Converting Cyber faces 2K17 and 2K18 *NEW Discovery*

[Vizzy2K]

A lot of those would be handy for what I'm trying to do, so if anyone has the time, please

[TGsoGood]

Quick update about converting 2K18 hair to 2K17... all my attempts were unsuccessful. I did spend a few hours trying different things but no success at all.

Adding this lst to page 3 for visibility

Here's a short list of retro players missing in 2k18 but present in 2k17....I have 2k17 If someone need files I can send to you....It would really help retro rosters maker

0389 Rasheed Wallace
0443 Brian Skinner
0550 Elton Brand
0633 Joel Przybilla
0634 Keyon Dooling
0810 DeSagana Diop
0813 Vladimir Radmanovic
0908 Chris Wilcox
0933 Dan Gadzuric
1014 Darko Milicic
1091 Carlos Arroyo
1290 Ronny Turiaf
1353 Renaldo Balkman
1588 Nenad Krstic
2870 Rolando Blackman
4576 Walter McCarty
4657 Dale Davis
4661 Derrick Mckey
5052 Michael Curry
8528 Gilbert Arenas
4655 Reggie Miler

[trevorjpt33]

I've been having those instances with mine anyway, there's probably 6 or 7 different forms the player takes.

How can we break into the .mathnodes file?

I have no idea. Not sure if it requires hex editing or if it has to be decoded in some form.

[trevorjpt33]

Quick update about converting 2K18 hair to 2K17... all my attempts were unsuccessful. I did spend a few hours trying different things but no success at all.

What makes it tricky is that we are essentially trying to make the game think that 2 or even 3 files are 1 file, due to 2K17's formatting. Maybe instead of converting 2K18 hair we could try and find a way to copy hair from other players in 2K17, since they don't have a separate binary?

[Dee4Three]

Quick update about converting 2K18 hair to 2K17... all my attempts were unsuccessful. I did spend a few hours trying different things but no success at all.

What makes it tricky is that we are essentially trying to make the game think that 2 or even 3 files are 1 file, due to 2K17's formatting. Maybe instead of converting 2K18 hair we could try and find a way to copy hair from other players in 2K17, since they don't have a separate binary?

I just don't think we should give up yet. We literally have full conversions completed, my Jordan and Pierce look amazing. The only problem is the different forms the player takes, we have literally overcome all the other obstacles.

Something I discovered: if you use the 2K17 mathnodes, the player will still be the 2K18 conversion, and he will only have one form. However, the one form he takes has his eyeballs missing. Other than some slight jersey tearing that's the only issue.

I think we can use the 2K17 mathnodes for these conversions, we just have to figure out how to make the eyeballs show up for the player. Again, that's one obstacle to overcome. I messed with it for like 7 hours yesterday..... I messed with the text in the hihead.scne, I tried lowering the model in blender to match the location of the 2K17 model, etc. I even tried using a slightly shorter players mathnodes from 2K17 to see if it would work.

I think the reason his eyeballs are missing with the 2K17 mathnodes is because the player in 2K18s posture is different. The head is tilted a different way, which causes the eyeballs to not show up. Me moving the player down in blender was unsuccessful.

Again, would be crazy to give up now considering we only have one obstacle to overcome in both scenerios. Either the one where the player takes many forms but otherwise the conversion is perfect, or the eyeballs are missing using 2K17 mathnodes.

[trevorjpt33]

Oh yeah I’m definitely not giving up or anything I was just pointing out the main challenge left for us, and that I’m running out of ideas. I’m not well-versed in coding language so I was wondering if it’s possible to have more than one binary in these files.

But my brother is a software engineer and he’s going to come by Tuesday to give it a look if we don’t figure it out by then.

That’s interesting about the 2K17 mathnodes. I encountered something like that last night but I didn’t know he only had one form.

[trevorjpt33]

Something I discovered: if you use the 2K17 mathnodes, the player will still be the 2K18 conversion, and he will only have one form. However, the one form he takes has his eyeballs missing. Other than some slight jersey tearing that's the only issue.

I think we can use the 2K17 mathnodes for these conversions, we just have to figure out how to make the eyeballs show up for the player. Again, that's one obstacle to overcome. I messed with it for like 7 hours yesterday..... I messed with the text in the hihead.scne, I tried lowering the model in blender to match the location of the 2K17 model, etc. I even tried using a slightly shorter players mathnodes from 2K17 to see if it would work.

I think the reason his eyeballs are missing with the 2K17 mathnodes is because the player in 2K18s posture is different. The head is tilted a different way, which causes the eyeballs to not show up. Me moving the player down in blender was unsuccessful.

Have you encountered the black arms glitch with this method?

[Dee4Three]

Something I discovered: if you use the 2K17 mathnodes, the player will still be the 2K18 conversion, and he will only have one form. However, the one form he takes has his eyeballs missing. Other than some slight jersey tearing that's the only issue.

I think we can use the 2K17 mathnodes for these conversions, we just have to figure out how to make the eyeballs show up for the player. Again, that's one obstacle to overcome. I messed with it for like 7 hours yesterday..... I messed with the text in the hihead.scne, I tried lowering the model in blender to match the location of the 2K17 model, etc. I even tried using a slightly shorter players mathnodes from 2K17 to see if it would work.

I think the reason his eyeballs are missing with the 2K17 mathnodes is because the player in 2K18s posture is different. The head is tilted a different way, which causes the eyeballs to not show up. Me moving the player down in blender was unsuccessful.

Have you encountered the black arms glitch with this method?

When using 2K17 mathnodes, no black arm issues. Literally just one form, the way it should be. Hes just missing eyeballs.

But dude... check out this Westbrook I converted... this is Basagres 2K18 Westbrook (Credits to him on the original). I was able to match his skin tone perfectly... Hard for me to give up on this when these faces look SO GOOD. This would easily be the best Westbrook in 2K17

[Andrew]

Great work so far, love the ingenuity and intuition in working through the process. Hope you can find the final piece of the puzzle. Made sure to give it a shoutout on the latest Podcast.

[Dee4Three]

Here he is with me converting him to a 2K17 body type, and editing the body (adding more muscle)

[trevorjpt33]

Here he is with me converting him to a 2K17 body type, and editing the body (adding more muscle)

That Russell Westbrook is looking really good. Muscle definition and contour of face is fantastic.

[Dee4Three]

Here he is with me converting him to a 2K17 body type, and editing the body (adding more muscle)

That Russell Westbrook is looking really good. Muscle definition and contour of face is fantastic.

Thanks.

I didn't have to change the head shape, here are the modifications I did:

1. Changed his skin tone to match his arms (The correct skin tone for Russell Westbrook)
2. Edit the Wrinkles (in progress)
3. Shrinkwrap a 2K17 body onto him, and sculpt his body a bit to fit his jersey (So his traps don't leak through).
4. Add realistic muscle to him.


Look how clean these come out when the skin tone matches and is accurate... blows my mind. He has the 3D hair in Basagres original, but for the Westbrook I want it would be for the 11-12 Thunder:



Here he is in 11-12: The skin tone on my conversion is very similar, hair is spot on:




Here is the original that Basagre made. His skin tone kinda came out like that when I first converted it, in fact it was a tad darker. 2K18 is unrealistically dark, which adds to that Westbrooks dark appearance, Westbrook also does look a little darker than I have him in some pictures. But his Westbrook is fantastic for that game (Ive been using his work for years, loved his 2K14 Kobe). But for my purpose and for 2K17, the skin tone I chose looks really, really good.

[Dee4Three]

Great work so far, love the ingenuity and intuition in working through the process. Hope you can find the final piece of the puzzle. Made sure to give it a shoutout on the latest Podcast.

Nice, and hoping we can figure it out as well.

I'm going to mess with it more tomorrow. In the meantime..

Trevor, I agree that trying to use hair from another player in 2K17 might work. I've actually never tried this process in Blender. TGsoGood, have you tried that yet?.

For example, converting a face over from 2K18 to 2K17, and taking hair from another player in 2K17 and putting it on the now converted player? I don't see why this wouldn't work, considering the player opens up in Blender like he's a 2K17 player, and he can be edited like a 2K17 player (exactly the same on my end, I can edit the same way as normal)

[trevorjpt33]

Great work so far, love the ingenuity and intuition in working through the process. Hope you can find the final piece of the puzzle. Made sure to give it a shoutout on the latest Podcast.

Nice, and hoping we can figure it out as well.

I'm going to mess with it more tomorrow. In the meantime..

Trevor, I agree that trying to use hair from another player in 2K17 might work. I've actually never tried this process in Blender. TGsoGood, have you tried that yet?.

For example, converting a face over from 2K18 to 2K17, and taking hair from another player in 2K17 and putting it on the now converted player? I don't see why this wouldn't work, considering the player opens up in Blender like he's a 2K17 player, and he can be edited like a 2K17 player (exactly the same on my end, I can edit the same way as normal)

Could you detail what you did to get the player to a single state without black arm glitch? I got it once on accident a couple nights ago but I'm having trouble reproducing it.

Aside from 2K17 .mathnodes, did you work from a 2K17 png.iff archive or a 2K18 one? Did you make any slight changes to the hihead.SCNE file aside from changing the .mathnodes binary (renaming, removing 2K18 specific lines)?

Did you do the same stuff we've been doing to the face.iff archive?

[Dee4Three]

Great work so far, love the ingenuity and intuition in working through the process. Hope you can find the final piece of the puzzle. Made sure to give it a shoutout on the latest Podcast.

Nice, and hoping we can figure it out as well.

I'm going to mess with it more tomorrow. In the meantime..

Trevor, I agree that trying to use hair from another player in 2K17 might work. I've actually never tried this process in Blender. TGsoGood, have you tried that yet?.

For example, converting a face over from 2K18 to 2K17, and taking hair from another player in 2K17 and putting it on the now converted player? I don't see why this wouldn't work, considering the player opens up in Blender like he's a 2K17 player, and he can be edited like a 2K17 player (exactly the same on my end, I can edit the same way as normal)

Could you detail what you did to get the player to a single state without black arm glitch? I got it once on accident a couple nights ago but I'm having trouble reproducing it.

Aside from 2K17 .mathnodes, did you work from a 2K17 png.iff archive or a 2K18 one? Did you make any slight changes to the hihead.SCNE file aside from changing the .mathnodes binary (renaming, removing 2K18 specific lines)?

Did you do the same stuff we've been doing to the face.iff archive?

Get the 2K18 PNG file down to only the 4 files necessary for the face to work, follow the procedure to a T up to this point. The only 4 files that should be in the PNG archive are:

1. Hihead.SCNE
2. Mathnodes File
3. Appearance File
4. Model File

Once you have it down to those 4, swap in the 2K17 mathnodes file from the 2K17 player. For example, if I were to do this for Jordan, I would use the 2K17 Jordan mathnodes for the 2K18 Jordan PNG. After swapping in the 2K17 file, rename it to the mathnodes file that was in the folder prior, that way it matches the language in the hihead.scne.

When you get into the game and go to edit player, you will notice immediately that the players eyeballs are gone (they are just red), but that the rest of the face is the 2K18 face. The jersey will have a couple skin holes on it from the model going through the jersey, but that would be easily fixable. Go into "Body", and change his shoulder width, or height, or whatever. You will notice that he has that one form and that one form alone, no black arms, nothing.

This is why I think we can use the 2K17 mathnodes, we just have to figure out the eyes.

[trevorjpt33]

Get the 2K18 PNG file down to only the 4 files necessary for the face to work, follow the procedure to a T up to this point. The only 4 files that should be in the PNG archive are:

1. Hihead.SCNE
2. Mathnodes File
3. Appearance File
4. Model File

Once you have it down to those 4, swap in the 2K17 mathnodes file from the 2K17 player. For example, if I were to do this for Jordan, I would use the 2K17 Jordan mathnodes for the 2K18 Jordan PNG. After swapping in the 2K17 file, rename it to the mathnodes file that was in the folder prior, that way it matches the language in the hihead.scne.

When you get into the game and go to edit player, you will notice immediately that the players eyeballs are gone (they are just red), but that the rest of the face is the 2K18 face. The jersey will have a couple skin holes on it from the model going through the jersey, but that would be easily fixable. Go into "Body", and change his shoulder width, or height, or whatever. You will notice that he has that one form and that one form alone, no black arms, nothing.

This is why I think we can use the 2K17 mathnodes, we just have to figure out the eyes.

Ok sweet thanks, now I am seeing what you are describing.

*Edit: Yeah this is definitely our best bet, this is the only time I've gotten the player without the black arm glitch or the accompanying change in facial expressions when I switch around accessories.

[trevorjpt33]

Dude I kid you not I found his eyeballs.... in his mouth lol. I went over to Signature just to see if the eyes showed up there, and when I scrolled down to the dunk emotion: intense this is what I got.

This is easily the most disturbing thing I have ever encountered in 2K haha.

[Dee4Three]

Dude I kid you not I found his eyeballs.... in his mouth lol. I went over to Signature just to see if the eyes showed up there, and when I scrolled down to the dunk emotion: intense this is what I got.

This is easily the most disturbing thing I have ever encountered in 2K haha.
[ Image ]

That's messed up... it's the same feeling I got when I encountered the glitch where Kemp's eyes were rolling around in his head... creeper me out.

So this is great news, doesn't this mean that we can get it to work by moving his eyes into the right place in Blender?

[trevorjpt33]

I think his eyes might be just out of sight, but barely clipping. At least the right one is. So much so that it's nearly imperceptible. I had to squint at it for like 30 seconds to make sure I wasn't seeing things. More evident if you go to signature and look at something like "chew gum" option cause it's really close up.

[trevorjpt33]

Aha! I got lucky and the first idea that popped into my head is to try copying in his eye deformation info from 2K17 file, as you said because of posture. There is a slight difference in the values between files but just enough to hide them right behind his eye cap things.

AND they are moving like they are supposed to in the edit player screen from what I see.

So go over to his 2K17 hihead.SCNE file that you are not using, and grab only the sections that read: "def_L_eyeBall_JNT" and "def_R_eyeBall_JNT" and it should work. I have not made any adjustments in blender so if you did and its in your modded folder you can move it out.

[Dee4Three]

Aha! I got lucky and the first idea that popped into my head is to try copying in his eye deformation info from 2K17 file, as you said because of posture. There is a slight difference in the values between files but just enough to hide them right behind his eye cap things.

AND they are moving like they are supposed to in the edit player screen from what I see.

So go over to his hihead.SCNE file that you are not using, and grab only the lines that read: "def_L_eyeBall_JNT" and "def_R_eyeBall_JNT" and it should work. I have not made any adjustments in blender so if you did and its in your modded folder you can move it out.
[ Image ]

Yessss! You are a legend. Thank you!

When I get home from work I'll completely convert the 4 faces I did, and I'll post screenshots.

Maybe TGsoGood can try the 3D hair route with one of my completed players.

[trevorjpt33]

Sounds good. Aside from the jersey adjusting that you referred to, I noticed his teeth/mouth are clipping and will need to be adjusted (you can see in the first picture I posted), probably through the hihead.SCNE file. They may also be fixed if I copy their deformation info over too.

I have a couple things to try for converting 2K18 3D hair as well, courtesy of my brother who knows way more about metadata/coding than I do. So I will edit this post if there is news on either front.

[Dee4Three]

Sounds good. Aside from the jersey adjusting that you referred to, I noticed his teeth/mouth are clipping and will need to be adjusted (you can see in the first picture I posted), probably through the hihead.SCNE file. They may also be fixed if I copy their deformation info over too.

I have a couple things to try for converting 2K18 3D hair as well, courtesy of my brother who knows way more about metadata/coding than I do. So I will edit this post if there is news on either front.

My shrinkwrapping might get rid of some of that jersey tearing, I'm excited to try that out.

In regards to the mouth/teeth, if you don't get to it first, I may try and mess with the language in the hihead.SCNE file to see if it works. I'm working for the next 4 to 4.5 hours though. About the 3D hair, even if we can just use the 2K17 method to add hair that would be appropriate. For example, if we converted a Ben Wallace from 2K18 over, being able to just add the 2K17's Ben Wallace afro, and making slight adjustments to it if needed.

[trevorjpt33]

Sounds good. Aside from the jersey adjusting that you referred to, I noticed his teeth/mouth are clipping and will need to be adjusted (you can see in the first picture I posted), probably through the hihead.SCNE file. They may also be fixed if I copy their deformation info over too.

I have a couple things to try for converting 2K18 3D hair as well, courtesy of my brother who knows way more about metadata/coding than I do. So I will edit this post if there is news on either front.

**Update: I was able to fix the mouth/teeth problem by changing values in the hihead.SCNE file. This allowed me to make the modifications without causing the mouth bag to show when you are looking at the player from the side, which is what happened when I used blender for the bigger edits. The only value you are after in the deform section is is "def_C_jaw_JNT_NUL". It is near the top of the section. Just for reference, my changes of the coordinates were from...
[ 0.0, -0.492632806, 5.64412498 ] to [ 0.0, 0.232632806, 7.94412498 ]

Editing can be done in blender, but moreso tweaking after you have altered the hihead.SCNE file. I went into edit mode and selected only the mouthBagShape vertex group to make changes to. Make sure proportional editing is NOT on. Keep it very minimal or it will show - do the big changes in the hihead.SCNE file. By minimal I mean that I would recommend only moving a little up and down the Z axis or maybe a little bit of rotating along the X axis to get the right amount of bottom/top teeth to show. If you even barely nudge it on the Y axis the mouth bag will be visible

I am still working on the 2K18 hair. I'm not sure if you would call it progress, but I have gotten the second .model for hair into my png archive without it being rejected by 2K and making the player disappear, but it's not being read by the game as 3D hair.**

[trevorjpt33]

The jersey clipping seems to be concentrated all in the chest-torso area - not really much shoulders, traps, or back. This is nice because we won't have to make the players paper thin to fit the jerseys.