Paid mods suck

[positive_comment_guy]

It really sucks to see all the former prolific modders put up their mods for compensation. Everyone making $100 or so that doesn’t change much of anything but completely dismantles the modding community.

I personally won’t buy any mods since it looks silly to have a modded version with updated textures next to some plain OOB player model. The contrast of this is worse than just not having mods at all.


If/when we have the ability to use custom cyberface numbers there’s no chance I’ll participate in making hundreds of draft class assets again.


Everyone is free to decide what to do with their time and want compensation but I’m also free to say it sucks and you can keep your horse armor.

[bikerjimuk]

Yep, complete BS in my book but I get slagged for saying so!

[Uncle Drew]

Everybody is money-hungry now. I'll never pay for mods.

[Slata]

It really sucks to see all the former prolific modders put up their mods for compensation. Everyone making $100 or so that doesn’t change much of anything but completely dismantles the modding community.

I personally won’t buy any mods since it looks silly to have a modded version with updated textures next to some plain OOB player model. The contrast of this is worse than just not having mods at all.


If/when we have the ability to use custom cyberface numbers there’s no chance I’ll participate in making hundreds of draft class assets again.


Everyone is free to decide what to do with their time and want compensation but I’m also free to say it sucks and you can keep your horse armor.

[TheGeneral6]

One might suggest that if the modder is that hard up for cash they're better off getting a second job than spending many hours of their day doing this work.

The issues with NBA 2K and VC is bad enough -- we don't need to be adding to that as a community ourselves.

[Eckinator]

I agree

[TGsoGood]

It's only been about 1 month that this gen has been on PC. Give it some time. There are still many free mods. I tried convincing people for a few years now to make some mods and share as they see fit. I understand it may not be an option for everyone. There are no paid mods here, we should do what we can to uphold spaces like NLSC if that is what is valued.

Make mods, make tutorials, help keep track of resources. We can all do a little to help each other.
Help to cultivate and promote the type of community you want to see if you can.
The more we share info, the more you will see free mods.

[Dee4Three]

Many valid complaints and frustrations in here.

I agree with The Goods, and also want to point out that there have been a lot of great FREE mods already released for NBA 2K25, and still many released for past games, and that will only continue. There are plenty of people in the modding community, which you can see by the many threads here on the NLSC, that understand the importance of free mods. People that understand that charging for mods is not only against the NLSC rules, but is also bad for the community.

I'll say it again here, if we allowed people to charge for mods, the community would have folded a long time ago. Not only that, the NLSC would have been shut down. From my experience with modding, all the best mods I have used have been free. The big roster projects (Which often house the best CF's, courts, presentation, etc), have mostly been made accessible at no cost, and it's been that way for a very long time. There are also some veterans still around releasing free work, and some new modders as well. We appreciate all of you.

Donation links are fine, and if you like a modders work, you could always donate to them.

But yes. be patient, more great mods will be created and released for free. Even with all the people selling their mods, it hasn't crippled the NLSC community, and people are still able to download some great work. Also, I highly recommend getting involved in the community (To tgsogoods point). Start getting involved in the threads, start throwing support at these awesome modders, maybe start sharing some gameplay/screenshots/stories, get involved with the NLSC Discord, etc.

I think this is a great thread. This is a known problem, but it's important for everybody to have a place to voice their concerns.

[Manni Live]

I agree, it hurts to see what the modding community has become. This used to be a place where knowledge was shared and people would mod just for the fun of it.

To some it has become a complete business, feeling that they need to be compensated for each and every single mod they put out. Not only are mods are behind a paywall but information as well.

[cujomatty]

The EA FC(Fifa) community is way outta control. If nba turns out this way as it seems like it's headed, I'm out.

I respect people can do what they want and it's not really my place to judge anyone's situation but I'll never ever charge for a mod.

1. It's a hobby and I refuse to have it feel like a job.

2. I want everyone to enjoy my mods.

3. It's really flirting with legality issues. I have no legal right to make a Coca Cola dorna and profit off it.

[Andrew]

I'm guessing people know how I feel about it: https://www.nba-live.com/mto-mods-for-f ... oney-down/

To that point, I just want to co-sign the general sentiment, and specifically what TG and Dee said. We need to foster that community spirit, and dedication to freely available mods and modding knowledge.

[blackthorne2001]

yeah paid mods is sucks i miss the old modders they mod the game for a hobby not for the money it seems that if a modders want a paid mod it's better for you to get a job.

[Boff2k]

Ignore paid mods and just get the free ones. Simple as...I also hate putting email in just so I can download a damn mod. F that....

[49uncfan]

The thing that makes it worse is 5-10 mods cost more then the complete game. That is huge problem as well.

[Shuajota]

I've been part of this community for 10 years, and I've lost count of the hours I've invested in creating content, which I've always shared for free. Just last year, I shared what I consider my best project to date, PCBasket 2K24. It was a project that took more than a year of work, considering the database and all the artwork I added, including over 100 cyberfaces, which (I think not everyone is aware of this) require many hours of work, sometimes even days for a single player. That said, and being one of the few modders who has kept this "tradition" going for so long, I also understand the other side. Everyone is free (and it's completely understandable) to put a price on their time and work. After all, the plugin needed to create cyberfaces this year is paid. In other words, we modders are the first ones who have to pay to even start creating content. I understand and respect the complaints, but a modder who creates a cyberface could perfectly well use it for personal purposes, and at least by sharing it, they’re making it available to others. It's up to you to decide whether or not to support that work. In the end, we have to remember that it's a "handcrafted" effort where that person has invested money in the tool and then countless hours into creating the product.

We can't compare a product created by one person at home with a product from a multimillion-dollar company that sells millions of copies worldwide. In the end, we're talking about an "unique and exclusive" piece of work. Does a movie director not charge for their new movie? We could say, "Wow! Five movies cost as much as a Blu-ray player." Or does an author not get paid for their new novel? We could say, "Buying five books costs as much as an Amazon Kindle." At the end of the day, it's the same. To play a game, you need a console, and to play with a "mod," you need the game. What we can't do is suggest that if someone needs money, they should go get a job, when most already have jobs, are parents, etc. Life is very expensive right now, and if someone wants to offer a service for a price, I'll say again that they have every right to do so. It's up to you to decide whether to buy it or not, but expecting everything to be free isn't reasonable either. And this is coming from someone who has shared absolutely everything for free for almost a decade.

That being said, on my website, you'll always find free mods, because free mods will continue to exist. At least on my part, I’ll keep sharing things like that, although some will be exclusive. As for donations, I can assure you that in almost a decade, I've received maybe five donations at most, so believe me when I say I haven't done this for the money. I could have easily put a price on everything, but in some way, I wanted to keep the essence I experienced when I first started. However, it's also true that now there are platforms that didn’t exist before, which help creators have some incentive, especially since we spend an insane amount of time in front of the PC.

I've done a lot for this community, and I'll continue to do so as much as I can. I'll keep sharing all the work I do, as well as tutorials so that you can try it yourselves. Because it's also true that all the tools to create mods are available to everyone.

[vincemeister55]

I too, dont have a problem with modders selling their mods. I mean its their time and skills spent. But what irks people in this forum is probably the fact that some modders will release 1 or a couple of average free mods, and then advertise on their mod thread their other superb work for a fee. NLSC has always been a community that hosted free-of-charge mods, but to be used as a platform for modders selling their stuff will certainly rub the old heads the wrong way from this community.

[wired71]

I've been part of this community for 10 years, and I've lost count of the hours I've invested in creating content, which I've always shared for free. Just last year, I shared what I consider my best project to date, PCBasket 2K24. It was a project that took more than a year of work, considering the database and all the artwork I added, including over 100 cyberfaces, which (I think not everyone is aware of this) require many hours of work, sometimes even days for a single player. That said, and being one of the few modders who has kept this "tradition" going for so long, I also understand the other side. Everyone is free (and it's completely understandable) to put a price on their time and work. After all, the plugin needed to create cyberfaces this year is paid. In other words, we modders are the first ones who have to pay to even start creating content. I understand and respect the complaints, but a modder who creates a cyberface could perfectly well use it for personal purposes, and at least by sharing it, they’re making it available to others. It's up to you to decide whether or not to support that work. In the end, we have to remember that it's a "handcrafted" effort where that person has invested money in the tool and then countless hours into creating the product.

We can't compare a product created by one person at home with a product from a multimillion-dollar company that sells millions of copies worldwide. In the end, we're talking about an "unique and exclusive" piece of work. Does a movie director not charge for their new movie? We could say, "Wow! Five movies cost as much as a Blu-ray player." Or does an author not get paid for their new novel? We could say, "Buying five books costs as much as an Amazon Kindle." At the end of the day, it's the same. To play a game, you need a console, and to play with a "mod," you need the game. What we can't do is suggest that if someone needs money, they should go get a job, when most already have jobs, are parents, etc. Life is very expensive right now, and if someone wants to offer a service for a price, I'll say again that they have every right to do so. It's up to you to decide whether to buy it or not, but expecting everything to be free isn't reasonable either. And this is coming from someone who has shared absolutely everything for free for almost a decade.

That being said, on my website, you'll always find free mods, because free mods will continue to exist. At least on my part, I’ll keep sharing things like that, although some will be exclusive. As for donations, I can assure you that in almost a decade, I've received maybe five donations at most, so believe me when I say I haven't done this for the money. I could have easily put a price on everything, but in some way, I wanted to keep the essence I experienced when I first started. However, it's also true that now there are platforms that didn’t exist before, which help creators have some incentive, especially since we spend an insane amount of time in front of the PC.

I've done a lot for this community, and I'll continue to do so as much as I can. I'll keep sharing all the work I do, as well as tutorials so that you can try it yourselves. Because it's also true that all the tools to create mods are available to everyone.

And this sir is why you are beloved by this community and certainly by me!

[PettyPaulPierce]

Nah this is hilarious, y'all are grown men acting like self-entitled cry-babies. If you don't like it - don't buy it, and get free ones. You are not entitled to our time and effort, and you have no idea what goes into creating a quality cyberface. Y'all keep stressing community this community that, the only people who benefit in the community are people who download mods. Like Shuajota said as well, no one supports free mod creators. I've made free mods for years and i've had one person who ever donated a buck to me. Had i not started to make a living off of modding i would've been in an office somewhere and i would've stopped modding long ago, so y'all wouldn't get shit from me free or paid. This way at least the people who respect and appreciate my work can get it, and those are the ones i care about, as opposed to leeches who just want shit for free. Shit is pathetic honestly, go and learn how to mod yourself instead of ranting about people making a buck off of honest work.

[ernel2014]

"PettyPaulPierce, I respect what you're saying, but it's still a complete crock of shit. You bring up people complaining about the buying mods for the game, but did you make the game? No, you didn’t. All people are saying is that we should all contribute to creating content for the game for free. At this rate, we’re going to have to buy the game first at $70, then pay for mods, which could end up costing $400. Man, shut that shit down.

I used to mod games for free and shared all the knowledge I had so people could enjoy it. Hell I still do. Plus, I’m a full-time software engineer and a graphic designer on side for a few publishing companies. You see, this is exactly why the world is fucked up, people’s trash way of thinking. But you know what, it’s time for me to woosah. But before I do, I'll leave a few last thoughts.

One last thought: Again, I respect your work, just not the message. And by the way, why would you charge $3 for a mod, but then jack the price up to $6 when you get your site up? Shouldn’t you honor your original price? When I asked about the mod, it was $3, but now it’s going up to $6? That’s like 2K saying I can buy the game for $0, then change the price at the last minute to $100 when they launch a new site. Come on, man.

One last last thought: Mods should be free. But if you’re going to charge people, keep it cheap like $2-3 for good mods not that "fuck shit" or the ones you’ll steal off Chinese sites. We all lose time when we mod, but the joy comes from other people using the mods. If you’re in it just for the money, you’re wasting your damn time. You can comment if you want—I don’t give a fuck."

One last last last thought: I am not angry, nor how did you put it, a "self-entitled cry-baby" I have kids partner, so I don't have time for mind games. I do this shit for fun and to relieve stress, Keeping it 100, I didnt have to say shit today but felt the need to. Again.you can comment if you want, I don't give a fuck.

One last last last last thought: Again, I respect your work, it looks great. TSsoGood, I apologise bro didnt mean to go off. You one of the legends of the game. Positive_comment_guy, I apologize did mean to hijack your post.


PettyPaulPierce. I didn't mean no harm, I'll still get a few mods from you like that "Pistol Pete" its but if you want to take it like that I don't give a fuck.

[PettyPaulPierce]

You don't have to buy anything my guy, buy the game, play with default faces, or free mods, and pipe down lmao y'all are just talking in loops and making zero sense. BTW i've never in my life stolen a mod off Chinese sites, or any site for that matter, i've only had my work stolen by people in the community that you want me to bless with free shit. And yes i am in this for the money, and no i am not wasting my time. Been living off of modding for the past 2 years, but i guess i should go rot in an office making some millionaire richer so that random people who never did anything for me could have free cyberfaces (btw the people who actually did do shit for me never had to pay a dime for my work). This fake moralist crap is getting old, why don't you make designs for publishing companies for free? I found a way to capitalize on my talent and hours and hours of hard work, just like anybody else with a job, you don't have to respect that if you don't want to, that's your right. What is not your right, however, is to tell me what i should do with my time and how much i should charge for my work. The entitlement is crazy.

[ernel2014]

Me, fake morals. I am who I am. I dont need to fake anything. But you know what, I'm going to end this shit here before I take this to far. Mr. PPP

[Andrew]

It would seem this is a more contentious issue than I expected, though that doesn't mean we can throw civility out the window here. Honestly, it's a bit rich to chide other people for not acting their age while throwing around childish insults. We can do without that. I'll also point out that there are modders in this topic who have been part of the NLSC for decades, so to classify anyone who doesn't support paid mods as "entitled" and clueless about what goes into modding is simply condescending and disingenuous.

As far as it being "honest work", though, charging for mods is profiting off of intellectual property and likeness that we don't own. Nothing really honest about that! All else aside, one of the main reasons we don't allow charging for mods in our community is to avoid drawing any unwanted attention, and equally undesirable legal action. We have had some people receive some cease & desists in recent years, and some years back a French league mod had to be heavily altered/fictionalised because the league objected to its intellectual property being used thusly. And they weren't even looking to charge for it! The modder didn't want the headache though, and neither did we.

Furthermore, even if we want to argue that those entities and people are super wealthy compared to us working schmoes, screw the system and all that...well, that still doesn't change the legality of the matter. Moreover, we shouldn't want to be like them. We rightfully criticise Visual Concepts and Take-Two for heavily monetising their games and being predatory towards us gamers. Surely, we should want to be better than that.

Ultimately, no one is forced to mod. If it isn't worth your time and effort, by all means don't do it. But if we're talking about compensation, are the people who facilitated the ability to create and share mods being compensated as well? Do the people creating tools get a cut? Does a portion go to the license holders, the players who are withholding their likeness because of inadequate offers from Take-Two? Are reference images sourced from Getty being appropriately paid for and licensed? Do the platforms where mods are being shared get a cut for providing the bandwidth and other resources, as well as any labour such as technical support and mediating disputes over payment?

To that point, we have monthly hosting costs that ultimately fall on me. I also have to put in time around the site, and have done for 23 years now. Should we therefore be allowed to charge a registration or subscription fee for people to be part of the community, and paywall our content and other facilities? I mean, our time and effort is valuable, too, right? It would therefore only be fair to charge to cover our costs, at the very least. We're not going to do that, but surely it would be fair if we did?

Or should everything that modders benefit from be free, while modders charge for their work and make a 100% profit? That doesn't sound like a fair business model or honest work to me. Frankly, that sounds rather entitled. I understand wanting to be compensated for your time and effort, but that goes hand-in-hand with compensating others fairly as well. And that doesn't ever seem to happen, so the sentiment rings hollow.

Of course, people are going to do what they're going to do. We can only set the rules and policies for our site and community, and people are free to do what they like elsewhere. If that's how you truly feel about us, that we're entitled cry-babies with no valid point of view and we're terribly unfair, then I guess we've unfortunately reached a parting of the ways. So be it and best of luck if that's the case, but we're sticking to the approach that has kept us out of trouble and resulted in a ton of awesome mods and resources over the years.

[Dee4Three]

I agree with Andrew.

Also, as I stated prior, the NLSC would have been shut down a long time ago if we allowed paid mods. Not only would it have killed the community, but the site would have been contested consistently, to the point where it would be shut down or forcefully taken down.

I think the language used, the insults, etc... are completely uncalled for, and terrible for anybody looking in on these forums. And, it's clear that the big picture is being missed here as it relates to how paid mods can and do negatively impact this community.

If conversation can't take place in here without that language, the insults, etc. I will absolutely lock this thread down. We need to be better than that.

This thread was a great idea as long as the conversation stayed civil and appropriate. It's getting out of hand now.

[ernel2014]

Mr Dee4Three and Andrew, I apologize for the language and the insults. I was just trying to say that we all benefit when we share our content without any paywalls attached.

[PettyPaulPierce]

How about you guys worry about the legality of your own website and leave my business and my matters to me. I'm not hurting anybody and i'm not endangering your website or the community in any way. If 2k wanted me gone they would've gotten rid of me long ago. The rest of the drivel is not even worth responding to tbh, do graphic designers pay Adobe every time they do a graphic design? Do you pay Nvidia every time you render a video? Like wtf are you even talking about lmao i've bought the game and the assets that come with it and i am selling modifications, that i have made, to other people who have also bought the game and said assets. I've had a bunch of people who already own 2k on consoles tell me they got a PC version too because they saw my mods, and they certainly didn't see it on your website, but rather on my instagram which is something i've built for myself. If anything, what i do boosts 2k's sales, and if you think they have a problem with what i'm doing you're seriously stuck in the stone age. They literally made a built-in mods folder for us ffs.
Lastly, anyone who makes tools is free to charge whatever they want for it too. The person who made creating cyberfaces possible this year was kind enough to offer to share his tool with me for free, and for that can get my cyberfaces for free whenever they ask. Anybody in the community who was ever cool with me knows i'll always pay them back, and treat them with respect, it's only dudes who i've had zero contact or connection with who think i'm greedy and a criminal or whatever you're insinuating. Nobody hangs around this website anymore so you guys can have your echo chamber here, and as for others, come to 2Konnect and ask the members what their opinion of me is and what they think of doing business with me. Never left a customer unsatisfied, never scammed, or stole from anybody. Y'all grown men scared of some big bad words, and would rather fill the pockets of mega corporations and billionaires instead of supporting people doing honest work to make a modest living. Truly baffling stuff.