing pg's such as Fisher and Hughes perform spin moves is almost unbearable to watch. IMO *.85 seems to do the trick. Tell us what you think.

by **ToniStarks** on Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:46 am

We need some more feedback concerning this roster. Who's using this roster so far? What're your assessments?

by **Stonecold** on Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:50 am

I combined this roster with DK. LOL

by **SUDI 5 29** on Tue Dec 03, 2002 9:50 am

I just played two games with this roster. 8 Mins on Superstar, Arcade with Maxed Fouls and No Assist and Human Shot. Games played very well, only a few problems. I'm going to need some more practice on Superstar to pull off wins. I was Milwaukee in the first game, then Dallas.

Code: Select all: Entire Game Miami Milwaukee Points 100 77 Bench Scoring 36 23 Field Goals 34/71 28/65 Field Goal % .479 .431 3 Point FG 3/6 4/18 3 Point % .500 .222 Free Throws 29/31 17/29 Free Throw % .935 .586 Rebounds 29 41 Off. Rebounds 3 16 Def. Rebounds 26 25 Blocks 0 9 Steals 13 1 Assists 14 15 Turnovers 6 22 Fouls 26 24

Code: Select all: Entire Game Seattle Dallas Points 98 97 Bench Scoring 32 19 Field Goals 34/75 32/70 Field Goal % .453 .457 3 Point FG 6/18 8/21 3 Point % .333 .381 Free Throws 24/25 25/30 Free Throw % .960 .833 Rebounds 25 41 Off. Rebounds 2 9 Def. Rebounds 23 32 Blocks 8 7 Steals 15 7 Assists 18 21 Turnovers 16 23 Fouls 28 22

Going down the line...I think 9 minutes or even 10 minute quarters should produce realistic FG attempts. Should be about 10-15 more FG attempts by each tean. FG% were very good. At times high, but then would level out, and then going back up. So like a real game, that % fluctuated and then leveled out at the end. I think 3's are fine...Offensive rebounds are the problem as always. Even when I turn my Box Out and Crash Boards to OFF, the rebounds still aren't even. Blocks seem fine. CPU steals are high, but I guess Mike is going to try to fix that, so score on that one. Fouls maybe are a little high, so could just turn them down a notch or two. Not really sure though. Any feedback on my results would be appreciated.

I was playing defense with my PF or C primarily with situations where I would switch. That helps with double teams and quick players and stopping them and contesting their shots. It seems though that everything that can possibly happen for you to lose the game occurs. Like I am inbouding the ball and my PG decides to stand out of bounds. And, those running out of bounds and throwing the ball back between their legs passes happen way too often, mostly leadings to interceptions.

Right now for me this is the best patch I've used. Keep up the good work Mike. I hope you can fix as many problems as possible soon, cause I wanna start a franchise

. Thanks again!

by **hoopscitylive** on Tue Dec 03, 2002 10:11 am

You won't really notice a difference between .80 and .85. We're talking 2.5% of their in-game rating.

But I will try several variations of quickness and go with the best one.

I simmed a season last night to see how the patch does in that area. Some of the teams did overachieve (Den, Mem, Cle) and others really sucked (SA, Bos, Sea). I'm going to see if I can fix this without messing with the ratings.

I think the answer lies in the stats in the players.dbf. I tried emptying them (as they are for created players), but it resulted in the lakers having 5 guys scouing in double digits, led by Kobe with 19ppg on 12 min quarters. When I tried to view the leaders, the game crashed. So maybe I'll have to edit those manually. It's probably going to take some time, so for now I will be concentrating on gameplay.

Also, I think the file rtgxref.dbf in the NBA Live 2003/database/Origdb folder may relate to how rookies are generated. I will be messing with that eventually to see what it does...

by **SUDI 5 29** on Tue Dec 03, 2002 11:31 am

I don't mind a few teams teams under-achieving and a few teams over-achieving. That's the beauty of playing your own season. It wouldn't be as fun if you got the same exact results as the real NBA...

by **ToniStarks** on Tue Dec 03, 2002 11:36 am

Good response everyone. Mike, you might want to take a look at the 3pt% for certain PF's in the league. This problem could be more widespread, however, so far I've observed Malone and Gugs heaving several 3's during the course of a game. Checked their stats and sure enough Malone had been assigned a 77 3pt rating, while Gugs had a 75. These are almost top 3pt ratings on their respective teams

In concern with quickness ratings, see if you can find a formula that will drop ratings by approximately 5-6pts(In-game ratings)from the original ratings for each player, no more, no less. Example, Kobe with 93 quickness(original roster), should be sitting at 88 after adjustments or something close to this figure. Anything lower and you'll experience a very stagnant game IMO. This really gives the game that "balance" feel if you know what I mean. Actually, I believe you were on the right track at first when you stated that you'd be "reducing quickness slightly". I feel these ratings will fit the bill so to speak. As usual, keep us updated.

Thanks

by **ToniStarks** on Tue Dec 03, 2002 11:53 am

Scotty Mase,

I've edited quickness ratings for 15 teams. Teams are Wiz, Sonics, Kings, Raptors, T'Wolves, Lakers, Mavs, Nets, Magic, 76ers, Suns, Knicks, Celtics and Blazers, Rockets. If you want this roster, let me know. Once again, quickness was reduced by -5. The gameplay is very balanced now IMO, and I'd like to hear opinions regarding these changes.

by **hoopscitylive** on Tue Dec 03, 2002 12:30 pm

Toni, thanks for your help. I'll try multiplying the quickness by .9. This will reduce the high quick players by 5 and lesser players by a little less.

The three point rating equates to a players' range. With my forumla, the results were pretty accurate, but obviously guys like Malone and Gugs, hit a good percentage of their few threes. I will adjust their ratings manually to better reflect their range. Please let me know if you find any other big men taking/making a crazy amount of threes.

by **ToniStarks** on Tue Dec 03, 2002 12:44 pm

No problem Mike. Glad to assist in some capacity. I'll keep an open eye and report any discrepancies found. I must admit, it was damn funny seeing muscular Malone sprint to the arc only to heave and make the three on a few occassions. For a while I thought I'd lost my mind

by **ToniStarks** on Tue Dec 03, 2002 12:52 pm

BTW, I know the difference might be negligible, but is *.85 not a viable option with your ratings adjustment tool? Like you say, somewhere around -6 for higher rated players and slightly less for lower rated players should do the trick.

by **SUDI 5 29** on Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:25 pm

This game still doesn't fail to amaze me. I was Boston playing at Orlando, and it WAS close in the 3rd, at the time where we were both shooting about 45%, but then all of a sudden Orlando goes whacky and doesn't miss I think for atleast 10 minutes or so it seemed. I changed some settings. First of all, I used to Toni's tweak to the HCL roster, plus I played 9 mins and got good FG attempt #'s, so I think 9 mins is the way. I turned down Def. Fouls 2 from the Max and Off. Fouls 1 from the Max. Superstart, Arcade, yadda yadda yadda

Code: Select all: Entire Game Boston Orlando Points 106 131 Bench Scoring 11 47 Field Goals 41/88 51/83 Field Goal % .466 .614 3 Point FG 8/29 6/14 3 Point % .276 .429 Free Throws 16/20 23/24 Free Throw % .800 .958 Rebounds 40 32 Off. Rebounds 16 4 Def. Rebounds 24 28 Blocks 4 2 Steals 8 14 Assists 22 24 Turnovers 22 13 Fouls 21 20

Now, FT% is too high for CPU. In the 3 games I've played they are 76/80. So, that will just make it more difficult for the Human, but practice I guess will do the trick. I hope this was just Orlando, a good shooting team, having a one game wonder at 60%. Also, I kinda thing that CPU 3PT % is too high too. Jaques Vaughn decided to nail me with 3 of them, plus Pat Garrity hit one with 3 guys in his face from the corner...with ease...With fixing glue hand interceptions and hopefully the FG% staying in the 40's most of the time, the tweak should still become the best out.

by **ToniStarks** on Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:32 pm

Interesting. I have yet to see such a high fg% for the opponent at the end of games. It could also mean that you need to adjust to the roster changes. I know I had to go through this. Anyhow, do you apply high pressure to star players at all? This has really helped in my case. I'm quite aware of this spurt that you speak of. However, I think the key is to combat it by playing your best defense during these periods. The cpu will have to re-think it's strategy if you're even partially successful at stopping the score during this period. It's also good to know your opponent extremely well before heading into a game. 3pt threats, inside scorers, etc. This mental preparation IMO allows one to react better during the course of a game. However, there are times when you can't do much to stop the bleeding, especially when playing on the opponents home court. I just try to ride out the wave and keep telling myself to not let it get outta hand. Also, did you leave Vaughn open? Try to switch constantly on D allowing your Cpu teammates to rotate to their zone or man. If an opponent is left open in the corner for 3, turbo over to that end to try and distract the shot. Even jumping in that direction could do the trick. You'll experience more success this way compared to when your player stands there flat footed. I've caused several shots to miss their mark by simply sticking to this plan

Code: Select all: Entire Game Minnesota Phoenix Points 76 64 Bench Scoring 6 14 Field Goals 34/59 24/50 Field Goal % .576 .480 3 Point FG 3/10 4/10 3 Point % .300 .400 Free Throws 5/9 12/17 Free Throw % .556 .706 Rebounds 30 14 Off. Rebounds 7 1 Def. Rebounds 23 13 Blocks 3 6 Steals 4 4 Assists 23 15 Turnovers 6 8 Fouls 10 8

The above stats are from a recent game against the Suns. 6 mn qtrs, Arcade mode. Superstar. Btw, are you saying that these adjustments are helpful or not?

by **joemimic** on Tue Dec 03, 2002 3:51 pm

Toni if you end up finishing all the teams i'd like a crack at that roster, if you ever do send it to joemimic@yahoo.com thanks toni

by **hoopscitylive** on Tue Dec 03, 2002 4:33 pm

Now, FT% is too high for CPU. In the 3 games I've played they are 76/80. So, that will just make it more difficult for the Human, but practice I guess will do the trick. I hope this was just Orlando, a good shooting team, having a one game wonder at 60%. Also, I kinda thing that CPU 3PT % is too high too. Jaques Vaughn decided to nail me with 3 of them, plus Pat Garrity hit one with 3 guys in his face from the corner...with ease...With fixing glue hand interceptions and hopefully the FG% staying in the 40's most of the time, the tweak should still become the best out.

I jacked the FT ratings up a bit (I think the low rating is 65), as this patch was meant for online play, but I am considering changing the range back to 50-99 in the next patch because I am also getting killed at the line by the CPU.

I think you will notice a decrease in 3PT% once I apply the new FG formula. Players will still have the same range (3PT rating), but some will be less effective from that range (like Vaughn), while others will remain effective (Garrity). It will all depend on their real-life 3pt %. The range of ratings will just be spread out more.

by **silly_me** on Tue Dec 03, 2002 4:35 pm

i've downloaded this patch and "watched" a game (the game was CPU vs CPU) and the stats were very realistic. Can this roster be used for the franchise mode?

by **ToniStarks** on Tue Dec 03, 2002 4:44 pm

I'm not sure that I'll be able to finish the quickness adjustments for all teams. The current roster has been edited for testing purposes only, and these tests have been conducted to help with the roster update. If I decide to complete it, I'll make sure to send it. However, I strongly urge you to wait for Mike to complete his next update which will improve the fg% as well as quickness ratings and such.

Btw, I also agree that the ft% is a bit on the high side.

by **silly_me** on Tue Dec 03, 2002 5:28 pm

i've tested this roster and it worked great!

will this patch work in the franchise mode?

by **ToniStarks** on Tue Dec 03, 2002 6:53 pm

will this patch work in the franchise mode?

Sure, I don't see why not. The roster should be even better once the update is released, which is soon. Stay tuned..

by **hoopscitylive** on Wed Dec 04, 2002 2:12 am

It works, but isn't really meant for franchise play. You'll find the first draft class in your franchise will have above average ratings compared to the rest of the league. I will try to fix this in a later patch, but for now I'm concentrating on the gameplay.

by **SUDI 5 29** on Wed Dec 04, 2002 6:28 am

Thanks for the update. I am going to stick with this patch until its perfected or comes damn near close.

Now, about Franchise mode...if you do end up getting to a first draft class, you could edit the rookies manually...each team drafting 2 players...so 58 edits wouldn't take that long... could be worth it if you wanna use these tweaks in Franchise.

Can't wait for the next update, I hope it's soon!

by **SUDI 5 29** on Wed Dec 04, 2002 8:04 am

Played another. I was New Orleans hosting Washington. I swear to god they do everything to make you lose. I SHOULD have easily won this game. But, ofcourse they stop calling fouls on Washington and call a string of atleast 10 possessions in a row down the court, fouls on me, all are somehow shooting fouls...and they make 40 free throws! I lost by only 4 and they made FORTY FREE THROWS. I only attempted 24! What a joke, arrrrgh. They seem to forget Offensive Fouls in the 4th when Larry Hughes starts doing crazy AI Shit that he can't do, and knocks over 2-3 of my guys, and they have the nerve sometimes to call the foul on me! I kicked their ass with some blocks, but ofcourse they got tons of steals, only really 5 legit ones.

Code: Select all: Entire Game Washington New Orleans Points 111 107 Bench Scoring 48 39 Field Goals 33/70 41/80 Field Goal % .471 .512 3 Point FG 5/15 6/21 3 Point % .333 .286 Free Throws 40/49 19/24 Free Throw % .816 .792 Rebounds 28 36 Off. Rebounds 3 11 Def. Rebounds 25 25 Blocks 2 13 Steals 15 5 Assists 22 25 Turnovers 19 22 Fouls 27 31

Again the FG% was a little high, but I don't mind this one...although if you shoot 50%, you should win the game...like a normal game...Baron Davis, David Wesley and Jamaal Magloire all had 5 Fouls with 5 Mins left to go. That's not a very good position to be in...Well I am now 0-4 on Superstar, with this patch, I don't think I ever finished any other games other times on Superstar...I will stick with it for now, unless I can't pull off a win in the new 2-3 days...

by **KB8** on Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:58 am

yo how many min. quarters are you guys using because im playing 5 min. and in 5 games with detroit wallice only has 1 block. Rebecca (Spelling) averages about 3 to 4 blocks a game. What is up with this?

by **SUDI 5 29** on Wed Dec 04, 2002 10:51 am

9 Mins I use since it gives a realistic amount of FG Attempts...about 75-85 per team.

Hoopscitylive new super tweaked roster

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