Yeah, great mods we're having here.

[Goldenstatewarrior]

Actually I never banned you. I deleted your account, but didn't IP ban you. It gave you a second chance and a wake up call which seemed to work well despite your IQ level .

Also CoolMAC, Jackal does not need to be threatnened by anyone for doing a service (thats right, all this is volunteer work, he doesn't get a sent for it).

How would you feel if you offered to help somthing that you like, and then get some petty threat becuase of difference in opinion? That question goes for everybody.

Everybody in this thread should thank Andrew, Jae and Jackal for thei volunteer work to the community instead of bitching. If you want to breed negativity, you won't be welcome here. It's just that simple.

Well said b0i b0i...

[COOLmac©]

yeah i know every single one of those facts. and i am thankful for your moves matt. but if weaver really did those threats out in private and jackal retaliate out in the private? then we can never know what really happened? right?its like between a big fight of 2 kids done in the backyard without their parents knowing it. as publically as DW goes, i have never seen him publically insult jackal more as jackal did insult him. even to the point of hurting his ego about his upcoming offsprings and his wife.
hell my girl visited this forums ones, we had our laughs. but lately i try to make her avoid being here as to what negative comments and personal attacks could have occured.
by the way i have read every single forum law here. and that includes weaver's PM threats if there is really any! but didnt jackal struck him too personally to make him do that? i dont know those are just speculations of mine. that is why i want to hear his side. right now i am starting to hear yours. so what do you say?
i agreed to this terms

"There's going to be some give and take on both sides"

trust me i know how hard you guys worked, but dont you think about 10 members bashing out a few heartaches to you guys is a big number? then there must be something wrong with the whole "FOR THE GOOD" thing going.
your rebuttal pls

[Andrew]

I'm not going to offer a rebuttal asI really don't know what you're trying to say there. What I mean by that "give and take" point is, everyone has to be willing to listen to everybody else as well as put their own point across. It'll be much easier to come to a satisfactory conclusion.

If it means a bit of "yelling", so be it if that's what it takes. So long as both sides are prepared to give and take in the discussion, be fair and be willing to resolve the matter so everyone's satisfied.

[Filip]

I've left this thread until now as it was a long day at work and I wanted to unwind a bit with general posting before I try to sort this matter out. I really don't need this right now, but it's part of the admin gig, so here goes.
The situation with Dweaver runs a bit deeper than a couple of posts, there was an issue with some private messages and Jackal had agreed to back off but felt provoked, hence the banning as the situation again escalated.

Well, if I got it right, Dweaver and Jackal had some privat issues that really didn't concern the forum, therefor it shouldn't effect Dweaver's account at the forum. I mean Dweaver has done any flaming or anything in this forum, he actually been avoiding it. Jackal on the the other hand has trying to start shit with him forever, then when Dweaver finally get's enough and respond he gets banned?!
Jackal should as well be banned then.

Filip, I've seen the comments you've been throwing around about me and I don't appreciate them,

I only said that you made some stupid decisions. I've never called you moron or whatever Jackal claims that I've said.

especially as I try to be as fair as possible to everyone and am always willing to discuss situations to find the best possible resolution. If you feel there's a problem with the moderating, I'm happy to talk about that with everyone and try to resolve the matter so everyone's satisfied.

That's what were doing right now, isn't?

So right now, I'm clearly and publically acknowledging that there's concern about the moderating. Now I'd like to hear some specific complaints/points of concern and suggestions

Well, I think the threads I posted in my first post, pretty much did the talking for what is wrong with the moderators. They don't show any basic posting manners, they don't give a shit, they call other posters words as soon as they disagree with them or whatever. Matthew for example called ma a faggot for no reason what so ever yesterday.

So with that in mind, let's have it. I don't enjoy coming home to this

You think Dweaver and Boyk enjoys being banned without no good reason.

[J@3]

There was good reason... seriously Filip, I'm not trying to flame you or belittle you but will you please try and find out all of the facts before you go and say these things. My banning of Boyk wasn't due to 1 incident, there had been 3 separate incidents where he had (what I would consider) unnecessarily flamed me in response to minor comments. Dweaver was banned, and I know the reasons behind it. They are, in my opinion, very very fair.

You really can't expect any of us to take your views and concerns seriously when you blatantly refuse to learn all of the facts beforehand.

[Filip]

Wow, 3 whole incidents. You want me to give you a list of how many times you and Jackal unnecessarily flamed ppl in response to minor comments.

[J@3]

Give me a list of how many times I heavily flamed 1 single person. I don't mean little comments like "Piss off idiot"... because that's hardly anything at all. Go on, find 3 examples of me heavily flaming 1 person without any real reason.

[Filip]

You called what Boyk wrote heavily flaming then?

[Jackal]

Well, a good morning to you folks also. Always with the drama, oh well, here we go.

I'll start off by explaining why it is I decided to suspend Dweaver. As you folks might have made out by now, I did it because of some private threatening. Now before I actually show everyone the threat, I'd like you folks to actually get some things into your heads, alright? Just try to do this for better understandment of the situation.

- I am an asshole.

- I have never said I am a saint & I admit to being quite a flamer.

- I have never turned my back on a fight I started. Everyone in this community knows by now that I have fought my battles on my own & gone lengths to fight battles of others' because I felt they had been wronged.

- If you want to really fight, don't make threats in private, do it on the forums where everyone can see & don't go all psychotic about it. It's still just a forum.

After having said that, let's take also take into account I've had fights with numerous people and some of them have bettered themselves yet some of them just hold blind grudges. That's also fine with me, with or without this moderator tag or the support of the few people I can get to support me (Read Jae & Matthew) I am fully capable of handling myself. It's never come to the point where I've had to say, alright, this guy deserves to be banned, not even with Filip or Lanky Man or even Homor. Even when it was with EG or Paul Pierce given a lot of you might think I prey on the dumb. No, I never resorted to request them being banned or put away.

None of the above mentioned were disgusting enough to make shamelessly empty threats not once, but twice. You all can read on & decide for youselves:

From: *DreamWeaver*
To: Jackal
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:00 pm
Subject: Final warning
If I ever see one of my posts deleted in a thread we were 'exhanging arguments', I will forgo of my nice demeanor for a change and will have to make sure you will have as hard a time navigating or even logging into thi sforum as hard as you make it on me to just mind my own business and affiliate with the people of this community that I deem worthy of some appreciation. I have the means to do so, so keep this warning in mind.

Do not bother responding, via PM or otherwise. Your message will be ignored. Consider yourself warned.

I was upset, ofcourse I was. I sent him a PM telling him to shove his warning up his ass. Usual lingo I use in other words. Fine.

Andrew came online, we spoke extensively & given I noticed how uncomfortable a situation I'd put Andrew in, I said you know what? Fuck it. I'll let it slide. (Matthew & Jae were quite positive that that threat deserved a ban, but I said no, feel free to check this.)

Alright, it took a shitload out of me to actually ignore something of that sort but for the sake of Andrew and the site, I said fine. Let Dweaver keep on posting and it'll be all good.

Dweaver kept going with his remark such as "you all should ask what a jackass is". That ticked me off. Here I am sitting here swallowing one of the foulest PM's I've ever had in my history on the NLSC & you're mocking me? Do I look like a fucking piece of shit that you're gonna sit there & mock ME after all of that?

It's clear that Dweaver had a sense of security after talking to Andrew and felt he was in a comfort zone and that his "suspension" will be "negotiable" using his own words. "Oh, I'll say I'm going to hack the site & Andrew will take notice." That's just wrong.
Might I add that's like internet terrorism.

Anyways, after that little "negotiable" post I revoked my silence or in this case my right to act on that threatening Private Message and proceeded to suspend Dweaver for 5 days. He would be back in 5 days. Now that's debatable though. That's very debatable now.

This morning I logged on & spoke to Andrew about the suspension. He said he saw it fit & all. I just needed to double check if he was ok with it, which he was because no matter how sad you make it look for him, he crossed the boundries way beyond I did.

Andrew told me to notify Dweaver about how long his suspension would be. I had cooled down quite a lot after a good night of rest. So I said alright.

I sent Dweaver a lengthy e-mail in which the main points were simple: I told him about the duration of his suspension. I asked him to add me to MSN so we could work it out amongst ourselves and not involve Andrew so that he doesn't have more of a headache than he already does by browsing the illiterate postings of you folks.

Dweaver's response to that taken directly from the e-mail:

You have moved past the point of no return. You have brought whatever there is to come upon you...

If you wanted a personal war, then you will have your wish... It may take a month or two, but you will know what I mean by then. Better start saving some money, just in case.

I have no more words to exchange with you. We are done.

You threaten to have something done to my Computer? Fine. I can handle myself I've said. But just keep in mind he talks like a terrorist, sounds like he's going to blow me up when I walk down the street, let me tell you I'm at a point in my life where I wouldn't even mind that.
You fucks can't even begin to imagine what my life is like. Yet I laugh it off, I vent some & I am what I am, an asshole. But to get shit like that, just makes you shake your head and go, what else is left?

Anyways, even after that threat, I am still willing to just leave it to a 5 day suspension because I'm not one who likes the suspension or the banning. I've been there & done that. I know how it feels, hehe, I still fucking give a shit about how he feels, I am sadder than I thought.

Anyways, on to other matters.

Filip, you're just trying to start shit here, but if you wish to do so, by all means lets.

I explained Dweaver to you so that's checked off.

The PM sent to Toolmac was before I rejoined as a moderator. Get your facts straight, it'd be much better for your credibility which is hovering around minus a gazillion. I sent that PM before I left the forum never to return because of Dweaver's comments about me sucking off Matthew. (Then I'm the one starting shit? People are so quick to point the finger saying Jackal is a flamer, bad bad Jackal. You all don't even know anything. I doubt anyone remembers why it is I decided to leave, it was because of Dweavers comments.)

Anyways,

Jackal calls Lpasso a wanker after disagreement? I've called Matthew & Jae wankers all the time? What is your point? I call my best mates wankers, what's your point? Lpasso has no problems with me & I have no problems with Lpasso. Stop fishing.

That's all I have to say for now.

[J@3]

You called what Boyk wrote heavily flaming then?

In response to what I said? Yes I would. A personal attack in retalitation to a one line comment (which to be honest was nothing) is heavily flaming. Read it again.

[Filip]

What about someone joking with you which you respond with: "Piss off idiot"?
Ain't that heavily flaming as well considered that he was just making a joke?

[J@3]

What about someone joking with you which you respond with: "Piss off idiot"?
Ain't that heavily flaming as well considered that he was just making a joke?

1: That's not even remotely near "heavy flaming".

2: It really wasn't a joke... we'd had some minor disagreements in the past, now why would a guy who doesn't know me whatsoever on here apart from some negative experiences make a "joke" about removing me as a moderator?

Anyways you should read Jackal's post, it explains why Dweaver was banned and as you can see there were some pretty unacceptable things said. It was only a 5 day suspension aswell, for threatening someone that's pretty leniant. Although after that last email who knows what'll happen.

[Filip]

What about someone joking with you which you respond with: "Piss off idiot"?
Ain't that heavily flaming as well considered that he was just making a joke?

1: That's not even remotely near "heavy flaming".

Well in that case Boyk posts wasen't either.

2: It really wasn't a joke... we'd had some minor disagreements in the past, now why would a guy who doesn't know me whatsoever on here apart from some negative experiences make a "joke" about removing me as a moderator?

I don't know, but it dosen't change the fact that you still flamed his ass by telling him to fuck off.

Anyways you should read Jackal's post, it explains why Dweaver was banned and as you can see there were some pretty unacceptable things said. It was only a 5 day suspension aswell, for threatening someone that's pretty leniant. Although after that last email who knows what'll happen.

Sounds interesting

[J@3]

Well in that case Boyk posts wasen't either.

Lol you're kidding?

Piss off idiot

come on seriously Jae, have you ever been here??

you have no idea what your on about, but you wont admit that coz your a self-centred prick.

You think your better than everyone else, and its really annoying!

I mean you changing your name to Jaesus sorta topped that whole thing off.

Just shut the fuck up and get ya facts right before you start making some bullshit up!

Get outta ya parents basement and stop searchin porn n beatin off, and get outside, its good for ya!

I know you're a bit biased and all but geez.

I don't know, but it dosen't change the fact that you still flamed his ass by telling him to fuck off.

I didn't tell him to fuck off.

That's not flaming, do you actually know what flaming is? Flaming is something that includes loads of insults and is generally really offensive, it's not a one line insult. That's just that, it's an insult. It's not flaming.

[Filip]

Ok, boyk's posts might have been a bit worse but it's not still sufficent to bann him for IMHO.

I mean look at this post from you directed at me:

:arrow: Your patches suck.
You have more posts than I do
The amount of 1 word, or fucking useless posts you make is ridiculous
Everyone, besides your little posse consisting of Homor thinks you're a fuckwit
You personify everything wrong with the NLSC at the moment

And who have I made quit? Homor? I know he's your internet boyfriend but that guy was one of the worst internet forum posters in history.

I don't give a shit how much you think you've grown up, you've always been an insignificant little shit here who's yet to make a semi decent post in the 2 years you've been here.

Oh, and those mixtapes were shit too. Best thread ever? Fuck off.

You didn't got banned by that, now did you, and that was way more flaming than whatever boyk wrote to you.

[Matthew]

:arrow: Your patches suck.
You have more posts than I do
The amount of 1 word, or fucking useless posts you make is ridiculous
Everyone, besides your little posse consisting of Homor thinks you're a fuckwit
You personify everything wrong with the NLSC at the moment

And who have I made quit? Homor? I know he's your internet boyfriend but that guy was one of the worst internet forum posters in history.

I don't give a shit how much you think you've grown up, you've always been an insignificant little shit here who's yet to make a semi decent post in the 2 years you've been here.

Oh, and those mixtapes were shit too. Best thread ever? Fuck off.

Best post ever

[J@3]

That was about a month after I became a moderator. If you read that thread, it was very back and forth between both of us. It wasn't just me flaming you and you innocently sitting there doing nothing. I'd also like to make you aware that we cleared things up in PM. These things work both ways, the things I said weren't in response to some small little comment you made (i.e Boyk to me) and I didn't, 3 times, single you out for that amount of abuse (i.e, Boyk to me).

When people are wrong about something they change the subject somewhat, so congratulations on not being able to answer anything I've said to you in my previous post.

You also neglected to post this...

You're right, I didn't actually mean this to escalate or anything but I've got nothing further to say as far as Filip goes. I've made my feelings about everything known in that thread I did (lol I complain about not getting many replies to my own threads, then lock one without a single reply) but basically the problem here isn't that every thread turns into an argument, those things keep this place active, the problem is mediocrity. Go check out .org's off topic or spam forums, the threads are pretty horrible and I worry the same thing could happen here, but their patching sections are great. Either way, Neutral (I could've find a face with a zip on it, that's the closest thing)

I admitted I was wrong, you played the victim. Go figure.

[Filip]

:arrow: Your patches suck.
You have more posts than I do
The amount of 1 word, or fucking useless posts you make is ridiculous
Everyone, besides your little posse consisting of Homor thinks you're a fuckwit
You personify everything wrong with the NLSC at the moment

And who have I made quit? Homor? I know he's your internet boyfriend but that guy was one of the worst internet forum posters in history.

I don't give a shit how much you think you've grown up, you've always been an insignificant little shit here who's yet to make a semi decent post in the 2 years you've been here.

Oh, and those mixtapes were shit too. Best thread ever? Fuck off.

Best post ever

Again: Shut up you cancer-boil

[Jugs]

How would you guys feel if the forums were run by wisdom_kid, da_balla wit his zero o's, kobe101 and his spam and all the other "i typ liek diz lil br4" peoples

I wouldn't like it.

I think the moderators are okay, when they have to, they step in and try to stop the flame wars.

Everyone gets angry at a point, each people have different anger points. But the moderators have gotten them selves into flame wars, but it's not always their fault. They have been delibrately attacked by other users and they just want more respect than what the badge gives them.

If you do not like the moderator situations, then leave and go join live.org.

Now, I do expect Jae, Jackal or Filip to reply with "fuck off, don't get involved you 500 post n00b who spams" by the way, I don't spam too bad, anyways. Well I don't care, I felt the need to express my opinion in this situation.

everyone has to be willing to listen to everybody else as well as put their own point across

Hopefully he means everyone

And I will be glad if this situation can be sorted out with out Andrew stressing out.

[J@3]

That's probably the most sensible post in this entire thread.

[COOLmac©]

okay i payed good money at a cafe just to post this stuff. i felt i left you guys in the hang back there. sorry it was after office hours already.

okay back to my points

Jackal you brought out your side. it was good your man enough that you do admit you make mistakes too, same goes for Jae and matt. well DW will be back in 5 days time and i want to hear him say something about this allegedly hacking stuff he is accused of. well me personally i can hack. but i never give it a crack because i am a law abiding citizen. that comes from my word of honor. so we may never knew what DW is capable of, plus his insane warnings. it appears that he has lost all hope in reconcilliation with jack here. but who knows what the tides will really turn out in a couple of days.

to finish off. i have no probs actually with guys in the mod area. yes they do make fun of many poeple, but as based on my experience and all, they all seem to let it past after a while. but as i have told you mods along time ago...poeple do get hurt. and it is very unprofessional like if you continue this "happy go shame soembody technique" of yours. if the mod responsibilites each of you have is a burden to you then give it up. if you think you are a target because your a mod dont think so about it. i know we as a humans, men notably have this big ego on us that we dont want to be stepped on, yeah been there quiet a few times. but its human nature to be upset and be frustrated and all. so if you do get this feeling my only wish for is not to let it go past about 5-6 post of retaliation. a good insult once in awhile is good, but not all the time it works.

but hey like i said before, there is no point in trying to change people heads into cooler ones because we aint just the same. we have our mind and live in different cultures.
still you fellas have all the say since you have all the power. noone can storm in here and tell you to step down. or give it up. it is just all to you to decide, like what you fellas told me a while back when i decided i have to leave. to be honest my life is getting shitter by the day now, the whole damn country is getting crappier as so i speak, but i dont get the negatives in life catch up with me interacting with poeple. thats all

the final say i will do when DW gets here and clear that terrorist thing he just invoke. after that i think i have made my point and consider that i wont messed up this boards that much longer. it been well and fun with you guys, i hope i can never see any of this ill-gut feelings escape to outside than here in this NLSC issues thread, lets leave the general thread friendly for a change. thank you

no emiticon can describe what i felt after posting that

[Null17]

okay i payed good money at a cafe just to post this stuff.

um...don't you have a life?

[Filip]

That was about a month after I became a moderator. If you read that thread, it was very back and forth between both of us. It wasn't just me flaming you and you innocently sitting there doing nothing. I'd also like to make you aware that we cleared things up in PM.

Fair enough. But since you're the moderator and I'm just a poster, you should stop the arguing instead of escalading it.

These things work both ways, the things I said weren't in response to some small little comment you made (i.e Boyk to me) and I didn't, 3 times, single you out for that amount of abuse (i.e, Boyk to me).

Can I see those posts were Boyk so called abused you? I haven't seen any flame wars started by Boyk at all so?

When people are wrong about something they change the subject somewhat, so congratulations on not being able to answer anything I've said to you in my previous post.

What exactly do you feel is unanswered by me from your previous post?

How would you guys feel if the forums were run by wisdom_kid, da_balla wit his zero o's, kobe101 and his spam and all the other "i typ liek diz lil br4" peoples

Well you know, there's more than the 2 options: Retards or Flamers.

I think the moderators are okay, when they have to, they step in and try to stop the flame wars.

"Try to stop flamewars" , please show me an example of this. Fuck man, 90% of cases of flamewars they are fucking behind it.

They have been delibrately attacked by other users and they just want more respect than what the badge gives them.

And they get that respect by saying "Fuck off dipshit"?

BTW: How come Andreas Dahl & Cameron (when he was posting) never got into any flamewars? Is that just luck, or is it perhaps because they gotta a whole different attitude than Jae, Jackal and Cancer-boil?

[J@3]

You knew what I was like when I became a moderator. Did you think I was going to turn into Cameron overnight?

Fair enough. But since you're the moderator and I'm just a poster, you should stop the arguing instead of escalading it.

As a poster you also have a responsibility.

Can I see those posts were Boyk so called abused you? I haven't seen any flame wars started by Boyk at all so?

http://www.nbaliveforums.com/sutra32621 ... ht=#326219

He attacked me completely unprovoked... the whole thing suddenly grew, then fizzled out and I had no problem with him after that. After I responded harshly he got scared and backed down. It was nothing really, but it was example number 1.

There was a second time, I'll be fucked if I'm going through all 32 pages of his posts to find it.

The third time was the "last straw" so to speak. I don't view him as a positive contributer to the forums, and there's only so many times I'll "back down" and just let him get away with it. Lets face it, if I had responded and a flame war started you'd still be making this thread. If I had left it and not said anything, I'd feel like a door-mat.

Sure the banning was probably a little harsh, I'm not going to start telling people what's going on in my private life because frankly it's none of your business but things gradually build up and eventually it comes out in a certain way.

As far as you're concerned Filip, I think this is quite possibly the most unnecessary, detrimental thread I have seen in a long while. You're not even remotely interested in discussing the job the mods are doing, or offering any solutions to it. Your sole purpose is to basically sling insults or try to make us look "bad" by bringing forth examples that aren't even really relevant since most of Jackal's were before he was a mod.

You're not helping, if you can't see that it's not my problem. I will continue to be a moderator here, I will not suppress my personality to suit your feelings and if it came to a point where Andrew was unhappy with the way I was behaving I would step down from my position.

You've got a complete and utter inablity to put your own personal opinions aside and look at things objectively, you and Sit are friends of Boyk so of course you jump on my back and get all high and mighty over that. Dweaver is banned, so he emails you lot and once again you're on here crusading about things.

People like Stevesanity and surprisingly COOLmac/magadag have expressed their opinions in a suitable manner, they've put forth their concerns and managed to do it without trying to demean us or belittle what we do in any way. You provoke your reactions Filip, did you honestly think any of us were going to read a thread titled "Yeah, great mods we're having here" and respond in a positive manner to you? You really need to step back and have a look at your own actions, because honestly, if anyone's being detrimental to the community it's you and your little group of followers.

I've had my say, I'll have no further interaction with this thread. If you're really so bothered by the job I'm doing as a moderator, feel free to add me to msn theprophetsaid@gmail.com That goes to anyone else who is unhappy with how I'm doing things. I won't guarantee I'll do what you want me to do, but I am willing to listen.

[FendeR`]

Filip, it's impossible to take your petty complaints about the moderators insulting others seriously when you persistently call Matthew "cancer-boil". Grow up for once, how come the moderators have to be Ghandi, while you can cause havoc wherever you want. Set the standard, and others will follow.

I completely support the current moderators. This site would be nothing without the moderators how they are. However hot they can become, at the end of the day they keep the forum how it should be. They can all be all be the nicest people you've ever met. But if you decide you'd like to criticise them without doing your homework and having a valid point, and being able to take criticism back, you are asking for trouble. I'm sure no one here who is complaining about the mods likes to be insulted. Here's an idea; neither do they! So if you jab at them, you can expect it back. Don't act like if you insult them in some way with a comment, they have to respond in a completely cool and care-free way because they are mods. Lighten up, this is an NBA Live forum.

What I am up for, though, in hopes of something of a compromise, is adding Andreas as a mod (if he would agree). Andreas appears as a very calm person, and very suited for the job. I think he would add a more subtle approach to moderating, in case discussions start to "heat up". But, I still believe that our current moderating group is absolutely fine. I'd be willing to bet that Jae visits more threads than any other member, which is something I don't think can be replaced. I've seen Jackal take a gigantic step towards acting very calmly to people who may have broken the rules, for which I give him a lot of credit for. Matthew's time goes back before I joined, but I haven't seen any reason for him to be unfit to be a mod. I think with the possible addition of Andreas, we would have a very well-rounded mod staff to which no one could complain.