EA interaction with the NBA Live community

[DANet]

I usually check in at the NHL forums once in a while to keep up to date on what's developing in that series. Anyway...since NHL 2004 has just been released I was poking around at Thunderpuck and was blown away to see that the PRODUCER for the NHL series has 70 posts in their forums!!!!!

Some of the posts were really basic such as:
Question posted - Does anyone know if NHL 2004 will come on 2 CD's

EA (Dave Warfield) - 2 CD's.... I posted this some time back.

But there are also some more in depth informative posts such as:

Question posted - will ea have the license this year for authentic painted (goalie) masks or will it be just the team logos? i heard that all of the mask painters will not allow the games to display the mask art in games this year. anyone know anymore about this?

EA - There is a dispute between the NHLPA and the mask painters over who actually owns the rights to the masks when a player is wearing it. Until this is resolved Add-ons will be the only way to include real masks.

Question posted - Since Phoenix released their new logo today, and it seems that EHN is going to have the new logo and color scheme in their game, is EA going to include it as well?

EA - NHL 2004 will have the new Phoenix jerseys and logos.
Calgary was not 'Officially' releasing their jersey until after our game was released so they are not included.

We are looking at providing jersey updates for the PC version after the season starts.

We have the exact same type of questions here everyday too...is there anything that can be done to encourage EA to post in the forums? How about setting up a handful of accounts with moderator type privileges and emailing EA and saying "Here you go...you are more than welcome to post in our forums...we would be extremely pleased if you could join us etc etc etc." I know Tim has an account but how about other EA people...maybe collectively they could find time to post a few things.

I know historically some people on this site have had trouble letting things go...if an NBA Live representative said something like "We are looking at providing jersey updates for the PC version after the season starts" and then the updates didn't happen...we'd never hear the end of it. Maybe that is why EA doesn't want to post here? From what I see in the Thunderpuck forums anything that Dave Warfield (he posts as Snooper) posts in the forums is very well received. Even some of the more EA bashing type threads that Dave Warfield posts in end up with a "That makes sense Dave...I didn't realize that...thanks" type response from the community.

I know this subject has been discussed before...but now we can see that community interaction with EA does happen and does work. Perhaps we can learn something from the Thunderpuck community that will benefit the NBA Live community? So...Andrew and EA (and anyone else), what are your thoughts on this?

[Tony]

Tim used to post a lot on the old black NLSC board, but then his comments backfired on him, he promised something, and EA didn't deliver (regarding a Live2001 patch, if my memory serves me right).

So, obviously, a lot of people were pissed off, and he hasn't really been around much since then, since he'd just get bashing here.

It's nice to see that the NHL series fans are getting some love, though personally I'd be happier to see EA show some support for the Live fans too. There hasn't been much involvment from them, that's for sure.

[Andrew]

I don't think offering members of the production team admin/moderator accounts would provide more incentive to post. You've already hit the nail on the head - given the history of the community, if an EA rep was to post here they'd get flamed.

What happened with Tim and the official patch for NBA Live 2001 that fell through was unfortunate, and certainly not Tim's fault. But people accused him of being a sellout, of no longer being "one of us", of turning his back on the people who "helped him get (his) job at EA" and so on and so forth. Such accustations and attacks do not encourage the production team to post in forums outside the EA boards.

I think if we can be a little more mature about discussing NBA Live and a little friendlier towards EA (more constructive criticism, less immature attacks and insults), we might be able to get that interaction.

[BIG GREEN]

I made a thread about this in the live 2004 board sometime back. I doubt we can do anything at all..but we can dream :?

[DR. P]

I made a thread about this in the live 2004 board sometime back. I doubt we can do anything at all..but we can dream :?

Thug,

I believe EA would be out of their minds to not give fan sites at least a passing glance every now and then. With production teams of less than 100, how many new ideas can be generated on their own (realistically speaking) without input from what they see on fan sites. I think EA is a "silent partner" if you will in not only looking at fan sites but incorporating some of the ideas that appear in the wishlists. And its no mystery that many of the ideas posted on this site, and others, appear in the game on a yearly basis. It just that not ALL of the recommendations are utilized, but clearly some are. For instance, people have been wanting a "Dynasty Mode" in the live series for a while and now we have it with a real draft according to the promos. So someone's taking this stuff we suggest and jotting it down. Perhaps we don't have an explicit "working" relationship with the creative team as the NHL game appears to have (as indicated by the initial post) but I'd bet more than the farm that someone on their creative team or in their clique is using this resource more often than many of us would believe.

Best,

P

[Andrew]

Well put P. Great to see you in the forum again!

[Nick]

That was a sad instance with Tim, but if that's the reason why they don't join our forums, then they should join straight away, no need to be scared of us. I don't think it will happen again, we learned a lesson from it and we have matured as a board (well...can't speak for everybody...) but most people here would be able to interact with maturity to EA folk, and discuss how to make the game better. Andrew would bounce on top of flames before they arise anyway. We can garuntee them that. They could even have their own little ranking "EA Representitive", and we would treat them with respect.

Dr.P is right, we can pretty much be right in assuming that EA folk browse through the forums. But we need some sort of contact with them, can't they see we go nuts without it? we need answers, Andrew can't message everything. Even if it's just 1-5 posts every month.

If they're reading this, then take note of it!

I'm glad you posted this DANet.

[DANet]

There is a saying:

"You don't know what you've got until it's gone"

I think the members of the community who have been around for a while understand exactly what that saying means...and would act with respect towards EA if they decided to come back to the community. The newer members don't know the past history and therefor don't have any of these "grudges"...

Protecting the EA reps from attacks falls on the shoulders of the moderators...which is why I suggested giving the EA reps moderator type privileges so they are better equipped to defend themselves. I really don't think that the situation would come to that however. And if the NHL community can coexist with EA and we can't...well...let's just say I'd be extremely disappointed.

I don't doubt for an instant that EA reads these forums...but they are not going to post anything if they have to sign up for an account and then wait for the account to be activated. And even then, with no special status proving it is an EA rep everyone would question the validity of their statements...thinking it is a 13 year old kid trying make us look like fools. If they had an account already in place then maybe when someone posts "Is the game coming on 2 CD's" on the day that they happen to visit they might be inclined to reply...

Tim is an Associate producer but he is only one person and it's not really fair to expect him to be our only contact...the Live team consists of an Executive Producer, a Senior producer, a Producer, two Associate producers, and four Assistant producers...most of whom are new since the days of NBA Live 2001...between the nine of them I'm sure they can find some time to make a few posts in the forums.

I felt I had to make this post because I was totally surprised (and jealous) of the NHL community to see that they had two-way working relationship with EA...and I just thought it was time we took some steps to try and establish/mend a relationship of our own with EA...

[Andrew]

I know exactly what you mean DANet. Perhaps if the forum as a whole can show members of the production team that they will be treated fairly and that interaction would be most appreciated and not greeted by immature flames and insults, we might see some EA reps posting.

Protecting the EA reps from attacks falls on the shoulders of the moderators...which is why I suggested giving the EA reps moderator type privileges so they are better equipped to defend themselves. I really don't think that the situation would come to that however.

The problem is, "moderator" is a public title. People would assume the members of the production team would have the same responsibilities as the forum's moderators. As the admin, I would certainly see that the mods and I prevent immature EA bashing, and sort constructive criticism from juvenile flames. But no matter what the method, you are right - steps would need to be taken to ensure EA reps are treated with the appropriate respect.

I felt I had to make this post because I was totally surprised (and jealous) of the NHL community to see that they had two-way working relationship with EA...and I just thought it was time we took some steps to try and establish/mend a relationship of our own with EA...

Definitely. I think those of us who hold a grudge because of the incident regarding the Live 2001 patch need to put it behind us. First of all, it was completely out of line to lay all the blame on Tim. Most importantly, if people are going to greet every post from an EA rep with "Yeah, right, like we'd believe anything you say ", then guys like Tim aren't going to want to interact with us.

[Nick]

Protecting the EA reps from attacks falls on the shoulders of the moderators...which is why I suggested giving the EA reps moderator type privileges so they are better equipped to defend themselves. I really don't think that the situation would come to that however.

The problem is, "moderator" is a public title. People would assume the members of the production team would have the same responsibilities as the forum's moderators. As the admin, I would certainly see that the mods and I prevent immature EA bashing, and sort constructive criticism from juvenile flames. But no matter what the method, you are right - steps would need to be taken to ensure EA reps are treated with the appropriate respect.

*Cough* Answer *Cough*...

They could even have their own little ranking "EA Representitive", and we would treat them with respect.

[Andrew]

Yes, I did see that. I don't think giving them a custom title would necessarily prevent flames and abuse. Certainly, it would help distinguish them as EA reps, but action would still have to be taken by the moderators and myself to ensure there isn't any ugliness.

[DR. P]

Well put P. Great to see you in the forum again!

Thanks for the kind words Andrew. I really appreciate it. And I really do believe that being proactive in trying to establish a relationship with EA is indeed a "good" thing. Whether it be via bouncing ideas off of Tim or some other ranking member of EA's team, is really arbitrary in my eyes as long as there is an exchange of ideas. Because frankly, if we see the types of things that we want in the game, then it doesn't really matter whom we had to converse with to get the addition, as long as the idea is added or at the very least considered. And guys like Tim are really a great asset if you ask me, seeing as how he can see things from both sides. I wasn't really around when he was a member prior to his hire, but from the things that I've heard he seemed to be the kind of guy you'd want repping this forum in EA. But that's my opinion and of course you're free to disagree.

But from what I've seen so far from the live team in particular, I'd say not only have they taken many of our ideas and really implemented them. I used to consider live 2000 my favorite, supplanting showdown, but with the additions this year I think they might have converted me. And really Live is at the vanguard of the other EA titles since Madden may sell more copies but they really seem to spurn the PC community. Things in live like being able to edit all graphic files, which should be a given, are still being begged for in the Madden series. And if the demos I've seen this year are any indication I'm certainly in line to be more impressed with Live and NCAA football than I was with what seemed like a Madden Port with a semi-new front page sports owner mode concept. Live, please don't let me down!

P

[Andrew]

And guys like Tim are really a great asset if you ask me, seeing as how he can see things from both sides. I wasn't really around when he was a member prior to his hire, but from the things that I've heard he seemed to be the kind of guy you'd want repping this forum in EA. But that's my opinion and of course you're free to disagree.

I wholeheartedly agree. If anyone could have been chosen from the community to become a part of the production team, Tim was and still is the best person for the job. His computing skills and university qualifications aside, he's also experienced in patchmaking and he's been a fan of the game for a long time.

It's no coincidence that the first Live Tim was a part of contained improvements to the little things - the ability to edit player numbers and positions (including secondary positions) in Season/Franchise/Playoff Mode, the ability to assign created players a date of birth without editing the DBF file (previously, a random one was assigned), the ability to have less than 12 players on the active roster while placing up to 3 players on the injured reserve...little things that may pass by the casual player, but a roster patchmaker would consider big.

[LegoSHAQ]

Yes Andrew patchers definately noticed the improvements made FOR patchers in 2003... hopefully 2004 goes even further and we will have a patching revolution...

[cocobee]

Yes Andrew patchers definately noticed the improvements made FOR patchers in 2003... hopefully 2004 goes even further and we will have a patching revolution...

I for one hope Tim or anyone would post here again. I too noticed the small additions and hopefully 2004 will be more patcher friendly. I'm glad the Live team allows us to patch the game to our liking, look at the Madden series. They don't want patch makers doing anything to there game graphically.

[jwin]

the madden team is pretty much held back by the nfl because of some licensing issues, and the nfl feels that some things just don't represent the nfl, like changing the bills uniforms while they are still in buffalo. but live seems to have less restrictions from the nba, and also appear to actually like the creativity added to their game. i think them interacting could happen again, but we ALL need to have some composure in how we word our opinions and ideas, and not turn to immediately complaining. but i think we also need to understand that this will add more to andrew and thug's responsibilities, and that isn't fair. if every member of this site would welcome the idea, then every member should also be responsible for conducting themselves in a way that will not jeopardize ea's interaction. whether or not that would happen only each member could determine. and even if it is not an official site rule, it has to be an accepted unspoken rule. but can everyone stick to it? it won't take much for ea to pull away again if they are getting bashed, then it might cause a big dissension among those who crossed the line, and those who benefitted from it. we would all need to be together on this in order to make sure that we keep those line open.

[Andrew]

Yohance and I would have no problem being firm with troublemakers - attacking EA reps that post in the forum would carry the same penalties as attacking anyone who posts in the forum (though we might be a little harsher with less warning, given past incidents).

But you're right - the forum as a whole would have to conduct themselves in a way that makes EA reps welcome and encourages them to interact with us.

[Nick]

So, what are we going to do about it? Contact EA? or Tim? Tell them to visit?

[Andrew]

Wait until NBA Live 2004 is released, then we'll see.

[endofanera]

If EA rep's don't want to post here because they are scared of being flamed over their product then that should tell them something. Shouldn't it?

If some EA reps registered here and humbly told the community "that we want to make the best basketball game period, so tell us what you want." I think that they would get an excellent reception. Of course there would be trouble makers but they can be dealt with. But for them to do that, several things would have to happen. First they would have to care, which they don't. Secondly, they would have to become accountable for design decisions, which they won't do and finally they would have to be willing to take some heat.

If they come and post here with this garbage ivory tower mentality then people are going to react to it in a negative way. If they come wanting to be part of the community and actually communicate <GASP> with their customers they would be treated extremely well.

Tim seems like a decent bloke, but if he can't take critisism then maybe a creative field is not the career he is best suited too.

Nobody forces him to read unconstructive flaming. He can ignore it. But instead he took his ball and went home.

[Nick]

You're asking for the world there mate.

They don't nessaseraly (lol...huge spell check needed! ) need to discuss how to make the game the best with us. lol. you and i both know that's not gonna happen, but even just the jodd post would be great.

For example, they could give us the reason why NBA Live 2004 on PC is being delayed, we'd all be so grateful and we can calm down.

That's all I need to be satisfied.

[endofanera]

I agree, I want the world in that regard.

Even if someone would post here and make announcements, that would be a massive step foward.

[jwin]

it wouldn't be realistic to think they could come here and take ideas for the game and then run back and start implementing them. but if they could give feedback on what they can get into the game, and also why some things they may not be able to work with right now then that's a step forward. but to flame or start criticizing isn't doing any good whatsoever except to those that feel the need to vent or rant. ea really isn't obligated to put out anymore than a product that people want to buy. adding new feature's or reworking the game to make it more realistic is more indicative of their desire to sell as many units as possible. but the bottom line is if they put out what they feel is the best game they could have with whatever restrictions or budgets they have to deal with, that pretty much fulfills what they are obligated to do. and i think to an extent they do care, most of the reason people are disappointed with the things that fail to meet their expectations is because ea started giving things to expect in the first place. wasn't lakers vs. celtics or bulls vs. lakers only playoff teams when it first came out, along with the david robinson windmill dunk from outside the paint, but as years went on the game became more realistic and people expect more realism with every new year, but i'm sure there are still problems they have that we just don't know about. and as far as criticism, there is still a better way to do it than what many ea reps for different games have had to deal with. one guy who works on the madden team posted a thread for all the issues that people had with the game, and also asked for their pc system info to get information for what might benefit all types of computers in a patch, after maybe a page of replies about real problems, people started complaining about their disappointment because of things like they couldn't stop the cpu from passing even though they blitz on every down and how ea sucks and puts out garbage. why should anyone have to keep reading through post after post of that. because they care that much and want to make the game better, though for all the reaching out they may have tried they get crucified for it. they may be big EA, but the ones who do reach out to communities and gamers are every day people with jobs like many who visit here. and if you've been around any forum long enough you know how everyday people can go overboard just when they disagree on something. or even better, when someone makes the ever so critical spelling error. they get fed up like anyone else, and as long as there are people still buying their games, why take the abuse?

[BIG GREEN]

Im sure you make interesting points my friend...but my eyes hurt trying to read unparagraphed essays :D

[Stevan]

LOL, it's like looking at one of those funny pictures, where if you concentrate too hard you start seeing a seperate image developing

I think it would be nice to have some kind of relationship with the felas at EA, but unfortunately that leaves them open to criticism, which is going to happen regardless of how good/bad the game is.

If EA start posting here... I'll bet Black Smurf will make a comeback too