The miscellaneous "Hopes for Live 2004" thread

[Andrew]

No need to apologise Metsis, the whole idea of this topic is to throw ideas back and forth.

And it just sucks that there are no chemistry modifiers in a team and I'm not sure does a "Jason Kidd"-kind of a player effect the stats for the rest of the team (cause he makes the teams a lot better) and that the fact that the scores are calculated with some straight mathematical formula. You could really turn your team around by trading the bad seed away or vice versa. And when you get point guard like Kidd, well everyone should play better due to the almost 10 assists per game that he brings.

That would be great for simulated performance; if you bring in a better distributor, the rest of the team will in turn produce better offensive stats.

By the way... What happened to Andre Miller's 11.1 apg during 2001-2002 season?

Your guess is as good as mine. He went to a team with more scorers and averaged fewer assists per game. It wasn't a good year for Dre.

I just hate the fact that EA has a set style for players and resolves the stats accordingly.

DSTATS are useful, but a little too restricting. The same goes for the raintgs-to-simulated-performance system. The ideas you mentioned in that paragraph (I didn't want to quote it all ) were interesting. Simulated stats are often too "black and white" - there's no so called "grey area" where a player has slumps or hot streaks, affecting their averages.

[Icebane]

The problem with the alley-oop button in Live 2003 in my experience is that in the event an alley-oop isn't possible, the ball will be passed to the player closest to the basket - which often means a turnover. It should be more like Live 2002 - if the alley-oop isn't possible, hitting the button shouldn't do anything. Or, if the situation allows it, an over the top pass could be made.

Yeah, that NEAREST to the basket thing is silly.. Turnover almost everytime... That over the top pass is a good idea, if the alleyoop option isn't available... Plus the cpu player should be able to control it, not everyone can alley oop, nor feel comfortable alleyooping..

[Metsis]

DSTATS are a good system, but the problem here is that a player is stuck with it. It should be able to change. Or maybe take a created player and put one of the default DSTATS to him, but keep each players DSTATS personal, so if your rookie gets a starting role and turns out to be dominating force (aka solid player) then his DSTATS scoring might go up a little. So that a rookie with might develop into a whole new game. Lots of shooting guards have had to adjust into point guard roles due to their size and this could represent the long term advancement.

Of course there would have to be pretty specific parameters set for this, but I think it could work. There are all sorts of mysterious numbers in the player database and thus these would be only a couple more.

Think of the development of Stephon Marbury from a shoot first pg to a more true point guard. And players do develop in style. And a change of scenery could affect DSTATS and other players playing styles could affect the DSTATS... Team streaks could affect them, with improved play with a winning streak etc. Personal good streaks would affect. Team playing style would effect it too... So here's where the coaches could effect the game straight.

Actually these personal DSTATS could contain alot of data. It should be implemented immediatly. No one expected nothing from Amare immediatly, but the fact is he rose through the ranks in a single month to make everybody watch in awe. This could be done with the personalized DSTATS. And then improving the player ratings at off-season according to how the personalised DSTATS compare to what they were at the start of the season...

Someone please tell me that there's a problem here... There must be! It is all too perfect.

Take this kind of scenario for example:

A guy is playing ok in team A and coming off the bench scoring like 8 ppg and 6 rpg (let's say that this is a pf) with 12 mpg. He gets traded to a new team B that plays more offensive game and this would increase his DSTATS in the scoring apartment, but lower his defensive stats, and all his DSTATS would be lowered with the change of team... Team B ain't doing so well and they change a coach during season and all the players DSTATS get a little lower and with the changing playing style would effect them too... And then the chemistry and changes stuff would improve them with time. I could go on and on, but I believe that the DSTATS could be the key to making it all work more realistically.

[Andrew]

I hate answering long posts with short ones, but I really don't have anything else to add. Updating DSTATS season to season or altering them as the situation changes would be a good solution to the problem.

[Ruff Ryder]

Andrew-The problem with the alley-oop button in Live 2003 in my experience is that in the event an alley-oop isn't possible, the ball will be passed to the player closest to the basket - which often means a turnover. It should be more like Live 2002 - if the alley-oop isn't possible, hitting the button shouldn't do anything. Or, if the situation allows it, an over the top pass could be made.

That is exactly the way it is in the Ps2 version. If the oop isn't possible it wont pass or anything. Only players with low dunk ratings such as Marbury will dunk in the open court off of an alley oop.[/b]

[Andrew]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the PS2 version is the same as the PC version - when an alley-oop isn't possible, the alley-oop button causes you to throw a pass to the player closest to the basket.

[crimson_stallion]

No Andrew you aren't alone on this one either... I hate the fact that it just simulates to your next game. You should be able to take it a day at a time.

Trading deadline would be so much easier to grasp... The thing of it is that when you simulate a lot of games, well you really should do all the trading at the start of the season. And it just sucks that there are no chemistry modifiers in a team and I'm not sure does a "Jason Kidd"-kind of a player effect the stats for the rest of the team (cause he makes the teams a lot better) and that the fact that the scores are calculated with some straight mathematical formula. You could really turn your team around by trading the bad seed away or vice versa. And when you get point guard like Kidd, well everyone should play better due to the almost 10 assists per game that he brings. (By the way... What happened to Andre Miller's 11.1 apg during 2001-2002 season?) And teams do go on streaks and sometimes beat better teams.

One thing I hate too... I'm playing season and I have a center that dunks through everyone and everything and just totally dominates the paint. He's like Shaq the early years, only better. I have played some games from the start of the season and he's averaging like 38 points, but if I simulate the rest of the season you can't tell that he had such a good start even with 28 games per season. He's still going to end up with 11 ppg and rpg as the normal centers do. And that just sucks... And the fact that the real stats aren't carried over to the next season infuriates me too, but you see some simulated stats saved there.

Let me say it again to point out that there is no effect with my games... Many of you might think that the good start fades into the mass, but the fact is that he ends up with "almost" the same stats if I play the start or don't. There might be some +-.5 difference in the scores.

I just hate the fact that EA has a set style for players and resolves the stats accordingly. Now this is a thing that could be used to bring out the rookies more. Say Amare starts on the bench with a normal bech pf settings. 7 ppg, 5 rpg etc. as averages and then when he gets the starting role, his status would be changed to an all-star with basic scoring at 15 per game and 8 rebounds. I have actually toyed with this kind of a model for a while now and I think it could work. Like you take playing style of a position and make a default set of scores for that and then modify the scores according to the players own stats. Like T-Mac with his superior offense would get to that 30+ game almost against anyone, but sometimes he would score only 20+ points and sometimes 40+, but I have to figure out the math to do that on a more consistent basis. Cause I don't want to see T-Mac scoring 10 points just because he's going against a superior defender.

Sorry for the long and digressing post...

Some good ideas there no doubt the current system definately has to go. The system wouldnt ahve to be perfect, as long as it was decent.

[crimson_stallion]

I am very well aware that this is a discussion for the future and will definitely not be in Live 2004. The same as my talks about refs and complaining to them.

Direct Pass is a very good system and it guarantees that you pass the ball to a certain individual.

About Sliders... Usually sliders control the frequency of an incident and speed of certain things if NHL sliders are any sort of comparison. User control slider wouldn't be that useful. What if you wanted to turn like shooting on and passing off and you didn't have that kind of a setting in the slider... There are lots of things that come into mind. But the sliders were an incredible bonus in NHL series and hopefully will do the same for Live. The only problem is with playing online with one settings that may vary from your own quite a bit.

Don't know about the freestyle systems hardness to handle. Really haven't had a chance to try it out. I ain't never going to buy a pad to play Live games. So it wasn't hard to master at all. I'm sure it is a very good system, but the programmers should make it so that it would work well with the keyboard too and not just with consoles and pads and this goes for the user interface too.

The idea was basically to have a slider with maybe 6 positions:
full user control
shooting and dribbling control
shoting and passing control
passing and dribbling contro
passign control only
dribbling control only
shooting control only
full cpu control.

it would probably be hard to implement but that was something like what i had in mind.

[Ruff Ryder]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the PS2 version is the same as the PC version - when an alley-oop isn't possible, the alley-oop button causes you to throw a pass to the player closest to the basket.

In the Ps version there is another button for passing to the player closest to the basket. It's just tapping the direct pass button once.

[Andrew]

So it is. My mistake.

[Andrew]

I've got a feeling I'm covering old ground with this one, but I'll make this post nevertheless.

Transactions

Hopefully the Offseason won't be as linear. For example, after the lottery and draft free agency could be continuous, with trading taking place in between. I think it's also necessary to be able to waive players during the draft - or failing that, make it so that rookies are not automatically signed. You shouldn't have to forfeit your pick because you do not have an available roster slot. And if you want to get fancy, perhaps draft rights could be traded the same as draft picks.

Similarly, it would great if you could make trades that did not meet the requirement of a maximum 15 players - however, you could waive a player after the trade is complete. This way, extra players could be included to make the trade work under the cap. You could then choose to waive players to reduce the number of players on your roster to 15.

Perhaps when making transactions in the offseason you could also have a roster of more than 15 players - however, you must trim the roster to 12 active and 3 inactive players before you can start the next season.

[crimson_stallion]

I just bought NBA 2K3 on X-box yesterday. After reading the manual and having a few quick plays of the game, I have com to realise something. Of all of the recommendations i have posted on here, and all of the recommendations i have SEEN posted on here, it has almost all of them. I never expected the game to be so good realism wise, and feature wise.

It has a better simulation engine for simulated games (i.e. all bench players dotn play 9 minutes each) it has coach trading and signing (which actually affects your game) it has the ability to set your teams play style (offensive, defendsive, post up game, perimiter game, etc) it has more realistic animations and moves, and generally almost all of the features. The trading blok feature is great, and ive read it allows trading for draft picks also (in the manual). The street ball dfeature allows 2, 3, 4 or 5 a-side and has several different courts, every game court looks realistic, even the mascotts are animated and fully 3D.

The commentary is better then i thogth possible on a computer game, and has the type of stuff that i would not bring into a forum, because id consider it unrealistic to implement (i.e heavilly describes the faults and advantages of each team, player streaks, player abilities, etc).

My only gripes with the game so far are:
1) relatively average graphics (althouth animations are near perfect)
2) confusing interface which takes some times to get used to

Another great feature is the create a player, which allows unbelievable levels of adjustment in terma of appearance, ratings, and play style. Also, there are a very large amount of gameplay sliders (tempo, game speed, foul rates, etc).

Live has very few of these things, and to be honest this game with live graphics would be damn good..

[Goodz]

It has a better simulation engine for simulated games (i.e. all bench players dotn play 9 minutes each)

the simulation engine is good but at the end of the season it really pisses me off. i created some of the top rookies in this years draft and LeBron averaged 21 ppg, 9 rpg, and 9 apg so im thinkin that he should win the rookie of the year award for sure. but who happens to win it? T.J Ford who averaged 18 ppg and 14 apg. another thing that i have a problem with is, (if you havnt noticed yet just wait for the second season) there are no secondary positions so when the spurs signed jermain o'neal, instead of having a dangerous duo of him and duncan, he comes off the bench and some crappy created rookie is starting at center. i mean, its common sense.

it has coach trading and signing (which actually affects your game)

this feature is my favourite because it actually does help your team. the coachs skill is split up into three categories: offense, defense and teaching which are split up into three ratings:poor, average, good, or master.
this is perfect because if you feel your team needs to work on their D then get a defensive coach. or if you have a rookie prospect, get a master teacher who can up his rating during off season training (which IS in the game)

it has the ability to set your teams play style (offensive, defendsive, post up game, perimiter game, etc)

this is only aplies to your team though, you can pick the two top players you want your offense to run through or you can just leave one of both on auto. but for the cpu teams the player with a better offensive rating in certain areas will be the star. for instance, in my experience with the game, facing the pacers is unrealistic because everysingle game, reggie just shoots threes and some how dominates inside and jermaine will get 15 boards and only take 2 shot attempts in the whole game. in 2k3 cpu teams pretty much use their guards for everything.

The commentary is better then i thogth possible on a computer game

im gonna have to disagree with you here. if you miss a shot with a shooter such as carter they will say "the other team is lucky that didnt go in, usually he's 99% in." or somthing like that but then the next three you shoot they'll say "carter saw that he had an average defender on him but he's just and average shooter" the commentators contradict themselves.

Live has very few of these things, and to be honest this game with live graphics would be damn good..

i see what you mean. live could use alley-layups, off ballance shots (if your right side is facing the basket, you wont just jump and turn in mid air for a perfectly straight jump shot, instead the player will jump straight up from his position and let it go (kinda like Dirk), better looking turn around jumpers, and a much better post game e.g it needs the spin off turn around jumper that duncan and k.g have. all of these things would make Live king for sure. but there are certaing things that live kills 2k3 in... like dunks... ALL of 2k3's dunks are just before the semi circle (charge line) in the key, and nothing further. players will take off from just after the freethrow line and lay it in while clearly being high enough to slam it. but yet there are no free throw dunks. in my opinion, most of 2k3's dunks are garbage. sometimes they dont even slam when they are on a fast break just because of they're rating. mamadou n'dyai was on a fast break (why the hell he was, dont ask ) and got to the basket with no defender, here it comes a simple 3 feet from the net, its bound to be a power jam (7 feet tall, low ratings but 7 FEET TALL MAN) what does he do??? HE FADES AWAY!!! thats pathetic. hope live can capitalize on all the mistakes both games have made.

(sorry for the long post....got alot of time on my hands haha)

[Ceasar121]

I think the passing shoulf be controlled by a PassPkg. The higher a players rating, the more passes he can perform. This could implement a playmaker rating, so that JKidd makes an impossible bounce pass on the fast break, Tim Duncan makes an overhead pass(while completely stopped), there are not nearly enough passes with movement. Players stop, then pass way too often. The higher the playmaker rating is, the more effective that the player is dealing with situation where there is a play that could be made(i.e. JKidd beaming one to KMart, while Dikembe trying this pass results in a turnover.) This could also limit the other teams fastbreak, because a player that is not a playmaker will try to take advantage of these situations less often.

[Ruff Ryder]

Sorry to change the subject, but am i the only one who thinks the cutscenes make the game even more unrealistic? They blur the backround and it just doesn't make the game look realistic.

[DaManFromGapo]

not really...it is actually a welcome addition to the game. It's kinda cool seeing some comedy in the game (i have to agree with andrew that some eager fan wants an autograph from Ethmios Rentzias is funny!) But i wish that they would improve the features of the game (dynasty, practice, freestyle) more than improving the cutscenes...

[Andrew]

That's what bothers me about the cutscenes (that and the fact you can't turn them off completely). It's one of my few petty complaints about the game, the "courtside comedy" cutscenes. Needless to say, it's not a huge complaint, I don't really care about them that much, but if you put me on the spot and asked me if I would prefer more serious cutscenes over the humourous ones, I would say yes.

But if the gameplay's realistic, I'm willing to accept there's a fan who wants Efthimos Rentzias' autograph.

[crimson_stallion]

It has a better simulation engine for simulated games (i.e. all bench players dotn play 9 minutes each)

the simulation engine is good but at the end of the season it really pisses me off. i created some of the top rookies in this years draft and LeBron averaged 21 ppg, 9 rpg, and 9 apg so im thinkin that he should win the rookie of the year award for sure. but who happens to win it? T.J Ford who averaged 18 ppg and 14 apg. another thing that i have a problem with is, (if you havnt noticed yet just wait for the second season) there are no secondary positions so when the spurs signed jermain o'neal, instead of having a dangerous duo of him and duncan, he comes off the bench and some crappy created rookie is starting at center. i mean, its common sense.

it has coach trading and signing (which actually affects your game)

this feature is my favourite because it actually does help your team. the coachs skill is split up into three categories: offense, defense and teaching which are split up into three ratings:poor, average, good, or master.
this is perfect because if you feel your team needs to work on their D then get a defensive coach. or if you have a rookie prospect, get a master teacher who can up his rating during off season training (which IS in the game)

it has the ability to set your teams play style (offensive, defendsive, post up game, perimiter game, etc)

this is only aplies to your team though, you can pick the two top players you want your offense to run through or you can just leave one of both on auto. but for the cpu teams the player with a better offensive rating in certain areas will be the star. for instance, in my experience with the game, facing the pacers is unrealistic because everysingle game, reggie just shoots threes and some how dominates inside and jermaine will get 15 boards and only take 2 shot attempts in the whole game. in 2k3 cpu teams pretty much use their guards for everything.

The commentary is better then i thogth possible on a computer game

im gonna have to disagree with you here. if you miss a shot with a shooter such as carter they will say "the other team is lucky that didnt go in, usually he's 99% in." or somthing like that but then the next three you shoot they'll say "carter saw that he had an average defender on him but he's just and average shooter" the commentators contradict themselves.

Live has very few of these things, and to be honest this game with live graphics would be damn good..

i see what you mean. live could use alley-layups, off ballance shots (if your right side is facing the basket, you wont just jump and turn in mid air for a perfectly straight jump shot, instead the player will jump straight up from his position and let it go (kinda like Dirk), better looking turn around jumpers, and a much better post game e.g it needs the spin off turn around jumper that duncan and k.g have. all of these things would make Live king for sure. but there are certaing things that live kills 2k3 in... like dunks... ALL of 2k3's dunks are just before the semi circle (charge line) in the key, and nothing further. players will take off from just after the freethrow line and lay it in while clearly being high enough to slam it. but yet there are no free throw dunks. in my opinion, most of 2k3's dunks are garbage. sometimes they dont even slam when they are on a fast break just because of they're rating. mamadou n'dyai was on a fast break (why the hell he was, dont ask ) and got to the basket with no defender, here it comes a simple 3 feet from the net, its bound to be a power jam (7 feet tall, low ratings but 7 FEET TALL MAN) what does he do??? HE FADES AWAY!!! thats pathetic. hope live can capitalize on all the mistakes both games have made.

(sorry for the long post....got alot of time on my hands haha)

you're right there. After spending some more time on it i have uncovered a few annoying traits. It annoys me also that almost all players will dunk on a fast break (such as AI, j kidd, wagner). These guys usually dot dunk in a game (maybe occasionally) but they seem to pretyt much always dunk when on a fast break. the crossover annoys me as it is hard to pull off near teh baseline wihtout being called out of bounds, and even in played games, guys like rasheed tend to get 20 rebounds and u just cant fight them for it. Brad miller for me only got about 4 or 5 boards agaisnt the blazers beacuse of it. 3 point shoots seems to have a tendancy to just not go in. In practice they fall, but in th egame wide oen treys on pro difficulty just bounce out unless you have a near perect 3pt shooter. the dunk look quite simplistic, but I think they add more realism. Fast break dunks tend to be a one handed stuff or a two handed power dunk, and in most cases this is pretty lifelike (as opposed to reverse jams and behind the back dunks from any decent dunker in live). Commentary does at times contradict itself, but on the whole i think it's alot better then live. Graphics are definately a downside. Shaq looks like a guy in a bear suit, faces arent very photogenic and hair styles are at times odd. Generally in terms of realism I think its quite good. Dont like the free throw shooting system all that much...

Big plus is that i find the the AI is abit dumber on lower skill elvels. Although shots are made tougher, the D also seems to stick on you and play smarter, which i like. From now on i think ill get 2k3 on xbox, adn live on pc. That way you cant go wrong

[Metsis]

About off-season... This just popped up into my mind. I was rummaging through espn's NBA section.

They really should bring back the calendar user interface and instead of taking the game away from the calendar at the start of the play-offs. (Okay the play-off tree would be nice to see etc.) But with the play-offs over, you should be returned to the normal calendar view and you could simulate the summer as normal.

You would have certain dates marked down like: The rookie draft, free agent "open market day", the day free agents can start signing contracts, summer league tournaments, training camp and the season would just continue straight off from there. Maybe update the player ratings at the end of the play-offs as it is done now.

Then make options to offer contract extensions when ever you want and the ability to through money at players. Give out the mid-level exception. Ability to give an offer sheet to a free agent. And the free agents would decide (by some factors) where they will sign.

Again this would make it feel more real and you could do some things when you wanted them to. You should also be able to have more then 15 players on your roster, but would have to waive players down to 15 at the start of the training camp. Another cool feature would be the ability to send rookies to train in europe or NBDL or such... It would be sweet.

There should also be the possibility to simulate the off-season and it would pretty much work the way it does now. First the resign players, then rookie draft, offer sheets to free agents, where the FA's will sign and then start of the season.

This way you could simulate the off-season as you see fit and do things when you want to.

Just an idea... This auto-simulation has to go.

[Colin]

Yet another good idea from metsis. You could have that during the off-season and also have a free agent offer screen, it would have a list of all the free agents with two columns to the side. One for the length of the contract you've offered, and one for the ammount you've offered. You'd also be able to toggle through other teams and see what they're offering, or to possibly add more realism, see around what they're offering like a "highly paid 6 year deal." Than on the day that signing starts, the free agent goes to the best situation based on, money, game time, chance for winning. I don't think Jermaine O-neal would want to go to a team with Shaq and Tim Duncan because he would get no time, he might be getting the maximum and would definitly win a championship, but he would be a 6th man. Then there will be free agents that had no offers or haven't decided that you could still go after. And if they insist on keeping the salary.ini file than there would be no more of those 1 year minimum contracts.

[Ruff Ryder]

I think they should include NBDL players. Most of the Free Agents in NBA Live that are signed at the beginning of the season get worse. You should be able to work out NBDL players and other free agents. Plus, in the off-season the freeagents always wants too much. Especially players like Jonathan Bender. For example he is playing for somethin like 57k points. The next year, even though he'll probably come off the bench he wants 200+ thousand points per year. Some players(above 75 rated) should be happy with the minimum or players whose ratings have slipped shouldn't want anymore than they get offered.

[Andrew]

They really should bring back the calendar user interface and instead of taking the game away from the calendar at the start of the play-offs. (Okay the play-off tree would be nice to see etc.) But with the play-offs over, you should be returned to the normal calendar view and you could simulate the summer as normal.

You would have certain dates marked down like: The rookie draft, free agent "open market day", the day free agents can start signing contracts, summer league tournaments, training camp and the season would just continue straight off from there. Maybe update the player ratings at the end of the play-offs as it is done now.

Then make options to offer contract extensions when ever you want and the ability to through money at players. Give out the mid-level exception. Ability to give an offer sheet to a free agent. And the free agents would decide (by some factors) where they will sign.

An excellent idea! Being able to simulate day to day during the offseason would allow for on-going "negotiations" with free agents - perhaps you could even get caught up in bidding wars over coveted free agents. It would keep going until the player finally decides on an offer.

[nikolass127]

*I would like to see some invented Scenarios ie. MIA vs. DAL 4th qtr, 10 sec. You are the Mavs and u are down by 4. Or create your own scenario

*Classics Games

*I would like to draft some international players and leave the in Europe or other country playing for some years. Then when I think he can play in the NBA i sign a contract.

*Trading Draft Picks with Protection ie. I trade Eddie Jones And Caron Butler for Stojacovich and the First Round Pick of Sac but Top 10 protected

*I would like to see some Nationals Teams, but that is a dream I have

[TRUball]

I would like to see some invented Scenarios ie. MIA vs. DAL 4th qtr, 10 sec. You are the Mavs and u are down by 4. Or create your own scenario

Don't quite get what you mean here? do u mean like you just play these little games or something?

*Classics Games

I like this idea, having classic games would be fun, and it should be made with all the old players acually look there age,(not running very fast or maybe not running at all, lol)

*I would like to draft some international players and leave the in Europe or other country playing for some years. Then when I think he can play in the NBA i sign a contract.

I really like this, because than when you are leaving the player there he is getting better and better. Like during the free agent part in the offseason, a window could pop up saying the players stats has rose considerably, rose a little bit, stayed the same, isn't as good anymore depending on his work ethic(if they put that in) and than asking if you want to sign him.

*Trading Draft Picks with Protection ie. I trade Eddie Jones And Caron Butler for Stojacovich and the First Round Pick of Sac but Top 10 protected

i like this than things like what happened to memphis won't happen getting the 2nd over all pic and than having to give it away all because of otis thrope

*I would like to see some Nationals Teams, but that is a dream I have

...

[sixerfan03]

*I would like to see some invented Scenarios ie. MIA vs. DAL 4th qtr, 10 sec. You are the Mavs and u are down by 4. Or create your own scenario

Like Madden. You can create a situation. For example, I like to play Elway's "drive". I use the the currect teams, and I set up the 98 yard drive with the correct score and time.