The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

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The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:15 pm

Video 1- Default HOF

This deserves it's own thread.

I've played quite a bit of 2K18 in between modding. The defense in this game is absolutely horrible. I play on HOF, and no matter who I use I can run by my guy into the paint. I was using Rick Fox on Scottie Pippen and I kept just running by him (Pippen would just get on my side and I'd be at the rim). Everybody feels the same for the most part.

The wing defenders still move out of the way out of bounds when you dribble up the floor. The big guys get open just as much running down the middle of the lane. What makes this game worse than 2K17 defensively is how easy it is to get by anyone with anyone. Not even a challenge on HOF.

This game is weaker gameplay wise for me than 2K17, it doesn't feel right. Not to mention every player looking the same body wise and mostly feeling the same.

I know it's not the popular thing to stick with a past title, but I'm continuing playing pre patch 2k17 in between modding (I'll mod both games). I'm not going to just play something and move on because it's the newest game in a series.


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Video 2 - New Slider Set

So here it is, with your sliders Sticky Fingers. This is me using the Knicks agains tthe Warriors, and literally only driving in a straight line towards the hoop. When I stop the video, I am 10-13 from the floor, up by 4, and on pace for 160 points. It is exactly the same success with your sliders. The defense is complete garbage and broken. Look at the help defense (lack of), I am even going to post the screenshots of the sliders so the people on here can stop saying the defense is good, or better, or just overall a better experience than 2k17. You guys have to be kidding me.... this is the easiest stuff in the world. I could crush the Warriors with the Knicks by driving in a straight line all game.

There are no breaks in this video, this is straight recording, so I cant be accused of doctoring it. Its straight video capture and upload.You guys want to see why I havn't fully moved on? Watch the video and check out those sliders. Look how the defense does 0 to adjust, look how I can run passed anyone with anyone, look how uncontested I am all the time. Nextnba.. a break? EVERY TIME I play the game? Every slider set? You guys cannot possible struggle to score in this game, I am literally doing nothing and roasting the Warriors with the Knicks with straight line drives.

Please stop with the standing up for this, it's horrible. Sko knows how much time I put into these games, its insane. I've been doing this since the early 90's, give me a little more credit next time.


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Video 3 - Different Slider Set

This is with ShadyMikes defensive sliders that he just posted. Now, I am posting this to show that I did try these sliders, and I wanted you folks to see the results. This isn't calling him out, as there was a SLIGHT improvement on interior defense, but nowhere near acceptable under any standards.

4 minute quarters, the whole game. Im using the Celtics vs the Warriors, every single shot attempt is a straight line drive (With the exception of 1 putback I attempted, woops).

Game Facts:

1. I win by 12 against the best team in the NBA in 4 minute quarters. It probably would have been an over 30 point blowout if I had played 12 minute quarters.
2. I shot 23/37 from the field, good for 63%. ALL on straight line drives to the hoop.
3. You will see me use many different Celtics on many different defenders. Watch the defense especially in the 4th quarter, where I am just running through and around Klay Thompson effortlessly to score.
4. Every single play is an iSO with the exception of one attempted putback.
5. Not one move was made, not one play was run (other than ISO), zero strategy.
6. I had 46 points in the paint. If this was 12 minute quarters, I could have had 138 points in the paint...... 138 points in the paint!!!
7. Many layups were missed right at the rim after I easily got by my guy and help didnt come. The FG% realistically should have been even higher.

This set has CPU with:

Body Up Sensitivity: 100
Driving Contact Dunk Frequency: 100
Inside Shot Contact Frequency: 100
Layup Defense Strength (Takeoff): 100
Layup Defense Strength (Release): 100
Help Defense Strength: 100
On-Ball Defense: 100
Blocking: 80
Defensive Awareness: 90
Defensive Rebounding: 80
Lateral Quickness: 70
Go for on ball steals: 100
Contest Shots: 100
Strength: 50 (User at 30)

So you guys are telling me, with these super extreme sliders... I can just run into the paint with no moves or no strategy, be on pace for about 138 pts in the paint (with 12 min quarters), and blowout the best team in the league? Do you see why I don't have any interest in this game at the moment? You cant get higher than 100 on those sliders people, thats as high as you can jack it up. So what you saw in that video might be the best you can get for defense.... thats the best you can probably do.

Shady, putting layup defense at 100 gave the Warriors a few blocks. But you know as well as I do that it's still game breaking, the fact that I can do this all game and blowout the best team in the NBA... its insane. Look at the sliders and how little they do (I want to say again, not your fault). I shot 70% in the Knicks vs Warriors game, and 63% here, all with straight line drives.

I am hoping that they do patch the game, that would be fantastic. Because anything is better than this. See how that 4th quarter went? You think I want anything to do with a game that I can just run around or through my guy and score the majority of the time? What fun is that? You want me to start a MyLeague with that ability? Do you guys want me to fake doing dribble moves for no reason just because they look cool? Want me to run plays I dont need to run? Its silly.

Do you see how the defense doesn't adjust ALL GAME. How no adjustment happens at all in the 4th quarter? This 2K is the furthest from a basketball sim on next gen, hands down.

It was stated that me playing like this is not the way they expect us to play... umm... Klay Thompson just letting me run by him with Marcus Smart whenever I want is not how I expect the GAME to play. The game needs to supply the resistance, it's not my fault that nobody can stay in front of anyone, or that help hardly ever comes. Somehow I am playing the wrong way? the game is playing the wrong way, the game allows this to happen. Have you watched my gameplay videos? I do play the right way when it's necessary, I move the ball, I post up, I set screens, etc. I don't need to do any of that in this game, I can shoot 63% on the best team in the league just running into the paint. See how crazy that was in the 4th quarter with those jacked up sliders? Do you see how boring and dull it is to know that I can literally just run into the paint on the best defenders in the league?

C'mon guys... lets be real here. It's totally broken. However, I want to give Shady props for doing his best to focus on the gameplay and find fixes, its tedious work. It's a lot of testing, a lot of playing, a lot of simulating, it's a lot of things. So, be glad we have him around.


phpBB [video]
Last edited by Dee4Three on Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:32 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby nextnba on Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:34 pm

I think you have the speed/AI break that is known to happen to many in 2k. I had it in 2k17 but once I got a solid state hard drive, the speed and AI was much more stable. When it happens, all players speed become really fast and cpu no longer play on-ball defense and you blow by them at will. I've only started playing the 2k18 today and is just testing it out but so far, the speed and AI has been stable and it's been really hard for me drive pass my defender. They actually come right up to my face at times and when I'm able to get by, the off ball defenders help out really well on defense. The defense is really improved. If you want to test it out, remove your video driver and reinstall it. Usually, when you do this, the game will will be stable for like 2 quarters, where the speed is normal and you can't really by defenders. Then you will see it break after half-time and you can get by defender at will.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:37 pm

With all due respect, that has nothing to do with it.... nothing.

2K17 is playing perfect right now. The SSD drive helps with loading screens and distant objects not popping. It has nothing to do with speed breaks, however that is not what is happening here anyway.

A SSD wouldn't make Pippen be so easy to blow by, or anybody for that matter. I've seen other people mention it's easy to get by people, but for me it's game breaking. I can get by anybody at any time I want.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby nextnba on Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:42 pm

Well, I'm telling you that it's not happening to me. At least not now. Maybe the game will break on me with time but so far defense has been great. And from what I can read on here, it's not happening to most people. Even when I play with L. James, I find it really hard to get by my defenders and get to the basket. I also play in Hall of Fame mode and I've been playing nba 2k for many years. This is the best AI defense I've seen in years. I went 2/7 with L James in the first quarter and only got to the basket with him once. I think half of my shots were 3's because it was almost impossible for me to get to the basket.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:44 pm

We can disagree.

I can round the corner on anyone. It's cake.

It's not speed breaks, it's the game.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby nextnba on Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:52 pm

Most of my 3's were contested too. I kept trying to get by CPU and eventually can't do it and run out of time so I those it out to a 3 point shooter at the buzzer. Seriously, if you are getting by cpu at will, it's a break. I'm actually trying to get by CPU because I'm testing it to see if I have the same break from 2k17 and so far, it's been good and stable. I haven't even played a full game yet. I'm just testing to see if the break is happening and if I can get by CPU at will and so far I can't. But I will keep playing and see what happens.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:54 pm

A break would make sense if it was impacting the other aspects of the gameplay. But when I have full control of my speed and ball handling with my offensive player, and when I am playing defense, it doesn't make sense that a break would just allow me to get the defender on my side all the time. None of my other games are "breaking" either.

You see my problem with that logic?
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby nextnba on Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:21 pm

All I can say is that it's hard for me to get by defenders. I either get stuck and have to pass the ball out or if I get by, another defender comes in and I have to pass the ball out. The few times that I do get by, I get foul almost every time at the basket when trying to do a layup/dunk. I even tried pick and rolls and that doesn't work like 2k17. You team mates sets shitty picks and it's hard to take advantage of pick like in 2k17. CPU recovers well on pick and roll plays. So far, the only way for me to really take advantage is doing back down post. CPU post defense is bad and it seems like 2k gives your player multiple new post moves this year so it's easy to score near the basket on post moves.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:29 pm

Again we can disagree. The defense is horrible to me. I'm glad you are enjoying the game
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby nextnba on Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:05 pm

If ur defense is bad, I still think you have a break. I can't get by defenders at all..even when there is a switch and I have Curry against a C, I still can't get by him. And if I really force it, there is always contact at the rim and I usually miss. From what I read, people are having the same situation with defense AI. My only recommending is in slider, there is a new "Movement" sliders. I don't know what you have yours set up too but I would suggest decreasing speed and acceleration there and that should make it much harder to get by defenders.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby PeacemanNOT on Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:17 pm

From the little that I've played I've loved the game, a lot better than 2K17 in all aspects. However defense does feel sluggish at random moments. I'm not sure if it's the game or an actual hardware problem (my computer is starting to become a little outdated).

I haven't really encountered what Dee is talking about where you can drive by anyone, I actually find it hard to get by people when on offense. I might have to test this out a bit more.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby m29a on Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:01 pm

Dee4Three wrote:no matter who I use I can run by my guy into the paint.

What makes this game worse than 2K17 defensively is how easy it is to get by anyone with anyone.


I'd rather have that than the brick wall D we've had since... forever. For me in past titles I literally had to use pick and roll almost every time to even have a chance to get by anyone, even a weak defender or a slow big. 2K16/17 were bad for that. 2K15 was okay in that regard. But this year? It's realistic, in real life there is a lot of hip-riding because as a defender irl you can't just block people, it'd be a foul.

I guess they could tweak the default HOF sliders (or you can tweak, so many sliders to work with) to make it more difficult. But I personally never want brick walling ever again (and it's still here, somewhat).

They finally fixed my key issue I had with the series. This is by far my favorite 2K.

Just my 2c.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby CarolusXCI on Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:10 pm

Did you have any success tweaking the sliders?
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:13 pm

Zero success tweaking the sliders.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby CarolusXCI on Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:26 pm

I tried to bump the Def. Awareness all the way to 100, and I liked the results. On HoF difficulty, it is at 65. The rest of the sliders I adjust to 50/50. So the difficulty is "custom". I feel like the HoF only nerfs the user attributes and buffs the cpu ones. Defensive awareness looks a little bit different than the rest though. It seems like cpu takes better decisions defensively when that slider is at 100. I don't feel the game harder because I'm nerfed, but instead because the cpu won't let Dirk open on pick'n' pop situations, or because Kawhi will poke the ball loose if I force a straight-line drive animation too much, for example.

I still can drive in a straight line, but less often, and when it does happen, the shot is normally contested or blocked, so I end up taking a shot from somewhere else.

Maybe it's only an impression though.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby bongo88 on Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:23 pm

Sam Pham made a video about defensive settings. It's rather long, but he goes over settings and then shows a video clip of defensive coach settings in action.
i like the clips displaying the different settings.

Of course ACE has to be turned off. Otherwise, the coach settings would be over-ruled. (from what i've read, ace just seems to be broken, just in general.)

anyways, it involves setting the coach defensive settings for each team and not leaving anything on auto. anyways, it's a pretty good video, if y'all wanna watch it.

*Edit* these settings interface is only available after you start a game. my memory thought it was part of the roster settings for each team, but the coach settings have a very slimmed down version. that's too bad. anyways, these are settings for your team mates and not all cpu ai.

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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby mitzkiro58 on Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:14 pm

I put defense slider to 100 still weak wtf?! Need next patch 2k!
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby nextnba on Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:54 pm

It's a break. I have it now too. It takes a few games of playing. It's the same as 2k17..At first you play and the speed is slow, CPU plays onball defense, and it's really hard to drive pass CPU. CPU feels like a brick and your players feel like they have weight. After a few games of playing, the speed and defense breaks. The speed becomes much faster, your players no longer have weight, and AI defense no longer play onball defense. I tried changing a few sliders too but when it breaks, sliders no longer work. 2k has been like this for last 3-4 years. When it doesn't break, it works really well but when it breaks, it's like playing a game with no sliders at all. You can change sliders here and there and it seems to get better for a little bit but then the game adjusted to the slider change and it starts to play like it has no slider again.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby TGsoGood on Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:51 am

Dee4Three I believe it is a gameplay mechanic. Straightline drives mostly result in the defense going into the "hip riding" animation. Honestly I'm ok with this when using current teams because it gives me that "this era has soft defense" feel lmao!

But it does suck when running into this same issue playing against retro teams (no handchecking rules) or even with elite defenders.
I don't mind having 2K17 defense for 90s and prior as well as having elite perimeter defenders not get caught in that animation so easily.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:41 am

TGsoGood wrote:Dee4Three I believe it is a gameplay mechanic. Straightline drives mostly result in the defense going into the "hip riding" animation. Honestly I'm ok with this when using current teams because it gives me that "this era has soft defense" feel lmao!

But it does suck when running into this same issue playing against retro teams (no handchecking rules) or even with elite defenders.
I don't mind having 2K17 defense for 90s and prior as well as having elite perimeter defenders not get caught in that animation so easily.


Thank you for recognizing that it's a gameplay mechanic as opposed to a break. Even if the defender is right in front of me, I do the straight line drive you speak of and easily get to the hoop with little to no resistance. Ratings seem to be thrown out the window at that point.

And I don't like that in any era. If it was that easy, Jae Crowder in real life would be a dominant slasher, so would the legend Brian Cook when he was playing. For me, it's a killer. Stonewall defense absolutely happens in real life at times (hence the term, being "shut off" by a defender). There needs to be a happy medium.

The gameplay feels out of control partially because of this gameplay issue.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby TGsoGood on Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:57 am

I do think it is something that can be fixed, the stonewall defense is still in the game but it is triggered far less.
I know its in the game because I tested the straight line drives mechanic last week using Celtics vs. Cavs. I was celtics.
After getting past Lebron with Tatum, the next play I tried the exact same thing and Lebron bodied Tatum, would not let him go any where. This was on Superstar settings. That alone let me know that it is in the game but for some reason it is only rarely triggered.

You should do some testing and notate the results, it will make a difference in what you notice happening. I tested straightline drives by doing nothing but straightline drives for 2 entire games (3 min quarters).
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby sticky-fingers on Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:13 am

Dee4Three, you're right about driving to the basket is too simple now against the CPU.
But I appreciate the fact that stonewall defense is over, most of the time.
it was something we could disable with the sliders on 2K11/13/14, but hard to disable on next gen versions.
In fact, both are unrealistic, but i prefear 2K18 version.

I dont know if it can be fix by the sliders, but playing a game vs CPU is more enjoyable on 2K18 than on 2K17, and at this point it's with the default and horrible 2K rosters, and on HoF sliders.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby hova- on Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:41 am

Its possible to fix it with sliders. Im working on the sliders right now. I think that also in real life many nba players can drive past their defender, but the question is what can they do with the defender still on them driving to the hoop. Also help defense plays a role. I will work on it.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby TGsoGood on Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:51 am

hova- wrote:Its possible to fix it with sliders. Im working on the sliders right now. I think that also in real life many nba players can drive past their defender, but the question is what can they do with the defender still on them driving to the hoop. Also help defense plays a role. I will work on it.


I lean more toward this interpretation of the defense after my own testing. But it could just be my preference.
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Re: The defense is not better - My opinion

Postby StyxTx on Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:36 am

Isn't it possible to fix defense by adjusting the defensive settings in the game plan? I know in the past, having everything set on automatic made things a mess. This video explains what I'm talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIPDiMgDhIQ
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