NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby bluejaybrandon on Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:26 am

Midas Touch wrote:
TwisT wrote:[ Image ]


Crazy Kuzma is only one rating higher than someone who’s never played a game in the nba :?


I had that comment all typed out earlier and figured it wasn't worth the effort but screw it...2k's ratings are all messed up. They've fallen into a system where they don't want to hurt player's feelings with ratings so they dish out ratings that aren't earned. Ronnie 2k is even on twitter telling players to DM him about their ratings. It's a joke.

Meanwhile Trae Young tweets that he's underrated at 77 overall and now has something to prove. Boi, you haven't played a real NBA minute and you're a single point lower than Josh Richardson, an NBA rotation player, and 3rd-year pro. 2k's ratings are a popularity contest at this point. Any "statistical data" and "formulas" that they used to be based on has gone out the window. Thank goodness there are people that actually address this with real roster ratings each year.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Midas Touch on Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:08 am

bluejaybrandon wrote:
Midas Touch wrote:
TwisT wrote:[ Image ]


Crazy Kuzma is only one rating higher than someone who’s never played a game in the nba :?


I had that comment all typed out earlier and figured it wasn't worth the effort but screw it...2k's ratings are all messed up. They've fallen into a system where they don't want to hurt player's feelings with ratings so they dish out ratings that aren't earned. Ronnie 2k is even on twitter telling players to DM him about their ratings. It's a joke.

Meanwhile Trae Young tweets that he's underrated at 77 overall and now has something to prove. Boi, you haven't played a real NBA minute and you're a single point lower than Josh Richardson, an NBA rotation player, and 3rd-year pro. 2k's ratings are a popularity contest at this point. Any "statistical data" and "formulas" that they used to be based on has gone out the window. Thank goodness there are people that actually address this with real roster ratings each year.


I totally feel the same way it’s kind of a load of Bs how they just put they’re ratings at anything when every year since 2K16 it seems like Demar’s rating never changes and it’s crazy to me that Kawhi only played 9 Games and yet he’s rated higher than Demar I just wont ever understand their rating system :facepalm2:
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby sticky-fingers on Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:45 am

All these useless debates about ratings feed the marketing hype.
After 1 week of Regular Season, 2K will adjust everything in a better way (but it will be still not perfect).

http://www.2kratings.com/nba2k19/lonzo-ball
http://www.2kratings.com/nba2k19/jayson-tatum
http://www.2kratings.com/nba2k19/donovan-mitchell

But we still have no news about gameplay.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Andrew on Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:41 pm

It seemed they were onto a good and logical approach with the ratings a couple of years ago, but it doesn't seem like it's being adhered to anymore. Gone are the days when we'd see benchwarmers who are barely holding onto a roster spot rated in the 50s (or even lower).
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby JEDL on Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:25 pm

I really wish they'd scrap overalls or at least lower their importance since raw talent isn't everything. It is really hard to quantify a player's skill and conclusively say "yep, he better than dis boi lol" when there are more things to consider.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dommy73 on Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:10 pm

Andrew wrote:Gone are the days when we'd see benchwarmers who are barely holding onto a roster spot rated in the 50s (or even lower).


Now we see players with rating 60 being starters in MyCareer :lol:

JEDL wrote:I really wish they'd scrap overalls or at least lower their importance since raw talent isn't everything. It is really hard to quantify a player's skill and conclusively say "yep, he better than dis boi lol" when there are more things to consider.


To an extent they do this in various ways in the game itself, but they obviously keep to the overall rating especially during preview season.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Andrew on Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:08 pm

And that's definitely another issue. MyCAREER's story makes you out to be a big deal, but that seems silly when you're barely rated better than the worst players in the league. There needs to be a satisfyingly long journey (and they're going to want to push microtransactions, let's not mince words about that), but as it stands it's too much of a grind, and at odds with the narrative.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dommy73 on Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:31 pm

Yeah, I just started Live 18, because why not, I was frustrated with 2K18 for a while. I like the beginning so far. When I look past the stiffness it's actually very fun.
And they actually rate you 70 overall but still send you to play in the street tournaments etc.

I think there was a bit more thought put into the story there.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Andrew on Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:27 pm

The higher starting rating and less intrusive story are much better approaches. Depth of modes and gameplay need to make advances - and it does seem like NBA Live 19 is making some big steps in that regard - but the concepts are solid, especially since there aren't any pay-to-win mechanics in The One. Not to beat a dead horse, but it really has impacted MyCAREER and the connected experiences, and not in a positive way.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dommy73 on Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:44 pm

I'm worried that the dead horse is about to be reanimated on September 7th and 11th respectively.

I'll probably get the Live 19 on release and the 2K19 on Christmas if the reviews will be great. If not I'm pretty sure they'll put it in Humble Monthly next year again anyway.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Andrew on Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:16 pm

For sure, those concerns remain valid. Sometimes I feel I harp on it though, between the Podcast, articles, and Forum posts.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby PeacemanNOT on Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:05 am

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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:59 am

Now that we have seen the trailer, its clear that the shine on the players is post-processing in photoshop. The players do not look like that in game.

I would be willing to be that if you zoomed in on instant replay, that the players would not have that shine. Just like many pointed out with the Giannis teaser in comparison to the video, the game doesn't actually look like that.

The only was is if you look at the player from underneath them (Like in all the player previews) that the rafter lights shine down on the player giving them a slight glow. Still, I don't think it's anywhere close (Or at all) like the screenshots.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby brynteric on Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:06 am

Feeling like bring the graphics back to 10 years ago, no offense, see some TBT 2k6,2k7
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:11 am

brynteric wrote:Feeling like bring the graphics back to 10 years ago, no offense, see some TBT 2k6,2k7
[ Image ]


Not wrong... the body types seemed to be better as well (Players looked like athletes). The lighting and atmosphere was better as well.

Remember in 2K6 when the hair moved? (Nash would be running down the court, and his hair would be flopping around), and the jerseys had more movement. Unreal that a generation of consoles later, that the hair movement doesn't exist, and the jersey movement has been drastically cut down. I dont want to hear that the new systems cant handle it, it was handles 13 yeasrs ago by the last gen consoles. Also, i've heard people say that they took out things like that, and took out reflections etc to improve performace. So why did we have this on last gen? and why did 2K14 for this gen have all those goodies with the better graphics?

Doesnt make sense.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby brynteric on Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:23 am

Dee4Three wrote:
brynteric wrote:Feeling like bring the graphics back to 10 years ago, no offense, see some TBT 2k6,2k7
[ Image ]


Not wrong... the body types seemed to be better as well (Players looked like athletes). The lighting and atmosphere was better as well.

Remember in 2K6 when the hair moved? (Nash would be running down the court, and his hair would be flopping around), and the jerseys had more movement. Unreal that a generation of consoles later, that the hair movement doesn't exist, and the jersey movement has been drastically cut down. I dont want to hear that the new systems cant handle it, it was handles 13 yeasrs ago by the last gen consoles. Also, i've heard people say that they took out things like that, and took out reflections etc to improve performace. So why did we have this on last gen? and why did 2K14 for this gen have all those goodies with the better graphics?

Doesnt make sense.

Maybe that's how these producers play the game XD
The initiation has been shifted from making a REALER basketball game to a PROFITABLER segment
Don't make me wrong, I have been a 2K fan since very first day back to the first time I started playing this game which was 13 years ago and did patching for 5, 6 years.
All I can say is no love, no hate, I will not hate 2K but just feeling like a underground supporter who desires to see his favorite team back to its dynasty.
I wish EA can be that X Factor in this game and beat 2K so that they will know how to make it right cuz otherwise they will lose their market.
It's all about benefiting each other but depending in which way they put their effort on, who knows.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby [Q] on Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:36 am

Dee4Three wrote:Now that we have seen the trailer, its clear that the shine on the players is post-processing in photoshop. The players do not look like that in game.

I would be willing to be that if you zoomed in on instant replay, that the players would not have that shine. Just like many pointed out with the Giannis teaser in comparison to the video, the game doesn't actually look like that.

The only was is if you look at the player from underneath them (Like in all the player previews) that the rafter lights shine down on the player giving them a slight glow. Still, I don't think it's anywhere close (Or at all) like the screenshots.

This happens a lot of times with other games where they post doctored screenshots or show video where at the bottom it says not actual gameplay
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Andrew on Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:39 am

"Bullshot" and "bullshotting" being the terms originated/popularised by Penny Arcade all those years ago.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby bongo88 on Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:49 am

Dee4Three wrote:I dont want to hear that the new systems cant handle it, it was handles 13 yeasrs ago by the last gen consoles. Also, i've heard people say that they took out things like that, and took out reflections etc to improve performace. So why did we have this on last gen? and why did 2K14 for this gen have all those goodies with the better graphics?

Doesnt make sense.


The current console systems absolutely cannot handled the framework, motion systems, and other backend computations (remember, these computations must be calculated very quickly on a weak jaguar cpu)
The slash of graphics from 2k18 to 2k19 is a result of a cpu bottleneck. They shaded the crowd even more (2k17 -> 2k18 -> 2k19) to reduce gpu usage on graphics so that they could harness that excess gpu power to help compute cpu processes.
see the images below:
image 1
Image

image2
Image

image3
Image

album link (containing full size images): https://imgur.com/a/ZKKD0Tv

I have a much longer post that i'm working on (will create its own thread), but my free time has been strained so i'll just post here a preview

Relevant scourses and quotes:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digi ... e-in-depth
Adding to the list of enhancements, Microsoft increased performance in CPU/GPU coherency and enhanced and improved the speed of the GPU command processor to offload a lot of work from the CPU too, specifically with DirectX 12 engines.


http://mrmgroup.cs.princeton.edu/papers ... HPCA13.pdf
In it, general-purpose (non-graphics) computational
kernels are offloaded from a host CPU to a nearby GPU in
order to improve the runtime, throughput, or performance-
per-watt of the computation as compared to the original CPU
implementation.

Will post the new thread later when i get the analysis finished. Anyways, what 2k is having to do is transfer more gpu power to help the struggling jaguar cpu (they were always considered weak). With the next gen consoles a year off (according to rumors), once again, in this dev cycle they are implementing more backend stuffs in preperation for more power (gpu/cpu) in the next cosole. both madden and nba 2k have done this --- according to my speculation, obviously.

The one sentance summary is: there will be slight gameplay changes as they tweak the backend, and no graphical increases until the next console is released. It is because of cpu bottleneck in the current consoles.

It is marketing suicide to make that graphical slash (2k18 to 2k19) without hoping to "right the course" within the next year. The current consoles' hardware have been pushed to their limits.
anyways, i got more articles and stuffs. But the new thread will be a ways off due to my schedule becoming rather full.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby sticky-fingers on Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:23 am

Great post Bongo (Y)

BUT 2K
- should explain this problem if you're right
- could work harder on the gameplay
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:21 am

bongo88 wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:I dont want to hear that the new systems cant handle it, it was handles 13 yeasrs ago by the last gen consoles. Also, i've heard people say that they took out things like that, and took out reflections etc to improve performace. So why did we have this on last gen? and why did 2K14 for this gen have all those goodies with the better graphics?

Doesnt make sense.


The current console systems absolutely cannot handled the framework, motion systems, and other backend computations (remember, these computations must be calculated very quickly on a weak jaguar cpu)
The slash of graphics from 2k18 to 2k19 is a result of a cpu bottleneck. They shaded the crowd even more (2k17 -> 2k18 -> 2k19) to reduce gpu usage on graphics so that they could harness that excess gpu power to help compute cpu processes.
see the images below:
image 1
[ Image ]

image2
[ Image ]

image3
[ Image ]

album link (containing full size images): https://imgur.com/a/ZKKD0Tv

I have a much longer post that i'm working on (will create its own thread), but my free time has been strained so i'll just post here a preview

Relevant scourses and quotes:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digi ... e-in-depth
Adding to the list of enhancements, Microsoft increased performance in CPU/GPU coherency and enhanced and improved the speed of the GPU command processor to offload a lot of work from the CPU too, specifically with DirectX 12 engines.


http://mrmgroup.cs.princeton.edu/papers ... HPCA13.pdf
In it, general-purpose (non-graphics) computational
kernels are offloaded from a host CPU to a nearby GPU in
order to improve the runtime, throughput, or performance-
per-watt of the computation as compared to the original CPU
implementation.

Will post the new thread later when i get the analysis finished. Anyways, what 2k is having to do is transfer more gpu power to help the struggling jaguar cpu (they were always considered weak). With the next gen consoles a year off (according to rumors), once again, in this dev cycle they are implementing more backend stuffs in preperation for more power (gpu/cpu) in the next cosole. both madden and nba 2k have done this --- according to my speculation, obviously.

The one sentance summary is: there will be slight gameplay changes as they tweak the backend, and no graphical increases until the next console is released. It is because of cpu bottleneck in the current consoles.

It is marketing suicide to make that graphical slash (2k18 to 2k19) without hoping to "right the course" within the next year. The current consoles' hardware have been pushed to their limits.
anyways, i got more articles and stuffs. But the new thread will be a ways off due to my schedule becoming rather full.


Bongo, you have absolutely no basis for this. No facts to back it up. Your screenshot examples of 'shaders" are of a 3rd person account (Picture within a picture) gameplay footage. thats a picture of a tv, not the actual lighting from the game from a first person video. We don't know at all if they slashed the graphics from 2K18 to 2K19, in fact the gameplay trailer suggests that the graphics might be almost exactly the same at 2K18.

Numerous other games on these consoles/PC have hair movement, etc. Horizon Zero Dawn has zero frame rate drops, and it has some of the best overall graphics/gameplay I have ever seen.

The new motion system was just implemented for 2K18. Lets say you are correct (Which you havnt proven in the least) about the hair/jersey movement, that doesn't explain the drop in lighting/reflections, or the clay body types, etc. You are telling me that all of these other games (Including sports games) can have crisp, clean graphics with gorgeous lighting, but this gen console's/PCs can't handle hair movement/jersey movement?

It's 2018, and some of the most impressive games (In most genres) are coming out, the detail graphics/gameplay wise are out of this world. Yes, not all are on the same graphics engine, but to imply that the power of the PS4 and XboxOne can't handle hair movement/jersey movement in 2018 at a stable framerate, or that it can't handle the graphics we had in 2013 with 2K14, is quite the stretch. You would need to provide quite a bit of backup for me to believe that the current system can't handle the processes of the gameplay coupled with the graphics.

I wasn't going to respond to this, but I didn't really want anybody on here getting the idea that 2K's downgrade in graphics/atmosphere has anything to do with system limitations. Even IF hair movement and more jersey movement couldnt be implemented (Which im sure it could), it wouldn't explain the body type situation (cutting body types way down, and the players not looking like athletes, very limited muscle definition), it wouldn't explain the lack of reflections all of a sudden, or the unrealistically dark crowds, the big heads surrounding the league, etc. Also, the gameplay has not only carried on with the legacy issues, but it has added more issues which include skating, blow bys, etc.

I heard all the excuses in the book for the on ball defense, I don't want to hear all the excuses in the book for the downgrade in graphics.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:11 am

Again, lets say "graphical limitations" limits rhe hair movement/jersey movement. It has nothing to do with.

A. Oversized heads flooding the league
B. Less body types
C. Players having hardly any definition and looking like clay
D. Unrealistically dark arenas
E. Jersey color/style inaccuracies flooding the current and classic teams
F. The ball being the wrong color for years
G. Reflections basically all but being removed

The graphical limitations (again, if true) have nothing to do with the legacy issues still being present in the game, the new gameplay issues presented, and the slew of roster issues that are in the game (sim stats being way off, signatures unrealistic, ratings copy and pasted).

So no, I don't think that the new systems are limited processing power wise to handle hair movement/jersey movement. But even if that's the case, it doesn't explain any of the other downgrades and shortcomings.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby sticky-fingers on Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:16 am

Bongo's theory is interesting. For example, with 2K16 - i guess - there was an issue with the crowd level and AA on low/mid end PCs at the release.

BTW as a modder, you saw the amount of files for mostly anything in this game ; sometimes there's even files from previous games inside.
The current gen of consoles can handle games with better graphics. But perhaps 2K graphic engine is not optimized.
Dont forget that PC version is just a console port.

Pershaps you can stand this speech, because 2K should work on optimization, BUT

Dee4Three wrote:I heard all the excuses in the book for the on ball defense, I don't want to hear all the excuses in the book for the downgrade in graphics.

It sounds so dictatorial :cheeky:
if you dont want to debate and let others people share they mind, but impose your opinion, maybe you should consider to do something else.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:19 am

sticky-fingers wrote:Bongo's theory is interesting. For example, with 2K16 - i guess - there was an issue with the crowd level and AA on low/mid end PCs at the release.

BTW as a modder, you saw the amount of files for mostly anything in this game ; sometimes there's even files from previous games inside.
The current gen of consoles can handle games with better graphics. But perhaps 2K graphic engine is not optimized.
Dont forget that PC version is just a console port.

Pershaps you can stand this speech, because 2K should work on optimization, BUT

Dee4Three wrote:I heard all the excuses in the book for the on ball defense, I don't want to hear all the excuses in the book for the downgrade in graphics.

It sounds so dictatorial :cheeky:
if you dont want to debate and let others people share they mind, but impose your opinion, maybe you should consider to do something else.


I heard the excuses about the defense even though I showed video evidence of it. Smoove said in the preview season for this game that 2K18's blow by mechanics ruined online and offline mode, and Mike Wang also stated how big of a problem it was. But with me, I was fought on it constantly, even though it was completely and totally obvious.

I don't mind sharing opinions, but I mind a blatant disregard for evidence.

If Bongo has proof of his claims, so be it. But that should have nothing to do with the other points I mentioned (outside of hair and jerseys)
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:27 am

Also, I'd like to not have this conversation here. Sounds like Bongo will be creating a thread, we can have it over there.

If not, let's do it by PM, that way it doesn't cloud up this thread. If we go the PM route, we can do one with all 3 of us in it, doesn't matter to me.
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