kidhybrid89 wrote:"There’s a word for “make a conversion”. It’s called “convert”, ya know the verb...It may seem like semantics and users who do conversions are a huge asset, but it shouldn’t overshadow the talents of those who actually make the faces from scratch, modder or otherwise. Credit where credit is due." - So demean other people's work so you can get the praise you want. Got it.
How is that demeaning? In what way is saying, "A does not equal B" equate to demeaning. Conversions are hugly important, I do them constantly. I have an appreciation for the work it takes. That being said, it is not "making" a face. The face file is just dropped into 2k20 full.
kidhybrid89 wrote:"You may not grasp it but the difference is real." - Condescending someone per usual. Not to mention his previous comment clarified that there was a distinction but that he thought you were overreacting to the semantics of the word. Yet you ignore that and get an attitude. SHOCKING.
Well if you're still arguing the fact there is no difference then you may not grasp it either. That's totally okay. Most people don't mod and don't see a difference. I'm just saying that if people, especially those new to the forum see someone who "makes" faces, the expectation will be they can create something from scratch, and that's a tough ask. It would save future confusion if the original commentor used "convert". OP has always indicated these are conversions, in fact, they clarified it again after the original discussion.
kidhybrid89 wrote:"I am in no way intimidated by this thread or anyone in it. I have literally every conversion from 2k21 with my own tattoos over the top. I don’t need these works" - In what world is this not bragging to you? Any sensible person reading that is likely going to come to the same conclusion. The fact that more than one person is calling you out on it should be a clear indicator of your lack of self-awareness.
You're reading it that way and that's fine. If somebody says you're just intimidated/jealous because you don't have A, and I respond with I'm not intimidated/jealous because I have A+B, that is giving clear reasoning for why I'm not intimidated/jealous. I'd love to hear a way to respond to "you're just intimidated by X" without sighting examples of why that is not the case. Just saying, no I'm not is a weak argument.
kidhybrid89 wrote:"OP, keep up the great work. Excited to see who’s next." - This coming from someone who went out of their way for no reason at all to demean his work. Quite literally the definition of a back-handed compliment. Very hypocritical to boot.
Again, didn't demean anyone. Separate the original correction of a commentor from the view of OP and their content. I'm able to do that perfectly, I hope you can too.
kidhybrid89 wrote:"If this is the level of discourse, we are definitely done here." - Yet you continue to go on anyways.
Well, you certainly repsonded with some higher levels of discussion did you not? Glad to have sparked the discussion.
kidhybrid89 wrote:"I was informed I spoke up originally because I was “intimidated” by this thread." - Perhaps that isn't the correct word for it but jealously might fit a little better in my opinion. I mean why even post here if you have something "that's better"? It served no real purpose than to demean another person while patting yourself on the back. Furthermore, if you had such an issue with the literal wording of the post (which is rather trivial to begin with), a private message would suffice. You made it a point to do it publicly so you could put down yet another poster's work. Which is typical ego-driven jealous behavior.
Again, separate the correction of a comment from my opinion of OP's work. I have no reason to PM OP and quite frankly I'm glad this turned into the discussion it has publically. I wish it stayed on point of "conversion" vs "make" but it devolved into personal attacks.
kidhybrid89 wrote:"I don’t need anyone to buy the “semantics” argument. That’s my reasoning for posting it and if you don’t believe it that’s fine, but you probably shouldn’t speak for everyone. It’s an important distinction to make between “made” and “converted”." - That's cool that you think that but it's a case of the boy who cried wolf. You've now done this MULTIPLE TIMES and behaved similarly on numerous threads. The ironic thing is that you get plenty of praise on your work here so there's really no need to be immature enough to feel compelled to correct someone over the usage of a word. Even if your "argument", and I use that term loosely, has some truth to it, it's all rather trivial none the less.
I don't care about my work here at all. We can dive into that when we discuss ego later, but making a point of conversion vs creation is one I think needs discussed or at least used properly. Past behavior doesn't invalidate an argument. That's just a personal attack which is frankly anyone has really had. I made a point that we should be careful to not interchange conversion and creation. I gave multiple reasons and so far nobody has actually discussed that point, they just all want to freak out like it was some attack. You both read malice into where there was none.
kidhybrid89 wrote:"I’m not the only person getting into disagreements. There are several on the 2k21 forums that I just lurk and watch unfold." - Yeah little things here and there for sure. Unfortunately, you have had several issues with the likes of Shuajota, PettyPaulPierce, Mr. Star, and now this one and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more to add to that list too if I really went through your posts... I mean don't you think that's a lot for one person? Also, why does pointing out someone else's arguments make you feel better about the unnecessary ones you've created? Not a lot of logic behind that statement.
Your previous statement, along with the crux of this paragraph, amounted to a presumption that I cause a disproportionate amount of drama here. I was simply pointing out that drama occurs in other places without me involved. I can go through each extended discussion and disagreement I've had with other users in the past. Mostly those started like this one, I thought some practice was probably not a great precedent to start (Kicksology having a paid tier, Shuajota releasing stuff with PMs, etc). I think the forum survived all of those and will long outlast me going forward. I put my opinion out there just like anyone else can. If people agree, great but if not its the minority and it is silenced. You've brought more attention to this than I ever expected, I just wish it was less personal and more substantive.
kidhybrid89 wrote:To summarize, it's as if whenever someone is doing something similar to you (creating new rookie classes, filling in the current roster) that you get jealous and have to start drama over it, usually resulting in similar types of posts and attempts to demean someone's work. Then you sum it all up with some backhanded compliments and pretend you're the righteous guy at the end of it. I've seen you do this multiple times now and you DESERVE to be called out on it. I appreciate your work as much as anyone but at a certain point your ego is simply getting the best of you. Again there was no need for you to post anything here like that and if you truly wanted a distinction to be made, you could have sent a private message instead of getting upset at someone's usage of the word make. This is all silly nonsense created for no reason. Period.
So to the ego thing, I've said this tons of times but I don't know how you can think I have an ego with this. I've never posted to social media, I don't have a Youtube account other than to show a single game of gameplay once a year. I don't tweet at players, I don't want to be hired by 2k, etc. I've called out Shuajota about releasing his draft class only because I announced a release date and his dropped immedately. I felt like that was intentional. I've pushed back my own release dates to allow other projects or cyberface makers to get a headstart.
Why would I be opposed to someone filling in the roster? I have mine filled in. I have faces 2k didn't scan for 2k21 (again not a brag, an explanation for lack of ego or jealousy). That doesn't even make logical sense for me to be jealous. I enjoy this community and like to see others do important things. I've donated to most major modders on here and will continue to do so in the future because I think this place does wonderful things.
PM's don't start a conversation. They're obviously private in nature. With as much as conversions have taken off, I think it should be clear when something is a creation and something is a conversion. If I take LosJosh's amazing 2k21 Lamelo texture and drop it on default 2k20 Lamelo, I didn't make Lamelo Ball. I "converted" a 2k21 product. I think that's an important distinction for proper crediting and to avoid burdensome requests. Maybe people disagree but I'd love to hear the rationale instead of the personal attacks.
