The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

[sticky-fingers]

There's really something broken with these sliders.

I tried 50000 on defensive values : nothing change

So i even changed the type of value (float to 4 bytes), 0.1 by 1167867904
nothing change and no crash

[Dee4Three]

There's really something broken with these sliders.

I tried 50000 on defensive values : nothing change

So i even changed the type of value (float to 4 bytes), 0.1 by 1167867904
nothing change and no crash

I think it's because the game can only recognize up to 100. Meaning, anything you put above it won't matter, it will still play at 100.

[diamenz]

playing sim is a choice, dee. call plays, take mid range and 3pt shots. don't iso drive with shaq, etc.

u can exploit 2k18 with iso drives the same way u can exploit 17 with pnr cheese, and zig zag cheese in past 2k's.

[Dee4Three]

That doesn't make it any less of an issue. They need to make it so it's not so easy and make it so players differentiate from eachother with how they perform on the court.

Again, I have the same success getting my by guy with almost anybody in the game. That is a problem.

Also I can't fake sim and enjoy it, knowing what capabilities I have on any position (just run by)

In 2k17, the pnr can be overpowering, but it doesn't work all the time. And, I have to use the right passer in order to succeed more, I have to time it right, etc. It's not the same to me. Also, I can run the pick n roll super easy in 2K18 as well.

But that doesn't even matter, I'm talking about a glaring 2K18 issue.

[fjccommish]

"playing sim is a choice, dee. call plays, take mid range and 3pt shots. don't iso drive with shaq, etc."

In crunch time of an important game, how do you know some little thing you do down the stretch is playing sim?

It's not fun to play a game in which you know you can drive for a winning basket, but instead you shoot a jump shot because driving is too easy.

[Dee4Three]

I'll give you another example of why the defense is a true gamebreaker.

So I'm playing my brother last night, and we are moving the ball and doing dribble moves (Not sure why, I guess for entertainment value). One possession comes up where I am towards the end of the shot clock, I need to score quick. I pass to the three point line where Brook Lopez is standing, and I proceed to take it in with a fast bursting slash with Lopez, no help comes, and I flush a wide open dunk. This my friends, can be done on every possession.

Could my brother play defense on the ball to shut me off or stop me? Nah, when I make a my driving motion, he is glued to my hip and he can't control that. So, he is dominated by the super perimeter slashing abilities of Brook Lopez.

So if a close game ever broke out (It never has against the CPU, because the CPU is the worst maybe in 2K history), I could literally just say "Here you go" and throw it to my center, or anybody else, and drive. If I need a basket at the end of a game or shot clock (Which never happens against the CPU, because they are horrible), I would easily get out of that jam by passing to anybody and just running to the hoop for a super high percentage shot, any... time... I... want...

This is why the whole "Force yourself to play sim" as an excuse for the gameplay issue that really bugs me. You are telling me, that if I am at the end of the shot clock or in a close game, that I can't go to the highest percentage play on the floor, or I shouldn't try to score in the most productive play possible. So... I am going to do some fancy shit on the floor, or take a contested shot, or do a shimmy post fade or something just because? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? That's why this is a huge game issue.

BTW, use the 10-11 Mavericks for a game. Jason Kidd is just as fast, with the same dribbling ability and scoring ability as Allen Iverson. I was using him last night, you guys have to be kidding me. Players literally all blend in together. I can do the same stuff with basically every player.

And, the transition defense is just as bad or worse than 2K17. My god... you can literally just run up the sideline and score whenever you want, its horrible. The halfcourt defense is THE WORST. How did this game get released like this?

The more I play the game, the more I get frustrated. The game has so many glaring issues. The skating seems worse every time I play it, the skating is like the old Live games.

[Barkley_Sixers]

Am I missing something here? I totally agree about CPU defense, but CPU offense, specially when I play against an All-time team, is simply murdering me. I try to avoid using the ISO cheese all the time, but I just can't because I can't make them miss shots or make them commit turnovers, while I commit 15+ TOs and brick almost every jump shot. It's a guarentee loss if I shoot less than 60% from the field against an All-time team

[Dee4Three]

Am I missing something here? I totally agree about CPU defense, but CPU offense, specially when I play against an All-time team, is simply murdering me. I try to avoid using the ISO cheese all the time, but I just can't because I can't make them miss shots or make them commit turnovers, while I commit 15+ TOs and brick almost every jump shot. It's a guarentee loss if I shoot less than 60% from the field against an All-time team

That puzzles me, because even when I play All Time Teams on default HOF I destroy them and hold them to low FG. I don't find the CPU a challenge at all. This isn't me being cocky (You know me better than that on here), I just find the shot selection from them predictable, closing out is easy, they go up on multiple defenders down low, they rarely hit anything in the paint. Yes, even against the all time teams it seems.

Do you close out on the shooters with the joystick? Do you just hold the joystick forward on them when they go up for a shot in the paint? Do you get in the shooters space? They seriously miss most of the shots they take when you do that. So, if you get used to the odd way the CPU plays in the game, and you are closing out often or get underneath the guy shooting, you should be holding them to a low percentage.

Combine that with the ability to shoot over 60% from the floor yourself and get to the hoop at will... that's why it ends up being easy.

[Barkley_Sixers]

Well, I think I know what is the problem now. Over the years I learned the habit of always controlling the Center on defense because the CPU have always been decent at On-ball defense, but terrible defense at the rim and poor boxout, so I have always been more successful leaving the perimeter for the CPU. But since the On-ball defense is shit all over the place, I think I will change my strategy and defend the shooters myself to see how that goes. But just thinking about leaving the rim protection and boxout to the CPU triggers me. This also happens when I play MyCareer with my Center. They can't do shit at the rim with me protecting it, but my teammates leave shooters open all the time

[Dee4Three]

Yeah, like we talked about in PM. Becoming a master at icon switching can change the whole defensive experience, sitting in the paint with the center relying on the bad defense of your perimeter will only allow the CPU to get open shots. If you icon switch around the perimeter and guard the ball, you can close out on the shooters, and... the computer is predictable in my opinion, if you play "In your space" defense and push the joystick towards the defender, it will cause protected shots or just good ol contested shots that have a high chance of bricks. In the paint, its as easy as not always jumping for blocks, just using your joystick towards the defender on his shot and he has a VERY high chance of missing when you are contesting those.

[sticky-fingers]

I don't find the CPU a challenge at all. This isn't me being cocky (You know me better than that on here), I just find the shot selection from them predictable, closing out is easy, they go up on multiple defenders down low, they rarely hit anything in the paint. Yes, even against the all time teams it seems.

it's better with jacksalas tendencies.

About easy drive, have you seen that last night ? :

phpBB [video]

there's only few games played in SL, nothing but in highlights there's a lot a easy drive ; and not only aliens
that doesnt mean there's no problem and in a better 2K world, we should be able to use "your" ISO system.

[Dee4Three]

Both 2K17 and 2K18 had defense issues via one on one. In 2K17, the brick wall defense happened too much, in 2K18, it's a free for all with any player. 2K17 had its issues, but atleast in that game I had to breakdown my guy, and use the right player to do it. In 2K18, I can use anyone and not even do moves. It's the ultra extreme of that that makes it worse.

Let's say 2K17 didn't exist, I would still be harping on this issue just as much, and, I would probably just be playing Live or 2K14 for the PC.

That is a sweet take, and I never said it should just be aliens. I said that I shouldn't be able to get by any defender, with any player, any time I want.

I watched both the Celtics vs Knicks and Clippers vs Pacers last night. I can't even count the number of times players were shut off by the defender. Either by help defense, or the defender literally just sliding his feet and not allowing the offensive player to get by.

The game has to achieve a happy medium, because this defense is taking it to the extreme, it's that bad. I would go as far as saying its the worst defense I have encountered in this gen or last gen. Because the transition defense is also abysmal, players still get lost in the halfcourt all the time, AND I can drive by anyone at anytime with an extremely high success rate.

[Kevmire]

I agree that the defence is quite broken this year. Just thinking out loud, I’m wondering if anyone has played with the strength slider? Perhaps strength ratings? I’ve noticed that when I play I can drive to the basket easier with the stronger guys. Even if they are slow. It’s like I can push right through/past them. I noticed on the slider sets posted on this thread strength has remained at 50.

[Kevmire]

I agree that the defence is quite broken this year. Just thinking out loud, I’m wondering if anyone has played with the strength slider? Perhaps strength ratings? I’ve noticed that when I play I can drive to the basket easier with the stronger guys. Even if they are slow. It’s like I can push right through/past them. I noticed on the slider sets posted on this thread strength has remained at 50.

[Dee4Three]

I agree that the defence is quite broken this year. Just thinking out loud, I’m wondering if anyone has played with the strength slider? Perhaps strength ratings? I’ve noticed that when I play I can drive to the basket easier with the stronger guys. Even if they are slow. It’s like I can push right through/past them. I noticed on the slider sets posted on this thread strength has remained at 50.

I have tried messing with that, I feel like I have tried everything. The game forces the defender on my side no matter what. It an automatic acceleration either by him or him stuck to me, and its with any player.

Thanks for the suggestion, though.

[CarolusXCI]

I decreased the acceleration with ball to 0 (min) and 50 (max). It helps because players have now a much slower first step, which avoids the hip ridding animation being triggered. But of course it does feel like players are stuck in the mud sometimes. And, if you try the first step after a dribble move, it is still very quick so the hip ridding occurs.

Btw, a saw this video on the OS forums:

phpBB [video]

[Dee4Three]

Thanks, but I have already tried this with 2 other slider sets. Not only does the hip riding animation still happen (All you have to do is keep going, you can even still do it with centers), but being stuck in the mud is the worst feeling in a sports game. I absolutely hate that.

[Dee4Three]

Did you guys watch the second half of the Celtics game last night? The Celtics rookie Semi was guarding Giannis for a good part of the second half, Giannis kept trying to get by him.. and he kept getting SHUT OFF. He literally couldn't go baseline like he wanted, he couldn't even get to the hoop. One possession, he got shut off like 3 times, and ended up shooting an airball. That's the Rookie Semi, vs an MVP candidate.

Irving also attempted numerous times to get by before the double team came, or after a pick n roll, and was completely shut off. That's one of the best ball handlers/guards in the league.

This is impossible in 2K18, do you see why I prefer 2K17 in the halfcourt, it's the lesser of two evils. I can get shut off in 2K17, but get by with the correct moves or on the correct matchup. In 2K18, no chance ever of being stopped going to the hoop.

Watching the Clippers play the Jazz the other night, Rubio was shut off repeatedly, so was Blake Griffin (He had to keep going into a backdown motion). Beverley was shut off like 70% of the time , but when he wasn't, he would get by baseline and be met by about 3 Jazz players and have to pass it out the perimeter because of the congestion and help (Which resulted in a turnover many times, I think he had 7).

Austin Rivers, one of the quicker dribblers and guards in general in the league, was having to settle for deep threes because he was also getting repeatedly shut off.

THAT is basketball, offensive players having to use technique to get by the defender. Defenders having an impact on the overall game, defense meaning something. The Celtics won last night with defense, it was a defensive win. They were not allowing the Bucks to get in the paint, even the MVP candidate.

[Barkley_Sixers]

Ironically, I came here just to post the video of Semi vs Giannis Lol. It's the exact possession that you are talking about

https://streamable.com/tppzq

[Dee4Three]

Ironically, I came here just to post the video of Semi vs Giannis Lol. It's the exact possession that you are talking about

https://streamable.com/tppzq

Beautiful! That's basketball!

That's a rookie shutting down a MVP Candidate, the whole half. I won't be shut down using Ariza being guarded by Leonard in 2K18, not once! I can just run by him.

Do you know how many people get shut off like that in the NBA? It is 100 times a game. I play in real life, and the same thing Happens. I can try to slash to the hoop, only stopped in my tracks by bumping into the defender who has a strong defensive stance and arms stretched out. The best ball handlers, the fastest players (Even Westbrook), get shut off all the time. That's why this system is so flawed and broken.

Every single person who has been arguing with me, every person who is contesting how bad 2K18 defense is, just watch that video. It's exactly what I am talking about, pretty awesome you found the exact play.

Thank you for sharing that!

[Barkley_Sixers]

Being so used to the defense of 2k18, I found that video pratically unreal. First of all, he tries to do a spin move in the post and just can't get past him (For me, that move is a free basket since 2k17 and even more easier on 2k18). Later, he drives baseline and the "unreal brick defense" activates and is forced to throw an airball. Strange, I have heard some people say that stopping a ball-handler is a blocking-foul

[Dee4Three]

It's not a blocking foul if the defender is standing his ground, or gets to the position FIRST, or backing up. Watch Semi, he is doing what happens so often in the NBA when players get shut off, he is getting to the position before the offensive player gets to it. If Giannis tried to plow through, it would be a charge. Disciplined defense shuts off the offense all the time.

My complaint with 2K17 was that the bumping was a bit excessive (especially after the patches), and the bump would sometimes put you in a staggering animation that lasted a second or 1.5 seconds. However, the brick wall defense is VERY real, it does happen like on that play, and it happens a lot. It's called the defensive player beating the offensive player to the spot.

Did you see what Semi did? He shut off the baseline.. that happens zero in NBA 2K18. I can drive baseline 100% of the time with anyone and get by anyone. Did you see the defensive movement at the top of the key? They were also shutting off any possibility of penetration, the ball had to be worked back around to Giannis. When someone does get put "in Jail", it's like that Semi play (Using the out of bounds as another defender) or intentionally pushing the offensive player baseline so its like having another defender, and if that's done its usually intentional to push the offensive player into HELP DEFENSE and clog him up.

The ACE system, or whatever you want to call it, is all for show. The defense has no smarts in this game, no intelligence. The offense will be dribbling up the floor with only one defender back, and the defender (I showed this on my demo video) will literally just let him go by, and try to guard his man in the backcourt. This game even has worse transition defense than NBA 2K17.

Do you guys see why I have NO INTEREST in modding this game right now? Do you think I want to spend hundreds of hours making Attributes and Tendencies that won't impact how they play on the court at all? In the video above, Deandre Jordan is lost constantly, and he is considered a top big guy defensively.. you think I want to go through the trouble of creating Charles Barkley, just so that when he goes out there on defense (Or offense driving) he is no different than Yabusele? You have to be kidding me... you really want me to make the attributes and tendencies for a guy like Kevin Johnson, but when he is out on the floor he will have the same ability as Terry Rozier? Right....

We have had numerous people just vanish from this discussion, people who argued with me. First my game was broken.... EVERY TIME I played it... I was told I would be "Swatted into the third row" by Ben Simmons, and that certain slider sets would fix or curve the issue, I have been told that I need to force myself to play sim (Still a huge wow on that one), I've been told that I was exaggerating, I was told that I was fudging my videos (altering them). But all of those people have vanished...

For those people who did, and I am guessing you still look in from time to time, watch the video for an exact example of what I am talking about. At this point, I am completely frustrated. Why is this a big deal to me? Because I have two brothers who are my life, a big part of our life is playing 2K together. its huge... the happiness that they have is very important to me. On top of that, I am invested in these games with my time, I make videos for the community, I mod for the community, I also want enjoyment when playing with them.

https://streamable.com/tppzq

THIS IS A FLAWED ARCADE GAME BEING FLAUNTED AS A SIMULATION

A game that preys on people for VC, and completely disregards offline basketball. A game that flaunts a new motion system, that boasts better defense, that really has no idea what it's doing in regards to real basketball. It's a game that attempts to cater to the online gamer who wants the game easy, meanwhile they take money from them at will with an even worse VC push. A game that is dead with atmosphere that doesn't remotely resemble real life. A game with oversized heads along with every player not looking like an athlete. Players with eyeballs going through eyelids. Players skating uncontrollably all over the floor. The CPU playing nothing like real life, not even close, the AI just skating into the paint and standing there only to go up on multiple defenders. CPU taking sideaway and fadeaway three's when they are wide open, players that would never shoot those shots anyway. 2K would never want me to work for them, because this game would never have been released like this, it would have been postponed or fixed much sooner, these problems would have been identified much earlier on in the process and erased, and questioned "Why did we create this problem???".

Leftos said last year that the problems were not easy to fix. NOBODY said they were, but Leftos... problems were CREATED, and I mean a lot of them. They were created and right in front of you to see. I am not saying you or anybody else who lurks here has anything to do with them, or that you can fix them, I am just making a very valid point. The fact that a company this big, with this many eyes on them, can get away with this... is complete and total garbage. The fact that reviewers rant and rave about it, and call it everything it's not, because either they are not experienced enough to notice, don't give a shit, or are under 2K's payroll (Or are intimidated by them), is an absolute depressing joke.

The people who allowed all of these issues into the final production should be ashamed of themselves, and the people who prey on kids via VC to this extreme should have trouble sleeping at night......

This is a great listen, so please pay attention. Plus, this guys accent is also enjoyable. But listen to him closely, he is someone who used to work for a review company, and is now independent. Listen to the whole thing. Outside of all the gameplay issues (Which are pure trash), you have the preying on the loyal consumers.

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

This game Is getting MURDERED on Steam reviews.

[CarolusXCI]

Yea, probably I won't be buying NBA 2k19. Personally, I really don't like 2K's recent approach to both online and offline gameplay.

I've spent a bunch of hours modding this year's game, but not nearly as much playing it, because it simply isn't that fun.

[PeacemanNOT]

If they don't move away from the whole VC extortion bullshit, I won't be buying the game next year either. Hopefully I will stand to my word and not fall for the hype like I do every year. Like I've always said, I've never been huge when it comes to gameplay, so stuff like that passes me by.

I personally don't mind the gameplay this year, although the majority of my time has been spent on modding so what do I know? I get enjoyment out of modding things into the game regardless if it's a shit game or not, it sucks that Dee doesn't feel the same. Also... those Steam reviews are a true representation of this game, no one gives a more accurate review than the people who actually play it. I question these game reviews and how much money 2K had to fork out to get such high reviews. It's either that or these reviewers are fucking blind and are the most casual players ever. Props to the certain companies who can actually see through their scam. It's times like these I wish we could get a change of scenery with a NBA Live PC release.

[StyxTx]

This game Is getting MURDERED on Steam reviews.

Which means 2k will probably pull the plug on any future PC version.