Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

[deihatein]

I currently shock at the death of one of the best wrestlers of all time. I just see the headline on yahoo.com and check at wwe.com if it is true and it is and Qballer you are right about that how could he kill himself and his family without a gun and stab wounds? . Weird?. He killed his wife and son in the weekend and then himself on Monday? Maybe because he couldn't handle the truth that he just killed his loved ones and he will see Eddie Guerrero in heaven.

R.I.P To one of the greatest physical wrestler of all time.

Chris Benoit

(Been to many wrestlers dead lately)

[shadowgrin]

I can't think of any words.

[Lean]

Shocking news. And I've browsed to the WWE website and saw Mr. McMahon's comments about last Monday's RAW. So Benoit's death ruined McMahon's "death".

Eddie and Chris would see each other again. RIP Chris.

EDIT: And it's also sad to see Cena win at Vengeance. This is madness.

[shadowgrin]

It's much better that the McMahon death angle be dropped after what happened. If the WWE continued it, they're a bunch of soul-less douchebags.

This is madness.

Madness? THIS IS SPARTA!!! *kick*

[Andrew]

I'm glad they nixed the angle and didn't try to continue in the face of the tragedy in the name of shock value, though I don't think they would have stooped to that level regardless of the further details that have now been made available about Benoit's death.

[Andrew]

A recent post at Rajah's suggested that when Undertaker returns around November, it will probably be his last run, so he'll probably never get that lengthy title run unless they make 2008 a farewell Taker tour. If it were up to me, I'd move him to RAW, give him a long run with the WWE title and restore the old belt design. I'm not holding my breath on that one though.

[Lean]

Shucks. But the transfer to RAW is possible, he may be the one to beat Cena and restore the old belt.

[Andrew]

Possible but not likely, unfortunately. Cena's probably not dropping the belt until he takes time off to shoot that new movie that's supposedly in the works.

[Lean]

...unfortunately.

Sounds like you want that belt off him now.

[Andrew]

Now that he's surpassed JBL's reign in length I'm certainly in favour of it but to be honest it's more about wanting Undertaker to have a lengthy title reign and getting rid of the spinner belt than wanting Cena to lose it. It is about time someone else had a run with it though with all the injuries I'm not sure who else on RAW should take it from him at the moment. I don't really subscribe to the idea that anyone would be better than Cena; for example, Lashley is in the title picture right now but I wouldn't say he's ready for a run with the belt. If they push him the way they did in ECW his reign wouldn't be much better than Cena's anyway.

[Lean]

I'd still root for Lashley on the Bash. Just to get that belt off Cena.

[BigKaboom2]

Everyone seems to want the belt off of Cena, but who do they want to have it?

I've got no problem with him keeping the belt this long - most of his title defenses have been very entertaining. However I wouldn't mind seeing Triple H, Kennedy, or Booker T WITHOUT the King gimmick (I hate it so so much) take the belt from him at Survivor Series or even Summerslam.

[[Q]]

sooo I turned on TNA impact today because I was curious and didn't have anytihng else to watch and in a match I saw Mr. Earl hebner himself. WTF???? when did this happen?? that referree was the face of WWE for as long as I can remember... at least 15 years. does TNa just sweep up the WWE's leftovers and disgruntled employees?

[shadowgrin]

Earl Hebner was fired by WWE for selling unauthorized WWE merchandise, and to consider that he's with the company for a long time, he should know better.

[Andrew]

Everyone seems to want the belt off of Cena, but who do they want to have it?

I've got no problem with him keeping the belt this long - most of his title defenses have been very entertaining. However I wouldn't mind seeing Triple H, Kennedy, or Booker T WITHOUT the King gimmick (I hate it so so much) take the belt from him at Survivor Series or even Summerslam.

Cena does lift his game in big matches and less talented workers than him have had lengthy major title reigns. If HBK hadn't been injured I would have like to have seen him have another run though.

[Lean]

Or Triple H with another title run, as a face. Probably not today, I'm sure that there will be more Cena-Lashley re-matches after they face each other at the Bash.

And Earl Hebner, was he the ref on the Montreal Screwjob?

[Andrew]

He was indeed.

[BZ]

Apparently, Triple H is lobbying for Orton to take the belt off of Cena so Cena can chase Orton for the belt, which would be more 'marketable'. I think it's a good way to divert the boo's to Cena to Orton... but heck, both are hated. I can only imagine how much boo's the WWE sound editing team has to do just to make the match seem cheerfully exciting.

[Andrew]

I guess that might freshen up Cena's character to have him chasing the belt rather than toppling everyone in his path but I'm not sure about Orton as the champion. He's talented but if he hasn't cleaned up his act then it could be quite embarrassing for the WWE.

[Lean]

I think suspensions won't change Orton's way.

[BigKaboom2]

Orton's workrate is just as good as Cena's, possibly better, in my opinion.

I don't know why they're starting up the boring Legend Killer angle again. Hopefully it ends with Cody Runnels working some matches with him.

[Andrew]

The only real knock against Orton as a worker is his overuse of rest holds such as chinlocks. It's his attitude, behaviour and immaturity that are more of a concern.

[BigKaboom2]

Would you call an abdominal stretch or a stepover toehold a rest hold? I just can't tell the difference between overuse of rest holds and working a bit of submission wrestling into a match, which I'm a fan of.

I would say it's silly if a wrestler applies a leg lock near the beginning of a match for more than 30 seconds, then doesn't continue to work on the leg after that. However, WWE matches are so short and movesets so limited that this rarely becomes an issue.

What I mean to ask is when you think a hold becomes a rest hold rather than a hold to "wear down" the opponent in a believable manner.

EDIT: Oh good, the main event of Raw is a Lashley-Cena "Face-Off". I give up.

[BZ]

What I mean to ask is when you think a hold becomes a rest hold rather than a hold to "wear down" the opponent in a believable manner.

Usually the knock on wrestlers for doing rest holds are because they're slowing down the pace of the match and indicates that the wrestler doesn't have enough stamina or skill to carry the match in an entertaining fashion. I remember back in the day, old-school wrestling consists of a lot of holds and test of strength, striking back and forth action, along with a lot of the same moves being performed.

I just can't tell the difference between overuse of rest holds and working a bit of submission wrestling into a match, which I'm a fan of.

Rest holds are basically wrestling moves that practically require both the attacker and his opponent make a hold seem painful, yet allows them to be in a position where they can gain their breaths and whatnot. So yeah, ab stretch and a stepover toe hold would probably be considered a rest hold.

The only real knock against Orton as a worker is his overuse of rest holds such as chinlocks. It's his attitude, behaviour and immaturity that are more of a concern.

Seeing the wrestling boards imo, the rest holds are just excuses made by Orton haters that want to find different ways to criticize Orton. I think those chinlocks add to his strategy, since the RKO does target the neck and lower head area of his opponent, so it seems logical to me. Also, Orton no doubt deserves every criticism thrown at him, but heck, if he was actually an opposite of what he is right now, combined with his obvious talents in the ring, he'd be near the top with Cena in terms of preferential treatment by the company... as if Orton didn't get enough of that already.

[Andrew]

Absolutely, and the fact that's it's really the only criticism about his work that you commonly see already places him above Cena as a worker. He has the in-ring talent, the right look and a very natural arrogant heel persona to be a champion. It's just tough to reward a guy with a history of poor behaviour who could very well embarrass the company at any given time.

Since you brought up old school wrestling, it's funny how times have changed. If the 80s are far enough behind us to be considered old school (or at least the modern era of old school wrestling), an all-conquering face was quite successful back in the day. After all, Cena's push mirrors Hogan's minus the alleged politics yet it's widely disliked to say the least. Still, if Cena's character had remained a little more anti-hero and been booked to be a bit more vunerable his reign might have succeeded in terms of fan support, even amongst smarks.