Demo Impressions Thread

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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby mp3 on Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:52 am

I've had little chance to play the demo so far but I wasn't to happy about being dragged straight into a story driven cutscreens with having to watch SAS for that long then finding out I had to start the start the story based game just so I can play the Cavs/Warriors game..

Quick question tho, how do I get my face from the app into the game? Ive just started playing the game at Rucker so is there an option to add it after that?
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby [Q] on Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:29 am

Yeah in the menu, on the right side you can change your appearance
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Andrew on Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:54 am

You've also got to make sure that your EA Account is linked to your PSN account.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby mp3 on Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:14 am

I saw the option for scanning your face but clicking on it just took me to a screen that said to download the app :-/
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby [Q] on Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:46 am

Yeah so download your app, then on the app sign into your EA account that's linked to your PSN account, then it will show up in game
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:51 am

Last night I played a few more hours of the demo, after I played 2K17 for a couple hours, and even went back and played some 2K14 for X1. I have to tell you, I just can't get over the choppy, robotic animations, or lack of response with the controllers. You guys always ask for more specifics, so here are the issues (I may make a video of this, even though its so obvious). Most of the time, you can't even catch and shoot with a guy immediately, he does a strange/slow/robotic gather animation (that sometimes lasts so long that the defender gets there even after being 5-10 ft away). You cant just move into a spot and shoot on the move (like players do all the time in real life), if it's a sideaway, it looks and feels like something from Live 2001, if you are moving into a spot and try to shoot a straight up jumper, the gather animation is so unnatural that the defender easily gets there (100% of the time), and the shot feels slow and unnatural. Same with catches/making passes... a player will catch a pass, and it will take them so long to get the body adjusted (And to transition to the next robotic shooting animation) that the defender easily gets back. Making passes are completely hit or miss, as in if your player isn't already facing the direction of the intended recipient, he will do this long passing animation (sometimes wind-up?) that ruins the flow of the game.

Small dribbles hurt the flow of explosiveness with the good ball handlers (they are good to have in the game, but the game lacks actual explosive moves like the players have in real life). I want to go wide with a cross over, or create actual space with a step back (and actually shoot a smooth shot off of it). Explosive first steps don't exist either.

The post game has improved, but so many flicks at the hoop (high arcing flicks), look really unnatural. The ball also resembles a beach ball going through the air sometimes, and the rim mechanics are way out of whack. I've shot so many soft shots (where the ball is sailing through the air with no spin) only to clank hard off the rim or take strange, hard unnatural bounces.

2 years working on the game, and it bothers me that these things weren't addressed. I know its a demo, but we are a month from release, I doubt these things will be fixed. As Andrew stated above, even the animation speeds in general seem really out of place sometimes, they don't look natural.

Also, I went back and played Live 16 as well, and the players models have also gotten worse, while at the same time, cyberfaces havnt improved (Kyrie looks horrible).

Just a tad frustrated...
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby ThaLiveKing on Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:49 am

Dee4Three wrote:Last night I played a few more hours of the demo, after I played 2K17 for a couple hours, and even went back and played some 2K14 for X1. I have to tell you, I just can't get over the choppy, robotic animations, or lack of response with the controllers. You guys always ask for more specifics, so here are the issues (I may make a video of this, even though its so obvious). Most of the time, you can't even catch and shoot with a guy immediately, he does a strange/slow/robotic gather animation (that sometimes lasts so long that the defender gets there even after being 5-10 ft away). You cant just move into a spot and shoot on the move (like players do all the time in real life), if it's a sideaway, it looks and feels like something from Live 2001, if you are moving into a spot and try to shoot a straight up jumper, the gather animation is so unnatural that the defender easily gets there (100% of the time), and the shot feels slow and unnatural. Same with catches/making passes... a player will catch a pass, and it will take them so long to get the body adjusted (And to transition to the next robotic shooting animation) that the defender easily gets back. Making passes are completely hit or miss, as in if your player isn't already facing the direction of the intended recipient, he will do this long passing animation (sometimes wind-up?) that ruins the flow of the game.

Small dribbles hurt the flow of explosiveness with the good ball handlers (they are good to have in the game, but the game lacks actual explosive moves like the players have in real life). I want to go wide with a cross over, or create actual space with a step back (and actually shoot a smooth shot off of it). Explosive first steps don't exist either.

The post game has improved, but so many flicks at the hoop (high arcing flicks), look really unnatural. The ball also resembles a beach ball going through the air sometimes, and the rim mechanics are way out of whack. I've shot so many soft shots (where the ball is sailing through the air with no spin) only to clank hard off the rim or take strange, hard unnatural bounces.

2 years working on the game, and it bothers me that these things weren't addressed. I know its a demo, but we are a month from release, I doubt these things will be fixed. As Andrew stated above, even the animation speeds in general seem really out of place sometimes, they don't look natural.

Also, I went back and played Live 16 as well, and the players models have also gotten worse, while at the same time, cyberfaces havnt improved (Kyrie looks horrible).

Just a tad frustrated...


It took me two days to get used to the new dribble system, I haven't got used to the post game yet. You can't go back and forth between games, you have to sit there and play through all your mistakes and you'll figure it out. The game is rhythm based so you have to really pay attention to what each person is doing before you counter, that's how in most cases the game will feel organic. Over time, you will get how the game is supposed to be played. There's some player movement issues that I don't like, I'm going to try to make a video about it soon, but I thought overall the game play was fine. I've been telling people since EA PLAY that it's going to be an adjustment, and seeing a lot of responses, you can see that it is.

About the comment in bold, this is one issue I have with the dribbling, you can't really get space, unless you trigger the animation based on the defensive player's position to gain separation. I hope it's addressed once the game is launched at some point.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:42 am

ThaLiveKing wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:Last night I played a few more hours of the demo, after I played 2K17 for a couple hours, and even went back and played some 2K14 for X1. I have to tell you, I just can't get over the choppy, robotic animations, or lack of response with the controllers. You guys always ask for more specifics, so here are the issues (I may make a video of this, even though its so obvious). Most of the time, you can't even catch and shoot with a guy immediately, he does a strange/slow/robotic gather animation (that sometimes lasts so long that the defender gets there even after being 5-10 ft away). You cant just move into a spot and shoot on the move (like players do all the time in real life), if it's a sideaway, it looks and feels like something from Live 2001, if you are moving into a spot and try to shoot a straight up jumper, the gather animation is so unnatural that the defender easily gets there (100% of the time), and the shot feels slow and unnatural. Same with catches/making passes... a player will catch a pass, and it will take them so long to get the body adjusted (And to transition to the next robotic shooting animation) that the defender easily gets back. Making passes are completely hit or miss, as in if your player isn't already facing the direction of the intended recipient, he will do this long passing animation (sometimes wind-up?) that ruins the flow of the game.

Small dribbles hurt the flow of explosiveness with the good ball handlers (they are good to have in the game, but the game lacks actual explosive moves like the players have in real life). I want to go wide with a cross over, or create actual space with a step back (and actually shoot a smooth shot off of it). Explosive first steps don't exist either.

The post game has improved, but so many flicks at the hoop (high arcing flicks), look really unnatural. The ball also resembles a beach ball going through the air sometimes, and the rim mechanics are way out of whack. I've shot so many soft shots (where the ball is sailing through the air with no spin) only to clank hard off the rim or take strange, hard unnatural bounces.

2 years working on the game, and it bothers me that these things weren't addressed. I know its a demo, but we are a month from release, I doubt these things will be fixed. As Andrew stated above, even the animation speeds in general seem really out of place sometimes, they don't look natural.

Also, I went back and played Live 16 as well, and the players models have also gotten worse, while at the same time, cyberfaces havnt improved (Kyrie looks horrible).

Just a tad frustrated...


It took me two days to get used to the new dribble system, I haven't got used to the post game yet. You can't go back and forth between games, you have to sit there and play through all your mistakes and you'll figure it out. The game is rhythm based so you have to really pay attention to what each person is doing before you counter, that's how in most cases the game will feel organic. Over time, you will get how the game is supposed to be played. There's some player movement issues that I don't like, I'm going to try to make a video about it soon, but I thought overall the game play was fine. I've been telling people since EA PLAY that it's going to be an adjustment, and seeing a lot of responses, you can see that it is.

About the comment in bold, this is one issue I have with the dribbling, you can't really get space, unless you trigger the animation based on the defensive player's position to gain separation. I hope it's addressed once the game is launched at some point.


This is going to be said with all due respect, because I do respect you and like the way you carry yourself.

This has nothing to do with me not being used to the game, I also played it for another 4 hours today. I have a great grasp on the dribbling (which you can see even in my video), I have a great feel for shot releases (timing, etc), I have a feel for the game. Everything you said has nothing to do with the not being able to come to a sudden stop and shoot a smooth jumper, or robotic sideaways or the passing system. No matter how good someone has a feel for the game, it does nothing to combat those glaring game issues. I can know how to get by someone, or do a step back, but when you can't stop on a dime to pull up because the animation transitions are so broken, it means nothing. The glaring animation problems with the game still persist. No matter how used to the game you are, it changes nothing about the beach ball physics, the ball floating softly through the air but clanking off the rim hard like it was a TMAC line drive.

It changes none of that. Again, it's with all due respect that I disagree with you. I respect your work and opinions.

Jumping back and forth between games absolutely is relevant, becuase it's all about feel. It's the same sport, we absolutely compare everything in life. The physics of the game (animation transitions, etc) are very similar to that of 2K9 (which I still own). But they even fall short in feel to that game in many ways.

I'm hoping they can fix some of these things before release, I'll probably be buying the game anyway for Ultimate Team. 2 years working on the game, and I can't even step in and take a smooth jumper? I'm not impressed.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby [Q] on Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:27 pm

So I picked it up again after not playing it yesterday and there was a lot less lag today, probably because there's a hell of a lot less players on today.

It was a lot more playable, as I nailed a couple 3s that I wouldn't have hit on Friday and managed to get a block. Staying in front of guys is still tough but was easier today.also, playing with pdub on Friday he had mentioned the game "was playing for him" which I didn't understand. There was a bit of lag so I couldn't tell but today I noticed it quite a bit. Your guy would go up for a rebound with no input, stop at the 3 point line when going up the court, and would generally redirect your guy when moving in the frontcourt. Honestly I got a rebound like that so didn't mind it that one time but it's annoying that you're not in full control like they try to advertise. One place it actually does help is in the corner it helps keep you inbounds

All in all, I think I enjoy the street part of the game enough to pre-order for the discount. It's pretty much the same as live 16's online game but with a few added bells and whistles so I'll bite on it.

Plus, I figure they'll take feedback and improve the game throughout the year.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby kingpnp on Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:25 am

Dee4Three wrote:
ThaLiveKing wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:Last night I played a few more hours of the demo, after I played 2K17 for a couple hours, and even went back and played some 2K14 for X1. I have to tell you, I just can't get over the choppy, robotic animations, or lack of response with the controllers. You guys always ask for more specifics, so here are the issues (I may make a video of this, even though its so obvious). Most of the time, you can't even catch and shoot with a guy immediately, he does a strange/slow/robotic gather animation (that sometimes lasts so long that the defender gets there even after being 5-10 ft away). You cant just move into a spot and shoot on the move (like players do all the time in real life), if it's a sideaway, it looks and feels like something from Live 2001, if you are moving into a spot and try to shoot a straight up jumper, the gather animation is so unnatural that the defender easily gets there (100% of the time), and the shot feels slow and unnatural. Same with catches/making passes... a player will catch a pass, and it will take them so long to get the body adjusted (And to transition to the next robotic shooting animation) that the defender easily gets back. Making passes are completely hit or miss, as in if your player isn't already facing the direction of the intended recipient, he will do this long passing animation (sometimes wind-up?) that ruins the flow of the game.

Small dribbles hurt the flow of explosiveness with the good ball handlers (they are good to have in the game, but the game lacks actual explosive moves like the players have in real life). I want to go wide with a cross over, or create actual space with a step back (and actually shoot a smooth shot off of it). Explosive first steps don't exist either.

The post game has improved, but so many flicks at the hoop (high arcing flicks), look really unnatural. The ball also resembles a beach ball going through the air sometimes, and the rim mechanics are way out of whack. I've shot so many soft shots (where the ball is sailing through the air with no spin) only to clank hard off the rim or take strange, hard unnatural bounces.

2 years working on the game, and it bothers me that these things weren't addressed. I know its a demo, but we are a month from release, I doubt these things will be fixed. As Andrew stated above, even the animation speeds in general seem really out of place sometimes, they don't look natural.

Also, I went back and played Live 16 as well, and the players models have also gotten worse, while at the same time, cyberfaces havnt improved (Kyrie looks horrible).

Just a tad frustrated...


It took me two days to get used to the new dribble system, I haven't got used to the post game yet. You can't go back and forth between games, you have to sit there and play through all your mistakes and you'll figure it out. The game is rhythm based so you have to really pay attention to what each person is doing before you counter, that's how in most cases the game will feel organic. Over time, you will get how the game is supposed to be played. There's some player movement issues that I don't like, I'm going to try to make a video about it soon, but I thought overall the game play was fine. I've been telling people since EA PLAY that it's going to be an adjustment, and seeing a lot of responses, you can see that it is.

About the comment in bold, this is one issue I have with the dribbling, you can't really get space, unless you trigger the animation based on the defensive player's position to gain separation. I hope it's addressed once the game is launched at some point.


This is going to be said with all due respect, because I do respect you and like the way you carry yourself.

This has nothing to do with me not being used to the game, I also played it for another 4 hours today. I have a great grasp on the dribbling (which you can see even in my video), I have a great feel for shot releases (timing, etc), I have a feel for the game. Everything you said has nothing to do with the not being able to come to a sudden stop and shoot a smooth jumper, or robotic sideaways or the passing system. No matter how good someone has a feel for the game, it does nothing to combat those glaring game issues. I can know how to get by someone, or do a step back, but when you can't stop on a dime to pull up because the animation transitions are so broken, it means nothing. The glaring animation problems with the game still persist. No matter how used to the game you are, it changes nothing about the beach ball physics, the ball floating softly through the air but clanking off the rim hard like it was a TMAC line drive.

It changes none of that. Again, it's with all due respect that I disagree with you. I respect your work and opinions.

Jumping back and forth between games absolutely is relevant, becuase it's all about feel. It's the same sport, we absolutely compare everything in life. The physics of the game (animation transitions, etc) are very similar to that of 2K9 (which I still own). But they even fall short in feel to that game in many ways.

I'm hoping they can fix some of these things before release, I'll probably be buying the game anyway for Ultimate Team. 2 years working on the game, and I can't even step in and take a smooth jumper? I'm not impressed.


when you talk about beach ball physics. I hear you but i may need to see some footage of what you're talking about. Especially if you're going back to 2k and then back to live. I know for a fact you can't be too upset about basketball physics when we all know 2k doesnt really have any actual basketball physics. How many of those camel hump shots have we've seen? You know the ones, where you shoot, the ball then starts to come off its arc, then goes back up again mid air. then goes in. or the times when you shoot the ball from the side and you're 8 feet away from the basket. yet the basketball hits the rim bounces super high then goes backwards over the backboard out of bounds. or the layups when the ball is completely inside the rim going down then it miraculously comes out of the rim to fall off for the blown layup. Now just because 2k's basketball physics sucks. doesnt mean live's doesnt suck too. I get that. I just need to see what you're talking about in video form.

On to you switching back and forth to soon. The other poster you responded was actually correct. The problem you're going to have with switching like that is that you will not get use to the controls, and the rhythm of the nba live(new) game. you just wont. because you have years and years and years of 2k under your belt. Whether you love it, like it a little, or hate 2k. if you're like the rest of us you have had no real legit other choice for a long time. so you get use to how it plays, even use to the things you didnt like. Like...the dribbling. Not sure If I've mentioned this on this forum before. But it took me a while to finally realize the difference in dribbling from a nba live game and a 2k game. I couldnt figure out what to call the difference. nba 2k's dribbling is for viewing purposes more so for actually breaking a persons ankles and getting space to score. The badges are their to break ankles and to create space. Those are the things that make sure those animations kick in, even when they shouldnt.

nba 2k's dribbling = Mortal Kombat fighting game combo moves. down, back + X = sub zeros ice hammer. the same type of thing with 2k's dribbling. you plug in the buttons FIRST> then you see the chained moves 2nd. and yes its noticeable thats its not 1 to 1 or even close to one to 1. meaning when you press the buttons you are not doing the moves yet. you are starting the first move and the rest plays out later after the other button pushes have ended then the rest of the sequence kicks in.

Nba live dribbling = close to 1 to 1. two hit someone with a spin move one way then a spin the other. I swing the stick one way, and swing it back the moment i see my foot planting after the first spin. I dont do it before it happens in hopes the animation sequence will kick in like a combo move. This means I can be more exact with my move and based it on instinct once I know how to pull off the dribble moves.

in 2k. i have to think ahead and already have a mix of combo moves I want to do before the defender even plays defense on me. you can do that in real life. but the problem with not playing on instinct and taking what the defense gives you. means if the defender doesnt fall for that original combo. you are toast and you have no way to counter since you have to wait til the sequence is over before you can make the next move.

In your video. I saw you make 2 baseline spin moves that were appropriate. but that was also a one move control. Where you didnt have to chain anything together to get by your opponent. you didnt need to set him up one way to go the other or fake him,etc. you had 2 other nice dribble moves, the shamgod, and one other which was less of a dribble move and more of a layup animation with the euro step.

The other moves you use to get by your opponent were not the best moves in real life to get open to score. you actually ran into traffic on a few of those moves. some you should've spun off the guy the other way. others you should've shook right and gone left. but instead you choose to keep going the way you were going and because Kyrie is quicker than his man defending him. he could get his shoulder slightly passed them anyway.

^^That is a product of you not totally know how to use the dribbling and/or you not knowing how to use the dribbling based on instinct. something 2k can't really do YET.(we dont know about 18). This is why you need to stay playing that live demo then come back with another review. not after a few days. but give it a week. and dont play 2k either. The same way you had to tunnel thru all the 2k crap you dont like just like the rest of us and figure it out to start liking the game even thru its warts. is the exact same thing you have to with this game. if you do that, and you STILL aint feeling it. then so be it.

If you keep going back to 2k, you will keep telling yourself "this aint realistic. I dont like the feel to this live game." when in reality you truly are saying this doesnt feel like the only basketball game i've played for years in 2k so it must not be right. I can't make those exact same moves in live that i can make in 2k. The reason I'm making this suggestion is because you're not the only person I've heard say these things. I have friends who play 2k and played the live demo with the same quick complaints. When in reality you can tell a lot of their issues have more to do with it not playing just like 2k.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:41 am

kingpnp wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
ThaLiveKing wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:Last night I played a few more hours of the demo, after I played 2K17 for a couple hours, and even went back and played some 2K14 for X1. I have to tell you, I just can't get over the choppy, robotic animations, or lack of response with the controllers. You guys always ask for more specifics, so here are the issues (I may make a video of this, even though its so obvious). Most of the time, you can't even catch and shoot with a guy immediately, he does a strange/slow/robotic gather animation (that sometimes lasts so long that the defender gets there even after being 5-10 ft away). You cant just move into a spot and shoot on the move (like players do all the time in real life), if it's a sideaway, it looks and feels like something from Live 2001, if you are moving into a spot and try to shoot a straight up jumper, the gather animation is so unnatural that the defender easily gets there (100% of the time), and the shot feels slow and unnatural. Same with catches/making passes... a player will catch a pass, and it will take them so long to get the body adjusted (And to transition to the next robotic shooting animation) that the defender easily gets back. Making passes are completely hit or miss, as in if your player isn't already facing the direction of the intended recipient, he will do this long passing animation (sometimes wind-up?) that ruins the flow of the game.

Small dribbles hurt the flow of explosiveness with the good ball handlers (they are good to have in the game, but the game lacks actual explosive moves like the players have in real life). I want to go wide with a cross over, or create actual space with a step back (and actually shoot a smooth shot off of it). Explosive first steps don't exist either.

The post game has improved, but so many flicks at the hoop (high arcing flicks), look really unnatural. The ball also resembles a beach ball going through the air sometimes, and the rim mechanics are way out of whack. I've shot so many soft shots (where the ball is sailing through the air with no spin) only to clank hard off the rim or take strange, hard unnatural bounces.

2 years working on the game, and it bothers me that these things weren't addressed. I know its a demo, but we are a month from release, I doubt these things will be fixed. As Andrew stated above, even the animation speeds in general seem really out of place sometimes, they don't look natural.

Also, I went back and played Live 16 as well, and the players models have also gotten worse, while at the same time, cyberfaces havnt improved (Kyrie looks horrible).

Just a tad frustrated...


It took me two days to get used to the new dribble system, I haven't got used to the post game yet. You can't go back and forth between games, you have to sit there and play through all your mistakes and you'll figure it out. The game is rhythm based so you have to really pay attention to what each person is doing before you counter, that's how in most cases the game will feel organic. Over time, you will get how the game is supposed to be played. There's some player movement issues that I don't like, I'm going to try to make a video about it soon, but I thought overall the game play was fine. I've been telling people since EA PLAY that it's going to be an adjustment, and seeing a lot of responses, you can see that it is.

About the comment in bold, this is one issue I have with the dribbling, you can't really get space, unless you trigger the animation based on the defensive player's position to gain separation. I hope it's addressed once the game is launched at some point.


This is going to be said with all due respect, because I do respect you and like the way you carry yourself.

This has nothing to do with me not being used to the game, I also played it for another 4 hours today. I have a great grasp on the dribbling (which you can see even in my video), I have a great feel for shot releases (timing, etc), I have a feel for the game. Everything you said has nothing to do with the not being able to come to a sudden stop and shoot a smooth jumper, or robotic sideaways or the passing system. No matter how good someone has a feel for the game, it does nothing to combat those glaring game issues. I can know how to get by someone, or do a step back, but when you can't stop on a dime to pull up because the animation transitions are so broken, it means nothing. The glaring animation problems with the game still persist. No matter how used to the game you are, it changes nothing about the beach ball physics, the ball floating softly through the air but clanking off the rim hard like it was a TMAC line drive.

It changes none of that. Again, it's with all due respect that I disagree with you. I respect your work and opinions.

Jumping back and forth between games absolutely is relevant, becuase it's all about feel. It's the same sport, we absolutely compare everything in life. The physics of the game (animation transitions, etc) are very similar to that of 2K9 (which I still own). But they even fall short in feel to that game in many ways.

I'm hoping they can fix some of these things before release, I'll probably be buying the game anyway for Ultimate Team. 2 years working on the game, and I can't even step in and take a smooth jumper? I'm not impressed.


when you talk about beach ball physics. I hear you but i may need to see some footage of what you're talking about. Especially if you're going back to 2k and then back to live. I know for a fact you can't be too upset about basketball physics when we all know 2k doesnt really have any actual basketball physics. How many of those camel hump shots have we've seen? You know the ones, where you shoot, the ball then starts to come off its arc, then goes back up again mid air. then goes in. or the times when you shoot the ball from the side and you're 8 feet away from the basket. yet the basketball hits the rim bounces super high then goes backwards over the backboard out of bounds. or the layups when the ball is completely inside the rim going down then it miraculously comes out of the rim to fall off for the blown layup. Now just because 2k's basketball physics sucks. doesnt mean live's doesnt suck too. I get that. I just need to see what you're talking about in video form.

On to you switching back and forth to soon. The other poster you responded was actually correct. The problem you're going to have with switching like that is that you will not get use to the controls, and the rhythm of the nba live(new) game. you just wont. because you have years and years and years of 2k under your belt. Whether you love it, like it a little, or hate 2k. if you're like the rest of us you have had no real legit other choice for a long time. so you get use to how it plays, even use to the things you didnt like. Like...the dribbling. Not sure If I've mentioned this on this forum before. But it took me a while to finally realize the difference in dribbling from a nba live game and a 2k game. I couldnt figure out what to call the difference. nba 2k's dribbling is for viewing purposes more so for actually breaking a persons ankles and getting space to score. The badges are their to break ankles and to create space. Those are the things that make sure those animations kick in, even when they shouldnt.

nba 2k's dribbling = Mortal Kombat fighting game combo moves. down, back + X = sub zeros ice hammer. the same type of thing with 2k's dribbling. you plug in the buttons FIRST> then you see the chained moves 2nd. and yes its noticeable thats its not 1 to 1 or even close to one to 1. meaning when you press the buttons you are not doing the moves yet. you are starting the first move and the rest plays out later after the other button pushes have ended then the rest of the sequence kicks in.

Nba live dribbling = close to 1 to 1. two hit someone with a spin move one way then a spin the other. I swing the stick one way, and swing it back the moment i see my foot planting after the first spin. I dont do it before it happens in hopes the animation sequence will kick in like a combo move. This means I can be more exact with my move and based it on instinct once I know how to pull off the dribble moves.

in 2k. i have to think ahead and already have a mix of combo moves I want to do before the defender even plays defense on me. you can do that in real life. but the problem with not playing on instinct and taking what the defense gives you. means if the defender doesnt fall for that original combo. you are toast and you have no way to counter since you have to wait til the sequence is over before you can make the next move.

In your video. I saw you make 2 baseline spin moves that were appropriate. but that was also a one move control. Where you didnt have to chain anything together to get by your opponent. you didnt need to set him up one way to go the other or fake him,etc. you had 2 other nice dribble moves, the shamgod, and one other which was less of a dribble move and more of a layup animation with the euro step.

The other moves you use to get by your opponent were not the best moves in real life to get open to score. you actually ran into traffic on a few of those moves. some you should've spun off the guy the other way. others you should've shook right and gone left. but instead you choose to keep going the way you were going and because Kyrie is quicker than his man defending him. he could get his shoulder slightly passed them anyway.

^^That is a product of you not totally know how to use the dribbling and/or you not knowing how to use the dribbling based on instinct. something 2k can't really do YET.(we dont know about 18). This is why you need to stay playing that live demo then come back with another review. not after a few days. but give it a week. and dont play 2k either. The same way you had to tunnel thru all the 2k crap you dont like just like the rest of us and figure it out to start liking the game even thru its warts. is the exact same thing you have to with this game. if you do that, and you STILL aint feeling it. then so be it.

If you keep going back to 2k, you will keep telling yourself "this aint realistic. I dont like the feel to this live game." when in reality you truly are saying this doesnt feel like the only basketball game i've played for years in 2k so it must not be right. I can't make those exact same moves in live that i can make in 2k. The reason I'm making this suggestion is because you're not the only person I've heard say these things. I have friends who play 2k and played the live demo with the same quick complaints. When in reality you can tell a lot of their issues have more to do with it not playing just like 2k.


With all due respect, I disagree with this as well, and you didn't address my biggest complaints of choppy, robotic animation transitions that destroy the flow and feel of the game. That is apparent even when playing your first minute.

Second, the dribbling video had crossover into spin, into joystick to the baseline for a reverse layup, it had a euro step, it had the spin baseline, it had the in and out. I have done more than that over the last few days, I know how to string combos, there are a lot of dribble moves that can be done, that was just an example. You telling me that I can't tell by a few days, but saying you can, is kind of an an insult to me stating I can't pick it up as fast. Which is completely false, that video was posted after playing it on night one, I have played the demo for well over 10 hours now. I understand the dribbling controls 100%, and I have the same complaints about small dribbles and explosiveness (Which ThaLiveKing agreed on). I owned Live 14, 15 and 16. Just because I don't play it as much, doesn't mean I havn't been following along and playing each game in the series, I have given it plenty of time. I will also be buying Live 18, and will be jumping into Ultimate Team. I'm not sure if you have checked out my 2K videos, but I have a good grasp on the sticks in general, and I have a good feel for basketball and how it should be played.

If you can't see the beach ball physics, the unrealistic clanks off the rim all the time, how the ball doesn't react how it should, I seriously question how much you have played the game. It's really obvious. My two brothers were playing with me yesterday (we were switching off), and they brought it up without me saying anything, and it was brought up right away in the first quarter. 2K has it's issues, TRUST ME, I had a thread that had over 150 comments on it related to all the issues I had with 2K. This isn't being a 2k fanboy, it's being realistic about each games individual issues, and the feel of each game. I absolutely have the ability to go from game to game, in fact, I can go from 2k to Live and be fine dribbling in both. Not everybody has the same skill level with these games, not everybody has to ONLY play one game, or focus on just one game, to get used to it. You are lumping everybody in together with that statement, that's false. 2K had major issues (especially after the patches) with players feeling like they were stuck in mud, slow passes, slow lateral movement, body steals/body blocks, forced animations, charging fouls, tendencies and ratings issues, etc. 2K was far from perfect, but it still flowed better.

Again, I will be buying Live 18, just like the past Lives. But you guys are crazy if you ignore those animation issues, they are glaring and very obvious. EA and Live need that feedback, we should be shouting that from the rooftops (like I did with 2K issues) in order to try and get them addressed. I stand by everything I stated above. To imply that "I will keep telling myself" something, means that I can't distinguish the two games, that I am not mentally capable of separating the two games because I have a biased to 2K, or that I am more used to it so that's the right way. That's not only an insult, that's completely wrong. I could not even touch 2K, and still have the same gripes about Live, the stuff I am mentioning is so obvious even on the first playthrough.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby kingpnp on Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:33 am

Dee4Three wrote:
kingpnp wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
ThaLiveKing wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:Last night I played a few more hours of the demo, after I played 2K17 for a couple hours, and even went back and played some 2K14 for X1. I have to tell you, I just can't get over the choppy, robotic animations, or lack of response with the controllers. You guys always ask for more specifics, so here are the issues (I may make a video of this, even though its so obvious). Most of the time, you can't even catch and shoot with a guy immediately, he does a strange/slow/robotic gather animation (that sometimes lasts so long that the defender gets there even after being 5-10 ft away). You cant just move into a spot and shoot on the move (like players do all the time in real life), if it's a sideaway, it looks and feels like something from Live 2001, if you are moving into a spot and try to shoot a straight up jumper, the gather animation is so unnatural that the defender easily gets there (100% of the time), and the shot feels slow and unnatural. Same with catches/making passes... a player will catch a pass, and it will take them so long to get the body adjusted (And to transition to the next robotic shooting animation) that the defender easily gets back. Making passes are completely hit or miss, as in if your player isn't already facing the direction of the intended recipient, he will do this long passing animation (sometimes wind-up?) that ruins the flow of the game.

Small dribbles hurt the flow of explosiveness with the good ball handlers (they are good to have in the game, but the game lacks actual explosive moves like the players have in real life). I want to go wide with a cross over, or create actual space with a step back (and actually shoot a smooth shot off of it). Explosive first steps don't exist either.

The post game has improved, but so many flicks at the hoop (high arcing flicks), look really unnatural. The ball also resembles a beach ball going through the air sometimes, and the rim mechanics are way out of whack. I've shot so many soft shots (where the ball is sailing through the air with no spin) only to clank hard off the rim or take strange, hard unnatural bounces.

2 years working on the game, and it bothers me that these things weren't addressed. I know its a demo, but we are a month from release, I doubt these things will be fixed. As Andrew stated above, even the animation speeds in general seem really out of place sometimes, they don't look natural.

Also, I went back and played Live 16 as well, and the players models have also gotten worse, while at the same time, cyberfaces havnt improved (Kyrie looks horrible).

Just a tad frustrated...


It took me two days to get used to the new dribble system, I haven't got used to the post game yet. You can't go back and forth between games, you have to sit there and play through all your mistakes and you'll figure it out. The game is rhythm based so you have to really pay attention to what each person is doing before you counter, that's how in most cases the game will feel organic. Over time, you will get how the game is supposed to be played. There's some player movement issues that I don't like, I'm going to try to make a video about it soon, but I thought overall the game play was fine. I've been telling people since EA PLAY that it's going to be an adjustment, and seeing a lot of responses, you can see that it is.

About the comment in bold, this is one issue I have with the dribbling, you can't really get space, unless you trigger the animation based on the defensive player's position to gain separation. I hope it's addressed once the game is launched at some point.


This is going to be said with all due respect, because I do respect you and like the way you carry yourself.

This has nothing to do with me not being used to the game, I also played it for another 4 hours today. I have a great grasp on the dribbling (which you can see even in my video), I have a great feel for shot releases (timing, etc), I have a feel for the game. Everything you said has nothing to do with the not being able to come to a sudden stop and shoot a smooth jumper, or robotic sideaways or the passing system. No matter how good someone has a feel for the game, it does nothing to combat those glaring game issues. I can know how to get by someone, or do a step back, but when you can't stop on a dime to pull up because the animation transitions are so broken, it means nothing. The glaring animation problems with the game still persist. No matter how used to the game you are, it changes nothing about the beach ball physics, the ball floating softly through the air but clanking off the rim hard like it was a TMAC line drive.

It changes none of that. Again, it's with all due respect that I disagree with you. I respect your work and opinions.

Jumping back and forth between games absolutely is relevant, becuase it's all about feel. It's the same sport, we absolutely compare everything in life. The physics of the game (animation transitions, etc) are very similar to that of 2K9 (which I still own). But they even fall short in feel to that game in many ways.

I'm hoping they can fix some of these things before release, I'll probably be buying the game anyway for Ultimate Team. 2 years working on the game, and I can't even step in and take a smooth jumper? I'm not impressed.


when you talk about beach ball physics. I hear you but i may need to see some footage of what you're talking about. Especially if you're going back to 2k and then back to live. I know for a fact you can't be too upset about basketball physics when we all know 2k doesnt really have any actual basketball physics. How many of those camel hump shots have we've seen? You know the ones, where you shoot, the ball then starts to come off its arc, then goes back up again mid air. then goes in. or the times when you shoot the ball from the side and you're 8 feet away from the basket. yet the basketball hits the rim bounces super high then goes backwards over the backboard out of bounds. or the layups when the ball is completely inside the rim going down then it miraculously comes out of the rim to fall off for the blown layup. Now just because 2k's basketball physics sucks. doesnt mean live's doesnt suck too. I get that. I just need to see what you're talking about in video form.

On to you switching back and forth to soon. The other poster you responded was actually correct. The problem you're going to have with switching like that is that you will not get use to the controls, and the rhythm of the nba live(new) game. you just wont. because you have years and years and years of 2k under your belt. Whether you love it, like it a little, or hate 2k. if you're like the rest of us you have had no real legit other choice for a long time. so you get use to how it plays, even use to the things you didnt like. Like...the dribbling. Not sure If I've mentioned this on this forum before. But it took me a while to finally realize the difference in dribbling from a nba live game and a 2k game. I couldnt figure out what to call the difference. nba 2k's dribbling is for viewing purposes more so for actually breaking a persons ankles and getting space to score. The badges are their to break ankles and to create space. Those are the things that make sure those animations kick in, even when they shouldnt.

nba 2k's dribbling = Mortal Kombat fighting game combo moves. down, back + X = sub zeros ice hammer. the same type of thing with 2k's dribbling. you plug in the buttons FIRST> then you see the chained moves 2nd. and yes its noticeable thats its not 1 to 1 or even close to one to 1. meaning when you press the buttons you are not doing the moves yet. you are starting the first move and the rest plays out later after the other button pushes have ended then the rest of the sequence kicks in.

Nba live dribbling = close to 1 to 1. two hit someone with a spin move one way then a spin the other. I swing the stick one way, and swing it back the moment i see my foot planting after the first spin. I dont do it before it happens in hopes the animation sequence will kick in like a combo move. This means I can be more exact with my move and based it on instinct once I know how to pull off the dribble moves.

in 2k. i have to think ahead and already have a mix of combo moves I want to do before the defender even plays defense on me. you can do that in real life. but the problem with not playing on instinct and taking what the defense gives you. means if the defender doesnt fall for that original combo. you are toast and you have no way to counter since you have to wait til the sequence is over before you can make the next move.

In your video. I saw you make 2 baseline spin moves that were appropriate. but that was also a one move control. Where you didnt have to chain anything together to get by your opponent. you didnt need to set him up one way to go the other or fake him,etc. you had 2 other nice dribble moves, the shamgod, and one other which was less of a dribble move and more of a layup animation with the euro step.

The other moves you use to get by your opponent were not the best moves in real life to get open to score. you actually ran into traffic on a few of those moves. some you should've spun off the guy the other way. others you should've shook right and gone left. but instead you choose to keep going the way you were going and because Kyrie is quicker than his man defending him. he could get his shoulder slightly passed them anyway.

^^That is a product of you not totally know how to use the dribbling and/or you not knowing how to use the dribbling based on instinct. something 2k can't really do YET.(we dont know about 18). This is why you need to stay playing that live demo then come back with another review. not after a few days. but give it a week. and dont play 2k either. The same way you had to tunnel thru all the 2k crap you dont like just like the rest of us and figure it out to start liking the game even thru its warts. is the exact same thing you have to with this game. if you do that, and you STILL aint feeling it. then so be it.

If you keep going back to 2k, you will keep telling yourself "this aint realistic. I dont like the feel to this live game." when in reality you truly are saying this doesnt feel like the only basketball game i've played for years in 2k so it must not be right. I can't make those exact same moves in live that i can make in 2k. The reason I'm making this suggestion is because you're not the only person I've heard say these things. I have friends who play 2k and played the live demo with the same quick complaints. When in reality you can tell a lot of their issues have more to do with it not playing just like 2k.


With all due respect, I disagree with this as well, and you didn't address my biggest complaints of choppy, robotic animation transitions that destroy the flow and feel of the game. That is apparent even when playing your first minute.

Second, the dribbling video had crossover into spin, into joystick to the baseline for a reverse layup, it had a euro step, it had the spin baseline, it had the in and out. I have done more than that over the last few days, I know how to string combos, there are a lot of dribble moves that can be done, that was just an example. You telling me that I can't tell by a few days, but saying you can, is kind of an an insult to me stating I can't pick it up as fast. Which is completely false, that video was posted after playing it on night one, I have played the demo for well over 10 hours now. I understand the dribbling controls 100%, and I have the same complaints about small dribbles and explosiveness (Which ThaLiveKing agreed on). I owned Live 14, 15 and 16. Just because I don't play it as much, doesn't mean I havn't been following along and playing each game in the series, I have given it plenty of time. I will also be buying Live 18, and will be jumping into Ultimate Team. I'm not sure if you have checked out my 2K videos, but I have a good grasp on the sticks in general, and I have a good feel for basketball and how it should be played.

If you can't see the beach ball physics, the unrealistic clanks off the rim all the time, how the ball doesn't react how it should, I seriously question how much you have played the game. It's really obvious. My two brothers were playing with me yesterday (we were switching off), and they brought it up without me saying anything, and it was brought up right away in the first quarter. 2K has it's issues, TRUST ME, I had a thread that had over 150 comments on it related to all the issues I had with 2K. This isn't being a 2k fanboy, it's being realistic about each games individual issues, and the feel of each game. I absolutely have the ability to go from game to game, in fact, I can go from 2k to Live and be fine dribbling in both. Not everybody has the same skill level with these games, not everybody has to ONLY play one game, or focus on just one game, to get used to it. You are lumping everybody in together with that statement, that's false. 2K had major issues (especially after the patches) with players feeling like they were stuck in mud, slow passes, slow lateral movement, body steals/body blocks, forced animations, charging fouls, tendencies and ratings issues, etc. 2K was far from perfect, but it still flowed better.

Again, I will be buying Live 18, just like the past Lives. But you guys are crazy if you ignore those animation issues, they are glaring and very obvious. EA and Live need that feedback, we should be shouting that from the rooftops (like I did with 2K issues) in order to try and get them addressed. I stand by everything I stated above. To imply that "I will keep telling myself" something, means that I can't distinguish the two games, that I am not mentally capable of separating the two games because I have a biased to 2K, or that I am more used to it so that's the right way. That's not only an insult, that's completely wrong. I could not even touch 2K, and still have the same gripes about Live, the stuff I am mentioning is so obvious even on the first playthrough.


ok lets address it.
phpBB [video]



and this
phpBB [video]



Do you have a problem with what you see above? and if so what do you have a problem with? be specific to these two vids please.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:44 am

Absolutely.

First off, you are choosing one step back animation. Second off, you are chopping it up yourself (slow and fast, etc). Show me a video of a smooth step in for a jump shot, or a fastbreak stop on a dime shot, or a running sideways into a pullup. Stepping in for a smooth J is a basic basketball move, super basic. Going on the fastbreak instead and pulling up 10-15 ft before the hoop instead of taking it into the hoop is an essential, basic part of basketball. Have you gone up the court to pull up for a 3 on the break with Curry or Irving? Lets grab that animation, that will show the movements I am talking about.

Why don't you show a free throw, where the ball is shot softly through the air, but hits the rim like a line drive. Or lets show that on many different shots.

You are literally showing me a close up of a step back with slow/fast speed transitions.

You can't say "well this stepback looks good", without commenting on pure basketball basics that look and feel horrible.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby kingpnp on Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:44 am

Now THIS video shows that NBA has work to do. They need to fix this A S A P or else it will turn into a bunch of kids playing with 7 footers doing the double cross. we already have seen these exploit abuses in 2k in years past.

[youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THf2hOaSDiQ [youtube/]
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby kingpnp on Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:52 am

Dee4Three wrote:Absolutely.

First off, you are choosing one step back animation. Second off, you are chopping it up yourself (slow and fast, etc). Show me a video of a smooth step in for a jump shot, or a fastbreak stop on a dime shot, or a running sideways into a pullup. Stepping in for a smooth J is a basic basketball move, super basic. Going on the fastbreak instead and pulling up 10-15 ft before the hoop instead of taking it into the hoop is an essential, basic part of basketball. Have you gone up the court to pull up for a 3 on the break with Curry or Irving? Lets grab that animation, that will show the movements I am talking about.

Why don't you show a free throw, where the ball is shot softly through the air, but hits the rim like a line drive. Or lets show that on many different shots.

You are literally showing me a close up of a step back with slow/fast speed transitions.

You can't say "well this stepback looks good", without commenting on pure basketball basics that look and feel horrible.

That wasnt my video. The youtuber made those two videos himself. and both are not stepbacks. he's showing it in slow motion to show you the detail that a lot of 2kers are saying live lacks when its actually the opposite.

Try this one and tell me specifically what you dont like about the game

phpBB [video]
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:49 am

Ill use this video (great video btw, ThaLiveKing).

Kevin Love animation when he catches the ball (Play starts a 1:55). He goes from a stand still to momentum into a reverse layup (It looks really, really unnatural). Also note, these issues happen in 2K sometimes as well.

Kyrie Irving does a euro and finishes an impossible shot looking away from the hoop at 5:15. These, and the 360 layups with contact, and reverse/swinging layups happen whether we like it or not going to the hoop, they are once or twice in a season plays, and you see these multiple times a game in Live.

Klay Thompson (This isn't even moving into the hoop) at 7:07 with the robotic pullup from his side (showing the animations I have an issue with, that are completely unnatural)

Steph Curry at 7:30 with the ridiculous travel, and awkward/robotic transition into a mid range jumper (This is one of the only mid range jumpers on the move on this whole video, everything is basically a stand still 3, stand still mid range, or drive).

Kevin Love to Kyrie Irving at 8:10. Watch the players feet and the animations, they look (and feel, because Ive played it) horrible and unnatural.

Steph Curry at 9:25, when he pump fakes before shooting. If that first shot had gone up (Which players take all the time), it would have been a horrible animation. it had to be stopped in order to not completely butcher that transition.

Steph Curry 3 at 9:44. Look at his feet when hes transitioning in the next animation. Looks and feels unnatural. That's with him barely moving at all to his left.

Steph Curry at 10:40 with the super basic pullup, look at the transition in animations. It's slow, sloppy, unnatural. It looks silly. He looks like he goes through another transition mid pullup and his backkind of twitches, this is how it looks in Live when you are taking shots while trying to move into them. The straight up shots don't even look natural.

Kevin Love three at 12:25. Watch the bounce off the rim, shot goes up soft, and watch the ball when it goes to Nick Young. It's a rocket.

Kevin Love to Kyrie at 12:35. Watch how many animation transitions (bad ones, robotic ones) Kevin Love has to go through to make this pass to Kyrie.

Steph Curry 3 at 13:35. Watch how bad the step back looks, look at how unnatural that looks. It feels just as bad. His body doesn't look in any way realistic, it goes through like 3 animations before release.

Steph Curry free throw animation at 15:42. He has to go through multiple transitions to release the shot, it looks like NBA in the Zone 2. It feels that way as well.


phpBB [video]



ThaLiveKing put out a great video, and he highlighted some good aspects to the game as well, so I want to thank him for that. But to ignore or not acknowledge glaring issues with the animations is not helpful at all. I already stated the things I DO like about this game, and what I believe has been improved on. But, the skating, animation transitions, robotic feel keep it from being taken truly seriously. Theres a reason why a ton of people are screaming at EA in the comment sections after the release of Live. Like...

"I was optimistic for this year but god this looks awful. They should just give it up& make another fight night& skate 4"

"God this looks like a PS2 game, borderline PS3 to me."

"EA should drop the live franchise for good and revive MVP Baseball"

"Everything else about this game is amazing but those damn those animations are god awful, and the players still look like stick figures."

"Damn cant wait to turn on my ps1 and play this game :O #preorderingnow"

"Honestly I'm a 2k fanboy, the graphics here are amazing but god those animations are horrible the commentary is just flat"

"Seems like everything about this game is respectable BUT the gameplay ITSELF"

"nba live and 2K should work together..i like the atmosphere of live but bad animations.. 2K looks good but wack gameplay .. can't play real defense and they cater to dunk animations too much"

"Good presentation, trash gameplay."

Etc.

2K has its fair share of issues. I am talking about the gameplay in Live as a whole, it doesn't feel right. It feels choppy, and unfinished. The animations are stiff, like the shoulders/head are stiff compared to the rest of the bodies. I expected more after 2 years. I honestly want Live to be a great product, I was playing back when we had a ton of choices (I used to own the Lives, NBA in the Zones, NBA Shootouts, NBA Inside Drives, NBA 2K's, etc). I just want the feel of the game to be right, and fun. I want it to compete.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby kingpnp on Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:01 am

Hey Livers,,, Did you guys get that Nba Live 18 Demo UPDATE Today 08/14/2017???

Does anyone know what's in the update?
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby kingpnp on Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:21 am

Dee4Three wrote:Ill use this video (great video btw, ThaLiveKing).

Kevin Love animation when he catches the ball (Play starts a 1:55). He goes from a stand still to momentum into a reverse layup (It looks really, really unnatural). Also note, these issues happen in 2K sometimes as well.

Kyrie Irving does a euro and finishes an impossible shot looking away from the hoop at 5:15. These, and the 360 layups with contact, and reverse/swinging layups happen whether we like it or not going to the hoop, they are once or twice in a season plays, and you see these multiple times a game in Live.

Klay Thompson (This isn't even moving into the hoop) at 7:07 with the robotic pullup from his side (showing the animations I have an issue with, that are completely unnatural)

Steph Curry at 7:30 with the ridiculous travel, and awkward/robotic transition into a mid range jumper (This is one of the only mid range jumpers on the move on this whole video, everything is basically a stand still 3, stand still mid range, or drive).

Kevin Love to Kyrie Irving at 8:10. Watch the players feet and the animations, they look (and feel, because Ive played it) horrible and unnatural.

Steph Curry at 9:25, when he pump fakes before shooting. If that first shot had gone up (Which players take all the time), it would have been a horrible animation. it had to be stopped in order to not completely butcher that transition.

Steph Curry 3 at 9:44. Look at his feet when hes transitioning in the next animation. Looks and feels unnatural. That's with him barely moving at all to his left.

Steph Curry at 10:40 with the super basic pullup, look at the transition in animations. It's slow, sloppy, unnatural. It looks silly. He looks like he goes through another transition mid pullup and his backkind of twitches, this is how it looks in Live when you are taking shots while trying to move into them. The straight up shots don't even look natural.

Kevin Love three at 12:25. Watch the bounce off the rim, shot goes up soft, and watch the ball when it goes to Nick Young. It's a rocket.

Kevin Love to Kyrie at 12:35. Watch how many animation transitions (bad ones, robotic ones) Kevin Love has to go through to make this pass to Kyrie.

Steph Curry 3 at 13:35. Watch how bad the step back looks, look at how unnatural that looks. It feels just as bad. His body doesn't look in any way realistic, it goes through like 3 animations before release.

Steph Curry free throw animation at 15:42. He has to go through multiple transitions to release the shot, it looks like NBA in the Zone 2. It feels that way as well.


phpBB [video]



ThaLiveKing put out a great video, and he highlighted some good aspects to the game as well, so I want to thank him for that. But to ignore or not acknowledge glaring issues with the animations is not helpful at all. I already stated the things I DO like about this game, and what I believe has been improved on. But, the skating, animation transitions, robotic feel keep it from being taken truly seriously. Theres a reason why a ton of people are screaming at EA in the comment sections after the release of Live. Like...

"I was optimistic for this year but god this looks awful. They should just give it up& make another fight night& skate 4"

"God this looks like a PS2 game, borderline PS3 to me."

"EA should drop the live franchise for good and revive MVP Baseball"

"Everything else about this game is amazing but those damn those animations are god awful, and the players still look like stick figures."

"Damn cant wait to turn on my ps1 and play this game :O #preorderingnow"

"Honestly I'm a 2k fanboy, the graphics here are amazing but god those animations are horrible the commentary is just flat"

"Seems like everything about this game is respectable BUT the gameplay ITSELF"

"nba live and 2K should work together..i like the atmosphere of live but bad animations.. 2K looks good but wack gameplay .. can't play real defense and they cater to dunk animations too much"

"Good presentation, trash gameplay."

Etc.

2K has its fair share of issues. I am talking about the gameplay in Live as a whole, it doesn't feel right. It feels choppy, and unfinished. The animations are stiff, like the shoulders/head are stiff compared to the rest of the bodies. I expected more after 2 years. I honestly want Live to be a great product, I was playing back when we had a ton of choices (I used to own the Lives, NBA in the Zones, NBA Shootouts, NBA Inside Drives, NBA 2K's, etc). I just want the feel of the game to be right, and fun. I want it to compete.


K-love at 1:55 - lets address what you said. 2k has that issue where you could be at a standstill with no momentum going in a particular direction then your man after hitting the shoot button or analog for a shot. your guy will go into a predetermined animation to drive to the basket. Happened to me the other day while playing 2k. So here you’re saying its happening in this game. let’s take a look.

Kevin love caught the ball passed to him over the top. in the catching motion he actually shifts his feet.. then takes a step or could be two choppy steps. so in this situation he wasn’t standing as still as even I first thought on first glance. I’m too lazy to pull out the video editing tools. watch It in slo mo if you must. watch his feet shuffle. then he goes with the reverse. nba guys do this. I call it travelling at times, the nba calls it a good move. Remember he only made the extra reverse due to a help defender coming over at the last moment for a swat. very realistic.

Kyrie euro reverse back turned layup…5:15. I agree with you on this one…if it was someone not named kyrie..mr I make crazy layups all night every night. do you think kyrie could make that same shot in a nba game in real life? I do. so is it that unrealistic if you’ve seen it on live?

and just in case you don’t recall how crazy kyrie’s layups are..lets take a look
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohc0OPWSI5Q

you can also let it role into the the 2nd compilation of more kyrie crazy ridiculous layups. The guy is probably the best layup maker in the nba right now. I’m not the only one who believes this. two commentators say the same during the first video. another one brings up the fact that he’s #2 only to john wall when inside the paint as far as making layups. and we know Jwall gets a lot of his from blowing by people on a break. kyrie is doing this magical stuff in traffic. so this nba live layup is more realistic than one might think coming from that man.


Klay Thompson 7:07…that’s not unrealistic movement. Klay was bumped while shooting(should’ve been a foul). But lets remember klay has somewhat a robotic style of movement in real life. we’re not talking about curry. klay has less of that movement.


Steph Curry at 7:30 Hop but not putting the ball down is an official glitch. it happens in 2k as well. some people know how to make it do it over and over. but as far as him shooting a bad looking mid range jumper. is that the computer or the user? if it’s the user, that’s the fault of the user. if it’s the cpu they need to do some tuning. But most of us are no longer playing just vs cpu players. So that will most likely be a real person when the game drops. if the real person does that bad move and runs into traffic even if he couldn’t do that illegal hop move. The shot was a bad shot and the move was a bad move to make when you look at where the defense was already setup.


Kevin Love to Kyrie Irving at 8:10. Watch the players feet and the animations, they look (and feel, because Ive played it) horrible and unnatural.

Kevin love moves kind of stiff like that in real life lets be honest. Kyrie’s issue on this is that he’s slides back before going up into a jumper animation. that’s an issue. You would like for him to rise straight up since no defender is around. But while he’s in the catching motion he is initially fading backward some. Now we know 2k pulls out the animation where it could make the cpu player do a full on step back for no good reason at all(no one is on him) for a three point shot.



Steph Curry at 9:25, again that’s just bad basketball. that’s not bad animations. he never should’ve done that move since he never created enough spacing between him and the defender to properly take that shot. but he pump faked it then went up. that had nothing to do with trying to stop from butchering an animation. he stopped and faked because that’s either what the user or cpu decided to do.

Steph Curry 3 at 9:44. you don’t like the gather animation. which I agree with.

Steph Curry at 10:40, yes I agree the floating of the player not smooth floating due to serious momentum. yes that needs to be corrected. but again because the player is taking horrible shots it looks even worse since he’s being bumped.

Kevin Love three at 12:25. I agree with this. starts off slow then ricochets off the rim with crazy speed. this tells me they need to speed up the ball after a player has released it on a jumper. so It can match that ricochet. or obviously slow the ricochet down a little bit. again I still take this animation over 2ks over exaggerated ball bouncing and go clear over the backboard when you’ve shot a jumper where the missed shots angle would never bounce that high up and backwards. So both games are flawed in this category.

Kevin Love to Kyrie at 12:35, this is actually again the catch gather animation. looks better than above cause at least he was moving before the catch to give him more momentum


Steph Curry free throw animation at 15:42. I agree old live legacy issue with the animations not being smooth because they skip a step when going thru the knees bent portion til the shot is being released. is as if there are 30 frames to shoot a free throw and live only has 22 of them. the first frame, the last frame and a lot of frames in between. but since they are missing some of all the animations it looks choppy. 2k does a great job at the ft line with their animations.


Now i have a question for you or anyone else who feels those issues with animations in the nba live 2018 demo are so bad you wont pay for it?
if you say yes they are. Then I have another question.

If i told you right now you have two choices.
1. have a basketball game with a lot of nice animations but still a lot of weird unnatural stuff happening because the action is being preordained/or not controlled by the user. its controlled by 2 player canned animations or scenes that have to play out a certain way.

or
2. you have a basketball game with some nice animations and a lot of unnatural animations that make it seem like the animation guys didnt finish the job. but you have total control over your player on offense or defense. you are never STUCK in a 2 player canned animation.

you can only choose 1. which would you choose?

And it took me years to realize why it is this way. NBA 2k is over produced. It's an over produced reality show. But its the only reality show out since live was so behind they couldnt even get on TV.

NOw that it looks like live can get on the big screen. They are a nice netflix series but you can tell the camera work was a bit low budget or done by kids fresh out of film school.

from first glance the 1st option looks better on video most times. the first option looks great when you're watching someone else play. The 2nd option feels better when you're actually playing it. but can your eyes bare the lack of camera work(animations)? we shall see
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:25 am

kingpnp wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:Ill use this video (great video btw, ThaLiveKing).

Kevin Love animation when he catches the ball (Play starts a 1:55). He goes from a stand still to momentum into a reverse layup (It looks really, really unnatural). Also note, these issues happen in 2K sometimes as well.

Kyrie Irving does a euro and finishes an impossible shot looking away from the hoop at 5:15. These, and the 360 layups with contact, and reverse/swinging layups happen whether we like it or not going to the hoop, they are once or twice in a season plays, and you see these multiple times a game in Live.

Klay Thompson (This isn't even moving into the hoop) at 7:07 with the robotic pullup from his side (showing the animations I have an issue with, that are completely unnatural)

Steph Curry at 7:30 with the ridiculous travel, and awkward/robotic transition into a mid range jumper (This is one of the only mid range jumpers on the move on this whole video, everything is basically a stand still 3, stand still mid range, or drive).

Kevin Love to Kyrie Irving at 8:10. Watch the players feet and the animations, they look (and feel, because Ive played it) horrible and unnatural.

Steph Curry at 9:25, when he pump fakes before shooting. If that first shot had gone up (Which players take all the time), it would have been a horrible animation. it had to be stopped in order to not completely butcher that transition.

Steph Curry 3 at 9:44. Look at his feet when hes transitioning in the next animation. Looks and feels unnatural. That's with him barely moving at all to his left.

Steph Curry at 10:40 with the super basic pullup, look at the transition in animations. It's slow, sloppy, unnatural. It looks silly. He looks like he goes through another transition mid pullup and his backkind of twitches, this is how it looks in Live when you are taking shots while trying to move into them. The straight up shots don't even look natural.

Kevin Love three at 12:25. Watch the bounce off the rim, shot goes up soft, and watch the ball when it goes to Nick Young. It's a rocket.

Kevin Love to Kyrie at 12:35. Watch how many animation transitions (bad ones, robotic ones) Kevin Love has to go through to make this pass to Kyrie.

Steph Curry 3 at 13:35. Watch how bad the step back looks, look at how unnatural that looks. It feels just as bad. His body doesn't look in any way realistic, it goes through like 3 animations before release.

Steph Curry free throw animation at 15:42. He has to go through multiple transitions to release the shot, it looks like NBA in the Zone 2. It feels that way as well.


phpBB [video]



ThaLiveKing put out a great video, and he highlighted some good aspects to the game as well, so I want to thank him for that. But to ignore or not acknowledge glaring issues with the animations is not helpful at all. I already stated the things I DO like about this game, and what I believe has been improved on. But, the skating, animation transitions, robotic feel keep it from being taken truly seriously. Theres a reason why a ton of people are screaming at EA in the comment sections after the release of Live. Like...

"I was optimistic for this year but god this looks awful. They should just give it up& make another fight night& skate 4"

"God this looks like a PS2 game, borderline PS3 to me."

"EA should drop the live franchise for good and revive MVP Baseball"

"Everything else about this game is amazing but those damn those animations are god awful, and the players still look like stick figures."

"Damn cant wait to turn on my ps1 and play this game :O #preorderingnow"

"Honestly I'm a 2k fanboy, the graphics here are amazing but god those animations are horrible the commentary is just flat"

"Seems like everything about this game is respectable BUT the gameplay ITSELF"

"nba live and 2K should work together..i like the atmosphere of live but bad animations.. 2K looks good but wack gameplay .. can't play real defense and they cater to dunk animations too much"

"Good presentation, trash gameplay."

Etc.

2K has its fair share of issues. I am talking about the gameplay in Live as a whole, it doesn't feel right. It feels choppy, and unfinished. The animations are stiff, like the shoulders/head are stiff compared to the rest of the bodies. I expected more after 2 years. I honestly want Live to be a great product, I was playing back when we had a ton of choices (I used to own the Lives, NBA in the Zones, NBA Shootouts, NBA Inside Drives, NBA 2K's, etc). I just want the feel of the game to be right, and fun. I want it to compete.


K-love at 1:55 - lets address what you said. 2k has that issue where you could be at a standstill with no momentum going in a particular direction then your man after hitting the shoot button or analog for a shot. your guy will go into a predetermined animation to drive to the basket. Happened to me the other day while playing 2k. So here you’re saying its happening in this game. let’s take a look.

Kevin love caught the ball passed to him over the top. in the catching motion he actually shifts his feet.. then takes a step or could be two choppy steps. so in this situation he wasn’t standing as still as even I first thought on first glance. I’m too lazy to pull out the video editing tools. watch It in slo mo if you must. watch his feet shuffle. then he goes with the reverse. nba guys do this. I call it travelling at times, the nba calls it a good move. Remember he only made the extra reverse due to a help defender coming over at the last moment for a swat. very realistic.

Kyrie euro reverse back turned layup…5:15. I agree with you on this one…if it was someone not named kyrie..mr I make crazy layups all night every night. do you think kyrie could make that same shot in a nba game in real life? I do. so is it that unrealistic if you’ve seen it on live?

and just in case you don’t recall how crazy kyrie’s layups are..lets take a look
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohc0OPWSI5Q

you can also let it role into the the 2nd compilation of more kyrie crazy ridiculous layups. The guy is probably the best layup maker in the nba right now. I’m not the only one who believes this. two commentators say the same during the first video. another one brings up the fact that he’s #2 only to john wall when inside the paint as far as making layups. and we know Jwall gets a lot of his from blowing by people on a break. kyrie is doing this magical stuff in traffic. so this nba live layup is more realistic than one might think coming from that man.


Klay Thompson 7:07…that’s not unrealistic movement. Klay was bumped while shooting(should’ve been a foul). But lets remember klay has somewhat a robotic style of movement in real life. we’re not talking about curry. klay has less of that movement.


Steph Curry at 7:30 Hop but not putting the ball down is an official glitch. it happens in 2k as well. some people know how to make it do it over and over. but as far as him shooting a bad looking mid range jumper. is that the computer or the user? if it’s the user, that’s the fault of the user. if it’s the cpu they need to do some tuning. But most of us are no longer playing just vs cpu players. So that will most likely be a real person when the game drops. if the real person does that bad move and runs into traffic even if he couldn’t do that illegal hop move. The shot was a bad shot and the move was a bad move to make when you look at where the defense was already setup.


Kevin Love to Kyrie Irving at 8:10. Watch the players feet and the animations, they look (and feel, because Ive played it) horrible and unnatural.

Kevin love moves kind of stiff like that in real life lets be honest. Kyrie’s issue on this is that he’s slides back before going up into a jumper animation. that’s an issue. You would like for him to rise straight up since no defender is around. But while he’s in the catching motion he is initially fading backward some. Now we know 2k pulls out the animation where it could make the cpu player do a full on step back for no good reason at all(no one is on him) for a three point shot.



Steph Curry at 9:25, again that’s just bad basketball. that’s not bad animations. he never should’ve done that move since he never created enough spacing between him and the defender to properly take that shot. but he pump faked it then went up. that had nothing to do with trying to stop from butchering an animation. he stopped and faked because that’s either what the user or cpu decided to do.

Steph Curry 3 at 9:44. you don’t like the gather animation. which I agree with.

Steph Curry at 10:40, yes I agree the floating of the player not smooth floating due to serious momentum. yes that needs to be corrected. but again because the player is taking horrible shots it looks even worse since he’s being bumped.

Kevin Love three at 12:25. I agree with this. starts off slow then ricochets off the rim with crazy speed. this tells me they need to speed up the ball after a player has released it on a jumper. so It can match that ricochet. or obviously slow the ricochet down a little bit. again I still take this animation over 2ks over exaggerated ball bouncing and go clear over the backboard when you’ve shot a jumper where the missed shots angle would never bounce that high up and backwards. So both games are flawed in this category.

Kevin Love to Kyrie at 12:35, this is actually again the catch gather animation. looks better than above cause at least he was moving before the catch to give him more momentum


Steph Curry free throw animation at 15:42. I agree old live legacy issue with the animations not being smooth because they skip a step when going thru the knees bent portion til the shot is being released. is as if there are 30 frames to shoot a free throw and live only has 22 of them. the first frame, the last frame and a lot of frames in between. but since they are missing some of all the animations it looks choppy. 2k does a great job at the ft line with their animations.


Now i have a question for you or anyone else who feels those issues with animations in the nba live 2018 demo are so bad you wont pay for it?
if you say yes they are. Then I have another question.

If i told you right now you have two choices.
1. have a basketball game with a lot of nice animations but still a lot of weird unnatural stuff happening because the action is being preordained/or not controlled by the user. its controlled by 2 player canned animations or scenes that have to play out a certain way.

or
2. you have a basketball game with some nice animations and a lot of unnatural animations that make it seem like the animation guys didnt finish the job. but you have total control over your player on offense or defense. you are never STUCK in a 2 player canned animation.

you can only choose 1. which would you choose?

And it took me years to realize why it is this way. NBA 2k is over produced. It's an over produced reality show. But its the only reality show out since live was so behind they couldnt even get on TV.

NOw that it looks like live can get on the big screen. They are a nice netflix series but you can tell the camera work was a bit low budget or done by kids fresh out of film school.

from first glance the 1st option looks better on video most times. the first option looks great when you're watching someone else play. The 2nd option feels better when you're actually playing it. but can your eyes bare the lack of camera work(animations)? we shall see


I appreciate the long reply and the thought that went into it. This is the type of feedback the video game companies need, detailed like this.

So in the end, you agree with the animation issues in the game (most of them, we disagree on a couple things). Like the quoted items up top, there are thousands upon thousands of consumers who have the same gripes about the animations, about how they feel and look, about how they impact the game. This is a huge problem with Live, and it's what prevents me from even putting it in the same realm as 2K.

With the choices you give, they are not accurate. Live has plenty of forced animations, both games do. You think those drives to the hoop where your offensive player does some crazy types of finishes are not forced animations? They absolutely are. I feel like I have less control in Live than I do in 2k. But here is how I will answer that question.

I am buying the game anyway, I've stated that multiple times. In fact, I'm preordering Live and 2k right now. However, Live doesn't have what I look for normally in a basketball game (sports game in general). I play multiple user franchises, Live hasn't had that in years (and I havn't heard if it will be in 18, guessing not). This is a very basic feature that a sports game should have, and it hasnt existed in years. I also like to edit rosters (current or classic), that ability was also removed in Live, which should be a feature in any sports game. I like retro to be able to use in exhibition or franchise, Live doesnt have that and hasnt for a very long time. It doesn't have the gameplay I seek for the reasons I stated above.

I'm buying it because I am a die hard basketball fan and basketball video gamer, and I will play the Ultimate Team mode.

Live can't make excuses anymore about sales, or go "why me" when they keep coming out with games that don't have those super basic modes/features above, to go along with animations that are out of whack. You want to get more people to buy the game? You allow them to edit rosters, make rosters, distribute rosters on share, you give them multiple mode options, even the most basic ones. That's how you help up the sales and gain interest. You acknowledge the animation issues, you fix them. New engine? We are on the 4th/5th year, and it's still choppy/unfinished?

Those are my issues with Live. They are making a sale off of me, because even though I don't particularly like the gameplay, I buy every year anyway. That can't be said for the majority of the population who plays these games.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Andrew on Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:48 am

kingpnp wrote:Hey Livers,,, Did you guys get that Nba Live 18 Demo UPDATE Today 08/14/2017???

Does anyone know what's in the update?


No patch notes as yet. Checked the update history on PS4, and it was just the generic "minor bug fixes" note.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby matmat66 on Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:48 am

Agree with you on this one Dee. You echoed my sentiments on Live 18 based on the demo. As of now, 2k is more fluid for me. And like you, I will also buy the NBA Live even if it lacks the essential basic features of being able to edit teams and players, use classic teams/players, assign them to current teams, etc., just to have an alternative basketball game that I can play when I get 2k fatigue. I really wish we can have 2 great basketball games and hoping for improvement in the Live series.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dez on Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:56 pm

I basically pre-ordered because it wasn't the usual full price for new games on the Australian PSN, wouldn't have done so if it was full price.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby [Q] on Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:22 am

matmat66 wrote:Agree with you on this one Dee. You echoed my sentiments on Live 18 based on the demo. As of now, 2k is more fluid for me.

You guys are acting as if Live has had this long history of long, smooth animations... smoother than 2k
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:29 am

[Q] wrote:
matmat66 wrote:Agree with you on this one Dee. You echoed my sentiments on Live 18 based on the demo. As of now, 2k is more fluid for me.

You guys are acting as if Live has had this long history of long, smooth animations... smoother than 2k


That has nothing to do with it. It's stating that it's one of the biggest (if not the biggest) reason people won't switch over. Just because it's a known issue, doesn't make it any less of an issue. If you are competing in the same market, the same genre, and calling yourself a simulation, you will and deserve to be critiqued on the gameplay issues/mode issues (or lack of modes).

Even with the modes they have and as they are, far more people would make the switch or at least buy both games if the gameplay was smooth and the animations weren't broken. For example, it's 2017 and we can't up fake and step in for a smooth jump shot without it looking and feeling completely wrong?.

If it's not working, fix it. I don't want to hear that in 2017 they can't get smooth transitions, especially with technology the way it is now.

Nobody is acting like it's a new thing, we are merely contesting the issues that we have had for YEARS with Live. Issues that stop the game from being good or elite. It's what stops it from making sales or competing.

For example, if someone is an asshole in 2012, and they are still an asshole in 2017, you won't want anything to do with that asshole in 2017. You will avoid that asshole, because that asshole is still well... that asshole. So you can say "you act like he hasn't always been an asshole" all you want. But you still won't associate with him or hangout with him. This is why we can't use that as an excuse. You can say "if he would just change, people would like him more", and you can try to talk to him and give him constructive critiscm, you can be patient with him, even sympathise with him. But if he doesn't adapt or change, and hes still an asshole... well... not many people will support him.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby kingpnp on Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:25 am

Dee4Three wrote:
[Q] wrote:
matmat66 wrote:Agree with you on this one Dee. You echoed my sentiments on Live 18 based on the demo. As of now, 2k is more fluid for me.

You guys are acting as if Live has had this long history of long, smooth animations... smoother than 2k


That has nothing to do with it. It's stating that it's one of the biggest (if not the biggest) reason people won't switch over. Just because it's a known issue, doesn't make it any less of an issue. If you are competing in the same market, the same genre, and calling yourself a simulation, you will and deserve to be critiqued on the gameplay issues/mode issues (or lack of modes).

Even with the modes they have and as they are, far more people would make the switch or at least buy both games if the gameplay was smooth and the animations weren't broken. For example, it's 2017 and we can't up fake and step in for a smooth jump shot without it looking and feeling completely wrong?.

If it's not working, fix it. I don't want to hear that in 2017 they can't get smooth transitions, especially with technology the way it is now.

Nobody is acting like it's a new thing, we are merely contesting the issues that we have had for YEARS with Live. Issues that stop the game from being good or elite. It's what stops it from making sales or competing.

For example, if someone is an asshole in 2012, and they are still an asshole in 2017, you won't want anything to do with that asshole in 2017. You will avoid that asshole, because that asshole is still well... that asshole. So you can say "you act like he hasn't always been an asshole" all you want. But you still won't associate with him or hangout with him. This is why we can't use that as an excuse. You can say "if he would just change, people would like him more", and you can try to talk to him and give him constructive critiscm, you can be patient with him, even sympathise with him. But if he doesn't adapt or change, and hes still an asshole... well... not many people will support him.


all true and well said. funny thing is, 2k is also an A-hole. Same ole server issues like 8 or 9 years in a row. there's zero excuse. you are no longer a small team/small company just trying to squeeze into the genre. and since you've been thee #1 and only game people purchase for the most part... we know how many copies you sell. we know how much money you make. You have no excuse for the bad servers in 2017. NON. You also have no excuse to keep pulling me into animation after animation while telling me every year "there are no 2 player canned animations... you can break out of these animations THIS YEAR." stop it. you're lying. Just admit you like to over produce your games outcomes in order to make it LOOK visually more appealing. This keeps sells up and keeps you ahead of the competition.

This is why I'm always looking for some other team to come along and make that basketball game I've been waiting for because 2k aint it, and as of today neither is live to be honest. both games have made progress. and both games have their moments when you think "wait this my be the one." Nope. she aint the one, you were excited because she looked cute in a dark club on a dark night when you were liquored up. Turn the lights on when you're sober and lets see what she looks like. lets see if you're still willing to take the leap with her.
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