NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby bluejaybrandon on Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:26 am

Midas Touch wrote:
TwisT wrote:[ Image ]


Crazy Kuzma is only one rating higher than someone who’s never played a game in the nba :?


I had that comment all typed out earlier and figured it wasn't worth the effort but screw it...2k's ratings are all messed up. They've fallen into a system where they don't want to hurt player's feelings with ratings so they dish out ratings that aren't earned. Ronnie 2k is even on twitter telling players to DM him about their ratings. It's a joke.

Meanwhile Trae Young tweets that he's underrated at 77 overall and now has something to prove. Boi, you haven't played a real NBA minute and you're a single point lower than Josh Richardson, an NBA rotation player, and 3rd-year pro. 2k's ratings are a popularity contest at this point. Any "statistical data" and "formulas" that they used to be based on has gone out the window. Thank goodness there are people that actually address this with real roster ratings each year.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Midas Touch on Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:08 am

bluejaybrandon wrote:
Midas Touch wrote:
TwisT wrote:[ Image ]


Crazy Kuzma is only one rating higher than someone who’s never played a game in the nba :?


I had that comment all typed out earlier and figured it wasn't worth the effort but screw it...2k's ratings are all messed up. They've fallen into a system where they don't want to hurt player's feelings with ratings so they dish out ratings that aren't earned. Ronnie 2k is even on twitter telling players to DM him about their ratings. It's a joke.

Meanwhile Trae Young tweets that he's underrated at 77 overall and now has something to prove. Boi, you haven't played a real NBA minute and you're a single point lower than Josh Richardson, an NBA rotation player, and 3rd-year pro. 2k's ratings are a popularity contest at this point. Any "statistical data" and "formulas" that they used to be based on has gone out the window. Thank goodness there are people that actually address this with real roster ratings each year.


I totally feel the same way it’s kind of a load of Bs how they just put they’re ratings at anything when every year since 2K16 it seems like Demar’s rating never changes and it’s crazy to me that Kawhi only played 9 Games and yet he’s rated higher than Demar I just wont ever understand their rating system :facepalm2:
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby sticky-fingers on Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:45 am

All these useless debates about ratings feed the marketing hype.
After 1 week of Regular Season, 2K will adjust everything in a better way (but it will be still not perfect).

http://www.2kratings.com/nba2k19/lonzo-ball
http://www.2kratings.com/nba2k19/jayson-tatum
http://www.2kratings.com/nba2k19/donovan-mitchell

But we still have no news about gameplay.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Andrew on Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:41 am

It seemed they were onto a good and logical approach with the ratings a couple of years ago, but it doesn't seem like it's being adhered to anymore. Gone are the days when we'd see benchwarmers who are barely holding onto a roster spot rated in the 50s (or even lower).
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby JEDL on Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:25 pm

I really wish they'd scrap overalls or at least lower their importance since raw talent isn't everything. It is really hard to quantify a player's skill and conclusively say "yep, he better than dis boi lol" when there are more things to consider.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dommy73 on Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:10 pm

Andrew wrote:Gone are the days when we'd see benchwarmers who are barely holding onto a roster spot rated in the 50s (or even lower).


Now we see players with rating 60 being starters in MyCareer :lol:

JEDL wrote:I really wish they'd scrap overalls or at least lower their importance since raw talent isn't everything. It is really hard to quantify a player's skill and conclusively say "yep, he better than dis boi lol" when there are more things to consider.


To an extent they do this in various ways in the game itself, but they obviously keep to the overall rating especially during preview season.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Andrew on Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:08 pm

And that's definitely another issue. MyCAREER's story makes you out to be a big deal, but that seems silly when you're barely rated better than the worst players in the league. There needs to be a satisfyingly long journey (and they're going to want to push microtransactions, let's not mince words about that), but as it stands it's too much of a grind, and at odds with the narrative.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dommy73 on Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:31 pm

Yeah, I just started Live 18, because why not, I was frustrated with 2K18 for a while. I like the beginning so far. When I look past the stiffness it's actually very fun.
And they actually rate you 70 overall but still send you to play in the street tournaments etc.

I think there was a bit more thought put into the story there.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Andrew on Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:27 pm

The higher starting rating and less intrusive story are much better approaches. Depth of modes and gameplay need to make advances - and it does seem like NBA Live 19 is making some big steps in that regard - but the concepts are solid, especially since there aren't any pay-to-win mechanics in The One. Not to beat a dead horse, but it really has impacted MyCAREER and the connected experiences, and not in a positive way.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dommy73 on Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:44 pm

I'm worried that the dead horse is about to be reanimated on September 7th and 11th respectively.

I'll probably get the Live 19 on release and the 2K19 on Christmas if the reviews will be great. If not I'm pretty sure they'll put it in Humble Monthly next year again anyway.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Andrew on Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:16 pm

For sure, those concerns remain valid. Sometimes I feel I harp on it though, between the Podcast, articles, and Forum posts.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby PeacemanNOT on Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:05 pm

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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:59 pm

Now that we have seen the trailer, its clear that the shine on the players is post-processing in photoshop. The players do not look like that in game.

I would be willing to be that if you zoomed in on instant replay, that the players would not have that shine. Just like many pointed out with the Giannis teaser in comparison to the video, the game doesn't actually look like that.

The only was is if you look at the player from underneath them (Like in all the player previews) that the rafter lights shine down on the player giving them a slight glow. Still, I don't think it's anywhere close (Or at all) like the screenshots.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby brynteric on Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:06 am

Feeling like bring the graphics back to 10 years ago, no offense, see some TBT 2k6,2k7
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:11 am

brynteric wrote:Feeling like bring the graphics back to 10 years ago, no offense, see some TBT 2k6,2k7
[ Image ]


Not wrong... the body types seemed to be better as well (Players looked like athletes). The lighting and atmosphere was better as well.

Remember in 2K6 when the hair moved? (Nash would be running down the court, and his hair would be flopping around), and the jerseys had more movement. Unreal that a generation of consoles later, that the hair movement doesn't exist, and the jersey movement has been drastically cut down. I dont want to hear that the new systems cant handle it, it was handles 13 yeasrs ago by the last gen consoles. Also, i've heard people say that they took out things like that, and took out reflections etc to improve performace. So why did we have this on last gen? and why did 2K14 for this gen have all those goodies with the better graphics?

Doesnt make sense.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby brynteric on Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:23 am

Dee4Three wrote:
brynteric wrote:Feeling like bring the graphics back to 10 years ago, no offense, see some TBT 2k6,2k7
[ Image ]


Not wrong... the body types seemed to be better as well (Players looked like athletes). The lighting and atmosphere was better as well.

Remember in 2K6 when the hair moved? (Nash would be running down the court, and his hair would be flopping around), and the jerseys had more movement. Unreal that a generation of consoles later, that the hair movement doesn't exist, and the jersey movement has been drastically cut down. I dont want to hear that the new systems cant handle it, it was handles 13 yeasrs ago by the last gen consoles. Also, i've heard people say that they took out things like that, and took out reflections etc to improve performace. So why did we have this on last gen? and why did 2K14 for this gen have all those goodies with the better graphics?

Doesnt make sense.

Maybe that's how these producers play the game XD
The initiation has been shifted from making a REALER basketball game to a PROFITABLER segment
Don't make me wrong, I have been a 2K fan since very first day back to the first time I started playing this game which was 13 years ago and did patching for 5, 6 years.
All I can say is no love, no hate, I will not hate 2K but just feeling like a underground supporter who desires to see his favorite team back to its dynasty.
I wish EA can be that X Factor in this game and beat 2K so that they will know how to make it right cuz otherwise they will lose their market.
It's all about benefiting each other but depending in which way they put their effort on, who knows.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby [Q] on Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:36 am

Dee4Three wrote:Now that we have seen the trailer, its clear that the shine on the players is post-processing in photoshop. The players do not look like that in game.

I would be willing to be that if you zoomed in on instant replay, that the players would not have that shine. Just like many pointed out with the Giannis teaser in comparison to the video, the game doesn't actually look like that.

The only was is if you look at the player from underneath them (Like in all the player previews) that the rafter lights shine down on the player giving them a slight glow. Still, I don't think it's anywhere close (Or at all) like the screenshots.

This happens a lot of times with other games where they post doctored screenshots or show video where at the bottom it says not actual gameplay
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Andrew on Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:39 am

"Bullshot" and "bullshotting" being the terms originated/popularised by Penny Arcade all those years ago.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby bongo88 on Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:49 am

Dee4Three wrote:I dont want to hear that the new systems cant handle it, it was handles 13 yeasrs ago by the last gen consoles. Also, i've heard people say that they took out things like that, and took out reflections etc to improve performace. So why did we have this on last gen? and why did 2K14 for this gen have all those goodies with the better graphics?

Doesnt make sense.


The current console systems absolutely cannot handled the framework, motion systems, and other backend computations (remember, these computations must be calculated very quickly on a weak jaguar cpu)
The slash of graphics from 2k18 to 2k19 is a result of a cpu bottleneck. They shaded the crowd even more (2k17 -> 2k18 -> 2k19) to reduce gpu usage on graphics so that they could harness that excess gpu power to help compute cpu processes.
see the images below:
image 1
Image

image2
Image

image3
Image

album link (containing full size images): https://imgur.com/a/ZKKD0Tv

I have a much longer post that i'm working on (will create its own thread), but my free time has been strained so i'll just post here a preview

Relevant scourses and quotes:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digi ... e-in-depth
Adding to the list of enhancements, Microsoft increased performance in CPU/GPU coherency and enhanced and improved the speed of the GPU command processor to offload a lot of work from the CPU too, specifically with DirectX 12 engines.


http://mrmgroup.cs.princeton.edu/papers ... HPCA13.pdf
In it, general-purpose (non-graphics) computational
kernels are offloaded from a host CPU to a nearby GPU in
order to improve the runtime, throughput, or performance-
per-watt of the computation as compared to the original CPU
implementation.

Will post the new thread later when i get the analysis finished. Anyways, what 2k is having to do is transfer more gpu power to help the struggling jaguar cpu (they were always considered weak). With the next gen consoles a year off (according to rumors), once again, in this dev cycle they are implementing more backend stuffs in preperation for more power (gpu/cpu) in the next cosole. both madden and nba 2k have done this --- according to my speculation, obviously.

The one sentance summary is: there will be slight gameplay changes as they tweak the backend, and no graphical increases until the next console is released. It is because of cpu bottleneck in the current consoles.

It is marketing suicide to make that graphical slash (2k18 to 2k19) without hoping to "right the course" within the next year. The current consoles' hardware have been pushed to their limits.
anyways, i got more articles and stuffs. But the new thread will be a ways off due to my schedule becoming rather full.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby sticky-fingers on Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:23 am

Great post Bongo (Y)

BUT 2K
- should explain this problem if you're right
- could work harder on the gameplay
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:21 am

bongo88 wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:I dont want to hear that the new systems cant handle it, it was handles 13 yeasrs ago by the last gen consoles. Also, i've heard people say that they took out things like that, and took out reflections etc to improve performace. So why did we have this on last gen? and why did 2K14 for this gen have all those goodies with the better graphics?

Doesnt make sense.


The current console systems absolutely cannot handled the framework, motion systems, and other backend computations (remember, these computations must be calculated very quickly on a weak jaguar cpu)
The slash of graphics from 2k18 to 2k19 is a result of a cpu bottleneck. They shaded the crowd even more (2k17 -> 2k18 -> 2k19) to reduce gpu usage on graphics so that they could harness that excess gpu power to help compute cpu processes.
see the images below:
image 1
[ Image ]

image2
[ Image ]

image3
[ Image ]

album link (containing full size images): https://imgur.com/a/ZKKD0Tv

I have a much longer post that i'm working on (will create its own thread), but my free time has been strained so i'll just post here a preview

Relevant scourses and quotes:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digi ... e-in-depth
Adding to the list of enhancements, Microsoft increased performance in CPU/GPU coherency and enhanced and improved the speed of the GPU command processor to offload a lot of work from the CPU too, specifically with DirectX 12 engines.


http://mrmgroup.cs.princeton.edu/papers ... HPCA13.pdf
In it, general-purpose (non-graphics) computational
kernels are offloaded from a host CPU to a nearby GPU in
order to improve the runtime, throughput, or performance-
per-watt of the computation as compared to the original CPU
implementation.

Will post the new thread later when i get the analysis finished. Anyways, what 2k is having to do is transfer more gpu power to help the struggling jaguar cpu (they were always considered weak). With the next gen consoles a year off (according to rumors), once again, in this dev cycle they are implementing more backend stuffs in preperation for more power (gpu/cpu) in the next cosole. both madden and nba 2k have done this --- according to my speculation, obviously.

The one sentance summary is: there will be slight gameplay changes as they tweak the backend, and no graphical increases until the next console is released. It is because of cpu bottleneck in the current consoles.

It is marketing suicide to make that graphical slash (2k18 to 2k19) without hoping to "right the course" within the next year. The current consoles' hardware have been pushed to their limits.
anyways, i got more articles and stuffs. But the new thread will be a ways off due to my schedule becoming rather full.


Bongo, you have absolutely no basis for this. No facts to back it up. Your screenshot examples of 'shaders" are of a 3rd person account (Picture within a picture) gameplay footage. thats a picture of a tv, not the actual lighting from the game from a first person video. We don't know at all if they slashed the graphics from 2K18 to 2K19, in fact the gameplay trailer suggests that the graphics might be almost exactly the same at 2K18.

Numerous other games on these consoles/PC have hair movement, etc. Horizon Zero Dawn has zero frame rate drops, and it has some of the best overall graphics/gameplay I have ever seen.

The new motion system was just implemented for 2K18. Lets say you are correct (Which you havnt proven in the least) about the hair/jersey movement, that doesn't explain the drop in lighting/reflections, or the clay body types, etc. You are telling me that all of these other games (Including sports games) can have crisp, clean graphics with gorgeous lighting, but this gen console's/PCs can't handle hair movement/jersey movement?

It's 2018, and some of the most impressive games (In most genres) are coming out, the detail graphics/gameplay wise are out of this world. Yes, not all are on the same graphics engine, but to imply that the power of the PS4 and XboxOne can't handle hair movement/jersey movement in 2018 at a stable framerate, or that it can't handle the graphics we had in 2013 with 2K14, is quite the stretch. You would need to provide quite a bit of backup for me to believe that the current system can't handle the processes of the gameplay coupled with the graphics.

I wasn't going to respond to this, but I didn't really want anybody on here getting the idea that 2K's downgrade in graphics/atmosphere has anything to do with system limitations. Even IF hair movement and more jersey movement couldnt be implemented (Which im sure it could), it wouldn't explain the body type situation (cutting body types way down, and the players not looking like athletes, very limited muscle definition), it wouldn't explain the lack of reflections all of a sudden, or the unrealistically dark crowds, the big heads surrounding the league, etc. Also, the gameplay has not only carried on with the legacy issues, but it has added more issues which include skating, blow bys, etc.

I heard all the excuses in the book for the on ball defense, I don't want to hear all the excuses in the book for the downgrade in graphics.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:11 am

Again, lets say "graphical limitations" limits rhe hair movement/jersey movement. It has nothing to do with.

A. Oversized heads flooding the league
B. Less body types
C. Players having hardly any definition and looking like clay
D. Unrealistically dark arenas
E. Jersey color/style inaccuracies flooding the current and classic teams
F. The ball being the wrong color for years
G. Reflections basically all but being removed

The graphical limitations (again, if true) have nothing to do with the legacy issues still being present in the game, the new gameplay issues presented, and the slew of roster issues that are in the game (sim stats being way off, signatures unrealistic, ratings copy and pasted).

So no, I don't think that the new systems are limited processing power wise to handle hair movement/jersey movement. But even if that's the case, it doesn't explain any of the other downgrades and shortcomings.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby sticky-fingers on Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:16 am

Bongo's theory is interesting. For example, with 2K16 - i guess - there was an issue with the crowd level and AA on low/mid end PCs at the release.

BTW as a modder, you saw the amount of files for mostly anything in this game ; sometimes there's even files from previous games inside.
The current gen of consoles can handle games with better graphics. But perhaps 2K graphic engine is not optimized.
Dont forget that PC version is just a console port.

Pershaps you can stand this speech, because 2K should work on optimization, BUT

Dee4Three wrote:I heard all the excuses in the book for the on ball defense, I don't want to hear all the excuses in the book for the downgrade in graphics.

It sounds so dictatorial :cheeky:
if you dont want to debate and let others people share they mind, but impose your opinion, maybe you should consider to do something else.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:19 am

sticky-fingers wrote:Bongo's theory is interesting. For example, with 2K16 - i guess - there was an issue with the crowd level and AA on low/mid end PCs at the release.

BTW as a modder, you saw the amount of files for mostly anything in this game ; sometimes there's even files from previous games inside.
The current gen of consoles can handle games with better graphics. But perhaps 2K graphic engine is not optimized.
Dont forget that PC version is just a console port.

Pershaps you can stand this speech, because 2K should work on optimization, BUT

Dee4Three wrote:I heard all the excuses in the book for the on ball defense, I don't want to hear all the excuses in the book for the downgrade in graphics.

It sounds so dictatorial :cheeky:
if you dont want to debate and let others people share they mind, but impose your opinion, maybe you should consider to do something else.


I heard the excuses about the defense even though I showed video evidence of it. Smoove said in the preview season for this game that 2K18's blow by mechanics ruined online and offline mode, and Mike Wang also stated how big of a problem it was. But with me, I was fought on it constantly, even though it was completely and totally obvious.

I don't mind sharing opinions, but I mind a blatant disregard for evidence.

If Bongo has proof of his claims, so be it. But that should have nothing to do with the other points I mentioned (outside of hair and jerseys)
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:27 am

Also, I'd like to not have this conversation here. Sounds like Bongo will be creating a thread, we can have it over there.

If not, let's do it by PM, that way it doesn't cloud up this thread. If we go the PM route, we can do one with all 3 of us in it, doesn't matter to me.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby StyxTx on Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:48 am

With 2k's history, I wouldn't be in the least bit shocked if the graphic downgrading was a ploy created by 2k & the next gen console makers to force 2k players to buy the new consoles to get the "full benefit" of NBA 2k graphics (for a monetary reward from console makers), even though those "full benefits" can actually be used on the current systems. That's how skeptical I've become of the NBA 2k "developers", a term I use very loosely.

Like Dee, I also have to say that with all the games out with super graphics, to think that 2k had to scale back on theirs is ridiculous. I do have a high end PC and graphic card and I never had any issues with graphics on any NBA 2k with all the setting maxed out.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby bongo88 on Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:31 pm

StyxTx wrote:With 2k's history, I wouldn't be in the least bit shocked if the graphic downgrading was a ploy created by 2k & the next gen console makers to force 2k players to buy the new consoles to get the "full benefit" of NBA 2k graphics (for a monetary reward from console makers), even though those "full benefits" can actually be used on the current systems. That's how skeptical I've become of the NBA 2k "developers", a term I use very loosely.

Like Dee, I also have to say that with all the games out with super graphics, to think that 2k had to scale back on theirs is ridiculous. I do have a high end PC and graphic card and I never had any issues with graphics on any NBA 2k with all the setting maxed out.



sigh, the replies in this thread are filled with ignorance concerning hardware limitations. Yes StyxTx, i have considered the conspiracy theorem about downgrading the graphics to "boost" the next gen graphics marketing.
The only problem with that is the ps4 is pushed to the limit with current 2k titles.
https://www.google.com/search?q=reddit+ ... fox-b-1-ab

Now, it matters not that these are subjective, what matters is that relative to other titles, 2k games max out the hardware on current consoles. the cpu/gpu running near maximum produces more heat, which makes the fan turn faster. thus, more of the hardware is being utilized.
there isn't much graphically to the 2k games (compared to horizon dawn or monster hunter world). But the first drastic stadium reduction came with 2k18, which required a new motion system. A more advanced motion system is related to every aspect of gameplay computations, and those computations have to be instant. that is why the cpu took a big hit (the number of computations and the speed of computations). Thus, they drastically reduced the stadium lighting to free up gpu resources for these new cpu cycles.

If they have added more cpu cycles to the backend (better defense reaction.... better rebounding... better speed with system interatcion, etc) then a cut in stadium lighting is required to free up more gpu resources to assist the cpu in these computations. the next gen is in a year or two, they will probably have a variant of the new ryzen cpus, and the ryzen cpus are very impressive.

Here's Da_Czar talking about it.... a quote and video if your interested in these backend stuffs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG0Rlez ... .be&t=1741

Quote from Da_Czar Video:
"The [inaudible] he thinks, ugh, they think, that the next big jump for AI will be the ability for it to recognize the other players strengths and weaknesses and not get in each others way while running. Uh, yeah, actually, those are like two different things. Our AI is smart enough to recognize the others person's ability, but the thing is that, right, now, we just put in that new Motion System, right. And it is in motion right now--It doesn't know how to handle these different situations of Avoidance, right, and Avoidance System is a completely different system than the Motion System, but it needs to work with it. And, ugh, that's not simple stuff to code. Right. So, conceptually you are right, that is the next level. Our AI can handle it. It's the rest of the systems in the game, can they handle it? Can they give us the movement we need once the AI recognizes that oh, yo, this guys at this, this is what he is gonna do, like, we can deduce that information. But, can we feed that to the motion system in time for it to make another decision to feed that into the Off-ball Collision System or the Avoidance System, and then once it comes out of that, it hands it back to the AI...."


in my opinion, 2k14 - 2k17 built the underlying AI Framework .... and it was paired with the systems (motion, collision, avoidance, etc ) of previous gen. (2k11 - 2k13). Now with those goals accomplished, they have to bring up the other systems to par. 2k14 was the best graphical year.... yet every year from 2k14 - 2k19 they have slashed graphics in one way or another to help support the weak jaguar cpus.

In regards to Dee4Three... i will post a thread. I have shared my conjectures. You claim my screenshots are not relevant. here is a link. watch the videos. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... 9+gameplay they are all the same. The stadiums are neutered even further. we will know for sure when the game is released. My thread will be a couple months off, but if they slash stadium even further, the resources went somewhere. Hardware resources dont simply evaporate.

A. Oversized heads flooding the league
B. Less body types
C. Players having hardly any definition and looking like clay
D. Unrealistically dark arenas
E. Jersey color/style inaccuracies flooding the current and classic teams
F. The ball being the wrong color for years
G. Reflections basically all but being removed


these things, you and I have discussed in the past. here is the link: viewtopic.php?f=231&t=105212

You have forgotten.

I will go through the list, because you keep spouting the same prejudices over and over without critcially thinking about these things.

A. Oversized heads flooding the league..... sigh, remember, new animation require new skeletons. whether the mesh adapts perfectly to the new skeleton depends on each game. (oblivion mesh/skeleton combo do not work with skyrim mesh/skeleton, yet they are the same engine, gamebryo. Are these a perfect automated adaption? or do they need to be tweaked by hand?
B. Less body types ---- they cut that in 2k17. why? perhaps to save resources ? perhaps not.
C. Players having hardly any definition and looking like clay --- again, is the mesh a simple auto port... or do they need to be hand adapted. Thinking on the matter, you rarely bring up the absolutely horrible face meshes of 2k14- 2k17 because it does not fit your narrative. Perhaps the modeling artists they had worked on making faces better. Now, i haven't gone through to check the vertice count for 2k14 vs 2k18 ( or even 2k17 vs 2k18) but, now that you mention it, i will definitely load them into blender and take a count and post it in my longer thread.
D. Unrealistically dark arenas --- the screenshots above discuss the arenas. And the thread I will make will discuss how dark shading an arena allows for less gpu load.
E. Jersey color/style inaccuracies flooding the current and classic teams ---
F. The ball being the wrong color for years --- the jersey's and ball peaceman mentioned once that they are still using assets from 2k14. interesting. Actually, now that i think about it, i'll have to dig into the rgb of nba live 18 vs 2k18 jerseys and ball color. both games are a bit off. I have my own conspiracy theory about those things relating to the NBA ... but that's just pure conspiracy :)
G. Reflections basically all but being removed --- perhaps to lessen gpu load.

Every single item point to lessening the gpu load to bolster the cpu. Even E and F... resources from 2k14 (perhaps peaceman not will talk about that) help reduce GPU load. Every point you have made fits my conjectures. They all point to lessening the gpu load.
None has been so drastic as the change from 2k18 to 2k19 in stadium lighting.
The problem with 2kbasketball stadium is that they load 3d models that all require shading and lighting, which loads the gpu. Madden does not have this problem because they are still using 2d sprites as their stadium people. It really surprised me as i have started to see if i'm interested in madden 19 (probably wont buy it due to the games limitations) but there is no way console gpu could render those madden stadiums with 3d models. thus madden cut back, from the looks of it, with either 2d sprites or a very low poly 3d model.

I have said it many times, and will say it again. We are in the middle of the dev cycle where they have moved from graphics and are implementing long term back end simulation frameworks. graphic lighting are easily tweaked. i can make a skyrim enb preset in an hour-- change the whole lighting. I can also change the 2k18 lighting with a few numbers in hex. The engine is capable of 2k14 lighting, but the cpu is struggling with the backend.

Concerning Horizon Dawn, it does not do the complex , instant, computations in the background about AI. Thus they have more hardware available for graphical fidelity. Comparing the ai of stagnant spawned monsters (usually a checkerboard effect for efficiency) cannot be compared to real-time computations of basketball simulation. the monsters AI pathways and interactions are quite simple. not much cpu required to make the monsters interact with the world/player.

A more comparable release is the new Monster hunter world. Capcom unlocked the complete bioshpere of monster hunter world on PC with full monster interactions on the whole world. They did this because they have the CPU overhead to run those simulations .... and people with weak CPUs are complaining. welcome to next gen.
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/0 ... mance-cpu/
The monster interactions with each other, npc, and players are cpu computations. texture work and meshes, can be unloaded to a GPU when there is a dedicated GPU, like in a pc. A console has different ecosystem with definite limitations. It's been a while since i read up on monster hunter world on consoles, but they have 3 settings, performance, graphical, and another one i cant remember. I thought it interesting they provided different settings depending on what the console player prefers.
Anyways, I have little free time and will share my conjectures in another thread. Like i said, in a month or two i'll post my thread.

I stand by my main thesis:
bongo88 wrote:The one sentance summary is: there will be slight gameplay changes as they tweak the backend, and no graphical increases until the next console is released. It is because of cpu bottleneck in the current consoles.
It is marketing suicide to make that graphical slash (2k18 to 2k19) without hoping to "right the course" within the next year.


sticky-fingers wrote:Great post Bongo (Y)

BUT 2K
- should explain this problem if you're right
- could work harder on the gameplay


the problem, sticky, is that the complete package won't be available for 3 or 4 or 5 years. they implemented the motion system, how long will it take to overhaul the rebound system or the collision system? you should browse Da_Czar videos.... its quite interesting.

Anyways, it will be a while. it is just something to think about.
Have a good day.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:45 pm

Absolutely nothing you said makes me change my stance on anything. It literally changes nothing.

In fact, it makes me 100% stand by my original stance about these current gen systems being able to handle the mentioned issues, especially the ones I listed that were lettered.

Absolutley not worth talking about anymore.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby sticky-fingers on Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:16 pm

Basicly, the good point of this thread is that finally you learn how to answer without quote :cheeky:

bongo88 wrote:I can also change the 2k18 lighting with a few numbers in hex. The engine is capable of 2k14 lighting, but the cpu is struggling with the backend.

How ?! :P Could you explain that in a dedicated thread ?
BTW v-sync impacts drasticly performances ; it's night and day with a gsync monitor :P
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby TGsoGood on Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:16 pm

bongo88 I look forward to your thread in a few months.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby StyxTx on Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:50 pm

bongo88 wrote:
sigh, the replies in this thread are filled with ignorance concerning hardware limitations. Yes StyxTx, i have considered the conspiracy theorem about downgrading the graphics to "boost" the next gen graphics marketing.
The only problem with that is the ps4 is pushed to the limit with current 2k titles.
https://www.google.com/search?q=reddit+ ... fox-b-1-ab



Well, since you have no idea what the extent of my knowledge is, I'll just let you think what you want. However, when I say my PC has had no issues with ANY game's graphics, I mean it. Every game I have has the graphic settings on ultra-high, or whatever the highest level is, and I have no problems.

Before they cut back on the graphics with NBA 2k, I had NO problems. This is fact whether you want to believe it or not.

But if what you say is true, maybe 2k should stop trying to improve graphics ( there isn't much wrong with it) and work on the game play which pretty much sucks. That would be a novel approach.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby PeacemanNOT on Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:35 pm

Did you just say that you could change the lighting? Jesus if you actually can please do, that would be amazing.

In regards to your post, all the stuff you’re saying is plausible. Doesn’t mean it’s true but I’d still like to hear more, looking forward to your thread. (Y)
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Vlad2010 on Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:48 am

bongo88 wrote: I can also change the 2k18 lighting with a few numbers in hex. The engine is capable of 2k14 lighting, but the cpu is struggling with the backend.

So, is that possible on nba 2k15?
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:47 am

You guys clamouring for this... really?

First off, the "2K17 to 2K18" crowd lighting that was discovered this year didn't look like 2K17 at all, I noticed hardly any difference.

Second, if that's the case, and the CPU could easily handle the change, it's once again proving that the rest of his rant is nothing but a rant. The whole premise is that he is saying the GPU can't handle all the processes at once, which is why they reduced the graphics so much. So whether the lighting could be enhanced via hex editing or not, that has nothing to do with the consoles/systems not being able to handle more realistic lighting (I can't believe I have to say this stuff)

You guys do realize that some of the stuff he is saying doesn't make any sense for these consoles, correct? He made an excuse for almost every letter I posed (that didn't have to do with the hair movement or jersey movement).

I played 2K14 for PS4 last night, the graphics are mind blowing. The jerseys move, the CROWD is animating constantly (unlike in the newer 2K's where they are basically not moving or barely moving all game), the reflections and lighting are out of this world realistic and beautiful, a couple of the body types look freaking awesome, the presentation is great, and the defense/movement around the floor feels a lot better.

Again, THE CROWD, which can be a huge hit to FPS in these games, is constantly moving in 2K14, and with all of the other graphical enhancements it's still running perfect, this is in 2013. The fact that I am having to read those posts, and actually debate this in 2018 when it's OBVIOUS that the graphics have downgraded and it's not because of system limitations, actually makes me quite frustrated.

The lighting got far better on 2K17 thsn on 2K15, so again your argument doesn't support that at all. These consoles were able to produce 2K14 like it was, and 2k18 and possibly 2K19 can't even get close? Please.

Madden 19 (which I bought two nights ago) just introduced RPM, a completely new motion system. The presentation in Madden is unreal, the lighting during broadcast and close up is top notch, literally looks like a real game. Yes, frostbite, but it's on THE SAME PLATFORMS. Just like with Live making lighting a priority (and the players looking more like athletes), Live is on the same consoles. Live will be releasing soon with a completely new motion system (RPM), and you can bet the lighting will be far better (as we have already seen some of it in the gameplay footage). Live 19 is not using Frostbite, either. Guys... people... friends.... it isn't a system limitation that is causing these graphic downgrades..

And when you defended the oversized heads, it made me start thinking you were trolling. That's an effort issue, or they didn't make it a priority, just like overall the body types, lighting, reflections, etc have not been a big priority.

It doesn't have to do with system limitations, it has to do with company priority. This is ridiculous.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby sticky-fingers on Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:03 am

It's you who's trolling on this forum, repeating over and over again your poor arguments on mostly every thread of 2K18, and now 2K19.

2K has too be bash for many things, but on other side, i find you're very tolerant with EA, that is not a non-profit organization.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:07 am

sticky-fingers wrote:It's you who's trolling on this forum, repeating over and over again your poor arguments on mostly every thread of 2K18, and now 2K19.

2K has too be bash for many things, but on other side, i find you're very tolerant with EA, that is not a non-profit organization.


I'm not trolling at all. I'm being realistic and combating excuses that are made for downgrades in several areas.

Tolerant with EA? I went back and forth with Kingpnp and others for AWHILE in regards to the animation issues (stiff shoulders, robotic movements, etc), I uploaded videos of the issues as well, and the dev team looked at it (ThaLiveKing will absolutley remember that). I've talked about the limited franchise mode, about the animation issues, about the lack of customization, etc.

Me being critical of 2K is valid, and my not wanting excuses that make no sense made for them is also valid and the exact opposite of trolling.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby TGsoGood on Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:14 am

Anybody think we will see JR Smith's new leg tattoo make it in the game?

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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Roberto on Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:11 pm

TGsoGood wrote:Anybody think we will see JR Smith's new leg tattoo make it in the game?

[ Image ]

Man, I think many players will not have tattoo updates. In the trailer, Wall, Collins, Dejounte and others for example. Modders will have a lot of work...
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby eirik on Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:00 pm

TGsoGood wrote:Anybody think we will see JR Smith's new leg tattoo make it in the game?

[ Image ]


I doubt it, brand tattoos often don't make it into video games e.g. CM Punk in the UFC and WWE games
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby I Hate Mondays on Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:16 pm

TGsoGood wrote:Anybody think we will see JR Smith's new leg tattoo make it in the game?

[ Image ]


Hah, no way. It took them like 3 years to add Lillard's chest tattoo and he is the face of a franchise.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby ConfigSys on Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:11 am

PeacemanNOT wrote:Did you just say that you could change the lighting? Jesus if you actually can please do, that would be amazing.

In regards to your post, all the stuff you’re saying is plausible. Doesn’t mean it’s true but I’d still like to hear more, looking forward to your thread. (Y)


bongo88 If it's relay true please do that it's could be game changing (Y)

and i will test my 8700k@5Ghz + 1080Ti OC.....
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby V01D on Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:50 pm

Will be waiting for that 2k14 lighting
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Sith on Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:08 pm

Please, stop talkng about current gen consoles weakness, cmon bro. It's so frustrating. While NBA 2k14-18 runs 1080p in 60 fps on basic PS4 and truly 2160p in 60fps on ps4 pro, you are talking how bad these consoles are. The whole problem is in 2K and it's marketing plan. As for lighting. Arenas lighting in real since 2017-2018 realy became more dark. Not all and not as much as 2K do. While other studios make good games with beautiful graphics for ps4, VС make the same crap every year. So who is weak in this situation? Consoles? I don't think so. :)
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Midas Touch on Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:26 am

V01D wrote:Will be waiting for that 2k14 lighting


Honestly :lol:
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby sticky-fingers on Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:07 am

Midas Touch wrote:
V01D wrote:Will be waiting for that 2k14 lighting


Honestly :lol:

Have you Seen bongo's works on scoreboards ?!
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Roberto on Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:03 am

So many days without new screenshots...
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby DEIRRA on Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:38 am

Estoy de acuerdo, realmente echo de menos la iluminación 2K14.
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby sticky-fingers on Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:58 am

Roberto wrote:So many days without new screenshots...


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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Roberto on Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:12 am

sticky-fingers wrote:
Roberto wrote:So many days without new screenshots...


[ Image ]

https://media.giphy.com/media/DYH297XiCS2Ck/giphy.gif
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Re: NBA 2K19 Official Screenshots

Postby Roberto on Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:13 am

sticky-fingers wrote:
Roberto wrote:So many days without new screenshots...


[ Image ]

Wow, Griffin looks great!!!!
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