A few thoughts on the modding scene for NBA 2K25

[Andrew]

With NBA 2K25 not that far away and the knowledge that PC will be getting a New Gen port, we're obviously already talking about modding. I believe we have an opportunity to reboot, refocus, and to an extent, correct course with the direction that our modding community has taken over the years.

I spoke about this at length in this week's Monday Tip-Off: New Gen Of Modding, Old School Approach

I'd definitely appreciate everyone giving it a read in its entirety, and continuing the conversation if you have some further thoughts on the issues that I've raised. To summarise the key points, though:

• We may not have all the external modding tools and capabilities of doing everything we're accustomed to right away. The important thing is to not get discouraged, and look at making that a reality as soon as we possibly can.
• In the meantime, we should take inspiration from the early days of modding both NBA Live and NBA 2K. We couldn't do everything we wanted, but did everything we possibly could with the tools and in-game functions we had on hand.
• This means supporting minimalist projects and mods that may be missing some of the details that we can't add now, but hopefully will be able to once we have all the tools we need. Start small and build from there, like we used to.
• We should help each other out by sharing resources and tutorials. Hoarding knowledge and trying to be exclusive are not the values that this community was built upon.
• Speaking of those values, that includes championing free and readily available releases. No charging for mods, no clout chasing, no teases of releases dependent on responses...none of that egotistical nonsense (and potential legal headaches).

I don't want to be melodramatic about the situation, but some of the things that we fought against for so long have ended up creeping into modding culture. A new generation of games and modding offers a great opportunity to get back on track and be better as a community, so I wanted to get a head start on that initiative.

[User_Name]

There are some nice - and well articulated - thoughts in this article, and I thought I could give some back in response:

First of all, I personally am in what I call a "one foot in, one foot out" position in regards to modding - I am what you would call a "modder" (as I have been creating soundtrack mods for the past iterations of 2K), but at the same time I only do so for a couple of months at each game and spend the rest playing. Thus, I believe I can give some perspective from both sides of the aisle, so to speak.

As a player, it is no secret that PC's long-standing selling point in regards to 2K has been modding, and that rings especially true now that finally the next-gen version is arriving on PC. There is a sense of eagerness from console players about what our platform has to ofter in regards to modding...but it might deflate as soon as the game comes out. People far more knowledgeable about the game's file system than me have deduced that it is likely the structure remains somewhat similar to current gen, however there is always the chance that we'll get the same situation we had back in the day with 2K15. I was around back then and I do remember the feeling of numbness, as we went from what was (and still is) an extremely moddable release in 2K14 to one that was much, much less so. You're absolutely correct in that the community shouldn't be discouraged - and while PC doesn't have the advantage of roster cross-sharing, there should be at least some nice, complete Eras rosters available.

Now, to the thorny issue of paid mods...I, for one, would never try to charge for a soundtrack, because a)it's mostly grunt work, I put no "artistry" (so to speak) on it b)I believe that free mods are essential to the community c)to be brutally honest, one could open Spotify while playing and mostly replace my mod.

When it comes to other modders, however, while I obviously cannot speak for them, it's obvious that they believe that they should be compensated for their work, be it a regular release or a customized one. As with almost everything in this world of ours, paid modding is driven by the concept of supply and demand: modders are clearly getting paid for their - almost always high quality - work, and in return, there are more and more people who decide that they are accepting payment for their releases. Now, I do get that this might be a route that leads at a bleak, dystopian future - where almost all good mods and eventually, tools/plugins essential for modding will be behind a paywall - but at the moment this doesn't seem to be the case. For better or worse, just like 2K is not going to get away from the microtransaction route anytime soon after being lucrative, some modders will continue to charge for their work - and I won't even get into the legal aspect (I'll just share one writers perspective on Valve trying to fight paid mods: "To change this opens a Pandora's Box of complications. Valve opened such a box in April 2015 (then promptly threw themselves bodily on the lid screaming "undo, undo!").

Point being, in almost all games that support modding there is a balance b/w free and paid ones, and I can't think of one that has been heavily tipped towards paid mods (outside of MS Flight Simulator, where mods however are made by actual dev teams and not a single person). After a couple of years in this community, there are still many high quality ones around for free, and that is good enough for me.

[Dee4Three]

I agree that one of worries is that essential modding tools will start being placed behind a paywall. Which obviously we would not allow here on the NLSC, so we would not host that file or thread. It's unfortunate that so many have gone down the path of charging for mods. Nobody wins in that scenario, and in most cases not even the person charging wins (most modders who use adfly, or other ad services, or who charge via Patreon or direct messaging, don't make much)

My hope is: The essential modding tools, which include roster editors, blender plug ins, mods folder, etc will be made available for free, for all of the basketball gaming community to access and enjoy. The modding community has always been more popular, happier, and productive when mods and tools are made available to all. The best roster projects, and the biggest ones at that, were all free mods which had a lot of community input, and buzz as a result.

[Uncle Drew]

There are some nice - and well articulated - thoughts in this article, and I thought I could give some back in response:

First of all, I personally am in what I call a "one foot in, one foot out" position in regards to modding - I am what you would call a "modder" (as I have been creating soundtrack mods for the past iterations of 2K), but at the same time I only do so for a couple of months at each game and spend the rest playing. Thus, I believe I can give some perspective from both sides of the aisle, so to speak.

As a player, it is no secret that PC's long-standing selling point in regards to 2K has been modding, and that rings especially true now that finally the next-gen version is arriving on PC. There is a sense of eagerness from console players about what our platform has to ofter in regards to modding...but it might deflate as soon as the game comes out. People far more knowledgeable about the game's file system than me have deduced that it is likely the structure remains somewhat similar to current gen, however there is always the chance that we'll get the same situation we had back in the day with 2K15. I was around back then and I do remember the feeling of numbness, as we went from what was (and still is) an extremely moddable release in 2K14 to one that was much, much less so. You're absolutely correct in that the community shouldn't be discouraged - and while PC doesn't have the advantage of roster cross-sharing, there should be at least some nice, complete Eras rosters available.

Now, to the thorny issue of paid mods...I, for one, would never try to charge for a soundtrack, because a)it's mostly grunt work, I put no "artistry" (so to speak) on it b)I believe that free mods are essential to the community c)to be brutally honest, one could open Spotify while playing and mostly replace my mod.

When it comes to other modders, however, while I obviously cannot speak for them, it's obvious that they believe that they should be compensated for their work, be it a regular release or a customized one. As with almost everything in this world of ours, paid modding is driven by the concept of supply and demand: modders are clearly getting paid for their - almost always high quality - work, and in return, there are more and more people who decide that they are accepting payment for their releases. Now, I do get that this might be a route that leads at a bleak, dystopian future - where almost all good mods and eventually, tools/plugins essential for modding will be behind a paywall - but at the moment this doesn't seem to be the case. For better or worse, just like 2K is not going to get away from the microtransaction route anytime soon after being lucrative, some modders will continue to charge for their work - and I won't even get into the legal aspect (I'll just share one writers perspective on Valve trying to fight paid mods: "To change this opens a Pandora's Box of complications. Valve opened such a box in April 2015 (then promptly threw themselves bodily on the lid screaming "undo, undo!").

Point being, in almost all games that support modding there is a balance b/w free and paid ones, and I can't think of one that has been heavily tipped towards paid mods (outside of MS Flight Simulator, where mods however are made by actual dev teams and not a single person). After a couple of years in this community, there are still many high quality ones around for free, and that is good enough for me.

Kudos to you. Great post.

[blackthorne2001]

I miss all the old modders here in NLSC they mod the game (Live 2000-2005) with passions for free unlike now you pay for the games and you still pay for the mods I'm not supporting that kind of modders I'm still glad the mods in NLSC is still free.

[KingofZeal]

Apologies if this is a bit off topic, but as a total outsider to this community who's only recently tried to understand the world of modding 2k, my biggest issue is there's a lot of great ideas, modders, and resources, but they all get fragmented across the different games. I obviously understand why the community gets scattered, but I personally just want to have one game that I stick to and make my base for what I want to do. I know it's wishful thinking, but if the community could agree on choosing an "old" 2k as a modding base for offline play, that'd be the dream. Eras was the missing piece to me. Now that PC is finally getting it, I want to permanently set up shop for the long haul.

[Rosque]

I agree that one of worries is that essential modding tools will start being placed behind a paywall. Which obviously we would not allow here on the NLSC, so we would not host that file or thread. It's unfortunate that so many have gone down the path of charging for mods. Nobody wins in that scenario, and in most cases not even the person charging wins (most modders who use adfly, or other ad services, or who charge via Patreon or direct messaging, don't make much)

My hope is: The essential modding tools, which include roster editors, blender plug ins, mods folder, etc will be made available for free, for all of the basketball gaming community to access and enjoy. The modding community has always been more popular, happier, and productive when mods and tools are made available to all. The best roster projects, and the biggest ones at that, were all free mods which had a lot of community input, and buzz as a result.

Genuine question, wasn't Vl@ds roster editor paid and he still has threads on NLSC? Or is it different cos he provided free version albeit limited?

Note: I am VERY against paid mods

[vetmin]

Apologies if this is a bit off topic, but as a total outsider to this community who's only recently tried to understand the world of modding 2k, my biggest issue is there's a lot of great ideas, modders, and resources, but they all get fragmented across the different games. I obviously understand why the community gets scattered, but I personally just want to have one game that I stick to and make my base for what I want to do. I know it's wishful thinking, but if the community could agree on choosing an "old" 2k as a modding base for offline play, that'd be the dream. Eras was the missing piece to me. Now that PC is finally getting it, I want to permanently set up shop for the long haul.

This is always easier said than done, since different modders have different feelings about which improvements in a new game are the kind that they don't ever want to come back from. Sometimes one game is ideal for a certain type of mod, whereas another is ideal for a different kind of mod, so different modders will gravitate to different ones based on their priorities. Creators of paid mods also have to consider that most users—even those who use mods on PC—don't want to be on one game for a long time; they want to always be on the newest game, they just want it to be the best possible version of that game (for which you need mods). So anyone who creates paid mods will probably gravitate towards creating for the latest release.

Even for those of us who like setting up for a longer haul will probably not find a home in 2K25.

Speaking of those values, that includes championing free and readily available releases. No charging for mods, no clout chasing, no teases of releases dependent on responses...none of that egotistical nonsense (and potential legal headaches).

Regarding this, the biggest thing I've come to appreciate with paid mods (i.e., beyond the general increase in quality and quantity of production that has seemed to come as a result) is that we as consumers of mods actually have some impact on what gets made. Particularly for cyberfaces, though many make them, there are only a handful of really S-tier creators (we all know who they are), and naturally those folks are going to be personally interested in some players more than others. In the free-mod paradigm, the distribution of quality among one's cyberface catalogue is basically up to the whims of those elite creators, such that you will never get an extremely well-done Nate Thurmond, for instance, unless one of those few folks is personally driven to do it, which is unlikely. I can't tell you though how many obscure-yet-fantastic retro cyberfaces I have at this point that the creator probably had zero interest in making, but which there was some outside financial demand for that led to them getting made. That's the thing that I think is overlooked a lot of the time: It's not that creators of paid mods are just making what they would've made otherwise and slapping a price tag on it; in most cases they're flat-out making more stuff and catering to gamers' desires beyond their own. I've really appreciated having more access, so to speak, to these creators' rare skills and to having more influence on what those skills go into making.

Just my two cents as someone who wasn't into the paid approach at first but came around to it.

[pistonnation]

YES, I am AGAINST paid mods! I have been around the modding scene since 2K9. I would be quite upset if mods were locked behind a paywall. I am completely fine with our elite modders setting up a donation page. I donated to Looyh for the 2Ktools in 2K23 without hesitation. Seeing the highest quality cyberfaces have a "Buy Now!" icon next to it is disheartening. Everything you modders do is much appreciated and will always be the first thing I think about when it comes to playing damn near ANY sports game on PC, but especially NBA2K. PLEASE don't let your incredible work be walled off from everyone who wants to enjoy it. I do not purchase NBA 2K games lightly, and after spending $70 on 2K25 for PC, I would be disappointed to have to give out more cash just so I can mod my game.

[Murat]

As long as game isn't unmoddable due to massive security policies inserted, it should be OK

If game is moddable then only concern would be if the tools are behind a paywall or not. I will buy the game and a gaming PC only if the game is moddable.

[TGsoGood]

I just want to see people share creativity. At the very least I would like to see people showcase mods that they enjoy using

[Janevas]

I’m really new here, and I hope i’m not breaking any rules or anything by asking this here but does anyone know when Looyh might release their 2K25 roster editor ? Do they post it around the same time every year or is it a wait and see thing ? My bad if i’m asking in the wrong place. This is my first 2K launch on PC and I’d really like to wait for the roster editor before jumping into mycareer, since i’ll wanna curate my own team. I’d like an idea of if I should wait for the game to go on sale for christmas (which i’d rather do if the roster editor wont be out until then anyway).

[bikerjimuk]

I thought you couldn't edit rosters in mycareer?

[Janevas]

I thought you couldn't edit rosters in mycareer?

Why’d you think that ? I recall doing it with ‘23 and ‘24 using looyh’s roster editor. Do you use a different one ?

[TGsoGood]

I’m really new here, and I hope i’m not breaking any rules or anything by asking this here but does anyone know when Looyh might release their 2K25 roster editor ? Do they post it around the same time every year or is it a wait and see thing ? My bad if i’m asking in the wrong place. This is my first 2K launch on PC and I’d really like to wait for the roster editor before jumping into mycareer, since i’ll wanna curate my own team. I’d like an idea of if I should wait for the game to go on sale for christmas (which i’d rather do if the roster editor wont be out until then anyway).

No one knows for sure when tools will be available since this is our first look at this generation's version of the game on PC.

[TGsoGood]

I thought you couldn't edit rosters in mycareer?

Yes it has been possible to edit rosters in mycareer with modding tools.

[Thunder Shaq]

I get why people have tried to take the paid approach with their mods in recent years, but I feel like all it has done has limited their reach and community enjoyment. I'm also still not entirely sure of the legality of making money off something that requires a license/likeness rights?

[big-shot-ROB]

I think a lot of appreciation for the community comes with age. I was once tempted to go the paid route when I was younger. But leaving the big legal implications of paid mods (both by using 2k' assets and player likeness), with time I've realised how important the community is. And how I would have never been able to create mods if the community hadn't existed and free tutorials weren't available.

While I have not been very active in recent years, this site is special and I encourage everyone to be a part of the basketball gaming modding community, in any capacity, and to contribute to it.

[NewJerseyNets]

Agreed. I hope the old school approach that stays in the old school is the REDitor style essential paid mods.

[TGsoGood]

I like that some level of modding has now opened up a little more on the console side now with 2Kdna, scenarios, and rosters being crossplatform.
now is the best time for all of us to try to work with others and build the PC community back up and bring others with us.
This is a chance to change the image of the 2K community from toxic to positive, even though we have no obligation to do that.

This is also a chance for us to show 2K that we want the offline modes to become the main focus of the game again at least for a year or 2.