Oskar - developing to a better PG

[Fizdale]

Andrew, thats just an opinion - I said im better off not posting my post if u read my post, but I just expressed what my mind thought of - no big deal.

Oskar - there's no exit button, tho there's a close button, tell me if thats what you mean.

Q - You mean my avvy and osk's? nah hate the celts and I only find this avvy courtesy of martti good, i can change it and will now.

Cheers buds, and yeh props to you Oskar, youll grow someday realizing life better.

[Oskar]

buzzy, I said ATLEAST 3 meters. I'd do three pointers, near free throw line and so on. Not all from straight 3 meters.

Doc Noc, What I meant is you don't have to post some pointless stuff here.

The avatar isn't Martti's, it's made by me.

And also, life's good with basketball. I've already grown enough to know what I want.

[Kbryant8]

Oh and Jackal's thread is 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x better than this rofl.

eh? another idiot?
nice.

[Jackal]

Jealous you're not the only one now, aren't you?

[Kbryant8]

Jealous you're not the only one now, aren't you?

exactly.

[Andrew]

Andrew, thats just an opinion - I said im better off not posting my post if u read my post, but I just expressed what my mind thought of - no big deal.

I do get that, I did read your post. I'm simply disagreeing with the suggestion that threads like this don't belong in the Forum. If you feel that way that's fine, I'm just saying it's easy enough to avoid threads you're not interested in and post about something you're more interested in, if you feel inclined to do so.

[shadowgrin]

I shoot like 50% from the free throw line, and I got years to practice it.

You suck.
I know I have zero offensive skills in basketball but even I can shoot 7/10 free throws. I had to, it was part of the grading basis in my P.E. class.

Height: 169 cm, should be like.. 5'6"-5'7" ? Not sure, though.
Weight: 50-52 kg, depends on times, like 110 lbs if I am right.

169 cm = 5'7"
50 kg = 113 lbs.

Also thin, but I do weightlifting and everything, so I am kind a strong, but still, I'm thin. Around 50 cm vertical, but during the games I don't get very high.

I lol at you.
I'm 5'7, my vert was 58 cm when I weighed at about 155 lbs. I don't know now, I'm out of shape. Last measurement was at 52 cm.
Of course you're still young and your body hasn't fully developed yet but until that happens I lol at you.

[Oskar]

I shoot like 50% from the free throw line, and I got years to practice it.

You suck.
I know I have zero offensive skills in basketball but even I can shoot 7/10 free throws. I had to, it was part of the grading basis in my P.E. class.

Height: 169 cm, should be like.. 5'6"-5'7" ? Not sure, though.
Weight: 50-52 kg, depends on times, like 110 lbs if I am right.

169 cm = 5'7"
50 kg = 113 lbs.

Also thin, but I do weightlifting and everything, so I am kind a strong, but still, I'm thin. Around 50 cm vertical, but during the games I don't get very high.

I lol at you.
I'm 5'7, my vert was 58 cm when I weighed at about 155 lbs. I don't know now, I'm out of shape. Last measurement was at 52 cm.
Of course you're still young and your body hasn't fully developed yet but until that happens I lol at you.

You at my size, I'd win you 1 on 1.

I can also shoot 7/10, but I said my last normal percentage is around 50%. Even though with a streaky hand I shot 43 yesterday.

[shadowgrin]

You at my size, I'd win you 1 on 1.

You wouldn't be saying that when you're lying flat on your back after you just experienced an elbow to the kidneys or a knee to your balls.
I said I have zero skills in offense, not defense.
I do know how to defend guys faster than me.
Stronger than me, I'll probably give it all against them.
Stronger and faster than me, I'll just cry.

[Oskar]

About the free throw thing you said, I think almost everyone here has shot 7/10, but I am kind a sure you couldn't shoot 700/1000, which is a much bigger thing.

Btw, I know my vertical really sucks, but why you only compared with the worse things ? lol.

And about the last post, then.. I don't really get your point. Elbow to kidneys or knee to balls ? It's basketball, none's doing that. For some reason I guess you need to mix your defending skills then. (leave out the boxing shit), because no need to cry if you have a stronger and faster, give it all against and use your defending skills. And also, if you know how to defend, I have still many options. I can either penetrate and shoot, penetrate and go, crossover, pullup, hook and so on, I still think I could beat you.

Anyways, what I did today:

Practiced my shot from mid range. Also practiced free throw, really struggled. Also, I practiced my teardrop, kind a developing it, it's kind a easy with my right hand, but I need to work on my left hand.

And then I did my everyday exercises:
50 pushups, 50 situps and 50 biceps.

I got a problem with left hand layups. I always throw the ball to the wrong place, I can't get it up to the square. I just can't handle the ball when I'm high. ( Don't tell me to dribble with left hand, I can do that ) When I jump, I often loose the ball before getting as high as needed.

Few hours, then I'm off to a party, wee. I don't drink, but I still enjoy it.

[shadowgrin]

You really take eveything so seriously.

Elbow to kidneys or knee to balls ? It's basketball, none's doing that. For some reason I guess you need to mix your defending skills then. (leave out the boxing shit),

Why of course you're right! Every opponent you meet will play fairly against you just because you told them so! How brilliant! You might as well tell them to pass you the ball for an instant turnover so you'll score easily.

I have still many options. I can either penetrate and shoot, penetrate and go, crossover, pullup, hook and so on,

That is if you can penetrate, even if you have that crossover.
I used to defend really close, like the way Artest "bullies" his assigned player, bodying them up.
You'll probably kill me with pullups though. I'm lousy against that. Guess it's my mentality, I would rather have someone shoot over me than drive pass me.
Even when I'm assigned at the post, I'll just try to get the player out of position far away from the basket. When that player is near the basket, they usually have an easy time shooting over me. I suck at block attempts.

I still think I could beat you.

I think you could beat me too.
I suck. I admit it. That's why I try to inflict pain when the skill gap is wide between me and my opponent

[Joe']

Don't want to interrupt. Just wanted to point that anyone's who's played in a fairly decent team has to shoot at least 75% (and I mean shooting 75/100 every practice session, several times a session) otherwise your coach won't even call you up.

I shot 65% when I first joined the U-16 team and didn't even get to seat on the bench for more than half season.

[Andrew]

I wouldn't say everyone enforces that standard. It's a rare player, particularly at the junior levels, that doesn't have at least one weakness. Having said that, it's certainly not a bad idea to want to shoot higher than 75% from the line.

[Indy]

Don't want to interrupt. Just wanted to point that anyone's who's played in a fairly decent team has to shoot at least 75% (and I mean shooting 75/100 every practice session, several times a session) otherwise your coach won't even call you up.

I shot 65% when I first joined the U-16 team and didn't even get to seat on the bench for more than half season.

I coach an AAU team and I couldn't give a fuck less how they shoot from the free throw line. The less pressure you put on kids to make free-throws, the more they will just be able to step up and knock them down when need be.

I actually only have one player on my team that shoots over 80% from the line, but instead of wasting time in practice having them stand at the line and shoot free throws we practice our press and half-court sets. Usually we are much more prepared then the other team and it doesn't come down to foul shots in the end anyways.

[buzzy]

And then I did my everyday exercises:
50 pushups, 50 situps and 50 biceps.

Maybe it's me, but I think that's the worst you can do to your muscles.
Training them everyday won't give them time to develop and grow and you will only ruin them.
I'd make exercises three times a week at most, for like 15 minutes.
Somebody tell me please if I'm telling shit, but that's what I think is the best.

For the left-handed layups.
It's really important to develop your off-hand. One guy on my team can do layups with his right hand as well as the left hand. You really don't see what's his weaker hand if you watch him doing a layup.

Anyway, try to protect the ball as long as possible if you can't control it in mid-air.
And do some drills, dunno, some one handed shots with your left, to get the feeling. something like that.

[Andrew]

I'd recommend the tried and true Mikan Drill for developing your lefty layups.

[balozunite]

I'd recommend the tried and true Mikan Drill for developing your lefty layups.

hmm I never knew it was named after George Mikan
but its a really good drill. Our coach made us do it for 10 minutes before every practice and everyone's inside touch got a lot better

[Joe']

Don't want to interrupt. Just wanted to point that anyone's who's played in a fairly decent team has to shoot at least 75% (and I mean shooting 75/100 every practice session, several times a session) otherwise your coach won't even call you up.

I shot 65% when I first joined the U-16 team and didn't even get to seat on the bench for more than half season.

I coach an AAU team and I couldn't give a fuck less how they shoot from the free throw line. The less pressure you put on kids to make free-throws, the more they will just be able to step up and knock them down when need be.

I actually only have one player on my team that shoots over 80% from the line, but instead of wasting time in practice having them stand at the line and shoot free throws we practice our press and half-court sets. Usually we are much more prepared then the other team and it doesn't come down to foul shots in the end anyways.

American basketball, especially at high school levels, is extremely different from that played here in Europe.

Basketball matches are always very close here (at least in high-level leagues) and they're often decided by free throws. In fact, two years ago we were able to win most games (and as a consequence, the championship) because of our ability to shoot from the line with a high percentage.

Zone defense may be another cause of the high amount of free throws shot in a European basketball game. Coaches tend to choose zone (2-1-2 or 2-3 and, most of the times, full-court. Never 1-2-2 or 3-2) over man-to-man defense, mainly because there aren't many good three-point shooters in U-16/U-18 over here (at least in Italy). Since it is never executed in an excellent way, it creates holes in the defense, thus leaving no other choice to the defender than fouling.

Also, while most high school teams in American high-level leagues are very competitive, in Italian leagues (and also in other European countries, I'm sure), there's a bigger margin between teams, meaning there are very good teams but also teams you'd win against by 50 points, that were able to enter the league just because of the big economic resources they have.

Those teams, not having better options, usually commit a huge amount of fouls.

Maybe it's me, but I think that's the worst you can do to your muscles.
Training them everyday won't give them time to develop and grow and you will only ruin them.
I'd make exercises three times a week at most, for like 15 minutes.
Somebody tell me please if I'm telling shit, but that's what I think is the best.

As long as he gets between eight and ten hours of sleep per night he should be fine. It's best if he takes two days of rest a week max., if he really wants to see results.

Plus, he's not overloading himself, he's just doing some simple bicep curls as far as weight-training goes. I'd actually work (with weights) on the legs too.

[Andrew]

So basically, if there's a kid who's tremendously talented in other facets of the game but is only shooting around 65% from the free throw line, he rides the bench? I guess that kind of discipline is good for development but it seems a very Scott Skiles-like, cut your nose off to spite your face type of approach to coaching.

[Indy]

Don't want to interrupt. Just wanted to point that anyone's who's played in a fairly decent team has to shoot at least 75% (and I mean shooting 75/100 every practice session, several times a session) otherwise your coach won't even call you up.

I shot 65% when I first joined the U-16 team and didn't even get to seat on the bench for more than half season.

I coach an AAU team and I couldn't give a fuck less how they shoot from the free throw line. The less pressure you put on kids to make free-throws, the more they will just be able to step up and knock them down when need be.

I actually only have one player on my team that shoots over 80% from the line, but instead of wasting time in practice having them stand at the line and shoot free throws we practice our press and half-court sets. Usually we are much more prepared then the other team and it doesn't come down to foul shots in the end anyways.

American basketball, especially at high school levels, is extremely different from that played here in Europe.

Basketball matches are always very close here (at least in high-level leagues) and they're often decided by free throws. In fact, two years ago we were able to win most games (and as a consequence, the championship) because of our ability to shoot from the line with a high percentage.

Zone defense may be another cause of the high amount of free throws shot in a European basketball game. Coaches tend to choose zone (2-1-2 or 2-3 and, most of the times, full-court. Never 1-2-2 or 3-2) over man-to-man defense, mainly because there aren't many good three-point shooters in U-16/U-18 over here (at least in Italy). Since it is never executed in an excellent way, it creates holes in the defense, thus leaving no other choice to the defender than fouling.

Also, while most high school teams in American high-level leagues are very competitive, in Italian leagues (and also in other European countries, I'm sure), there's a bigger margin between teams, meaning there are very good teams but also teams you'd win against by 50 points, that were able to enter the league just because of the big economic resources they have.

Those teams, not having better options, usually commit a huge amount of fouls.

Even when games come down to free throw shooting in the end I prefer not having the kids have a ton of stuff in their heads about it. The feeling of taking a free throw down the stretch in a close game is so different then shooting 100 a day at the stripe that you can't even really apply what you got out of long free throw shooting sessions. I've always thought there are two different types of free throws, pressure free throws and practice free throws.

I'm not saying never practice free throws, I'm saying get used to what you need to do to make them, get that in your head and never think about it again. Through my high school playing days I was a 90% shooter and I never practiced my free throws ever other than during shoot around before games.

[Oskar]

Well, I sometimes shoot 5/5, then I shoot 0/5, so I'm not a person to find a streak, I rather do what I do and so. Joe', I have time to practice, and I'm pretty sure I can get to the team I want (I have a sure plan where, it's the easiest place for me to go.), next year.

[Joe']

So basically, if there's a kid who's tremendously talented in other facets of the game but is only shooting around 65% from the free throw line, he rides the bench? I guess that kind of discipline is good for development but it seems a very Scott Skiles-like, cut your nose off to spite your face type of approach to coaching.

Of course not. Problem is there really aren't many "tremendously talented" players here in Italy, at least not in the U-16 or U-18 categories. Most players here (even those now playing in the NBA, like Bargnani, Belinelli and the upcoming Gallinari) usually develop to be very good players after 18 years of age.

The most talented players in the U-16/18 categories here in Italy usually play in very high-level teams (AJ Milano, Benetton Treviso, etc.) with other top notch players. Since most players in the team are excellent players, even the most talented are considered just above-average, thus treated the same way as every other player in the team.

EDIT:

Joe', I have time to practice, and I'm pretty sure I can get to the team I want (I have a sure plan where, it's the easiest place for me to go.), next year.

Never settle for the easiest. Even if you have to travel a lot to get to practice, it's worth it if the team is better in quality (i.e. plays in a higher-level league, has better players with whom you can confront yourself).

[Oskar]

Joe', I don't really settle for the easiest. It's practically the only place for me to go. They go to Poland and other places to tournaments, etc. Maybe, after 1-2 years, when I'm with them and they(/we) go there, if we'd get a win and I'd snatch the MVP, it would push me up and so.

EDIT: I got some more information about myself.

I tell all that I tried before today's exercises:

Height: 169 cm.
Weight: 51.4 kg.
Wingspan: 160 cm.
Height with raised hand: 215 cm.

I also made a picture of my chest right now, I'll soon post it on the fitness thread, and at the end of summer, I'll make a new picture to see the change.

[Oskar]

Just came from playing with my friends. We played like.. 4 hours. 2 on 2, til' 200. My team won, 200-108. I tell my stats, but they are around, they look really sick, but it was to 200 points and 2 on 2, so its not a surprise. Around 100 points, ~30 assists, around 7 steals, around 15 rebounds and exactly 3 blocks. Or was it 4.

I didn't get blocked so much that time, and my shot was pretty good this time aswell. I think I shot around 50% from the field, to count all made layups, etc. I think I got blocked maybe.. 5 times ? None of those was like a nasty block that threw the ball away, just little touches that made the ball change it's direction.

[buzzy]

Don't rely on your stats in pick-up games.

2 on 2, til' 200. My team won, 200-108

haha, we fuck up the score while playing every time. And that in games until 11 or 21 points. We're like "What's the score?" - "Dunno"

I can't even imagine counting properly in a game until 200 points