Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

[benji]

Adam West is like George Mikan. We don't include him when arguing about the list order.

Kevin Conroy is ABA Julius Erving.

[shadowgrin]

That Asperger victim Jesse Eisenberg ruined the movie.

That is all.

[[Q]]

So what's the consensus on this movie? Still bad? It's obviously grossed a lot of money because of the hype

[Andrew]

The drop-off from opening weekend has been staggering though, something like 81%. I keep hearing that Affleck was good as Batman, and that there were some other good ideas/moments in there, but that it felt like seven or eight movies poorly cut together. At this point, I'm thinking I'll just wait until it's available to stream or rent on DVD.

[Jeffx]

I thought BvS was well done....as much as I can't stand Ben Affleck, he did a great job as an older, grizzled, pissed-off Batman. I love how the movie borrowed from "The Dark Knight Returns".

Thought you guys might like this;


http://www.outrightgeekery.com/2016/04/ ... -superman/

[benji]

I hate to say it, but the extra 30 minutes in the home cut will probably explain the plot better. Watchmen was similar.

It'll still be one hell of a fucking slog of a movie though.

The only thing Snyder can seem to pace properly are battles.

[Sauru]

my opinion on the movie is the action was great and the entire story was fucking stupid. it made no sense. i could sit here and type til my fingers bleed telling you why i hated the story and all the parts that made no sense what so ever.

with that sad, affleck was great as batman and gal gadot surprised the hell out of me. in fact i think wonder woman was the best part of the entire movie. outside of lex i think the entire movie was cast really well. i am still excited for the future of DC though i admit i have low expectations for justice league since snyder is directing it

[benji]

Gal Gadot had a total of 16 lines in the movie.

[Sauru]

Gal Gadot had a total of 16 lines in the movie.

yeah whats that say about the movie as a whole

[Jeffx]

my opinion on the movie is the action was great and the entire story was fucking stupid. it made no sense. i could sit here and type til my fingers bleed telling you why i hated the story and all the parts that made no sense what so ever.

with that sad, affleck was great as batman and gal gadot surprised the hell out of me. in fact i think wonder woman was the best part of the entire movie. outside of lex i think the entire movie was cast really well. i am still excited for the future of DC though i admit i have low expectations for justice league since snyder is directing it

Marvel did a better job of setting up their universe, doing it over the course of different films. DC tried it in one fell swoop.

[Sauru]

DC felt the pressure to "catch up" which they dont need to do. they could just be their own thing. owning all of their own characters gives them a big leg up. snyder is not the right man for the job

[[Q]]

Yeah Marvel had a better plan, releasing individual movies for each before teaming them up (twice)
DC copied them but tried to cash in on the team concept and didnt build it up. They might just do it in reverse and do a BatFleck movie after this (oh god please no more Batfleck)

[Sauru]

they already announced the affleck stand alone

[benji]

I think people are misled by the fact that Iron Man came out four years before Avengers into thinking Marvel had a plan to "set up the universe" in some magical way when they were actually testing the waters until Iron Man 2 was a huge success.

Hulk bombed essentially, and Thor and Captain America barely scraped by. And it took three years after Iron Man and Hulk for Thor because Hulk was such a disaster. Iron Man 2 showed the first wasn't a fluke, but they still had to get to Avengers asap since they didn't have own any of their truly big characters. It essentially doubled the box offices for Iron Man 3, Thor: The Dark World, Guardians of the Galaxy and now Captain America: The Winter Soldier/Civil War.

The Dark Knight made $1 billion the year Iron Man came out. The Dark Knight Rises did the same thing, the same year as The Avengers

In between, Green Lantern was a disaster for Warner. Warner was still planning a separate Justice League film with a completely different cast until after Man of Steel was finished. Warner bailed out on Justice League: Mortal because it was thought they couldn't make the money back on a $250+ million team film. Remember, Man of Steel AND Batman v. Superman were retro-fitted into launching a larger shared universe after the fact when Avengers and the follow-up films made five hundred thousand trillion dollars.

Marvel didn't even have control over their films until after the MCU "started" and they were bought by Disney.

[benji]

Marvel's also focused on making outsider friendly, family friendly, basic action-adventure films.

Warner's gone for the ham-fisted dark and realistic brooding despair because of the success of The Dark Knight but doesn't have the mass appeal.

[benji]

Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice editor, David Brenner, has revealed that the first cut of Zack Snyder's film was around four hours long.

[Jackal]

They should release that 4-hour cut because the way scenes randomly hopped from scene to scene was terrible. There was no flow to the movie.

Mark Zuckerberg on crack ruined it for me. No sense of danger when that little shit is supposed to be the bad guy.

[bigh0rt]

I haven't seen the movie, but if I watch it, I'd like to check out the 4 hour version, for shits and giggles.

[[Q]]

Marvel's also focused on making outsider friendly, family friendly, basic action-adventure films.

That's Disney for you. And as a result, the movies you mentioned leading up to Avengers didn't need to be successes. The fact that Ironman did well helped for sure, as it was essentially Ironman 2.5 with cooler co-stars.

Warner's gone for the ham-fisted dark and realistic brooding despair because of the success of The Dark Knight but doesn't have the mass appeal.

Is that just desperation to put out successes? Just copycat all the successful movies and hope one sticks?

[Sauru]

i agree benji, marvel did not have this grand idea of starting individual franchises and bringing them all together from the start but once momentum built up and they set the plans in motion they did so really well. DC looks like it was to "catch up" as fast as possible and that could hurt them. i however believe it was snyder that hurt this movie and not the idea that they tried to put too much into one movie. i just think snyder really sucks when it comes to story. action? he is great but if there needs to be a story he is horrible

[Andrew]

I think a lot of people are talking about the story when they say the movie tried to do too much, cramming a bunch of different stories into one and cutting them together poorly. That's how it's been described to me, anyway.

Meanwhile, I've recently seen another friend speak very highly of the film and denounce the critics (professional and armchair), so it's seemingly shaping up to be a "love it or hate it" situation, with only a very small part of the audience in the middle.

[Sauru]

i loved parts of it and hated parts of it. best way i could describe it

[benji]

It's two films. That's why. Hence, the four hour original cut.

There's a film about the ramifications of Superman existing, with Batman and Luthor's mistrust leading to confrontation. A lot of which is poorly done and unnecessarily fit together.

Then there's a film about the need for the Justice League, which is broken fundamentally.

Luthor is unnecessary to the plot except for a bunch of ham-fisted ways to ultimately bring the team together and excuse Batman's out of character actions.

Ultimately what they needed to do is pick one reaction to the ramifications of Superman. Either Luthor, and make it primarily a Superman vehicle. Or Batman, and make it a confrontation between the two.

Also, they didn't actually know how to resolve the fight between Batman and Superman. And the film doesn't allow any time for its ideas to breathe. It's got too many scenes to get through.

A better way to have done things is focused the film on the Batman and Superman conflict and the themes of humanity standing up against unchecked power and the methods of heroes (intentionally violent Batman vs. Superman's intentions being noble but his skills unpolished leading to things like the Zod fight), minimizing Luthor's role other than to maybe set things in motion (and perhaps leave him a mystery man until an end reveal that he's manipulated events), and allow Wonder Woman to "solve" the conflict by intervening, revealing there are more powerful beings than just Supes in the world and appealing to both men's heroic nature. THEN done a film with Luthor's more serious attempt to stop Superman (realizing that not only has Batman chosen not to kill Superman, but now Supes has powerful allies, there are more superheroes emerging and his time to minimize the threat of Superman is diminishing rapidly so he needs to get his own hands dirty) which leads to the assembling of the Justice League to stop whatever Luthor's plot is, it can even still be Doomsday.

[JaoSming]

So where should they go now? With BvS in all it's amazingness

[zzcoolj21]

So where should they go now? With BvS in all it's amazingness

Why go anywhere? It was so good they could just leave the rest to the imagination.