NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

[StyxTx]

With 2k's history, I wouldn't be in the least bit shocked if the graphic downgrading was a ploy created by 2k & the next gen console makers to force 2k players to buy the new consoles to get the "full benefit" of NBA 2k graphics (for a monetary reward from console makers), even though those "full benefits" can actually be used on the current systems. That's how skeptical I've become of the NBA 2k "developers", a term I use very loosely.

Like Dee, I also have to say that with all the games out with super graphics, to think that 2k had to scale back on theirs is ridiculous. I do have a high end PC and graphic card and I never had any issues with graphics on any NBA 2k with all the setting maxed out.

[bongo88]

With 2k's history, I wouldn't be in the least bit shocked if the graphic downgrading was a ploy created by 2k & the next gen console makers to force 2k players to buy the new consoles to get the "full benefit" of NBA 2k graphics (for a monetary reward from console makers), even though those "full benefits" can actually be used on the current systems. That's how skeptical I've become of the NBA 2k "developers", a term I use very loosely.

Like Dee, I also have to say that with all the games out with super graphics, to think that 2k had to scale back on theirs is ridiculous. I do have a high end PC and graphic card and I never had any issues with graphics on any NBA 2k with all the setting maxed out.

sigh, the replies in this thread are filled with ignorance concerning hardware limitations. Yes StyxTx, i have considered the conspiracy theorem about downgrading the graphics to "boost" the next gen graphics marketing.
The only problem with that is the ps4 is pushed to the limit with current 2k titles.
https://www.google.com/search?q=reddit+ ... fox-b-1-ab

Now, it matters not that these are subjective, what matters is that relative to other titles, 2k games max out the hardware on current consoles. the cpu/gpu running near maximum produces more heat, which makes the fan turn faster. thus, more of the hardware is being utilized.
there isn't much graphically to the 2k games (compared to horizon dawn or monster hunter world). But the first drastic stadium reduction came with 2k18, which required a new motion system. A more advanced motion system is related to every aspect of gameplay computations, and those computations have to be instant. that is why the cpu took a big hit (the number of computations and the speed of computations). Thus, they drastically reduced the stadium lighting to free up gpu resources for these new cpu cycles.

If they have added more cpu cycles to the backend (better defense reaction.... better rebounding... better speed with system interatcion, etc) then a cut in stadium lighting is required to free up more gpu resources to assist the cpu in these computations. the next gen is in a year or two, they will probably have a variant of the new ryzen cpus, and the ryzen cpus are very impressive.

Here's Da_Czar talking about it.... a quote and video if your interested in these backend stuffs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG0Rlez ... .be&t=1741

Quote from Da_Czar Video:
"The [inaudible] he thinks, ugh, they think, that the next big jump for AI will be the ability for it to recognize the other players strengths and weaknesses and not get in each others way while running. Uh, yeah, actually, those are like two different things. Our AI is smart enough to recognize the others person's ability, but the thing is that, right, now, we just put in that new Motion System, right. And it is in motion right now--It doesn't know how to handle these different situations of Avoidance, right, and Avoidance System is a completely different system than the Motion System, but it needs to work with it. And, ugh, that's not simple stuff to code. Right. So, conceptually you are right, that is the next level. Our AI can handle it. It's the rest of the systems in the game, can they handle it? Can they give us the movement we need once the AI recognizes that oh, yo, this guys at this, this is what he is gonna do, like, we can deduce that information. But, can we feed that to the motion system in time for it to make another decision to feed that into the Off-ball Collision System or the Avoidance System, and then once it comes out of that, it hands it back to the AI...."

in my opinion, 2k14 - 2k17 built the underlying AI Framework .... and it was paired with the systems (motion, collision, avoidance, etc ) of previous gen. (2k11 - 2k13). Now with those goals accomplished, they have to bring up the other systems to par. 2k14 was the best graphical year.... yet every year from 2k14 - 2k19 they have slashed graphics in one way or another to help support the weak jaguar cpus.

In regards to Dee4Three... i will post a thread. I have shared my conjectures. You claim my screenshots are not relevant. here is a link. watch the videos. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... 9+gameplay they are all the same. The stadiums are neutered even further. we will know for sure when the game is released. My thread will be a couple months off, but if they slash stadium even further, the resources went somewhere. Hardware resources dont simply evaporate.

A. Oversized heads flooding the league
B. Less body types
C. Players having hardly any definition and looking like clay
D. Unrealistically dark arenas
E. Jersey color/style inaccuracies flooding the current and classic teams
F. The ball being the wrong color for years
G. Reflections basically all but being removed

these things, you and I have discussed in the past. here is the link: viewtopic.php?f=231&t=105212

You have forgotten.

I will go through the list, because you keep spouting the same prejudices over and over without critcially thinking about these things.

A. Oversized heads flooding the league..... sigh, remember, new animation require new skeletons. whether the mesh adapts perfectly to the new skeleton depends on each game. (oblivion mesh/skeleton combo do not work with skyrim mesh/skeleton, yet they are the same engine, gamebryo. Are these a perfect automated adaption? or do they need to be tweaked by hand?
B. Less body types ---- they cut that in 2k17. why? perhaps to save resources ? perhaps not.
C. Players having hardly any definition and looking like clay --- again, is the mesh a simple auto port... or do they need to be hand adapted. Thinking on the matter, you rarely bring up the absolutely horrible face meshes of 2k14- 2k17 because it does not fit your narrative. Perhaps the modeling artists they had worked on making faces better. Now, i haven't gone through to check the vertice count for 2k14 vs 2k18 ( or even 2k17 vs 2k18) but, now that you mention it, i will definitely load them into blender and take a count and post it in my longer thread.
D. Unrealistically dark arenas --- the screenshots above discuss the arenas. And the thread I will make will discuss how dark shading an arena allows for less gpu load.
E. Jersey color/style inaccuracies flooding the current and classic teams ---
F. The ball being the wrong color for years --- the jersey's and ball peaceman mentioned once that they are still using assets from 2k14. interesting. Actually, now that i think about it, i'll have to dig into the rgb of nba live 18 vs 2k18 jerseys and ball color. both games are a bit off. I have my own conspiracy theory about those things relating to the NBA ... but that's just pure conspiracy
G. Reflections basically all but being removed --- perhaps to lessen gpu load.

Every single item point to lessening the gpu load to bolster the cpu. Even E and F... resources from 2k14 (perhaps peaceman not will talk about that) help reduce GPU load. Every point you have made fits my conjectures. They all point to lessening the gpu load.
None has been so drastic as the change from 2k18 to 2k19 in stadium lighting.
The problem with 2kbasketball stadium is that they load 3d models that all require shading and lighting, which loads the gpu. Madden does not have this problem because they are still using 2d sprites as their stadium people. It really surprised me as i have started to see if i'm interested in madden 19 (probably wont buy it due to the games limitations) but there is no way console gpu could render those madden stadiums with 3d models. thus madden cut back, from the looks of it, with either 2d sprites or a very low poly 3d model.

I have said it many times, and will say it again. We are in the middle of the dev cycle where they have moved from graphics and are implementing long term back end simulation frameworks. graphic lighting are easily tweaked. i can make a skyrim enb preset in an hour-- change the whole lighting. I can also change the 2k18 lighting with a few numbers in hex. The engine is capable of 2k14 lighting, but the cpu is struggling with the backend.

Concerning Horizon Dawn, it does not do the complex , instant, computations in the background about AI. Thus they have more hardware available for graphical fidelity. Comparing the ai of stagnant spawned monsters (usually a checkerboard effect for efficiency) cannot be compared to real-time computations of basketball simulation. the monsters AI pathways and interactions are quite simple. not much cpu required to make the monsters interact with the world/player.

A more comparable release is the new Monster hunter world. Capcom unlocked the complete bioshpere of monster hunter world on PC with full monster interactions on the whole world. They did this because they have the CPU overhead to run those simulations .... and people with weak CPUs are complaining. welcome to next gen.
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/0 ... mance-cpu/
The monster interactions with each other, npc, and players are cpu computations. texture work and meshes, can be unloaded to a GPU when there is a dedicated GPU, like in a pc. A console has different ecosystem with definite limitations. It's been a while since i read up on monster hunter world on consoles, but they have 3 settings, performance, graphical, and another one i cant remember. I thought it interesting they provided different settings depending on what the console player prefers.
Anyways, I have little free time and will share my conjectures in another thread. Like i said, in a month or two i'll post my thread.

I stand by my main thesis:

The one sentance summary is: there will be slight gameplay changes as they tweak the backend, and no graphical increases until the next console is released. It is because of cpu bottleneck in the current consoles.
It is marketing suicide to make that graphical slash (2k18 to 2k19) without hoping to "right the course" within the next year.

Great post Bongo

BUT 2K
- should explain this problem if you're right
- could work harder on the gameplay

the problem, sticky, is that the complete package won't be available for 3 or 4 or 5 years. they implemented the motion system, how long will it take to overhaul the rebound system or the collision system? you should browse Da_Czar videos.... its quite interesting.

Anyways, it will be a while. it is just something to think about.
Have a good day.

[Dee4Three]

Absolutely nothing you said makes me change my stance on anything. It literally changes nothing.

In fact, it makes me 100% stand by my original stance about these current gen systems being able to handle the mentioned issues, especially the ones I listed that were lettered.

Absolutley not worth talking about anymore.

[sticky-fingers]

Basicly, the good point of this thread is that finally you learn how to answer without quote

I can also change the 2k18 lighting with a few numbers in hex. The engine is capable of 2k14 lighting, but the cpu is struggling with the backend.

How ?! Could you explain that in a dedicated thread ?
BTW v-sync impacts drasticly performances ; it's night and day with a gsync monitor

[TGsoGood]

bongo88 I look forward to your thread in a few months.

[StyxTx]

sigh, the replies in this thread are filled with ignorance concerning hardware limitations. Yes StyxTx, i have considered the conspiracy theorem about downgrading the graphics to "boost" the next gen graphics marketing.
The only problem with that is the ps4 is pushed to the limit with current 2k titles.
https://www.google.com/search?q=reddit+ ... fox-b-1-ab

Well, since you have no idea what the extent of my knowledge is, I'll just let you think what you want. However, when I say my PC has had no issues with ANY game's graphics, I mean it. Every game I have has the graphic settings on ultra-high, or whatever the highest level is, and I have no problems.

Before they cut back on the graphics with NBA 2k, I had NO problems. This is fact whether you want to believe it or not.

But if what you say is true, maybe 2k should stop trying to improve graphics ( there isn't much wrong with it) and work on the game play which pretty much sucks. That would be a novel approach.

[PeacemanNOT]

Did you just say that you could change the lighting? Jesus if you actually can please do, that would be amazing.

In regards to your post, all the stuff you’re saying is plausible. Doesn’t mean it’s true but I’d still like to hear more, looking forward to your thread.

[Vlad2010]

I can also change the 2k18 lighting with a few numbers in hex. The engine is capable of 2k14 lighting, but the cpu is struggling with the backend.

So, is that possible on nba 2k15?

[Dee4Three]

You guys clamouring for this... really?

First off, the "2K17 to 2K18" crowd lighting that was discovered this year didn't look like 2K17 at all, I noticed hardly any difference.

Second, if that's the case, and the CPU could easily handle the change, it's once again proving that the rest of his rant is nothing but a rant. The whole premise is that he is saying the GPU can't handle all the processes at once, which is why they reduced the graphics so much. So whether the lighting could be enhanced via hex editing or not, that has nothing to do with the consoles/systems not being able to handle more realistic lighting (I can't believe I have to say this stuff)

You guys do realize that some of the stuff he is saying doesn't make any sense for these consoles, correct? He made an excuse for almost every letter I posed (that didn't have to do with the hair movement or jersey movement).

I played 2K14 for PS4 last night, the graphics are mind blowing. The jerseys move, the CROWD is animating constantly (unlike in the newer 2K's where they are basically not moving or barely moving all game), the reflections and lighting are out of this world realistic and beautiful, a couple of the body types look freaking awesome, the presentation is great, and the defense/movement around the floor feels a lot better.

Again, THE CROWD, which can be a huge hit to FPS in these games, is constantly moving in 2K14, and with all of the other graphical enhancements it's still running perfect, this is in 2013. The fact that I am having to read those posts, and actually debate this in 2018 when it's OBVIOUS that the graphics have downgraded and it's not because of system limitations, actually makes me quite frustrated.

The lighting got far better on 2K17 thsn on 2K15, so again your argument doesn't support that at all. These consoles were able to produce 2K14 like it was, and 2k18 and possibly 2K19 can't even get close? Please.

Madden 19 (which I bought two nights ago) just introduced RPM, a completely new motion system. The presentation in Madden is unreal, the lighting during broadcast and close up is top notch, literally looks like a real game. Yes, frostbite, but it's on THE SAME PLATFORMS. Just like with Live making lighting a priority (and the players looking more like athletes), Live is on the same consoles. Live will be releasing soon with a completely new motion system (RPM), and you can bet the lighting will be far better (as we have already seen some of it in the gameplay footage). Live 19 is not using Frostbite, either. Guys... people... friends.... it isn't a system limitation that is causing these graphic downgrades..

And when you defended the oversized heads, it made me start thinking you were trolling. That's an effort issue, or they didn't make it a priority, just like overall the body types, lighting, reflections, etc have not been a big priority.

It doesn't have to do with system limitations, it has to do with company priority. This is ridiculous.

[sticky-fingers]

It's you who's trolling on this forum, repeating over and over again your poor arguments on mostly every thread of 2K18, and now 2K19.

2K has too be bash for many things, but on other side, i find you're very tolerant with EA, that is not a non-profit organization.

[Dee4Three]

It's you who's trolling on this forum, repeating over and over again your poor arguments on mostly every thread of 2K18, and now 2K19.

2K has too be bash for many things, but on other side, i find you're very tolerant with EA, that is not a non-profit organization.

I'm not trolling at all. I'm being realistic and combating excuses that are made for downgrades in several areas.

Tolerant with EA? I went back and forth with Kingpnp and others for AWHILE in regards to the animation issues (stiff shoulders, robotic movements, etc), I uploaded videos of the issues as well, and the dev team looked at it (ThaLiveKing will absolutley remember that). I've talked about the limited franchise mode, about the animation issues, about the lack of customization, etc.

Me being critical of 2K is valid, and my not wanting excuses that make no sense made for them is also valid and the exact opposite of trolling.

[TGsoGood]

Anybody think we will see JR Smith's new leg tattoo make it in the game?

[Roberto]

Anybody think we will see JR Smith's new leg tattoo make it in the game?

[ Image ]

Man, I think many players will not have tattoo updates. In the trailer, Wall, Collins, Dejounte and others for example. Modders will have a lot of work...

[eirik]

Anybody think we will see JR Smith's new leg tattoo make it in the game?

[ Image ]

I doubt it, brand tattoos often don't make it into video games e.g. CM Punk in the UFC and WWE games

[I Hate Mondays]

Anybody think we will see JR Smith's new leg tattoo make it in the game?

[ Image ]

Hah, no way. It took them like 3 years to add Lillard's chest tattoo and he is the face of a franchise.

[ConfigSys]

Did you just say that you could change the lighting? Jesus if you actually can please do, that would be amazing.

In regards to your post, all the stuff you’re saying is plausible. Doesn’t mean it’s true but I’d still like to hear more, looking forward to your thread.

bongo88 If it's relay true please do that it's could be game changing

and i will test my 8700k@5Ghz + 1080Ti OC.....

[voidjointx]

Will be waiting for that 2k14 lighting

[Sith]

Please, stop talkng about current gen consoles weakness, cmon bro. It's so frustrating. While NBA 2k14-18 runs 1080p in 60 fps on basic PS4 and truly 2160p in 60fps on ps4 pro, you are talking how bad these consoles are. The whole problem is in 2K and it's marketing plan. As for lighting. Arenas lighting in real since 2017-2018 realy became more dark. Not all and not as much as 2K do. While other studios make good games with beautiful graphics for ps4, VС make the same crap every year. So who is weak in this situation? Consoles? I don't think so.

[Midas Touch]

Will be waiting for that 2k14 lighting

Honestly

[sticky-fingers]

Will be waiting for that 2k14 lighting

Honestly

Have you Seen bongo's works on scoreboards ?!

[Roberto]

So many days without new screenshots...

[DEIRRA]

Estoy de acuerdo, realmente echo de menos la iluminación 2K14.

[sticky-fingers]

So many days without new screenshots...

[Roberto]

So many days without new screenshots...

[ Image ]

https://media.giphy.com/media/DYH297XiCS2Ck/giphy.gif

[Roberto]

So many days without new screenshots...

[ Image ]

Wow, Griffin looks great!!!!