chronoxiong wrote:Question #1: In this screenshot, I picked the Kings Statement jersey and playing as them at home. But look at that arena, that is not the Statement court. It looks like the old Arco Arena. How do we fix that? And how come when I play as the 01-02 Kings at home, they are playing in the new Golden 1 Center.
[ Image ]
Question #2: In that same screenshot, I am using the NBC scoreboard. Thats cool. But how do I combine the NBC Sacramento watermark with this scoreboard? Is that possible?
Question #3: I downloaded this new Pau Gasol cyberface from here: https://www.2kspecialist.net/2020/05/pa ... -body.html
How do I replace his face only for the All-Time Grizzlies and the other classic teams he is on? I dont want it to replace his old face.
"06 Grizzlies": {
"face0809.iff": "pau/face0809.iff",
"png0809.iff": "pau/png0809.iff",
"png0809_facialhair_01.iff": "pau/png0809_facialhair_01.iff",
"png0809_facialhair_01_tangentspace.iff": "pau/png0809_facialhair_01_tangentspace.iff",
"png0809_hair_01.iff": "pau/png0809_hair_01.iff",
"png0809_hair_01_tangentspace.iff": "pau/png0809_hair_01_tangentspace.iff",
"watermark.iff": "watermark_california.iff",
},
"742": {
"name": "06 Grizzlies",
"file": "06 Grizzlies",
},
natkra90 wrote:chronoxiong wrote:Question #1: In this screenshot, I picked the Kings Statement jersey and playing as them at home. But look at that arena, that is not the Statement court. It looks like the old Arco Arena. How do we fix that? And how come when I play as the 01-02 Kings at home, they are playing in the new Golden 1 Center.
[ Image ]
Question #2: In that same screenshot, I am using the NBC scoreboard. Thats cool. But how do I combine the NBC Sacramento watermark with this scoreboard? Is that possible?
Question #3: I downloaded this new Pau Gasol cyberface from here: https://www.2kspecialist.net/2020/05/pa ... -body.html
How do I replace his face only for the All-Time Grizzlies and the other classic teams he is on? I dont want it to replace his old face.
Question #1: Download Ultimate Retro Roster by Thunder Shaq: viewtopic.php?f=258&t=107928
That will give you the floor made by sticky-fingers shown here:
[ Image ]
Question #2: You should be able to put whatever watermark you want in the waigua folder. I'll be implementing the NBC Watermarks on current teams on next week's update of the Mod Automation Toolkit if you want that to work on it's own: Mod Automation Toolkit
Question #3: This one's a bit more complex.
You'll need NBA2K_Hook by Looyh: viewtopic.php?f=258&t=108024.
And you'll need the team ID: viewtopic.php?f=258&t=109576
Step 1: Put the files in a folder inside waigua. We'll call it "waigua\pau"
Step 2: Create a team file. (you can also make the watermark or any other file specific here as well)
Here's an example if you wanted the '06 Grizzlies and we used the "pau" folder.
- Code: Select all
"06 Grizzlies": {
"face0809.iff": "pau/face0809.iff",
"png0809.iff": "pau/png0809.iff",
"png0809_facialhair_01.iff": "pau/png0809_facialhair_01.iff",
"png0809_facialhair_01_tangentspace.iff": "pau/png0809_facialhair_01_tangentspace.iff",
"png0809_hair_01.iff": "pau/png0809_hair_01.iff",
"png0809_hair_01_tangentspace.iff": "pau/png0809_hair_01_tangentspace.iff",
"watermark.iff": "watermark_california.iff",
},
Step 3:
Assign your team to the team file.
- Code: Select all
"742": {
"name": "06 Grizzlies",
"file": "06 Grizzlies",
},
chronoxiong wrote:natkra90 wrote:chronoxiong wrote:Question #1: In this screenshot, I picked the Kings Statement jersey and playing as them at home. But look at that arena, that is not the Statement court. It looks like the old Arco Arena. How do we fix that? And how come when I play as the 01-02 Kings at home, they are playing in the new Golden 1 Center.
[ Image ]
Question #2: In that same screenshot, I am using the NBC scoreboard. Thats cool. But how do I combine the NBC Sacramento watermark with this scoreboard? Is that possible?
Question #3: I downloaded this new Pau Gasol cyberface from here: https://www.2kspecialist.net/2020/05/pa ... -body.html
How do I replace his face only for the All-Time Grizzlies and the other classic teams he is on? I dont want it to replace his old face.
Question #1: Download Ultimate Retro Roster by Thunder Shaq: viewtopic.php?f=258&t=107928
That will give you the floor made by sticky-fingers shown here:
[ Image ]
Question #2: You should be able to put whatever watermark you want in the waigua folder. I'll be implementing the NBC Watermarks on current teams on next week's update of the Mod Automation Toolkit if you want that to work on it's own: Mod Automation Toolkit
Question #3: This one's a bit more complex.
You'll need NBA2K_Hook by Looyh: viewtopic.php?f=258&t=108024.
And you'll need the team ID: viewtopic.php?f=258&t=109576
Step 1: Put the files in a folder inside waigua. We'll call it "waigua\pau"
Step 2: Create a team file. (you can also make the watermark or any other file specific here as well)
Here's an example if you wanted the '06 Grizzlies and we used the "pau" folder.
- Code: Select all
"06 Grizzlies": {
"face0809.iff": "pau/face0809.iff",
"png0809.iff": "pau/png0809.iff",
"png0809_facialhair_01.iff": "pau/png0809_facialhair_01.iff",
"png0809_facialhair_01_tangentspace.iff": "pau/png0809_facialhair_01_tangentspace.iff",
"png0809_hair_01.iff": "pau/png0809_hair_01.iff",
"png0809_hair_01_tangentspace.iff": "pau/png0809_hair_01_tangentspace.iff",
"watermark.iff": "watermark_california.iff",
},
Step 3:
Assign your team to the team file.
- Code: Select all
"742": {
"name": "06 Grizzlies",
"file": "06 Grizzlies",
},
Ok cool. About question 1, you are right. I had to use Thunder Shaq's roster and when I did, the classic Kings team was playing in the old Arco Arena. I still dont understand why it says Kings Arena though. So you can't figure out why the Kings Statement arena is not loading when they are wearing the Statement jerseys? How weird of the game.
Question #2, I guess I can wait for your update of the Mod Automation Toolkit. Its not a big need for me. I just like having the best accurate representation whenever I can lol.
Question #3, I tried to do it but I must be doing it wrong. Am I supposed to do it on the F8 menu screen? Or just copy and paste what you posted onto the waigua config file?
{
"lang": "en",
"global": {
"forcedisplayphotos": 1,
"mygmshowsettings": 1,
"rostercustomdata": 1,
"quickgamereset": 1,
"loadTeamFiles": 1,
"modLoadingPriority": 1,
"blacktopJersey": 1,
"playerEditorPlus": 1
},
"gui": {
"enabled": 1,
"status": 0,
"player": {
"showarchive": 1
}
},
"teamFiles": {
"files": {
"06 Grizzlies": {
"face0809.iff": "pau/face0809.iff",
"png0809.iff": "pau/png0809.iff",
"png0809_facialhair_01.iff": "pau/png0809_facialhair_01.iff",
"png0809_facialhair_01_tangentspace.iff": "pau/png0809_facialhair_01_tangentspace.iff",
"png0809_hair_01.iff": "pau/png0809_hair_01.iff",
"png0809_hair_01_tangentspace.iff": "pau/png0809_hair_01_tangentspace.iff",
"watermark.iff": "watermark_california.iff",
}
},
"teams": {
"0": {
"name": "76ers",
"file": "null"
},
"1": {
"name": "Bucks",
"file": "null"
},
"2": {
"name": "Wizards",
"file": "null"
},
"3": {
"name": "Bulls",
"file": "null"
},
"4": {
"name": "Cavaliers",
"file": "null"
},
"5": {
"name": "Celtics",
"file": "null"
},
"6": {
"name": "Clippers",
"file": "null"
},
"7": {
"name": "EastAllstar",
"file": "null"
},
"8": {
"name": "Grizzlies",
"file": "null"
},
"9": {
"name": "Hawks",
"file": "null"
},
"10": {
"name": "Heat",
"file": "null"
},
"11": {
"name": "Pelicans",
"file": "null"
},
"12": {
"name": "Jazz",
"file": "null"
},
"13": {
"name": "Kings",
"file": "null"
},
"14": {
"name": "Knicks",
"file": "null"
},
"15": {
"name": "Lakers",
"file": "null"
},
"16": {
"name": "Magic",
"file": "null"
},
"17": {
"name": "Macericks",
"file": "null"
},
"18": {
"name": "Nets",
"file": "null"
},
"19": {
"name": "Nuggets",
"file": "null"
},
"20": {
"name": "Pacers",
"file": "null"
},
"21": {
"name": "Pistions",
"file": "null"
},
"22": {
"name": "Raptors",
"file": "null"
},
"23": {
"name": "Rockets",
"file": "null"
},
"24": {
"name": "Thunder",
"file": "null"
},
"25": {
"name": "Spurs",
"file": "null"
},
"26": {
"name": "Suns",
"file": "null"
},
"27": {
"name": "Timberwolves",
"file": "null"
},
"28": {
"name": "TrailBlazers",
"file": "null"
},
"29": {
"name": "Warriors",
"file": "null"
},
"30": {
"name": "WestAllstar",
"file": "null"
},
"31": {
"name": "Hornets",
"file": "null"
},
"742": {
"name": "06 Grizzlies",
"file": "06 Grizzlies",
}
}
}
}
chronoxiong wrote:Okay I downloaded your attachment and that fixed the Arco Arena text. Thats cool. But the Kings Statement arena, you guys can't figure out the issue for that?
I will download your Retro Dornas. No questions asked. I will try to remember to check out updates you make to them. And really will get your NBC watermarks when you have them ready.
I messed up my 2K Hook by trying to copy and paste that coding. I was trying to keep my scoreboard mods in and I messed it up. I have to start over. I thought I tried to make sure I have the right spacing and commas to put in the coding.
By the way, how can you rename the pau gasol files with "/"? PC's dont allow that symbol to be used for name filing. Should we use the dash or underscore mark insted?
natkra90 wrote:chronoxiong wrote:Okay I downloaded your attachment and that fixed the Arco Arena text. Thats cool. But the Kings Statement arena, you guys can't figure out the issue for that?
I will download your Retro Dornas. No questions asked. I will try to remember to check out updates you make to them. And really will get your NBC watermarks when you have them ready.
I messed up my 2K Hook by trying to copy and paste that coding. I was trying to keep my scoreboard mods in and I messed it up. I have to start over. I thought I tried to make sure I have the right spacing and commas to put in the coding.
By the way, how can you rename the pau gasol files with "/"? PC's dont allow that symbol to be used for name filing. Should we use the dash or underscore mark insted?
I don't think the jersey makes any difference on which arena you're using. The game uses team id's to determine which stadium to load. You could put the stadium in your waigua folder and make a special config to copy over before you load the game when you want to use the Statement arena. Honestly, it's probably more of a headache than it's worth, but it's doable.
Here's the list of stadiums: viewtopic.php?f=259&t=107978
You can export them with this tool: NBA2K File Batch Exporter Console by Looyh
NBC Watermarks are made by TwisT. What I do is help put everything together, and automate based on the team id and which roster you're using.
The watermarks are here: NBC Sports Watermarks
Sorry to hear you lost your work. Always copy + past the file before editing.
The folder name should just be "pau" not "/pau".
chronoxiong wrote:natkra90 wrote:chronoxiong wrote:Question #1: In this screenshot, I picked the Kings Statement jersey and playing as them at home. But look at that arena, that is not the Statement court. It looks like the old Arco Arena. How do we fix that? And how come when I play as the 01-02 Kings at home, they are playing in the new Golden 1 Center.
[ Image ]
Question #2: In that same screenshot, I am using the NBC scoreboard. Thats cool. But how do I combine the NBC Sacramento watermark with this scoreboard? Is that possible?
Question #3: I downloaded this new Pau Gasol cyberface from here: https://www.2kspecialist.net/2020/05/pa ... -body.html
How do I replace his face only for the All-Time Grizzlies and the other classic teams he is on? I dont want it to replace his old face.
Question #1: Download Ultimate Retro Roster by Thunder Shaq: viewtopic.php?f=258&t=107928
That will give you the floor made by sticky-fingers shown here:
[ Image ]
Question #2: You should be able to put whatever watermark you want in the waigua folder. I'll be implementing the NBC Watermarks on current teams on next week's update of the Mod Automation Toolkit if you want that to work on it's own: Mod Automation Toolkit
Question #3: This one's a bit more complex.
You'll need NBA2K_Hook by Looyh: viewtopic.php?f=258&t=108024.
And you'll need the team ID: viewtopic.php?f=258&t=109576
Step 1: Put the files in a folder inside waigua. We'll call it "waigua\pau"
Step 2: Create a team file. (you can also make the watermark or any other file specific here as well)
Here's an example if you wanted the '06 Grizzlies and we used the "pau" folder.
- Code: Select all
"06 Grizzlies": {
"face0809.iff": "pau/face0809.iff",
"png0809.iff": "pau/png0809.iff",
"png0809_facialhair_01.iff": "pau/png0809_facialhair_01.iff",
"png0809_facialhair_01_tangentspace.iff": "pau/png0809_facialhair_01_tangentspace.iff",
"png0809_hair_01.iff": "pau/png0809_hair_01.iff",
"png0809_hair_01_tangentspace.iff": "pau/png0809_hair_01_tangentspace.iff",
"watermark.iff": "watermark_california.iff",
},
Step 3:
Assign your team to the team file.
- Code: Select all
"742": {
"name": "06 Grizzlies",
"file": "06 Grizzlies",
},
Ok cool. About question 1, you are right. I had to use Thunder Shaq's roster and when I did, the classic Kings team was playing in the old Arco Arena. I still dont understand why it says Kings Arena though. So you can't figure out why the Kings Statement arena is not loading when they are wearing the Statement jerseys? How weird of the game.
Question #2, I guess I can wait for your update of the Mod Automation Toolkit. Its not a big need for me. I just like having the best accurate representation whenever I can lol.
Question #3, I tried to do it but I must be doing it wrong. Am I supposed to do it on the F8 menu screen? Or just copy and paste what you posted onto the waigua config file?
I don't think the jersey makes any difference on which arena you're using. The game uses team id's to determine which stadium to load. You could put the stadium in your waigua folder and make a special config to copy over before you load the game when you want to use the Statement arena. Honestly, it's probably more of a headache than it's worth, but it's doable.
Here's the list of stadiums: viewtopic.php?f=259&t=107978
You can export them with this tool: NBA2K File Batch Exporter Console by Looyh
NBC Watermarks are made by TwisT. What I do is help put everything together, and automate based on the team id and which roster you're using.
The watermarks are here: NBC Sports Watermarks
Sorry to hear you lost your work. Always copy + past the file before editing.
The folder name should just be "pau" not "/pau".
chronoxiong wrote:Wow ok. I am trying to not quote both of your guy's posts because it causes for a clusterf#$k of a page to look at. So after I messed up my config file, I decided to download the Retro config file from your other thread @natkra90. The one that already has scoreboard group file names for all the teams and old teams. So that saves me time from doing my own config file which is good. I made sure I renamed all the necessary files to make sure the correct scoreboard mods load up for whichever team I pick as in Play Now mode. I mention this because I dont have to create my own group names for scoreboards anymore.
I don't think the jersey makes any difference on which arena you're using. The game uses team id's to determine which stadium to load. You could put the stadium in your waigua folder and make a special config to copy over before you load the game when you want to use the Statement arena. Honestly, it's probably more of a headache than it's worth, but it's doable.
Here's the list of stadiums: viewtopic.php?f=259&t=107978
You can export them with this tool: NBA2K File Batch Exporter Console by Looyh
NBC Watermarks are made by TwisT. What I do is help put everything together, and automate based on the team id and which roster you're using.
The watermarks are here: NBC Sports Watermarks
Sorry to hear you lost your work. Always copy + past the file before editing.
The folder name should just be "pau" not "/pau".
Ok is that batch file thing a headache to do? Because I didnt know it was going to be this semi-complicated to mod. I thought it was going to be a bunch of copying and pasting. Which it is. But the waigua folder and other stuff you guys have mentioned to me made it sound more harder. Which could take a while for me to get down. I have downloaded those NBC watermarks. So I should just add another file name to the Kings folder that you provided in the other thread right?
Same goes for the Pau Gasol thing. The 06 Grizzlies already have a folder in your other thread. So I should add more files to that folder and have it be the younger Pau files?
@cujomatty, wow ok. I do see your thread on the Raptors. It is neat. So thats what you do for each Raptors jersey? Like I said, I kinda know what to do but there aren't many tutorials on how to do all this. So what you are saying is that you created a different file folder for every Raptor jersey so you can have certain ones load up.
natkra90 wrote:chronoxiong wrote:Wow ok. I am trying to not quote both of your guy's posts because it causes for a clusterf#$k of a page to look at. So after I messed up my config file, I decided to download the Retro config file from your other thread @natkra90. The one that already has scoreboard group file names for all the teams and old teams. So that saves me time from doing my own config file which is good. I made sure I renamed all the necessary files to make sure the correct scoreboard mods load up for whichever team I pick as in Play Now mode. I mention this because I dont have to create my own group names for scoreboards anymore.
I don't think the jersey makes any difference on which arena you're using. The game uses team id's to determine which stadium to load. You could put the stadium in your waigua folder and make a special config to copy over before you load the game when you want to use the Statement arena. Honestly, it's probably more of a headache than it's worth, but it's doable.
Here's the list of stadiums: viewtopic.php?f=259&t=107978
You can export them with this tool: NBA2K File Batch Exporter Console by Looyh
NBC Watermarks are made by TwisT. What I do is help put everything together, and automate based on the team id and which roster you're using.
The watermarks are here: NBC Sports Watermarks
Sorry to hear you lost your work. Always copy + past the file before editing.
The folder name should just be "pau" not "/pau".
Ok is that batch file thing a headache to do? Because I didnt know it was going to be this semi-complicated to mod. I thought it was going to be a bunch of copying and pasting. Which it is. But the waigua folder and other stuff you guys have mentioned to me made it sound more harder. Which could take a while for me to get down. I have downloaded those NBC watermarks. So I should just add another file name to the Kings folder that you provided in the other thread right?
Same goes for the Pau Gasol thing. The 06 Grizzlies already have a folder in your other thread. So I should add more files to that folder and have it be the younger Pau files?
@cujomatty, wow ok. I do see your thread on the Raptors. It is neat. So thats what you do for each Raptors jersey? Like I said, I kinda know what to do but there aren't many tutorials on how to do all this. So what you are saying is that you created a different file folder for every Raptor jersey so you can have certain ones load up.
The batch file exporter is much easier than older tools for exporting game files, but I guess it depends on what you would consider to be a headache.
I made a tutorial for setting things up with the retro dornas mod. You'll find it in the "getting started" folder in the download, or here: viewtopic.php?f=258&t=109640&p=2009657#p2009393.
As far as the NBA scoreboards, I haven't released the update to support them yet, but I'll attach them in advanced with Gasol added to the '06 Grizzlies. You can look at the configs to see what I did, and replicate that for any other team you want.
You'll need to create a new folder in your waigua folder called "nbc_watermarks" and put all the city folders in there. So the California watermark for example would end up being located in "*gamefolder*\waigua\nbc_watermarks\California\watermark.iff"
natkra90 wrote:The configs don't do anything until the game actually loads.
My retro config includes everything from his original config, so you don't need his if you're using mine.
The uniforms look accurate to me. There's not a big difference between how the looked at '06 and now. Here's a screenshot from footage when the Pistons were home at '06.
[ Image ]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Wt3uJfDv8
chronoxiong wrote:natkra90 wrote:The configs don't do anything until the game actually loads.
My retro config includes everything from his original config, so you don't need his if you're using mine.
The uniforms look accurate to me. There's not a big difference between how the looked at '06 and now. Here's a screenshot from footage when the Pistons were home at '06.
[ Image ]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Wt3uJfDv8
You are right. It looks good enough. Thanks for all the help. That solved everything and I will keep your config. Your config is good enough. I just need to the find the old 1990 scoreboard to match up with the ones who need that scoreboard.
I still dont understand @cujomatty's ways so hopefully I can learn how to do that someday in the future. The Kings Statement arena isn't a big deal to me but it would be nice to have.
New question now, I want to put this Pau Gasol mod https://www.2kspecialist.net/2020/05/pa ... -body.html
onto the 2010 Lakers. I created the file group but realized that the 2010 Lakers team ID is used for the All-Time Lakers team. Can I not make a new file group for the 2010 Lakers? I was trying to add the Remembering Kobe ESPN scoreboard for that team too.
natkra90 wrote:chronoxiong wrote:natkra90 wrote:The configs don't do anything until the game actually loads.
My retro config includes everything from his original config, so you don't need his if you're using mine.
The uniforms look accurate to me. There's not a big difference between how the looked at '06 and now. Here's a screenshot from footage when the Pistons were home at '06.
[ Image ]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Wt3uJfDv8
You are right. It looks good enough. Thanks for all the help. That solved everything and I will keep your config. Your config is good enough. I just need to the find the old 1990 scoreboard to match up with the ones who need that scoreboard.
I still dont understand @cujomatty's ways so hopefully I can learn how to do that someday in the future. The Kings Statement arena isn't a big deal to me but it would be nice to have.
New question now, I want to put this Pau Gasol mod https://www.2kspecialist.net/2020/05/pa ... -body.html
onto the 2010 Lakers. I created the file group but realized that the 2010 Lakers team ID is used for the All-Time Lakers team. Can I not make a new file group for the 2010 Lakers? I was trying to add the Remembering Kobe ESPN scoreboard for that team too.
I updated this for the 2010 Lakers for you. With my configs, every team has its own file group out of necessity. So all you need to do is open in notepad, CTRL + F and search "10 Lakers" (no quotes) and you can edit from there. The retro roster and 2010 roster actually use different team ID's, so you'll have to use the appropriate config, but they're updated on both.
natkra90 wrote:The 2010 Lakers is on ThunderShaq's retro and 2010 roster, but under different team IDs.
If you want the retro roster, you need to copy the config file inside the config/retro folder into your NBA2K_Hook folder.
The batch will automatically copy the appropriate config file for the roster and run the game when you run it. Just double click on it and see what happens. You can create shortcuts to the batches on your desktop or start menu. This allows you to run configs for different roster without having to manually copy files every time.
chronoxiong wrote:natkra90 wrote:The 2010 Lakers is on ThunderShaq's retro and 2010 roster, but under different team IDs.
If you want the retro roster, you need to copy the config file inside the config/retro folder into your NBA2K_Hook folder.
The batch will automatically copy the appropriate config file for the roster and run the game when you run it. Just double click on it and see what happens. You can create shortcuts to the batches on your desktop or start menu. This allows you to run configs for different roster without having to manually copy files every time.
I doubled clicked on the bat files and I see the cmd screen prompt for a second and it disappears. I dont know what is supposed to be happening. I tried to edit the file though because my NBA 2K20 folder is in my external hard drive. And then I tried to run it as administrator and I only see the cmd screen prompt for a split second again.
cd "PUT YOUR GAME FOLDER HERE"
ROBOCOPY /s "config\default" "NBA2K_Hook" /mir
start NBA2K20.exe
chronoxiong wrote:This is what I get https://i.ibb.co/nwQHm1W/Untitled.png
I am just confused. All this modding. I mainly know copying and pasting because thats how it was for me and NBA 2K14. But this, waigua and all these batches stuff. Too new for me. It doesn't help that I suck at coding even though I took a computer engineering class back in college. So my game is installed on my external hard drive and its the "I" drive. Dont know what to do. I'm in no hurry to figure this out. I'm trying to figure out what watermark files to replace in your config with newer ones from this link: https://www.2kspecialist.net/2020/05/wa ... -2k20.html
cd "I:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\NBA 2K20"
If it is, the first line you put in command prompt should be:
CODE: SELECT ALL
cd "I:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\NBA 2K20"
The cd tells the command prompt to use that folder. The quotation marks tell the command prompt that the directory isn't over when there's a space. So, both need to there.
You should then see I:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\NBA 2K20> where it was previously saying C:\Users\chronoxiong>
---
The watermarks get renamed to the add the appropriate call sign and then put in the waigua folder.
Using FOX as an example: watermark.iff would become watermarkfox.iff. You don't need to worry about pregame folders or anything like that with my config. Just drop it in the waigua folder, and you're good.
I only support watermarks that can be found in real in-game footage from the country of origin (U.S or Canada). If it's not real, they're not in the config so ESPN and TNT watermarks won't be referenced. All the names for the files can be found here:
viewtopic.php?f=258&t=109576
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