Can we talk about the current state of the NBA 2k19 Modding Section?

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Can we talk about the current state of the NBA 2k19 Modding Section?

Postby bluejaybrandon on Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:32 pm

I don’t want to sit here and rant but i do want to open up a discussion and possibly get some feedback. It just seems like this year more than ever the quality of posts and ridiculous amounts of requests have clogged the modding section.

That one thread requesting mods for a complete different site constantly dominates the top of the modding section, meanwhile actual quality NLSC creators are being ignored. I don’t want to come off as self interested becuse I could care about my meaningless updates but in general there is no feedback. The same 3 users are complimentary meanwhile everyone else downloads silently or just asks for more foreign mods. Like I understand the desire but I think it’s really detracting from atmosphere here. Lots of creators have left but those that are still here are being buried by these requests, many of which others on this very site have updated previously.

I don’t want to get into many users inability to do even minor things like follow multiple threads and understand the update and how it effects mods because that’s it own topic probably. I guess this probably ties into that foreign request thread because these same people are unable to navigate that site and put in minimal effort just posting links. I’m confident they won’t even see this because I doubt they even know this other section even exists. I say this because I like this place but the 2k19 Modding section is so bloated by new users only asking for more foreign mods. It’s discouraging.
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Re: Can we talk about the current state of the NBA 2k19 Modding Section?

Postby knightsco17 on Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:14 pm

I agree with you about the feedback, I have been one who in the past, used to download silently, but now I see how much a simple thank you means to the modders who take so much time out. Im trying to be better on that front. I believe i've even used quite a bit of your mods, so thank you for your countless hours spent making 2k better for all of us on here.

Now on to the thread; I for one, am glad that we have a single forum to ask certain users with access to these sites, to download and share their cf's, globals, courts, etc. Especially when these sites sometimes share NLSC mods without any credit to authors. I don't believe having it is a negative at all. Now let's say, if we get to a point where we are creating new threads every time someone wanted a chinese cf or mod, then I would agree 100%.

I believe we can talk about improving the thread, or even moving it to a new location. For improvements, we could have the first post on the thread showing a list of all the previously uploaded cf's, along with the download link, to prevent the numerous amounts of people asking for the same thing. Or we could have a separate section on the site for foreign sites, so that the nlsc authors are in a separate spot entirely.

Just my two cents, and I believe no one meant to discourage anyone, were just all here trying to make our 2k look amazing :)
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Re: Can we talk about the current state of the NBA 2k19 Modding Section?

Postby bluejaybrandon on Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:37 pm

I really like the idea of having those that have been shared previously in one big section. It just blows my mind to see people requesting work on that thread from a user like Mr. Star and then two posts down is Mr. Star’s thread on NLSC. I’m don’t want to come across like my badmouthing the foreign mods, as I’ve used some myself. I just think when people rely heavily on that thread, to the detriment of the overall NLSC, it can be a problem.

I guess the big picture idea is to just encourage users to explore threads. Something you want may already be on here.

Thanks for the feedback. Really happy to be having a discussion about it.
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Re: Can we talk about the current state of the NBA 2k19 Modding Section?

Postby Andrew on Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:15 pm

Definitely a conversation worth having, both this and other issues facing our modding community. I've gone ahead and dedicated this week's Monday Tip-Off to doing just that: https://www.nba-live.com/mto-future-modding-community/

It's a delicate situation because as I said in the article, some things are difficult to curb without setting rules that seem draconian, and often just drive people away. I do think we need to be more supportive of each other, and encourage the modders within our own community. I also think that the ad links are becoming more and more of an issue, and I believe we should be moving towards Patreon and tip jars.

One solution would be consolidating requests for external content into single topics as much as possible, where they could serve as a handy reference for people trying to track down releases from elsewhere. I don't think we need any extra sections. We used to have multiple modding sections (Releases & Previews, Help & Requests), but it got to the point where people weren't using the separate section for help and requests, and because the activity wasn't there, people kept posting everything in the releases section anyway, and the cycle repeated.

There's also a trend for people to do the opposite of whatever the current approach is. For example, when we specified help and requests in the main section and only releases and previews in Releases & Previews, people went ahead and posted requests and such in the Releases section anyway. As soon as we went to a central Modding section, people started posting requests and help topics in the main section instead of Modding. As you can imagine it's frustrating, because it means whatever solution we go with, there seems to be a group of people determined to keep posting in the wrong section, even when we change things to make it easier for them. That's just how it goes with forums, unfortunately.
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Re: Can we talk about the current state of the NBA 2k19 Modding Section?

Postby Torogi on Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:12 am

Ive been visiting this site since 2k13 just to download, started to learn modding for 2k14. Just made an account in 2017 ive seen lot of good creators here.
Some Modders already losing interest looks like they are saying creators here cant produce same or better quality mods, one member here just after the revenue. Putting adlink to others work,when notice he will stop but after a while hes back again to hes old ways.
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Re: Can we talk about the current state of the NBA 2k19 Modding Section?

Postby PeacemanNOT on Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:51 am

It seems like requests have always been an issue on this forum. Like Andrew said, having a seperate section usually leads to it getting ignored (kind of like how the tutorial section is often forgotten about), but having them mixed is just leading to constantly bumped threads overshadowing creators that deserve recognition.

As for ad.fly links I honestly feel like they should be banned, or at least introduce a rule that says you can only have 1 ad fly link on your mod. I used to use them but I always felt like a hypocrite considering how much I hated them myself.

I also never really like the mixture of all modding topics rather than just previews and releases, but I understand why it was done.
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Re: Can we talk about the current state of the NBA 2k19 Modding Section?

Postby Andrew on Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:20 pm

It's unfortunate that having separate sections for requests and the like no longer works as it did many, many years ago. The thing is that a section like that is also dependent on modders going there to offer help and take up requests, and that wasn't happening. With that in mind, I can't blame people for treating the Releases & Previews sections like the place to post all modding-related topics (as it's now become), otherwise they'd almost never get an answer.

I think the only way it could possibly work is if we had a central Modding category, broken down into Releases & Previews, Requests, Help & Development, and Tutorials, that was open to every game (rather than each game having its own Modding subsection). If we did that, those other sections might get more attention and activity. That's an idea, but then you've got the issue of confusion as to which game a mod is for (or being requested for) if the topic isn't clearly labelled, and it would end up very cluttered and disorganised; even more so than the current sections. Unfortunately, central modding sections for each of the games is the best solution for now, based on community habits. We can always give other sections a try, but history suggests that I'd be merging them again pretty quickly after they went ignored, so I'm reluctant to do so knowing how it's very likely to turn out. It all comes down to what the community is willing to do as a whole.

We could possibly make use of some stickied threads for tracking down external releases, fixing links, and soliciting requests, but it's never a good idea to clutter up a board with too many stickied threads. Furthermore, there's a strange phenomenon where people actually ignore stickied threads because they're stickied, rather than paying attention to them as intended. You also don't want to be too strict about it and force people to only use those threads, because it can come across as draconian and further discourage people from taking part at all. I think our previous Sliders stickies stand as a good example of that; people often just ignored them, and felt put off by having to keep any and all slider discussion in those threads. It helps to have catch-all threads to post in, but it can also feel restrictive, even if there isn't a strict rule about it. Once again though, it's worth a try.

The ad.fly issue is a delicate one. In theory, I wouldn't have a problem saying no more of them, because they are getting problematic. The issue is that if you do that, some people are just not going to post their work here anymore, especially if it's implemented immediately as a drastic no exceptions, zero tolerance rule. Having a rule about one ad link is probably more feasible and a good idea, but then if people are hosting their work externally and linking us to their own websites, it's difficult to police what happens off-site without overstepping bounds. There's only so much we can control and enforce, so I feel a lot of it has to come down to changing attitudes and modding culture (for lack of a better term) so that it's less of an issue.

It's worth discussing these matters though, and the dialogue should continue. However, it's important to note the challenges we face here, and thus evaluate the feasibility of the proposed solutions. That's what I've tried to do here, and with that in mind, perhaps we can come up with some other ideas.
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Re: Can we talk about the current state of the NBA 2k19 Modding Section?

Postby bluejaybrandon on Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:29 am

Is it possible to just limit requests to individual threads? Then actual creators are getting bumped (albeit not based on their content but its something). Individual request threads can be deleted. For example, there are currently several threads on the Modding section that broadly request a single player. In my opinion, that's a waste of space. If they want a new Luka Doncic cyberface, request it from the creator who's style you prefer on their individual thread. This both promotes the best creators and discourages clutter.

99% of the time these threads are a single request followed by a single response with a link to another thread. That's its own problem because people aren't taking the time to look themselves and want to be spoonfed. Anyways I think the removal of individual requests and requiring requests of individual modders would be better.
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Re: Can we talk about the current state of the NBA 2k19 Modding Section?

Postby TGsoGood on Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:05 am

This is a great discussion thread. Hopefully we can continue to educate the users of this site so that they can get the most out of this site without creating clutter.
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Re: Can we talk about the current state of the NBA 2k19 Modding Section?

Postby Andrew on Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:58 pm

bluejaybrandon wrote:Is it possible to just limit requests to individual threads? Then actual creators are getting bumped (albeit not based on their content but its something). Individual request threads can be deleted. For example, there are currently several threads on the Modding section that broadly request a single player. In my opinion, that's a waste of space. If they want a new Luka Doncic cyberface, request it from the creator who's style you prefer on their individual thread. This both promotes the best creators and discourages clutter.

99% of the time these threads are a single request followed by a single response with a link to another thread. That's its own problem because people aren't taking the time to look themselves and want to be spoonfed. Anyways I think the removal of individual requests and requiring requests of individual modders would be better.


We can try making use of central threads for requests, if that's what you mean. The problem is they tend to be ignored (ironically if they're stickied; it's a really weird phenomenon), and they also rely on modders being willing to check them out and respond to them, or other people regularly browsing them to assist with content off-site, as the case may be. It's definitely something we can try, though.
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Re: Can we talk about the current state of the NBA 2k19 Modding Section?

Postby bluejaybrandon on Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:50 am

Andrew wrote:
bluejaybrandon wrote:Is it possible to just limit requests to individual threads? Then actual creators are getting bumped (albeit not based on their content but its something). Individual request threads can be deleted. For example, there are currently several threads on the Modding section that broadly request a single player. In my opinion, that's a waste of space. If they want a new Luka Doncic cyberface, request it from the creator who's style you prefer on their individual thread. This both promotes the best creators and discourages clutter.

99% of the time these threads are a single request followed by a single response with a link to another thread. That's its own problem because people aren't taking the time to look themselves and want to be spoonfed. Anyways I think the removal of individual requests and requiring requests of individual modders would be better.


We can try making use of central threads for requests, if that's what you mean. The problem is they tend to be ignored (ironically if they're stickied; it's a really weird phenomenon), and they also rely on modders being willing to check them out and respond to them, or other people regularly browsing them to assist with content off-site, as the case may be. It's definitely something we can try, though.



I like that option most, but as a compromise I was more talking about limiting requests to individual creator threads. For example, if you want me to do a tattoo update, ask in my thread. If you want Torgi to make Luka Doncic, ask in his thread, if you want Shuajota to focus on heat players, ask in his thread. This at least bumps those creators content.

Currently, some users are creating a thread with the title “Luka Doncic Cyberface Request”. It’s basically just a shotgun request that falls on deaf ears. I’d rather see individuals request from specific creators over just new, individual, broad request threads that clog the natural flow of content from excellent creators.
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Re: Can we talk about the current state of the NBA 2k19 Modding Section?

Postby Andrew on Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:03 pm

I think that would be a good approach. It'd be difficult to have an inflexible rule about it without being draconian, but at the very least, we could strongly encourage that and get people in the habit of doing it.

We'd need to determine which modders are willing to take requests, though. From there, perhaps we could have a pinned thread explaining who is accepting requests, and directing people to the release threads where they can make their requests.
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