Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

[koberulz]

X Division Title reigns since Slammiversary:
Chris Sabin, one week.
Austin Aries, one week.
Chris Sabin, one week.

When will they learn?

[JaoSming]

considering it was based around getting that championship match to vacate the title, it was fine by me. The AA reign was cheap anyway

[koberulz]

Is it even theoretically possible for TNA to do wrong in your eyes?

They're losing money hand over fist, had a house show barely any of their wrestlers could appear on because they weren't licensed in Missouri, which nobody noticed until day of, and appear to be hotshotting angles to try and pop a rating (putting the belt on Sabin was just monumentally stupid). They can't afford to pay their wrestlers, but they've had a new X division belt made. Hulk Hogan is the centrepiece of the show. Okay, so once you get past the older guys the matches are good, but the office is a shambles and they've fucked up so many times that even if they do start making a worthwhile product, people who've been burned half a dozen times already aren't going to bother tuning in.

Ring of Honor's in a lot of trouble too, by the sound of it. WWE could be the only game in town in a few years. At least TNA's video library might get some actual use; their current releases are pretty much exclusively PPVs. The last compilation I recall them doing was the Asylum Years one, which suffered from utterly horrendous match selection (and is four years old, at least). Not to mention that I tried to buy two DVDs from them once, and they wanted to charge me $60 just to ship them, so even if they did release anything...

[JaoSming]

Is it even theoretically possible for TNA to do wrong in your eyes?

replying to this before I read the rest of your post. Yes, and they have been doing plenty wrong lately. Outside of the ring they got rid of a lot of good TNA people to the point where there are only 3 X-Division and 3 Knockouts on the regular roster. I do like how they bring in guys from the independents like Jigsaw for random matches/shows, but the cuts they are doing are dumb. I mean, they got rid of that Jesse kid who broke his neck in a match for them.

In the ring, the MEM stuff is thin, way thin. Sting bitches and complains that no one has his back....so he goes to the other 4 people in the locker room who have been ignoring him this entire time and now they want to team up all of a sudden. Hogan sucks, this has always been agreed upon, just on different levels. It is all obviously leading to Bully's demise with multiple A&8s members going away and now the title loss, with Hogan giving him the final heave ho in the fall. A&8s was a fine redux of the NWO in my eyes, everything about the Bully swerve and months after it were fantastic. Then they went on the road, and that invasion aspect went away...then they got rid of Devon's TV belt, and now they have no gold in the group. It has finally fizzled without elevating anyone in the group.
Also, Rampage Jackson is forced, no need for that "star power". With so many people recently being cut, along with the creative head, most of TNA story-wise is very meh right now.

Now, the ring action is still top notch IMO. PPV quality stuff without the constant TV screwy finishes. Again, the Bound for Glory series is where this helps, but the X Division is always good and the Gail Kim vs Taryn Terrell matches have been fuckin' amazing. Gimmicks are great too, Daniels, Kazarian, Abyss/Park, Bully, Anderson, Chavo & Hernandez, Aries, Rooooooo, Storm, and on, and on. Then you have vets like Angle, Hardy and the other WWE boys that are simply vets who kick ass. No need for overly huge gimmicks or any of that, so then dont have them.

IMO, the biggest issue for TNA right now is not being on the road, but being stuck on Thursday nights and limited to 1 show. Yea, I think they need to do 2 shows for all the people they have, hell, even if its OVW branded, and go back to get slaughtered on Monday nights...maybe even a Monday OVW show and a Tuesday TNA show. E has been a lot better lately, and the trend is promising for that to continue, but Thursdays for wrestling died when Smackdown moved, and the NFL is just going to reinforce that.

Now, on for your bulk,

had a house show barely any of their wrestlers could appear on because they weren't licensed in Missouri, which nobody noticed until day of,

Evidently Prichard was the cause of that, and how contracts kept coming up without renewal without anyone knowing. He's gone now. But yea, its BS and hopefully that changes...but none of that affects the TV shows....still shitty, but not related to me.

appear to be hotshotting angles to try and pop a rating (putting the belt on Sabin was just monumentally stupid)

yep, and yep. I still think the swip swap worked the past few weeks, but Roode and Aries at least had more charisma than Sabin does. With the A&8s storyline we know it was a long year planned out thing, and it does feel like it has since been like Raw from a few months ago when Vince was doing rewrites day of for weeks on end. At the same time, I'm not going to straight reject TNA right now for all this. Once the dust settles on the cuts and such, then I'll decide if its worth my Thursdays or not.

people who've been burned half a dozen times already aren't going to bother tuning in.

Who are you referring to as being burned?

[Andrew]

For what it's worth, Prichard was out of the company before that incident took place, so he's been misblamed for that.

[koberulz]

I should firstly say that the first line of me previous post was a rather tongue-in-cheek, and is unrelated to the rant that followed it. Wasn't planning on going on that rant when I started the post, so it came off more aggressive than I intended.

It is all obviously leading to Bully's demise with multiple A&8s members going away and now the title loss, with Hogan giving him the final heave ho in the fall.

On the other hand, the guys that have left have all been fired/had their contracts lapse, so that's not even a storyline thing.

And seriously, how is it not blatantly obvious that you keep the belt on Bully until BFG, then put Magnus over clean? Beating Bully, on free TV, while making Sabin look weak as piss does absolutely nothing for anybody. As if it weren't obvious enough that Option C is a MITB ripoff without going the 'make the new champ look as weak as possible' route. And they're presumably going the CM Punk route where Bully vs Sting is the main event feud and nobody gives a shit about the champion.

Evidently Prichard was the cause of that, and how contracts kept coming up without renewal without anyone knowing. He's gone now. But yea, its BS and hopefully that changes...but none of that affects the TV shows....still shitty, but not related to me.

I guess I just can't separate everything out like that. I see shitty management, and shitty booking, and I'm left wondering why I should be supporting this company regardless of match quality. I have DVDs if I just want to watch good matches.

Gimmicks are great too...Abyss/Park

Really? I've never found the entire thing anything but cringe-worthy. Does anyone even remember who Abyss is anymore?

Who are you referring to as being burned?

I've seen a lot of people express the sentiment that every time they tune in to TNA because they hear it's good, it goes horribly wrong quite quickly so they're not going to bother this time.

For what it's worth, Prichard was out of the company before that incident took place, so he's been misblamed for that.

Pritchard was gone two weeks before the house show. The licenses should have been sorted well before that.




In other news, I bought a ticket to the WWE show here in Perth primarily to see CM Punk, who was pulled from the card after WrestleMania and is now touring on the other side of the brand split. They'd booked Shield-Hell No, however, so I was still looking forward to going...and now they've pulled Kane.

[Andrew]

They should've been, but shouldn't it also be the responsibility of the individual workers and/or the company as a whole, not just Prichard? In any case, a huge screw up there, but hats off to the workers who did their best to make up for it.

[koberulz]

Depends on how that particular task was allocated. That was Prichard's job area, so while he was employed there it was presumably his responsibility. TNA have said as much, from what I hear, although he does make a fairly convenient scapegoat. I certainly doubt the talent are expected to keep up with the various Athletic Commission (or whatever) regulations in each state.

Regardless of whose specific job it was or is, it's pretty clear that the front office as a whole--creative included--is a shambles.

[JaoSming]

koberulz, I have nothing to reply to with your stuff. Everything you said I either think the same as, or at least understand your viewpoint on. I didn't take your post as an attack either.

I think the main difference between us is that the quality of matches does mean more to me than you. But now that E has been 'giving away' better matches and has some better storylines, it is definitively better than TNA.

My last holdout for TNA is that the wrestlers there have the "look" I like better. By that I mean they all aren't massive masses of muscle. TNAs people are just more proportional IMO.

[koberulz]

My last holdout for TNA is that the wrestlers there have the "look" I like better. By that I mean they all aren't massive masses of muscle.

WWE doesn't have that many of those, do they? Cena, Henry, Brock, Ryback?

Can you explain what it is you like about the Abyss/Park gimmick/angle?

Got this in the mail today:



Anyone in else watching ROH? I tried to get into it a couple of times, but having to watch it online makes it a bit hard, as you've got to remember to go to the site for each episode within the week it's online and I hate watching stuff on my computer. Most of the guys I'm familiar with from the ROH DVDs I've got are no longer around, either, so it takes a bit to get into unlike jumping in and out of WWE or even TNA.

[JaoSming]

Anyone in else watching ROH?

no, but I secretly hope that Sinclair buys one of the stations near me so i can watch it on tv.

WWE doesn't have that many of those, do they? Cena, Henry, Brock, Ryback?

going down to Bryan, Cesaro, people who bulk up once they get to WWE. Its just a personal thing

Can you explain what it is you like about the Abyss/Park gimmick/angle?

I like the "comedy" aspect of it because it is still serious and not overdone like Santino & friends. They played up the lawyer newb part of it nicely and the bloody psychopathic breaks into Abyss works fine for me. Its enjoyable to watch, especially as the Park matches aren't 100% going to win or 100% going to lose, its an unpredictable thing.

[Andrew]

I'm really hoping they'll strap Bryan at Summerslam. Love him or hate him, Cena is over and moves merchandise so he makes sense as the champ and face of the company, but Bryan is clearly as over as he's ever been in WWE and he's been putting on great matches. It's time to give him a better reign and the rub from Cena.

[koberulz]

The current rumours are Bryan winning, only to be cashed in on by Orton. Whether that leads to an Orton reign or Bryan having the opportunity to go over both Cena and Orton on his way to a decent reign, I don't know.

[Andrew]

I hope not, that'd be cheap and we've seen that scenario (or very similar ones, at any rate) with practically every MITB winner. In any case, I'd like to see Bryan get a good run with the belt.

[koberulz]

Well yeah, but I doubt it'll end up being dissimilar to the others regardless, which is more to do with the earlier discussion than this one. It could work well if it's used to get Bryan over, though.

[Andrew]

Agreed. We're probably often quick to write things off in the IWC, sometimes for good reason, of course, but other times we do need to wait and see how things will turn out. A lot of people had written off Taker vs HHH at Wrestlemania 28 given that it was a re-match, yet it turned out to be a great match with impressive work and a well-told story, culminating with a great "Wrestlemania moment".

Still, I can't shake the feeling it might turn out like Christian's one week WHC reign.

[J@3]

My brother won tickets to the WWE world tour thing in Melbourne tonight so I went along. It was pretty awful. I didn't know who half of the people were and the place was full of kids. The guys in the flak jackets (the shield according to wikipedia) were really popular until the crowd realized they were heels (roughly 3/4 through the match they were involved in), the main guy (Ambrose) looks a bit like a down syndrome WIlliam Regal though so he was a bit hard to take seriously. I liked the big guy with the long hair, he has a good "look" (no homo). People love Daniel Bryan... well by that, I mean they love saying the word "yes". I knew who he was and a bit of his background, how good he is in the ring etc, it's sad that that really means nothing because no one there cared about anything other than him giving the signal for them to chant "yes" over and over. There were grown men (early 30's) sitting next to me getting genuinely excited by John Cena. They kept standing up cheering and yelling like excited kids, it was weird.

Review:

Turned up an hour late so I missed jobber vs Miz (apparently some kid started crying when Miz was losing, lol), Diva match and Khali vs someone. My brother called him "a giant Indian paedophile" so make of that what you will.

Ryback vs Cena:
They threw this on really early (at the time I thought it was weird, it made more sense later on). It was a title match I guess. Was actually probably the most entertaining match, they did some cool table spots (Ryback throwing the steps through the table was pretty impressive, military pressing Cena etc) but that bootleg Peoples Elbow that Cena does looks absolutely ridiculous in person. He missed him by about 3 feet, it was a running falling hammer fist to the mat. Cena won, put Ryback through the table. Did botch a spot where he slammed Ryback then had to knock the table (which he'd just set up) over to get it out of the way for their off the rope spot.

Ginger guy in leather vs Zack Ryder vs some generic looking guy who is a champion (intercontinental I think)
Weird match. They kept throwing the generic guy/champion out of the ring so the ginger and Ryder could do all the spots. The champion won obviously but he spent 90% of the match on the outside pretending to be hurt. Must have shit cardio or something. Ryder's got this stupid "woo woo woo" thing at the start of his music, which is some emotional nu-metal shit... doesn't fit whatsoever. He wasn't bad in the ring though, the ginger guy went alright too.

Ambrose vs Daniel Bryan for the US championship
They started this off by offering the crowd the choice of making it a submission match, or a "Melbourne street brawl" match. I was hoping people would go apeshit for the submission match just to ruin the spot, it would've been the highlight of my night. Daniel Bryan (who does a lot of submission stuff from what I remember) was begging the crowd to pick the street brawl... which makes complete sense against a guy who is in a stable. Anyway, Ambrose is weird he does these strange jerky movements and poses. I think he thinks he looks a lot cooler/more threatening than he does. He did a cool move I hadn't seen before, where he put a chair on Bryan's back and used it to lift him into a bodyslam. At some point the other guys from his stable ran out and attacked Bryan, then Kane came out (prob my favourite part of the night, I was a huge Kane fan when I was a kid) then Cena came out and suggested on the microphone that they turn this into a 6 man tag match.

Apparently Bryan was ok with Cena just revoking his title shot and turning it into a tag team match.

Team Cena won obviously. After the match some strange stuff went down. They played Bryan's music and he did the yes thing for the 50,000th time, then they played Cena's music... at which point he was half way down the ramp, didn't even acknowledge the crowd and just left. His music was on for all of 5 seconds lol. They put Bryan's music back on and he did more Yes's, while this was happening Kane was going around the ring shaking peoples hands, tripped over the ring announcer guy and got visibly angry at him. It was kinda funny.

Anyway, I came out of it all a bit confused and depressed. Confused by the whole "It's still real to me, dammit!" vibe from the adults there, and depressed that these guys have basically been turned into slogan machines. It seemed no one cared about anything involving the match unless it was a cue for them to chant something. I'm blaming the whole PG-13 thing, god knows how any legit guys will get over in future without a catch phrase. I have no fucking idea how Captain Generic is the IC champion, he had no catch phrase, default create-a-wrestler clothes, average size, not a lot of muscle definition. That was odd.

[buzzy]

The IC champ was Curtis Axel, formerly Michael McGillicutty. No charisma or go to moves, but he's the son of Mr Perfect, that's why he's still employed. Everything you need to know about him in a classic promo.

Overall I think you might have enjoyed the show a little more if you were in on the current affairs. Daniel Bryan is currently over as fuck, it's funny. He's scheduled to main event Summerslam with Cena for the WWE title in a few weeks, and has a good chance of actually winning.


You shouldn't shit on the crowd like that, though. Yeah we're all smart and stuff, we're looking for botches, we don't cheer for the annoying babyfaces, we know this shit is all fake etc, etc.
But imagine the whole crowd watching the show like you and me watch the TV program, quietly sitting down. This is pro-wrestling, this stuff lives and dies by the crowd. Sure kids suck, and adults cheering for Cena are cringe worthy, but in reality they're the better fans.
If they don't care for anything actually happening in the ring though, that sucks.

Daniel Bryan (who does a lot of submission stuff from what I remember) was begging the crowd to pick the street brawl... which makes complete sense against a guy who is in a stable.

Flawless logic.

[J@3]

If they don't care for anything actually happening in the ring though, that sucks.

That's what it was. They cheered as much for tie-ups as they did for finishers, all they wanted was the interactions. There were literally 40-50 pointless "YES" chants in the Daniel Bryan match. He was more over than Cena, because Cena didn't have a catch-phrase they could yell out.

Also to be honest I don't think it would've made a difference if I knew what was going on. There were no promos or storyline elements it was just match after match, plus they're extra predictable when it's a throw-away show in a foreign country because you know no title is changing hands and the faces will always win the bigger matches.

It's a shame because the guys were largely really good in the ring, a lot better than the ones I grew up watching. Even the random mid card triple threat IC match was good, unfortunately the matches were interrupted by the constant attempts from the wrestlers at getting the crowd to react to stupid things (gestures, catch-phrases etc) because they weren't reacting to what was actually happening in the ring.

[Andrew]

Shame the experience wasn't all that it could be. Like you said, it probably doesn't help that a house show on a foreign tour is going to have fairly predictable results and not a lot of story progression or anything, but if the ring work was good then that's something at least.

[JaoSming]

via http://pwinsider.com/article/79195/cena ... s.html?p=1

WWE ran Raw tonight at the Rod Laver Arena in Melbourne here. These were the results:
*The Miz defeated Antonio Cesaro in a good match. Cesaro can really go. Big reaction for Miz.

*Natalya defeated Aksana. OK.

*The Great Khali defeated Jinder Mahal. Oh, you know what this one was like.

*WWE champ John Cena won a Table Match, beating Ryback.

*WWE Intercontinental champ Curtis Axel defeated Zack Ryder and Heath Slater.

*WWE United States champion Dean Ambrose went to a no contest with Daniel Bryan. The ending was silly since they did the fan voting and it ended up being a Street Fight....which has no rules. The Shield attacked Bryan, which led to John Cena and Kane making the save, so they made a new match....

*Team Hell No & WWE champ John Cena defeated The Shield. Entertaining match.

[[Q]]

goddamn it i don't know why but i hate when they start a match, stop and then change it to a different match like that

[J@3]

To be fair there was really no ending, Cena just came in and changed the match to something else entirely

This one's a bit more detailed http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/275803- ... urne-event

I think a RAW/Smackdown taping would be cool but these little random house shows are just a money making exercise as that guy said. Felt like a local wrestling event with a bigger crowd to be honest.

[J@3]

In an effort to learn more about wtf is going on in the WWE now I stumbled across the Wyatt family. Bray Wyatt is the best character I've seen in ages, hopefully they don't ruin this like everything else with some promise.

[shadowgrin]

Khali..."a giant Indian paedophile"

Probably still a better story/angle than what the WWE comes up with nowadays.
I'd watch it just to find out how they will run with it.

Have a father/mother and son/daughter tandem planted among the audience near the ramp or the ring. Khali will stop near the pair and stare at the kid for about 10 seconds before the start of every match.
When the match is over Khali will come up to the planted tandem and stare at the kid for 10 seconds again then knock down the parent and carry the crying kid away as they disappear up to the ramp and to the backstage.

Just imagine the instant heat from the crowd and the media attention it will get. It's perfect for Khali as he doesn't need to use speak in anyway. I have no idea about the current WWE to figure out who will be the face character opposite Khali.

A plot twist can be made eventually as the abducted kids were actually turned by Khali into his army of child soldiers! To go to war against Pakistan! A new political storyline!