Looking for PC editors for big 2K18 project

A hub for everything related to NBA 2K18 modding. Releases, previews, requests, and other modding discussion belongs here.

Looking for PC editors for big 2K18 project

Postby SonicMage on Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:19 pm

Hi NLSC NBA 2K18 community! For those unfamiliar with me or my work, I've spent the past several years developing a system for auto-generating ratings for the NBA 2K series using sophisticated real-world analytics techniques. This system works not just for modern day players, but for any player in NBA history. And all without fan bias or superstar overrating. How a player performs on the court, that's how they'll perform in the game, and the difference over what is delivered out of the box is phenomenal. For more info about that work, you can check out my thread over at O/S at https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/nba-2k-basketball-rosters/861476-sonicmages-sportscrunch-ratings.html

However, in this generation of 2K games, due to a mediocre interface and an ever-increasing wealth of tweakable parameters for players, coaches, and teams alike, it's just no longer reasonable to expect one or two roster creators to be able to crank out a complete set without months of long nights flipping numbers with a keyboard or controller. By the time the roster releases, it's either incomplete or the community is no longer interested. So, I bring you Sportscrunch, which is the new group founded with a devotion to a multi-platform true NBA simulation experience. No longer will the PC version of the game be deprived of options for rosters with great gameplay and up-to-date player authenticity. Our mission is that there is strength in numbers, and there exists a very strong community with a wealth of information about both the NBA and the game itself. If we tap into our collective, we can all help create something enjoyable quickly and efficiently. We at Sportscrunch are eight members strong, but we can always use more help. That's where you come in. Send me a message and I'll tell you more about our opportunities and where you can possibly fit in. Thanks for your time.
This topic was moved from NBA 2K18 by Andrew on Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:33 pm.
SonicMage
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: Looking for PC editors for big 2K18 project

Postby bluejaybrandon on Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:52 pm

I’m currently in the midst of creating a fully comprehensive PC roster. I tried using your spreadsheets and I have to say, I find them a bit lackluster. There are several missing attributes and often an attribute will be way off. I’m assuming this is because of sample size. For example, Marco Belineli is had a mid range rating of 99. Maybe statistically that’s true because of a low number of attempts there, but I do not consider Marco among the best mid range shooters when guys like DeRozen don’t share that same 99 rating. Do you have somebody who looks at the whole roster or is it just whatever the calculations spit out?

Edit: I agree with Dee below. This does come off very disingenuous to those who have put countless hours of work in. Maybe you’re naive to the PC scene but there have been countless great rosters.
Last edited by bluejaybrandon on Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
bluejaybrandon
 
Posts: 1063
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:18 am

Re: Looking for PC editors for big 2K18 project

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:39 am

I disagree with several of your points, SonicMage. And I say that with all due respect.

I created two huge rosters for NBA 2K17 (All Time Teams and Ultimate Fantasy Draft Roster that added close to 200 players to the game with no CAPS) they were released in January or February of 2017, which was a prime time to have them released. Between those two rosters and my other one (Classic Teams Roster), I received over 10k downloads off of Steam. I didn't release a roster file, so people who pirate the game didn't get access. I did no advertising of these rosters other than my threads on NLSC, and a random video here or there on YouTube.

In those rosters, myself and my brother did ALL of the vitals/attributes/tendencies/signatures etc for every player. That is two people, for the draft roster I did 100%. I did all of that with manual edits of each player, while working a full time job and having a life outside of modding (playing in basketball leagues myself, girlfriend, working out etc) Not only did the players play right on the floor, the simulated stats were scary accurate when simulating through a MyLeague.

I get that you want to create an auto ratings generator, and maybe I am a little old school, but my methods on my rosters worked really really well, as I was able to be hands on with every single player. It is a little frustrating to see the comment about releases being so late they are pointless (that's the way it comes off) because that is not the case. People have been playing Shuajotas FIBA mod for over a month, and the game didn't even have FIBA teams in the regular version.

As Bluejaybrandon mentioned, if the generator creates a rating like that for Marco, it still means that a human who knows better needs to go in and fix those inaccuracies, which is why in my opinion hands on is flat out the way to go.

Also, advanced stats in general have many flaws when you dive deeper into them. I wouldn't be interested in using a ratings generator if they are based on advanced stats. For raw stats on a per minute basis, I see where it can be a little more helpful.

I'm also not saying that this tool won't be useful or helpful to some, I want to put that out there as well.

Again, not trying to be a jerk and I say everything above with all due respect, but please don't twist what we have been able to do the last couple years with roster releases. We have still had success, and there is no substitute for a hands on approach and a true basketball mind.

NOTE: this is important.. As much as you try and create accurate ratings/tendencies for players, keep in mind that a good majority of them mean squat in 2K18 (see my defense thread). Between the horrid pick n roll defense and one on one defense, as well as help defense, most of the ratings are truly thrown out the window. Body blocks and body steals that create very unrealistic stats for players that are not good at them, passes thrown that go straight to the CPU (basically a game planned turnover), etc. So while fancy on the surface, the on court experience doesn't reflect the players accurately in the least.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6735
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Looking for PC editors for big 2K18 project

Postby TGsoGood on Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:21 am

I am interested
Consider donating: http://cash.me/$TheJohnsonFamily or http://paypal.me/4TheGoods
Follow me on twitter @TGsoGood
Check me out on youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPydhZ ... PeRSmEVynQ
User avatar
TGsoGood
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 3701
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:03 am
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: Looking for PC editors for big 2K18 project

Postby bongo88 on Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:01 am

welcome to the nlsc forum, sonicmage. Hopefully there are PC Modders that contact you and are interested in your project. Thanks for stopping by and making a thread.
bongo88
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:30 am

Re: Looking for PC editors for big 2K18 project

Postby JEDL on Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:53 pm

I remember back in 2K14 where lots of people were complaining or criticizing the ratings for the URB Roster saying this guy can't have this overall rating or this guy can't be better at shooting than this guy or asking who made this rating system. I was one of those guys. Heck at one point I even emailed skoadam back at the 2013-14 season saying Dalembert's bullshit 76 overall should not be higher than Dirk's 74 or why every big man in the roster was overrated in general.

Despite that however the game was spot-on simulation-wise and reflected really well how they played on those seasons. Because of that I had a great time doing Association modes over and over trying different seasons and focusing on different teams each time. This roster made me love rosters which emphasized and made the effort to modify the ratings and tendencies which made players behave more like their real-life counterparts. It was more fun compared to the Medevenx Roster (no offense Meds) which had the conventional rating system although tendencies were barely touched which is major gripe for me for any roster and had more emphasis on its better cyberfaces, accurate shoes, and better signatures.

EDIT:
And SonicMage I appreciate you for giving the a PC version a go since everyone is on consoles despite all of us knowing that the PC is superior :lol: . I also took a look at the 99 Mid range for Belinielli and compared it to DeRozan and noticed that there's nothing wrong there at all. Belinelli has 99 Open Mid-Range, 74 Contested Mid-Range and 92 Off Dribble Mid-Range so naturally Beli here should be able to knock down open shots as he's a spot up shooter and you can see his shot effectiveness is much lower when contested at 74 so lets average all those three Mid-Range ratings and we get 88.33 which is pretty good and reflects how he we can shoot from that range and you guys can even look at Basketball-Reference where he has shot the same-ish percentage for several seasons now. Now lets look at DeRozan, he has 87 Open Mid-Range, 98 Contested Mid-Range and 93 Off Dribble Mid-Range with an average of 92.67. I mean we all know DeMar is effective regardless whether he is contested or not but with the 98(!) Contested Mid-Range rating this does not put Belinelli and DeRozan in the same level at all.
Last edited by JEDL on Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Image
User avatar
JEDL
Dirkler Parsitzki
 
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Re: Looking for PC editors for big 2K18 project

Postby hova- on Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:59 pm

It is very important to know the game and how sliders work etc. I am editting tendencies and stuff for 3-4 years now and I really have found some ways to make the game more enjoyable (for me) by editting tendencies - sometimes they sound akward, but you have to take into account how the tendencies translate on the court etc.

Badges are another example: there are some players who excel at setting screens but are not "brick walls", still it makes sense to give them that badge (look at most screens set, like Dirk Nowitzki). Stuff like this has to be taken into account.

Also driving and dishing tendencies are very important. If a player loves the step back, you have to give him a 90+ tendency in 2k as he only uses it when you kind of "overrate" him on that.
User avatar
hova-
Two time Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 5108
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:33 am
Location: Augsburg, Germany

Re: Looking for PC editors for big 2K18 project

Postby TGsoGood on Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:57 pm

Good info and perspective here. I have been using sonicmage's ratings for my own personal retro rosters
Consider donating: http://cash.me/$TheJohnsonFamily or http://paypal.me/4TheGoods
Follow me on twitter @TGsoGood
Check me out on youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPydhZ ... PeRSmEVynQ
User avatar
TGsoGood
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 3701
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:03 am
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: Looking for PC editors for big 2K18 project

Postby SonicMage on Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:19 pm

JEDL wrote:And SonicMage I appreciate you for giving the a PC version a go since everyone is on consoles despite all of us knowing that the PC is superior :lol: . I also took a look at the 99 Mid range for Belinielli and compared it to DeRozan and noticed that there's nothing wrong there at all. Belinelli has 99 Open Mid-Range, 74 Contested Mid-Range and 92 Off Dribble Mid-Range so naturally Beli here should be able to knock down open shots as he's a spot up shooter and you can see his shot effectiveness is much lower when contested at 74 so lets average all those three Mid-Range ratings and we get 88.33 which is pretty good and reflects how he we can shoot from that range and you guys can even look at Basketball-Reference where he has shot the same-ish percentage for several seasons now. Now lets look at DeRozan, he has 87 Open Mid-Range, 98 Contested Mid-Range and 93 Off Dribble Mid-Range with an average of 92.67. I mean we all know DeMar is effective regardless whether he is contested or not but with the 98(!) Contested Mid-Range rating this does not put Belinelli and DeRozan in the same level at all.


Thanks JEDL, I didn't really want to get too deep into a discussion into defending my ratings, because that really wasn't the purpose of coming here and reaching out. Our project needs more PC players to put this thing together as quickly as possible for that platform.

But hey, since we're on the subject. ;) Along with the comparisons you've already mentioned, Derozan has a Gold Midrange Deadeye badge and Belinelli has none, and Belinelli's speed doesn't compare to Derozan's so good luck getting open to be able to use that 99. I mean you can use screens to get him open, but if you're running off screen plays for Belinelli all game that isn't my fault. The CPU won't take advantage of the 99 because of the low-ish midrange tendencies, and I've performed many CPU-CPU tests with the 76ers to confirm that is indeed the case. For sim stats, 99 is equal to shooting 51% from midrange on average, thus the rating you see. I ran some rigorous tests to find that out, too. Just looking at open shots, the Belinelli rating is based on over 60 of them, which is no small sample size. Obviously, Derozan shot twice as many, but for context, Belinelli would have to shoot in the low 30's for his next 60 shots to have his percentage lower enough to match the 42% of Derozan; not believable for a player to suddenly swing his percentages that extremely. So it's pretty obvious Belinelli's higher rating is justified. And just to clarify in case of concern, a 99 rating in 2K for shooting doesn't mean the player is incapable of missing, that's not how it works.
SonicMage
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: Looking for PC editors for big 2K18 project

Postby bluejaybrandon on Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:28 am

That’s all fine and great but what about the missing categories for attributes and tendencies that you don’t have calculated? Are people just supposed to guess for those?
bluejaybrandon
 
Posts: 1063
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:18 am

Re: Looking for PC editors for big 2K18 project

Postby DaCrispy on Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:12 am

Nice work. I don't know what sort of help or support you need but I could help. (Y)
The NLSC's resident Jimmermaniac :cool:

My Lovely Mod : viewtopic.php?f=153&t=104626
My YouTube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCa6R_ ... nZdCjs7E5A
Join My Discord : https://discord.gg/mzeJZF6
User avatar
DaCrispy
Jimmmermaniac
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:59 am
Location: Ireland


Return to NBA 2K18 Modding

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CapStar65 and 16 guests