NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

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NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby TRIIIAD on Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:07 am

phpBB [video]


Honestly looks close to what modded 2K20 looked like. Also what is up with the fps tanking during that Luka clip (around 0:34)?? :crazyeyes:
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby Andrew on Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:49 am

Some impressive stuff from the close-up cinematic angles, but the rest of it...well, it doesn't look bad or anything, but I'm concerned about the familiarity of the scenarios I'm seeing. It's like I've said before: it may be built from the ground up, but if it's a familiar blueprint, we're going to see familiar issues. We're not going to see them all in a trailer mind you, but if they are present, we're going to experience them once we get our hands on the sticks.

Some additional info from the official NBA 2K subreddit:

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The stuff with AI and player collisions/movement sounds good on paper, but we've heard that before, and seen games under-deliver on that promise. Perhaps I've been covering NBA Live and NBA 2K for too many years now, perhaps I've grown a bit too jaded and cynical, but I want to see and feel it for myself before I get too excited. In recent years, developer blogs have included outright lies, as revealed by the blogs for the following year's release. I want to be more optimistic than I am, but the sloppy Current Gen version and a lack of goodwill in recent years makes it difficult.
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby jmmontoro on Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:07 am

Only lightning and textures are next gen, the rest is PR. Clearly they've held back on current gen so next gen didn't feel like such a small leap.
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby TRIIIAD on Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:13 am

Andrew wrote:The stuff with AI and player collisions/movement sounds good on paper, but we've heard that before, and seen games under-deliver on that promise. Perhaps I've been covering NBA Live and NBA 2K for too many years now, perhaps I've grown a bit too jaded and cynical, but I want to see and feel it for myself before I get too excited. In recent years, developer blogs have included outright lies, as revealed by the blogs for the following year's release. I want to be more optimistic than I am, but the sloppy Current Gen version and a lack of goodwill in recent years makes it difficult.


I definitely do not believe their claim that the game is "built from the ground up." It does look like they finally mocapped Luka's jumpshot this year, but both Steph and Klay's jumpshots, and most of the dribble moves are straight from current gen. I hope the AI-driven crowd improvements are true, because 2K's delayed crowd reactions would always kill the atmosphere, especially compared to what Live had in that department.
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:21 am

Skating at 0:46 looks awfully familiar.

Lack of proper footplanting has really hurt the game over the last few years. Also, watch the players feet around the basket. Outside of a better LOOKING game, with better reflections and better lighting, the gameplay basically looks the same as 2K20 and 2K21.

Trying to remain optimistic, but the whole "built from the ground up" I feel was more of a attention grabber, and more marketing, than substance. I am not expecting a totally brand new experience, but am hoping for big improvements on player movement.
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby Andrew on Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:30 am

TRIIIAD wrote:I definitely do not believe their claim that the game is "built from the ground up." It does look like they finally mocapped Luka's jumpshot this year, but both Steph and Klay's jumpshots, and most of the dribble moves are straight from current gen. I hope the AI-driven crowd improvements are true, because 2K's delayed crowd reactions would always kill the atmosphere, especially compared to what Live had in that department.


There are definitely some recycled animations, which isn't surprising. I wouldn't expect them to be able to replace their entire bank of animations in the first release of the generation, especially when getting players in to mo-cap isn't necessarily feasible given the current situation. It does detract a little from the idea of Next Gen and "built from the ground up", though.

I don't know how to feel about the crowd AI stuff. On one hand, it's important for the game's atmosphere. On the other hand, I worry that attention hasn't gone into more important areas of AI such as poor help defense, to say nothing of the other legacy issues that have been in the game for a couple of generations now. I feel that too much attention has gone to flavour content and bells and whistles in recent years, while frustrating issues with gameplay remain untouched (and sometimes, have even gotten worse). As I said, previous developer blogs have revealed lies and deception, so it'll be difficult not to take the good things we're bound to hear with a truckload of salt.
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby bongo88 on Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:52 am

slowed down the dribble drives to 25% speed... help defense is just horrible on those drives...

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player models look they have more vertices.... but i'm not impressed with the lighting on the players.
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:55 am

Good catch on the defense.

And again, the skating... he is floating above the court at one point in that drive.
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby bongo88 on Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:01 am

Dee4Three wrote:Good catch on the defense.

And again, the skating... he is floating above the court at one point in that drive.


yeah, behind the back mid air change direction.... maybe he's a jedi :)

anyways, gonna have to put my conspiracy theory tin foil hat .... either nba doesn't want a good game or 2k doesn't want to improve the game

i mean, with you, vanwolfhawk, celticG, darth skinnet, Alby ... and all the other amazing roster creators over the years (i'm sure i missed a bunch) .... 2k could implement any descent roster

oh well, hopefully nba live will put out a good product

at least i ahve time to someday finish my lower3rd mod... but more gameplay footage will be interesting.... because that help defense is absolutely atrocious
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby sticky-fingers on Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:03 am

Not hyped at all. Not a big step in term of graphic improvment. Close up are slightly better, but it's still look like a video game.
We can also see that they use A LOT of old stuff (S.Kerr and Klay textures are for example definitly the same than on current gen).
The speed brakes are still there and most of the the sounds they add will not problably be in the game.
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby sevin0seven on Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:09 am

Well at least they updated the "same old generic refs faces" from this current gen it seems.
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby Marvin00 on Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:20 am

That was disappointing, i expected a complete overhaul

Besides more refined and polished cyberface designs, sweat and lightening ...the gameplay look identical

Maybe they finally updated global and stadium lights :D
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby jmmontoro on Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:21 am

More frustrating than the lack of evolution is the media collaborating on pushing the next gen brand instead of reporting facts.
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby Andrew on Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:27 am

bongo88 wrote:anyways, gonna have to put my conspiracy theory tin foil hat .... either nba doesn't want a good game or 2k doesn't want to improve the game


Lack of competition. Even when NBA Live has come out, the games haven't moved the needle, as they haven't been able to cater to everyone as well as NBA 2K has. For all its faults, NBA 2K has maintained a level of quality and enjoyment that's been higher and more consistent than NBA Live over the past decade.

I also believe a lot of content creators and reviewers are afraid to call them out on certain issues, not wanting to lose their access. That's not to say that none of them legitimately like the games or see no problems with them, but it's hard to pass up that access if NBA 2K is a big part or indeed the entire scope of your content, and those who complain usually don't get the perks and exclusives that help draw eyes to their work.
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby [Q] on Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:35 am

I like how they used the good lighting, reflections, and overall look of the game as the major selling point but that all basically comes standard with next gen consoles. They certainly didn't take their previous work and toss it in the trash can so they're obviously reusing most of their assets and not building from scratch.

I'm definitely not impressed, especially since most of what they showed are pregame and timeout animations.

They tried to wow people and impress with this trailer. To the uninformed casual fan, just the sight of new upgraded next gen graphics and environment is enough but we know the problems that lie beneath.
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby zondac12 on Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:43 am

graphic-wise, i thought they would update the coaches body's on next gen.
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby HappySnow on Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:19 am

The only good thing is that facial textures are improved. However, all effects, which include lighting, reflection and color, look like cartoon style. It made me feel disappointed honestly.
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby play297 on Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:32 am

I looked the trailer and... it's bad.
I mean, the cinematic was poorly made (or is it a REAL FPS lag? Still Alpha so fixable, but worrying if it is the case), the moves feel too much "arcade".

I don't know, i had a bad impact looking at this.
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby Thunder Shaq on Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:36 am

Nowhere near the jump graphically we saw for 2k14. Still see a lot of shortcuts being taken. Copy and paste models in the crowd with heavy clipping. See a lot of the same animations. This is NOT the same level of effort we saw for last gen launch. Lack of competition is really poisoning the product
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby Book_Gazette on Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:55 am

Hey guys, back from the dead.

Yup can agree. I was a bit disappointed.

The lighting and textures are just enhanced that's about it

phpBB [video]


Compare this mod on PC to the next gen trailer and see how similar it looks
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby copecowboy on Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:00 am

Book_Gazette wrote:Hey guys, back from the dead.

Yup can agree. I was a bit disappointed.

The lighting and textures are just enhanced that's about it

phpBB [video]


Compare this mod on PC to the next gen trailer and see how similar it looks



the next gen looks a lot better than this video. that doesn't even look good.
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby ThaLiveKing on Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:13 am

bongo88 wrote:slowed down the dribble drives to 25% speed... help defense is just horrible on those drives...

phpBB [video]


player models look they have more vertices.... but i'm not impressed with the lighting on the players.


It looks like they slowed down and sped up this whole sequence, still look unnatural. They didn't fit the footing. I'm glad I only got the game for PC.
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby Marvin00 on Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:27 am

If i was head of nba 2k i would hire many of the modders in this community and the chinese form

their current staff are out of ideas and seem comfortable with their output :|
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby ThaLiveKing on Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:48 pm

Marvin00 wrote:If i was head of nba 2k i would hire many of the modders in this community and the chinese form

their current staff are out of ideas and seem comfortable with their output :|


lol that's what they been doing, the only problem with that is that the creators don't have the freedom to do what they would normally do.
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Re: NBA 2K21: Next-Gen Gameplay Reveal

Postby Andrew on Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:53 pm

ThaLiveKing wrote:
Marvin00 wrote:If i was head of nba 2k i would hire many of the modders in this community and the chinese form

their current staff are out of ideas and seem comfortable with their output :|


lol that's what they been doing, the only problem with that is that the creators don't have the freedom to do what they would normally do.


That's it right there. I think there's an assumption that if you join the development team, you'll have carte blanche to do whatever you want. There's a road map in place and roles that are assigned, to say nothing of demands and direction from the suits. Also, not every modder is a programmer, so while they may have suggestions and input, they can't necessarily directly contribute to the development of AI, physics, motion systems, and so on.
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