Player Movement Issues

[Dee4Three]

We have a "2K on ice" thread, but not one that discusses all player movement issues in the game. Here are the ones that impact how I play (Results and outcomes as well)

1. Skating/Floating - Skating into spots you didn't intend to go, floating above the floor, these things are happening constantly. It has a big impact on defense as well, as players are harder to control because they are unrealistically sliding all over the floor

2. Clunky change of direction - Changing directions is a chore at times (for no reason)

3. Being sucked into other players - On offense, and defense, this is happening a lot. If a defender is near you, often times you are sucked into him or he is sucked into you, which impacts results/outcomes, and forces you to change the way you play. Often times you have an open layup with room to finish, but the game forces you backwards or sideways into a defender.

4. Delayed passing - Heavy passing animations that make moving the ball a chore at times. It makes a normal "quick swing" or "One more" delayed, allowed the defense to adjust or get out on players when in real life they wouldn't have been able to.

5. LAUNCHED layup animations - These started in 2K18, and continued for the last couple games. Sometimes your player with launch himself unrealistically (And really fast and awkward) for a layup further out from the basket than he would in real life.

6. Slow motion side by side drives/movement - The new motion system for 2K18 came riddled with blow by defense that heavily favored the offensive side of the ball. While it got better in 2K19, and took a slight step back from 2K19 with 2K20, it's still present. But, in order to curve the issue from 2K18, it looks like they made a "sticking" effect that now places you in slow motion side by sides when you drive to the hoop. This feels awkward most of the time, and it impacts outcomes and results.

Here is the video I made about some of the issues when the game first came out, and I had sunk a quite a few hours into it.

phpBB [video]

If you look at the comments on that video, and the comments on other gameplay videos. You will notice that many of my items above are listed as frustrations by other users.

A lot of these movement issues seem to come from the new motion system that was implemented in 2K18. Now, 2K20 offered new aspects to that motion system, but the bones are very similar. Another player movement issue is just the defense in general, defensive principles. Players getting lost constantly in transition, getting backdoored and beat, just letting you run by them, etc. The defense seemed to take a step backwards from 2K19.

Player movement is so important in any game, but especially a sport like basketball. And when the player movement issues impact fun, realism, and outcomes/results, it ends up being an even bigger problem. My frustrations will not be everybodys, some enjoy the game (Which is great!), but the issues I mentioned above impact my experience, and I have seen many others complain about 1 or more of the items I mentioned above.

This community is heavily focused on modding, i'd like to get some conversations going about gameplay and other aspects of basketball gaming.

[Lagoa]

Dude, I totally agree with you! The problem is, these broken animations get in the way of the whole match. You get uncomfortable playing, because all the time there are completely broken animations that get in the way of your thinking.

I think the 2K20 is quietly the WORST 2K GAME in terms of handling/movement. It is very unrealistic!

I am seriously considering playing 2K19 again ....

[Andrew]

What I find particularly frustrating about the various issues with player movement is that the CPU isn't affected by them, leading to imbalance. AI players feel like they're a couple of steps quicker, able to change direction easier, and can make sharper turns compared to our axis of movement. All the while, there's that all too familiar feeling of running in mud and animations playing out in slow motion.

On a related note, the physicality also feels imbalanced. CPU defenders will suck you in and stick to you like glue, but at the other end, they're able to slip away and past you as though they're covered in oil. A lot of the challenge comes not from smart play, but the CPU being able to do things your players simply can't. That's not even getting into things like shooting mechanics, with the CPU making a ridiculous amount of contested layups, or AI players being able to instantly recover and grab their own offensive board time and time again when they do miss inside.

[eirik]

I recently played NBA 2K13 for nostalgia and damn it felt so smooth compared to 2k20. Completely agree with the points you've made.

[diamenz]

sometimes i wonder if the clunky and delayed player movement is a part of the online anti-cheese blueprint that unfortunately carries over to offline play.

about #5 on your list - if u want a jumper and are worried about being sucked into a mid-range launch for a layup/dunk, u need to get into the habit of releasing the left stick as you're pressing square for your jumper. this way, u can even pull up for jumpers in the paint (close range) once u get a hang of it.

[Dee4Three]

sometimes i wonder if the clunky and delayed player movement is a part of the online anti-cheese blueprint that unfortunately carries over to offline play.

about #5 on your list - if u want a jumper and are worried about being sucked into a mid-range launch for a layup/dunk, u need to get into the habit of releasing the left stick as you're pressing square for your jumper. this way, u can even pull up for jumpers in the paint (close range) once u get a hang of it.

I know how to avoid them, I'm talking about in general in regards to the ugly, and unrealistic "launch" animations. That's more what I am getting at, those animations themselves. I edited the wording

The other point about making the movement a certain way because of the online experience, I agree with. I am sure that comes into play in a big way. But player movement being as important as it is in general in a sports game, it truly impacts the gameplay in a negative way in all modes.

I remember people praising the feel and movement of 2K14, 2K15 and 2K16 (and less complaints about 2K17, but a few more). Since 2K18 the frustration has mounted, and I see a lot more complaints about feel, control, etc

[Andrew]

Here's another one that I just saw pointed out on Twitter: invisible walls.

[deihatein]

I know this is the player movement stuff but I hate in 2k19 most of the time the A.I won't take a timeout for like a whole quarter. I'm pretty sure that still in 2K20.

[Dee4Three]

I recently played NBA 2K13 for nostalgia and damn it felt so smooth compared to 2k20. Completely agree with the points you've made.

And that is one of the points I've been trying to make all along, especially between this gen and last gen. The "outdated" and "it's new so it has to be better" talk is used incorrectly.

Just because a game is new or newer, doesn't make it automatically play better, make it more fun, or make it better in general. I enjoy the feel, control, and player movement in 2K13 more than 2K20 as well.

In 2K20, the default roster content has improved A LOT, the online options have obviously improved and have gotten "smarter" you could say, but as far as the on court action is concerned (feel, flow, player movement which includes foot planting etc), I think a lot of people out there would still prefer 2K13 and other past titles.

Here is a fun way to think about it.

Put NBA 2K13s gameplay, with NBA 2K20s graphics and look overall, with all the content that 2K20 has. Let's say you put those two games side by side, and put people on the sticks. I feel that a lot of people would gravitate towards the "2k13 in 2K20" because of the overall feel to the gameplay.

I've stated the items I liked and disliked about 2K20. I do like many things about it. But when it comes down to player movement, control, and overall feel, I prefer many titles that came before it. The defense issues in 2K20 should be discussed in detail and AT LENGTH, defense intelligence and execution was MUCH better in some prior games (including 2K16 which IMO is the best). That feedback is incredibly important.

And by the way, that's OKAY. Its not about what's cool, or hip, or trendy, it's about what you the user enjoys the most. If you like a past game, play it. A crowd of people exists that will tell you that complaints about the new or newest games are "ridiculous" or "do not matter" because the "majority of people like it" (which often times that statement is wrong as well), but your concerns with the game DO matter, and your voice should be heard as long as that feedback is given in the correct manner. Developers have made some minor changes or additions to games based on my feedback, and devs DO listen given the feedback is given appropriately. The crowd that says "Go play live and shut up if you dont like it", is close minded and not seeing the importance of proper feedback (and what proper feedback can accomplish).

Luckily, with Sko/Slimm still around, you can still get updated rosters for 2K13 and 2K14 for the PC. Hawks UBR is still up (someone just shared the full mod again) and while it's not completely updated to this season, it's still an amazing experience.

[Dee4Three]

Here's another one that I just saw pointed out on Twitter: invisible walls.

This has been going on since 2K17 (in regards to the volume of it), and it really hurts the gameplay.

Players are left completely wide open on cuts to the basket, backdoors, in transition, etc. They basically just move out of the way. All the talk about "sim" and "realism", yet this issue is constant and impacts the gameplay in a big way.

Players cut and invisible walls exists that prevent the defender from properly shutting off the cut (even if they actually try and play it properly), often times you will have that free opening and go for an easy layup, and be sucked backwards into a defender for no reason. Think about how broken that whole sequence I just mentioned is, it represents lack of control (and realism), which causes frustration.

They tried to curve blow bys, which produced slow motion side by side drives when feels really odd and unrealistic. And, blow bys exist similar to 2K18 at times where you can just run by your defender (and help seldom reacts properly so it's an easy two).

The gameplay has a lot of frustrating (out of control) elements to it over the last few years for me.

[Andrew]

Going back to something diamenz brought up, I think catering to the online scene is somewhat responsible here. They're no doubt trying to counteract cheese in scenarios where all the players are user-controlled, which leaves us nerfed in situations where everyone else is an AI player. Online seems to be the focus, and offline has suffered as a result. With that being said, I haven't found online enjoyable for the past couple of years either.

[Dee4Three]

Dude, I totally agree with you! The problem is, these broken animations get in the way of the whole match. You get uncomfortable playing, because all the time there are completely broken animations that get in the way of your thinking.

I think the 2K20 is quietly the WORST 2K GAME in terms of handling/movement. It is very unrealistic!

I am seriously considering playing 2K19 again ....

"The whole match"

This goes back to my point that you shouldnt have to FAKE sim, or FAKE competition. If the whole game or majority of the game you are just trying to avoid the games issues, and not able to play loose and the way you want, that's a major red flag.

You shouldnt have to fake sim or fake competition, the game that is marketed as a sim ot a certain way should produce that result or atleast close to that result on the court. The game itself shouldn't have that many exploits (which are issues themselves), control and intelligence issues, etc etc

The player movement stuff, and the glaring defensive issues impact the whole match/game or the majority of the match/game for many users.

"Don't ISO and drive for an easy score if it's that easy, that's an exploit"

"Dont run by multiple defenders in transition constantly if it's that easy, it's an exploit"

"Dont go wide when pushing the pace to get easy baskets if it's that easy, it's an exploit"

Do you see how that makes no sense? Its COMPETITION, its sport. You shouldnt have to constantly avoid bugs and exploits during the game. You shouldnt have to FAKE sim, or not try and pursue the best scoring opportunity.

My two biggest gripes with the game are the player movement issues I mentioned, and the terrible defense.

[Dee4Three]

THIS is exactly what I am talking about in regards to terrible defense. Those who say that this game doesn't have major intelligence issues, movement issues, and exploits, cannot be spending a lot of time with the game, dont understand basketball, or are literally blindly supporting the games (or enjoy the dumb CPU). This is NOT DEBATEABLE

phpBB [video]

See Van Vleet just move out of the way on defense? this is happening CONSTANTLY, they literally just move out of the way, this happens in the halfcourt at times as well. What am I supposed to do? Pull back and fake sim EVERY TIME this happens? I put the game on for a second, and this is literally the first fastbreak.

You guys who talk about how "Sim" this game is, and how "realistic" it is, and ignore all the defense comments and proof, are you literally playing a different game? This is one of MANY defensive issues in the game that happen all the time.

It's really sad that more people are not highlighting this stuff. We NEED to talk about gameplay more in here, this isnt just a modding a site, it's a basketball gaming site.

[bluejaybrandon]

THIS is exactly what I am talking about in regards to terrible defense. Those who say that this game doesn't have major intelligence issues, movement issues, and exploits, cannot be spending a lot of time with the game, dont understand basketball, or are literally blindly supporting the games (or enjoy the dumb CPU). This is NOT DEBATEABLE

phpBB [video]

See Van Vleet just move out of the way on defense? this is happening CONSTANTLY, they literally just move out of the way, this happens in the halfcourt at times as well. What am I supposed to do? Pull back and fake sim EVERY TIME this happens? I put the game on for a second, and this is literally the first fastbreak.

You guys who talk about how "Sim" this game is, and how "realistic" it is, and ignore all the defense comments and proof, are you literally playing a different game? This is one of MANY defensive issues in the game that happen all the time.

It's really sad that more people are not highlighting this stuff. We NEED to talk about gameplay more in here, this isnt just a modding a site, it's a basketball gaming site.

There’s no indication of who you’re even playing as. Are you Van Vleet and moved him out of the way? Also Russel does a hesitation and Van Vleet continues to follow the original path. You’re just hating on people who enjoy the game and claim they “don’t know basketball” like you’re some savant. You played some rec leagues, chill. You’re yelling into an echo chamber. Look at these threads. You’re a majority of the comments and posts. Some people are enjoying it, you have issues. We get it but we don’t all need to engage with the negativity.

There’s like 4 threads now complaining about the movement. I haven’t had any of these issues with Shady’s sliders. But then again I don’t slow down and replay every hiccup in the game. You NEED to talk about gameplay, but if nobody wants to engage you because you’ve proved it’s pointless then what’s the point? You’re searching for an argument where there isn’t one. If you don’t like the game, go back to the older ones. Nobody is trying to invalidate your opinion of them and point out their flaws, yet you have an obsession with hating this game to the point that you think others need to validate why they enjoy it.

Go ahead if you NEED to talk about the flaws but just because the only responses are agreements doesn’t invalidate those who are enjoying the game.

[Dee4Three]

THIS is exactly what I am talking about in regards to terrible defense. Those who say that this game doesn't have major intelligence issues, movement issues, and exploits, cannot be spending a lot of time with the game, dont understand basketball, or are literally blindly supporting the games (or enjoy the dumb CPU). This is NOT DEBATEABLE

phpBB [video]

See Van Vleet just move out of the way on defense? this is happening CONSTANTLY, they literally just move out of the way, this happens in the halfcourt at times as well. What am I supposed to do? Pull back and fake sim EVERY TIME this happens? I put the game on for a second, and this is literally the first fastbreak.

You guys who talk about how "Sim" this game is, and how "realistic" it is, and ignore all the defense comments and proof, are you literally playing a different game? This is one of MANY defensive issues in the game that happen all the time.

It's really sad that more people are not highlighting this stuff. We NEED to talk about gameplay more in here, this isnt just a modding a site, it's a basketball gaming site.

There’s no indication of who you’re even playing as. Are you Van Vleet and moved him out of the way? Also Russel does a hesitation and Van Vleet continues to follow the original path. You’re just hating on people who enjoy the game and claim they “don’t know basketball” like you’re some savant. You played some rec leagues, chill. You’re yelling into an echo chamber. Look at this thread. You’re 90% of the comments. People are enjoying it, you have issues. We get it but we don’t all need to engage with the negativity.

There’s like 4 threads now complaining about the movement. I haven’t had any of these issues with Shady’s sliders. But then again I don’t slow down and replay every hiccup in the game. You NEED to talk about gameplay, but if nobody wants to engage you because you’ve proved it’s pointless then what’s the point? You’re searching for an argument where there isn’t one. If you don’t like the game, go back to the older ones. Nobody is trying to invalidate your opinion of them and point out their flaws, yet you have an obsession with hating this game to the point that you think others need to validate why they enjoy it.

Bluejay, I am using the Warriors and the CPU moves out of the way, implying that I uploaded the video and lied is complete BS. This is literally something that happens ALL THE TIME in this game, the CPU moves out of the way (or slides or skates out of the way on the break), I do the hesitation with Russell to pull back and pause the game so I could take the replay it and upload the video.

These DO happen with shadys sliders, and any slider set. It's literally part of the engine in the game, this happened in 2K18 as well with ANY slider set that was used. The defensive intelligence is absolutely dreadful a good majority of the time. It's not just nitpicking or replaying "every little thing". That was literally the first fastbreak of the game. Just like the blow by issue is a really thing, so is the transition defense.

Me pointing out issues and posting videos of said issues makes me think I'm a basketball savant? And has you bringing up rec league? That makes no sense and it's you flaming for no reason. You sound ridiculous when you pull that stuff. Saying I am "searching for stuff" is also ridiculous, as these issues are impacting me throughout games (as I've stated before)

And it doesnt take a basketball savant to identify that a defender just moving out of an offensive players way so he can get an easy layup is an issue, or that going wide and being able to finish uncontested on most fastbreaks is an issue, or that being able to just run by your defender in the half court against average defenders is an issue. That is incredibly basic basketball stuff, beginners can identify that.

Andrew brought up a short video about the skating, and has also talked about NUMEROUS gameplay issues that bug him in different threads, wanna call him a basketball savant? A nitpicker? Someone that needs to "watch the tutorials"? Many other have complained as well about different player movement issues and defensive issues, Lagoa, etc. Wanna do the same to them?

This thread is literally titled player movement issues. It's a thread for people who would want to discuss those issues, and it's the first thread that only encompasses that and that specifically. The defense is player movement (and intelligence) related.

It's an issue REGARDLESS of what slider sets were used. Even if a slider set was used that curved it. That doesnt fix the CORE problem.

You need to change your approach. Because much of the stuff you bring up is unnecessary and not related to the conversation.

Gameplay discussion has fallen off a lot over the last couple years on the NLSC, which is why I brought up that gameplay should be discussed more. The LARGE majority of traffic heads straight to the modding section, and this isnt just a modding site. Stating that if I dont like it, to just go play the past games, does not make the issues go away, and doesnt make feedback any less important. I will continue to supply feedback, as I should.

And, this thread is for people who are indeed having similar issues, or would like to discuss them. That's the point, and multiple people have come in here and engaged. You coming in here and throwing insults at me when I provide a video of one of the issues, which is on topic, is completely unnecessary.

[bluejaybrandon]

THIS is exactly what I am talking about in regards to terrible defense. Those who say that this game doesn't have major intelligence issues, movement issues, and exploits, cannot be spending a lot of time with the game, dont understand basketball, or are literally blindly supporting the games (or enjoy the dumb CPU). This is NOT DEBATEABLE

phpBB [video]

See Van Vleet just move out of the way on defense? this is happening CONSTANTLY, they literally just move out of the way, this happens in the halfcourt at times as well. What am I supposed to do? Pull back and fake sim EVERY TIME this happens? I put the game on for a second, and this is literally the first fastbreak.

You guys who talk about how "Sim" this game is, and how "realistic" it is, and ignore all the defense comments and proof, are you literally playing a different game? This is one of MANY defensive issues in the game that happen all the time.

It's really sad that more people are not highlighting this stuff. We NEED to talk about gameplay more in here, this isnt just a modding a site, it's a basketball gaming site.

There’s no indication of who you’re even playing as. Are you Van Vleet and moved him out of the way? Also Russel does a hesitation and Van Vleet continues to follow the original path. You’re just hating on people who enjoy the game and claim they “don’t know basketball” like you’re some savant. You played some rec leagues, chill. You’re yelling into an echo chamber. Look at this thread. You’re 90% of the comments. People are enjoying it, you have issues. We get it but we don’t all need to engage with the negativity.

There’s like 4 threads now complaining about the movement. I haven’t had any of these issues with Shady’s sliders. But then again I don’t slow down and replay every hiccup in the game. You NEED to talk about gameplay, but if nobody wants to engage you because you’ve proved it’s pointless then what’s the point? You’re searching for an argument where there isn’t one. If you don’t like the game, go back to the older ones. Nobody is trying to invalidate your opinion of them and point out their flaws, yet you have an obsession with hating this game to the point that you think others need to validate why they enjoy it.

Bluejay, I am using the Warriors and the CPU moves out of the way, implying that I uploaded the video and lied is complete BS. This is literally something that happens ALL THE TIME in this game, the CPU moves out of the way (or slides or skates out of the way on the break), I do the hesitation with Russell to pull back and pause the game so I could take the replay it and upload the video.

These DO happen with shadys sliders, and any slider set. It's literally part of the engine in the game, this happened in 2K18 as well with ANY slider set that was used. The defensive intelligence is absolutely dreadful a good majority of the time. It's not just nitpicking or replaying "every little thing". That was literally the first fastbreak of the game. Just like the blow by issue is a really thing, so is the transition defense.

Me pointing out issues and posting videos of said issues makes me think I'm a basketball savant? And has you bringing up rec league? That makes no sense and it's you flaming for no reason. You sound ridiculous when you pull that stuff. Saying I am "searching for stuff" is also ridiculous, as these issues are impacting me throughout games (as I've stated before)

And it doesnt take a basketball savant to identify that a defender just moving out of an offensive players way so he can get an easy layup is an issue, or that going wide and being able to finish uncontested on most fastbreaks is an issue, or that being able to just run by your defender in the half court against average defenders is an issue. That is incredibly basic basketball stuff, beginners can identify that.

Andrew brought up a short video about the skating, and has also talked about NUMEROUS gameplay issues that bug him in different threads, wanna call him a basketball savant? A nitpicker? Someone that needs to "watch the tutorials"? Many other have complained as well about different player movement issues and defensive issues, Lagoa, etc. Wanna do the same to them? Your approach is incredibly telling.

This thread is literally titled player movement issues. It's a thread for people who would want to discuss those issues, and it's the first thread that only encompasses that and that specifically. The defense is player movement (and intelligence) related.

It's an issue REGARDLESS of what slider sets were used. Even if a slider set was used that curved it. That doesnt fix the CORE problem.

You need to change your approach. Because much of the stuff you bring up is unnecessary and not related to the conversation.

Gameplay discussion has fallen off a lot over the last couple years on the NLSC, which is why I brought up that gameplay should be discussed more. The LARGE majority of traffic heads straight to the modding section, and this isnt just a modding site. Stating that if I dont like it, to just go play the past games, does not make the issues go away, and doesnt make feedback any less important. I will continue to supply feedback, as I should.

And, this thread is for people who are indeed having similar issues, or would like to discuss them. That's the point, and multiple people have come in here and engaged. You coming in here and throwing insults at me when I provide a video of one of the issues, which is on topic, is completely unnecessary.

I’m not going to respond because you’re not worth it. You’re just yelling into an echo chamber. “We NEED to discuss this”. Great do it, but stop fishing for people who enjoy the game to defend themselves. You’re a bully and it’s annoying. You act like you’re a mod and you’re clearly not. You literally said “no one who knows basketball could defend this”. As if because you play pickup, you know best. Nobody owes you an explanation why they enjoy the movement. Many people who are well versed in basketball are enjoying the game.

[Dee4Three]

Nobody who knows basketball (or even doesnt, actually) would say that the defender just moving out of the way is okay. It's an obvious problem. Continuing with the "because you play pickup" and "rec league" talk is not the appropriate approach in the least, and has nothing to do with the video I showed or the dialogue on this topic.

And nothing you have said has changed the issue at hand, the fact that what I showed in that video is legit an issue, and it's something that isnt a one time occurence.

That's also a new video, and it was placed in the appropriate thread.

Moving on might be for the best.

[bluejaybrandon]

Nobody who knows basketball (or even doesnt, actually) would say that the defender just moving out of the way is okay. It's an obvious problem. Continuing with the "because you play pickup" and "rec league" talk is not the appropriate approach in the least, and has nothing to do with the video I showed or the dialogue on this topic.

And nothing you have said has changed the issue at hand, the fact that what I showed in that video is legit an issue, and it's something that isnt a one time occurence.

That's also a new video, and it was placed in the appropriate thread.

Moving on might be for the best.

Agreed. Let’s move on to a new topic instead of the rehashed “movement is broken” for the fourth thread.

[Dee4Three]

Nobody who knows basketball (or even doesnt, actually) would say that the defender just moving out of the way is okay. It's an obvious problem. Continuing with the "because you play pickup" and "rec league" talk is not the appropriate approach in the least, and has nothing to do with the video I showed or the dialogue on this topic.

And nothing you have said has changed the issue at hand, the fact that what I showed in that video is legit an issue, and it's something that isnt a one time occurence.

That's also a new video, and it was placed in the appropriate thread.

Moving on might be for the best.

Agreed. Let’s move on to a new topic instead of the rehashed “movement is broken” for the fourth thread.

Again, multiple people have already commented on this thread, and discussion was taking place (glad I started it).

Andrew's original "2k on ice" was not a title that encompassed player movement issues in general. This is literally the only thread that has that title and that particular purpose. One thread.

The impressions thread where I listed 10 things I liked and 10 I didn't was an all encompassing impressions of the game thread, which is why more than player movement was highlighted, in fact many positives were highlighted in that thread by me.

And, this hit and run approach is unacceptable. Coming into the thread and throwing insults at me, followed by not acknowledging anything I say because "I'm not worth it", and leaving. I was clearly worth it for you to come in here and throw ridiculous insults at me. Just so you know, you don't discredit me when you pull that nonsense, you only discredit yourself. What you are pulling is obvious.

So if you are not interested in this particular topic, or have nothing to add, I would say it's time to move on.

[sticky-fingers]

Most of those problems are historical with NBA2K.

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

pretty sure that 2K never started from a clean sheet between old gen and current gen.
And it just got worse with the new motion engine introduced with 2K18.

[Dee4Three]

You mention it got worse with 2K18, and it did.

A BIG difference in volume of occurence. Sliding at times DID exist on this gen and last in instances, but it wasnt nearly as constant and impactful as the last 3 titles.

Same with defensive issues. They improved a little on 2K19 from 2K18, and went backwards again with 2K20. I go back and play the prior titles all the time (as you know) and the defensive intelligence and execution on 2K16 blows away 2K20, as does 2K14 and 2K15 (and 2K12 and 2K11).

You didnt do this specifically, but the people that say "Skating happened in prior games, its nothing new" while not mentioning VOLUME and how often it happens now compared to prior titles, is not fair in any sense to those old titles, those people are missing a lot of context.

You mentioned that its happening more since 2K18, so you are atleast acknowledging that.

Just like the being "sucked in" to other players issue. This DID happen in instances in prior 2Ks, but the VOLUME and gravity of it in 2K20 far exceeds the amount it happened before. Invisible walls, being dragged into spots you didnt intend to go just because another player is in your area, being sucked backwards into the defender (or forwards if you the defender) etc.

If you are playing a game, and have to CONSTANTLY avoid exploits, bugs, and issues (not going wide in transition, not just running passed your defenders, etc) you are not playing real competitive basketball, and you are also more than likely frustrated at the fact that you have to keep dodging these issues.

If I have to pull back on a fastbreak just because the CPU moves out of the way and I dont want to have an easy score, that is an immersion killer. And an ISSUE that IMO should be addressed.

[Dee4Three]

For 2K19, I created a thread about the player movement issues on operation sports, with a detailed breakdown of the issues and some video evidence. The topic had a TON of replies, and it ran 19 pages. People open to the discussion, actually discussing the video I posted, my slider tweaks to curve the issue etc.

https://forums.operationsports.com/foru ... ssion.html

I even branched off and made a slider thread for player movement that also had a lot of volume, and people really appreciated it. It had 35 pages.

https://forums.operationsports.com/foru ... iders.html

No insults were thrown at eachother, no other unnecessary inflammatory conversation took place, we all stayed on topic and had a discussion, on both threads. We all didnt agree all the time, but we kept the conversation on track.

OS has more traffic, sure. They will have 1500 users logged in for every 200 users logged in here at the NLSC. But overall people seem to be far more open to discussing gameplay, and giving feedback.

I've heard and witnessed the "fanboy" stigma that OS has, but more and more people seem to be open to submitting feedback over there, discussion gameplay, and trying to get to the bottom of those issues. I wasnt met with venom at all on that movement thread or the slider thread on OS. I had some great conversations with people.

I created the 2K cam vs Broadcast cam thread as well on OS, and it has had a lot replies, people giving takes on why they use what they use, history discussion etc. I created that thread AFTER I created the one on here (a day or two after I believe), and the one on here has 2 replies (one comment from Andrew, and one by me).

https://forums.operationsports.com/foru ... t-cam.html

I'm not expecting NLSC to be OS, just disappointed at times with the lack of discussion outside of modding, and the lack of discussion on gameplay related issues (and the good gameplay aspects as well).

[sticky-fingers]

Like i said, a big part of the core of the game is IMO mostly the same than on a previous gen, patched for better or worse year after year.
Ball and players were never really free on NBA2K. I had a replay on an old 2K (11 or 12 i guess) where my player (Bird) was stuck into successive animations and made 6 or 7 steps and drop a valid (!) bucket.
And invisible wall is also a historical issue, i tweak my sliders for years against, in fact since i play 2K on PC.
I really think that this old "physics" engine is at the end of its life.

[Dee4Three]

Like i said, a big part of the core of the game is IMO mostly the same than on a previous gen, patched for better or worse year after year.
Ball and players were never really free on NBA2K. I had a replay on an old 2K (11 or 12 i guess) where my player (Bird) was stuck into successive animations and made 6 or 7 steps and drop a valid (!) bucket.
And invisible wall is also a historical issue, i tweak my sliders for years against, in fact since i play 2K on PC.
I really think that this old "physics" engine is at the end of its life.

Again, Volume on the issues, the amount it happens, how common they are and how they impact gameplay (on both O and D). And, the new issues that arrived.

On a side note: The Nets and Pacers court you made for 2K16 are awesome, just looked at them in game. Thanks for those!!!