Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby bigh0rt on Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:50 am

Andrew wrote:Is it fair to say they have too much potential main event talent on the roster to know what to do with? Obviously that's a good problem to have on paper, but when combined with the problem of not being able to tell good stories or give matches without a title belt meaning, it means that talent is going to waste.

Absolutely. And they’re having consistent, quality matches. They’ve just gotta get some interesting ways to tell stories and make me invested in the participants.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:41 am

It emphasises the need to, as you said, remember the "entertainment" part of sports entertainment. If you look back at the Attitude Era, the in-ring style wasn't as flashy (though still entertaining, in my view), but the stories and characters were better. It wasn't just the more adult themes and language either, though it does help when your babyfaces aren't calling heels poopyheads and the like. Beyond that though, there were interesting stories up and down the card. Austin vs. McMahon, with the world title involved. Undertaker vs. Kane. DX vs The Nation, which involved Triple H and The Rock. Mick Foley was doing interesting things with all three of his personas. There were some silly stories too of course (especially in the lower card) but generally speaking, the characters and the feuds resonated for the most part. The big names were involved in good feuds that didn't necessarily need a title, and different challengers stepped up to Stone Cold at different times as he took on all comers.

I think the same goes for the Ruthless Aggression era, and the years that came in between it and the era that started around 2013/2014. That's not to say there weren't mistakes and missed opportunities - Cena Wins LOL, no Cena heel turn, Alberto Del Rio, etc - as no era has been flawless, and it would be unreasonable to expect that. The current era has felt poorly booked and less than it could be though, especially considering the amount of talent on the roster and the in-ring product.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby [Q] on Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:16 pm

I think part of it is that the guys aren't as talented/creative as the all time greats in the attitude era were and/or the writers simply aren't putting them in a position to succeed. They have to stick so closely to the script nowadays that grabbing the brass ring is a pipe dream for most.

I think they have done an okay job at dealing with the talent for the most part. The "mid card" titles have become a 1B type of championship now with Brock sitting at home and with the belt stuck on AJ. I thought they would have dropped it to Shinsuke but shockingly they turned him and now the US title reign is a good way to put the belt on him without compromising AJs run

Unfortunately there will be people left out and Finn seems like the perennial odd man out now and Samoa Joe has been surprisingly missing and even The Bar have been idle with the Bludgeons dominance
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Lean on Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:44 pm

I think Smackdown is going the NXT route with the constant shuffling of people to be on TV. Sad to say, I still hate Raw for what it is and I think the reason for it to be boring is because of the missing world champion, and the 3-hour stretch they're running with. Not to say that Smackdown is flawless, but I felt it's easier to watch, and a lot more is going on like Becky potentially being the next contender because of her recent winning streak (and Charlotte's absence), Team Hell No reunion, Sanity going up, Almas going back on TV, etc. I'm also thinking that Smackdown would probably benefit with a 3-hour show but it may turn out to be a drag like Raw is today.

Would it have been nice if Braun did a cash-in on Brock outside the WWE and then let them just get rid of Brock and his ridiculous contract?

Andrew wrote:Is it fair to say they have too much potential main event talent on the roster to know what to do with? Obviously that's a good problem to have on paper, but when combined with the problem of not being able to tell good stories or give matches without a title belt meaning, it means that talent is going to waste.


This is true. I think if anything, the main roster people should take a look at NXT. NXT only has an hour of weekly shows on the Network but I feel uses their on-TV roster better than Raw or Smackdown. And that's why it pains me when NXT stars get called up because they usually get lost in the main roster.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:23 pm

It's interesting how they've turned Brock Lesnar's part time status into an angle and a source of heel heat. However, it's telling that they still couldn't get Roman Reigns over as a face with it, mostly because the idea of him complaining about someone else getting all the breaks and special treatment came across as laughable. The massive pop Kurt Angle received when he announced he would strip Lesnar of the title if he didn't show up to defend it shows how it's not just "nerdy smarks" that want to see the belt on TV and on a full time talent. Fans are weary of the story. It's time for Lesnar to put someone over.

Unfortunately, they haven't done a great job of making it look like there's anyone who can feasibly challenge Lesnar. Strowman has been protected for the most part, but has clean losses to Lesnar as well as Reigns, who has himself lost clean to Lesnar; more on that in a moment. Lashley hasn't lost to him yet, so he seems a viable threat by default, at least for the moment. The aforementioned Reigns has come up short time and time again; as much as Reigns Wins LOL is a problem, having him lose to Lesnar over and over again has hurt his character even further by making the pushes seem worthless, and by proxy, hurt the wrestlers he's scored victories over (with the exception of The Undertaker, who is at the end of his career, and whose legacy is secure). By having Reigns come up short, he looks like a choker.

Their booking of Lesnar has resulted in a predictable product with repetitive and dull matches, one of the worst main events in Wrestlemania history, a very divisive moment (ending The Streak), a worthless world title, and a roster that's been made to look weak. If Lesnar goes away and they start building people up again then WWE can move past it like some of the previous Dark Ages/down years they've had, but there's quite a bit of damage to repair. The sad part is that Lesnar will probably leave the company without ever really putting anyone over (except Goldberg), after so many selflessly took part in glorified squash matches to make him look good. All he's been good for is the occasional spike in ratings (which still haven't been eye-popping), and setting the company back several years, in the process wasting the prime of some of the best full time talents. SummerSlam 2018 really needs to be the end of it. Let him go back to UFC, and move on with the people who care about giving themselves fully to the company and business.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby bigh0rt on Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:50 am

Lean wrote:I'm also thinking that Smackdown would probably benefit with a 3-hour show but it may turn out to be a drag like Raw is today.
RAW cutting back to being a 2-hour program is maybe the best thing that could possibly happen to it. Focus on filling 2 hours of quality, entertaining television where you only use your best stories and talent, and I'm not left feeling like half of the show is filler. SmackDown being 2-hours is great, and I never, ever feel like "man, I wish there was another hour of this to watch". We're in an era where everyone is complaining about the length of sporting events, and being tied to their televisions, and have more flexibility on how they consume media than ever before. A 3-hour weekly program that feels every minute as long as it is, is a poor product (maybe it brings tremendous revenue to the WWE, but I'm just talking from an enjoyment perspective). Cut to 2 hours. Rotate the talent. Let us miss superstars and enjoy their returns after a few week hiatus, instead of forcing them into nonsense. Let them put on quality payoff matches where we're not already exhausted of having seen them square off for four straight weeks already.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby [Q] on Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:09 am

Yeah that's how they did it on the original Monday Night Raw broadcasts... That NXT style where not everyone shows up every week. Like these days, every time I see a favorite like Velveteen Dream or Street Profits show up it's a treat. Do some dark matches for the people who actually show up and you're good.

Smackdown inadvertently does that since some people won't make the 2 hour show and hell even with Charlotte's surgery it's allowed Becky to finally get some shine. And with Nakamura's dog bite injury or Jeff Hardy being all beat up, we see some cool matches or guys thrown in there to fill the spots

Who the hell wants to see lashley vs reigns when we just literally saw that last week? When they have feuds and dudes are fighting each other in meaningless matches for weeks on end or in tag matches against each other just for the sake of the live audience
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:14 am

The Bayley/Sasha feud is a fine example of nonsensical writing. Since when is it mandatory for two wrestlers to get along when they have a falling out? Isn't that when they should end up fighting each other, not be ordered to attend counselling? Kurt Angle's character ends up looking stupid too when he stresses that they "settle things in the ring", but does so by putting Bayley and Banks in a tag team match instead of squaring off against each other. "You better get along, or one of you is going to get traded"; because we don't want people who don't get along and are willing to fight on this show like it's pro wrestling or something, thank you very much!

It's obviously about prolonging the feud, and lengthy feuds aren't a bad idea, especially when done well so that everyone can get invested. But this is just bad writing (with some false starts) in an attempt to have a slow burn, which they were already doing. I also think they're trying to turn the wrong person, as Banks was being set up as the heel, and her character is more fitted to being tweaked in that direction.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Lean on Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:00 am

And it seems like it's going nowhere, too. I haven't seen Raw in a long stretch now, because I feel like it's the same story going on since Wrestlemania season. Imagine how great it would have been to just have Sasha as heel and Bayley as the inspiring babyface and have their feud in NXT run on the main roster (sadly I think Bayley doesn't connect with the main roster audience).

And again, we get another Reigns-Lesnar match :lol: because apparently that Lashley-Reigns match at Extreme Rules was for nothing.

WWE will have an all-women PPV in October, called "WWE Evolution." Somehow I still think Roman Reigns will show up and still main event the PPV.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:19 am

The answer is Woman Weigns! In all seriousness, it's a good initiative. They have stumbled a bit with the Women's Revolution at times, but it's still far better than the way the division was once handled, so it's nice to see.

Reigns-Lesnar...well, what can you say? Hopefully they pull the trigger on Reigns going over this time. If not, they'll only set him - and the product as a whole - back even further. Look, I'm not thrilled about Reigns being forced into the role of Face of the Company, and Reigns Wins LOL booking is even worse than Cena Wins LOL. However, to build him up only to have him come up short time and time again, and get his ass kicked by Lesnar, is terrible booking. It rivals the failed push of Lex Luger in 1993, where they built him up only to have him beat Yokozuna by countout at Summerslam 1993, and then never put the title on him. This should've happened at Wrestlemania, just so the company could move on and have a full-time talent trying to make the Universal title mean something. It's probably going to be a disaster of a match, but at least if they have Reigns go over, they can get back on track somewhat.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby bigh0rt on Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:10 am

RAW might be the worst show on television right now. Unwatchable.

Excited for the Evolution PPV, and I hope they book it well to maximize its potential.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:13 am

Meanwhile, if they end up putting the belt on Ronda Rousey, I wouldn't have a problem with that. I think Alexa Bliss has dominated the title too much (she's certainly ended up losing it and winning it back a bit too much in a short space of time), and Rousey has been impressive so far. She's been working the house shows to polish her in-ring skills, which are already pretty solid for a newcomer to the business. She probably sells better than most of the division too; probably a combination of having a bit of acting experience, and a history of being in real bouts through judo and MMA, so she knows what it's like to fight for real.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Lean on Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:19 pm

As much as I like Alexa, I'm tired of her being champion.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:34 pm

Playing hot potato with the belts hasn't helped the women's division in general. There's a feeling that even if Alexa or Charlotte or a couple of the others that have dominated the titles in the past couple of years do lose the belt, they're going to end up getting it back pretty soon. Basically the same booking that's affected the main event scene with the men to some extent as well. Asuka should've won the belt before her streak ended; it's more predictable if she does, but unpredictability isn't a good idea in and of itself.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Lean on Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:59 am

HOLY CRAP!

Spoilers, really. Unless you've read about it already.

Tomasso Ciampa is the new NXT Champion!
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby [Q] on Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:07 am

Could Black be on his way up to the main roster? I don't see him doing well there. He could get lost in the shuffle unless Vince falls in love with him because of his size

I'm tired of Adam Cole and his friends dominating everything but I guess that means they're doing a good job. Love Nikki Cross and she needs to finally move up. We need more Velveteen Dream
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Lean on Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:41 pm

Nikki Cross was on Raw on Monday when the all-women PPV event was announced, along with the other main roster women on-stage.

I'm having the same thoughts with Aleister Black. I thought Balor was unique because of the demon gimmick that would be his marketing draw, but look where he is now. Same with Black. I thought he's unique because of his borderline good/evil gimmick, but Vince may think he's not muscular enough. That's why I hate main roster call-ups these days. Most of them end up lost in the shuffle immediately.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:43 pm

They don't have compelling storylines for the established names, let alone the new call-ups. They've got a talented roster right now, but it's very underutilised.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:15 am

Some really bad news for Jerry Lawler: Former-WWE Star Brian 'Grandmaster Sexay' Christopher Hospitalised After Suicide Attempt

Former WWE Tag Team Champion Brian 'Grandmaster Sexay' Christopher was rushed to hospital last night after hanging himself in jail. Multiple sources report that the situation is dire.

The son of Memphis wrestling legend Jerry Lawler, Brian Christopher was born Brian Lawler in 1972. Following in his father's footsteps, he spent a decade working in Memphis' USWA under the name 'Too Sexay', feuding with many of the territory's top stars - including 'The King' himself - before making the switch to WWE in 1997. At first drafted in to bolster the fledgling Light Heavyweight Division, Christopher eventually found his feet pairing with Scott "Too Hot" Taylor as 'Too Much'.

The relationship between Christopher and commentator Jerry Lawler was a running inside gag, as the team mostly made up the numbers before a 1999 transformation thrust them unexpectedly into the spotlight. Adopting the names of Grandmaster Sexay and Scotty 2 Hotty, the newly rechristened Too Cool became unexpectedly over, thanks in part to the addition of the break-dancing superheavyweight Rikishi. Hitting the height of their popularity at the turn of the millennium, Too Cool found themselves in headline programmes opposite Triple H and Edge & Christian.


Damn.

UPDATE: He has since passed away, as has Nikolai Volkoff.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:26 pm

So...Heyman turns on Lesnar at SummerSlam? I kind of hope not, as it'll probably mean Reigns won't go over clean, and that needs to happen. Lesnar's reign needs to end, and all the people who have done the honours need to be validated by him jobbing the right way. The only person who's gone over clean is Goldberg, as part of a nostalgic run. As horribly as they've handled Lesnar, they can still make things right before any more damage is done.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Lean on Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:37 pm

If they make Reigns the new Heyman guy and go full hell, I'm fine with that. But it may also lead up to another feud with Lesnar in the future, and I don't want Brock to be back on WWE in the future. They have to get rid of him.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:51 pm

That could work as well. It'd be a decent alternative to Lesnar doing the honours clean.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:06 am

Jim “The Anvil” Neidhart passes away

Damn. It's been a tough few weeks for wrestlers. RIP, Anvil.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Lean on Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:58 am

Oh, I haven't posted on this thread. RIP, Anvil. :(

Meanwhile, predictions?

NXT Takeover Brookyln IV
========================
EC3 vs Velveteen Dream
Undisputed Era (c) vs Moustache Mountain
Adam Cole (c) vs Ricochet
Shayna Baszler (c) vs Kairi Sane
Tomasso Ciampa (c) vs Johnny Gargano (or if Gargano wins, he'll turn heel in the process)

WWE Summerslam 2018 (I may miss some matches, because I'm not following Raw)
========================
Finn Balor vs Baron Corbin
The B-Team (c) vs The Revival
Daniel Bryan vs The Miz (I think this feud is great)
Rusev/Lana vs Andrade 'Cien' Almas/Zelina Vega
Cedric Alexander (c) vs Drew Gulak
Braun Strowman vs Kevin Owens via shenanigans
Bludgeon Brothers (c) vs The New Day
Carmella (c) vs Charlotte vs Becky Lynch
Alexa Bliss (c) vs Ronda Rousey
Shinsuke Nakamura (c) vs Jeff Hardy via interference from Randy Orton
Dolph Ziggler (c) w/ Drew McIntyre vs Seth Rollins w/ Dean Ambrose, via an Ambrose heel turn
AJ Styles (c) vs Samoa Joe, only because AJ is the cover boy for WWE 2K19
Brock Lesnar (c) vs Roman Reigns via Paul Heyman turn or the show will end with a Kevin Owens cash-in and victory.

Reading through this, there are multiple options for the finish of the Universal Championship match: they could still have Brock retain and piss everyone off, have Reigns win finally and still piss everyone off, have Reigns win and turn him heel by having Paul Heyman getting him as his new client; if Braun wins the match earlier in the card, Reigns should be booked as a heel since Braun is a face. If Heyman doesn't turn on Brock, Reigns remain a face, and Owens win the match with Braun, KO would cash in and be Universal Champion.

But whatever, I'm going to watch Summerslam with low expectations.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:05 am

My SummerSlam 2018 predictions...

Finn Balor vs Baron Corbin (though it should be the other way around, and I won't be disappointed to be wrong)
The B-Team (c) vs The Revival
Daniel Bryan vs The Miz (with the feud continuing, but I think Bryan needs a big singles win on PPV to keep his ascent back to the top going)
Rusev/Lana vs Andrade 'Cien' Almas/Zelina Vega
Cedric Alexander (c) vs Drew Gulak
Braun Strowman vs Kevin Owens
Bludgeon Brothers (c) vs The New Day
Carmella (c) vs Charlotte vs Becky Lynch (it shouldn't be, but I see them doing it regardless)
Alexa Bliss (c) vs Ronda Rousey
Shinsuke Nakamura (c) vs Jeff Hardy (I agree Orton will likely get involved)
Dolph Ziggler (c) w/ Drew McIntyre vs Seth Rollins w/ Dean Ambrose
AJ Styles (c) vs Samoa Joe
Brock Lesnar (c) vs Roman Reigns (I wouldn't be surprised if there's a Strowman cash in to send everyone home happy, and set up a feud with Reigns)
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