So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

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So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:09 am

Embedded in the dark depths of the NBA Live 14 section of the forum, is NBA Elite 11 discussion....

I spent a good chunk of my day today reading all the lead up to Elite 11, the promoting of it, the horrible demo impressions, and the eventual cancel.

The reason I find this relevant today, is where Live is now.

Elite 11 was a major, major disappointment. From reading, it seems that most people wanted them to build on Live 10, which for the most part was received well. They went in a completely different direction and tried a complete overhaul in one year... that's right... a completely different experience in ONE YEAR. This game set Live back years, so where are we now?

NBA Live 14, Live 15, and Live 16 felt mostly the same to me. I felt that they still couldn't get the feel right, they couldn't get the animations right. I am putting aside graphics right now, because gameplay is the most important aspect of any game. Live again takes a year off, and comes back with live 18 (Which I also purchased), and we start to see a little progress, but still a huge lack of depth mode's wise and customization wise.

My question for you guys, what do you think would have happened if they stayed with the Live 10 progress and built on that? Do you think they would be competing with NBA 2K today? It's been on my mind a lot today (Sad, I know). Do you like the current direction of Live, and do you think that they can compete in the foreseeable future?

Also, are you surprised that when NBA Elite 11 was so poorly received, that another company didn't jump on the opportunity to create a basketball title that could legit give 2K a run for it's money?

Oh, and for your enjoyment.. the "you can't be serious" guy.

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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby Andrew on Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:34 am

It was obviously a bad decision in hindsight, but even at the time, it sounded risky and obviously didn't pay off. NBA Elite 11 had some worthy concepts (free throw shooting, some of the features in Become Legendary), but the approach to gameplay was misguided and ultimately unsuitable for a basketball video game.

Looking back on it now, I would suggest that it would've indeed been far preferable to keep building on NBA Live 10, continuing to improve and innovate with the modes of the time, introducing a career mode as they intended to do with Become Legendary in NBA Elite 11, and fine-tuning gameplay. At some point, they would need to introduce new tech to improve the feel and responsiveness, as well as the AI, but I think they'd have kept a more solid foundation to build upon, and the transition to the next generation might've been smoother.

The direction for NBA Elite 11 was ambitious and had good intentions, but it just wasn't the right way to go, and certain aspects were definitely flawed. There were certain parts of the demo that I liked, and I think I would've tried to make the most out of the full game, but it wouldn't have been the right direction at the end of the day, and unfortunately it set the series back.
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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby Izzy Snow on Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:40 pm

I would've preferred they stick with Live 10 as the foundation and still somehow implement some of the ideas both modes/gameplay wise in NBA Elite 11. But, it was meant to be. If things didn't happen the way they did, we might be playing a game called NBA Elite 18. I always preferred the Live name anyway.

As for the direction their currently going, I like it. Now they have a true solid foundation in 18 and base on the few patches already released, the game is getting better and better. Here's to hoping that we'll see more depth in their current modes for 19.
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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby Andrew on Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:05 am

Yeah, on top of everything else, the name change never sat well with me. It doesn't roll off the tongue as easily, and threw away years of established branding. With everything that happened, going back to the Live branding was for the best.
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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:59 am

Agreed on the name. I thought it was silly at the time, and even now. Not sure why they changed it when Live was still doing okay.

Also, if they smooth out the gameplay, have more modes and more depth. And roster editing... I absolutely think they can compete. That's not over asking at this point, considering they have a decent foundation now.
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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby Andrew on Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:46 am

That's my hope. Some big strides in NBA Live 19, and the game is in pretty good shape. It seems to have garnered more support, optimism, and goodwill this year, even with some of its shortcomings. That has to bode well.

I guess the attempted re-brand was meant to emphasise the new direction, so it makes sense in that regard. It's probably for the best looking back on it now, since they were able to scrap the name and distance themselves from the situation when they finally rebooted the series, though obviously there have been other problems since.
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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:33 am

Watching footage of Live 09, Kobe's shot animation looks awesome. I also think the graphics looked better in 09 than in 10.

The pace of Live 09 looks better as well.

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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby Andrew on Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:28 am

My biggest complaint in NBA Live 09 was the stalled rebounding animation, where you'd go for the board but your player would only do a little hop instead of jumping like you wanted them to. Otherwise, it's pretty solid.
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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby [Q] on Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:09 am

Nba live 10 was a really fun game. I was late to the Live Run mode but that was my favorite part, playing online with NBA players. Loved the hangar practice mode and the intro to the games too.

Responsiveness was pretty good, and they rewarded you for moving the ball and taking open shots so the mid-range game was important

I thought there was enough of live 10 in elite 11, but my biggest gripe were the button changes for no reason. They moved a lot of the buttons around and I remember that made it more difficult to play. I actually did like the free throw shooting method with the sticks though. Seemed more realistic than t meter or right stick flick methods
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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:09 am

[Q] wrote:Responsiveness was pretty good


This is what I believe has been lacking in the last 4 NBA Live's. Every one doesn't feel responsive with the controls. There is always a slight delay, it makes the game not as fun or free.
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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby [Q] on Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:19 am

That's the 2K effect. Everybody wants long smooth animations
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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:31 am

[Q] wrote:That's the 2K effect. Everybody wants long smooth animations


I don't want long animations, I want smooth animations. I want a hook shot to look like a hook shot, not 3 animations to get to the release which makes it feel unnatural and robotic. I want to come off a screen and be able to catch and shoot, not go through multiple animations that make it look and feel robotic before the release (or cause an unrealistic delay.. which happens often)

Smooth animations are absolutely important. If you were playing a platformer, and every time you went to jump, or roll, or fire a weapon it felt robotic and unnatural, you would not like the gameplay as much.

It's not the "2k effect", it the "realism effect and feel" we are looking for.
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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby Andrew on Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:18 am

[Q] wrote:I thought there was enough of live 10 in elite 11, but my biggest gripe were the button changes for no reason. They moved a lot of the buttons around and I remember that made it more difficult to play. I actually did like the free throw shooting method with the sticks though. Seemed more realistic than t meter or right stick flick methods


Agreed. I really liked that free throw method, and was pleased that 2K adopted a similar approach in NBA 2K17 (stick aiming, release at the right time). A shame they went away from it in NBA 2K18. Other than that though, some control concepts in NBA Elite 11 just didn't work out. The lack of a sprint button was a particularly bad idea.
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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby ThaLiveKing on Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:57 am

Dee4Three wrote:Watching footage of Live 09, Kobe's shot animation looks awesome. I also think the graphics looked better in 09 than in 10.

The pace of Live 09 looks better as well.

phpBB [video]


After looking at this game play, you couldn't tell me I didn't clean up the game play in 09 with by adjusting the player ratings

phpBB [video]
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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:33 am

ThaLiveKing wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:Watching footage of Live 09, Kobe's shot animation looks awesome. I also think the graphics looked better in 09 than in 10.

The pace of Live 09 looks better as well.

phpBB [video]


After looking at this game play, you couldn't tell me I didn't clean up the game play in 09 with by adjusting the player ratings

phpBB [video]


Looks awesome, I love the pace. It looks like real basketball pace in my opinion. That camera view is great.

After watching that, Live 18s pace looks slow. I much prefer that Live 09 pace.
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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:37 am

I've spent a bunch of time playing NBA Live 10 recently, and wow... it's actually such a good game. The dribbling is the best in the series, they even have sizeups that you can break out of (I was surprised because the game was released 8 years ago).

The more I play it, the more I am bummed though. All of that time wasted on trying to reinvent themselves instead of working off of that solid foundation. Even shots on the move look and feel much better than 18.

Live 07 is the worst game I have ever played (XBOX 360)... Live 06 and 07 were such a horrible start to last gen for EA NBA.
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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby Andrew on Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:38 pm

Agreed. It's a shame, because NBA Live 06 PC is one of their last really solid all-around releases. It's kind of overlooked and underrated, because of the 360 version of 06.
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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby Murat on Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:33 am

I was like if these guys rename it as Elite, then it needs to be an Elite game. It really put up the expectations, however the demo was a huge mess. Also the success of NBA 2K11 made the failure of Elite more embarassing.

I would like to put this video there too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJwXBw86g30
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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby Andrew on Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:15 pm

I will say that I never encountered the Bynum glitch myself in the demo. It wasn't a good look for the game, but other games have demonstrated similar glitches when loading characters into the environment.
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Re: So I spent some time looking back at the NBA Elite 11 section....

Postby [Q] on Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:59 pm

I had played it many times as well and never encountered the Bynum glitch either
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