NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby stereoxide on Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:48 pm

Classic JaVale. :lol: :lol:
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby Spree#8 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:08 pm

ET with the game winner in overtime after sucking for pretty much all of 4th quarter and overtime before that shot. It didn't help Jrue was fouled out. Take that, Celtics.

Wonder how badly we'll lose tomorrow.
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby S_Brat on Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:38 pm

i find it ridiculous how much the refs favor the home team in this sport..... you never see this bull crap in the nfl..... two fricken games in a row... frustrates me
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby Spree#8 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:52 pm

Not so much in Philly-Boston game. Just like every Philly-Boston game, the Celtics were all over the Sixers on defense and then you have touch or phantom fouls on the other end. However, the Sixers shot more free throws (1 more, to be exact). No idea when was the last time that happened.
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby Phil89 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:55 pm

Westbrook with 27 points and 5 assists at half time against the Lakers. 5-7 from 3pt.

Love it when he's on his game like this. :bowdown2:
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby Kenny on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:32 pm

JaVale had an awesome game (even with that hilarious blunder). 20 points off 9/9 shooting. The four Nuggets bench players outscored the starting 5.

EDIT: 3 of them actually. Jordan Hamilton didn't score any points.
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby shadowgrin on Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:06 pm

Andrew wrote:While I understand that point of view and can't entirely disagree - if you don't want a weakness being exploited, do what you can to eliminate or minimise that weakness - it doesn't change the fact that it's not playing the game as intended, quickly and deliberately committing an infraction on every play outside of a stop-the-clock crunch time situation.

Not practicing/making your FTs can be considered not playing the game as intended either.
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby JaoSming on Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:42 pm

this is why I love Javale
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby Dc311 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:28 am

Nothing spectacular but sill cool to see him doing this.


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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby rise on Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:51 am

Phil89 wrote:
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I've probably watched this about 30 times since yesterday. :lol:
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby Andrew on Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:28 pm

McGee's blunder is a fine example of trying to do too much outside of your strengths. He may fancy himself as having Magic Johnson-like abilities and tendencies, but I think the rest of us would respectfully disagree.

shadowgrin wrote:
Andrew wrote:While I understand that point of view and can't entirely disagree - if you don't want a weakness being exploited, do what you can to eliminate or minimise that weakness - it doesn't change the fact that it's not playing the game as intended, quickly and deliberately committing an infraction on every play outside of a stop-the-clock crunch time situation.

Not practicing/making your FTs can be considered not playing the game as intended either.


An inability to make free throws points to lack of skill and possibly a lack of dedication to one's craft. Not making your free throws doesn't mean you aren't playing the game properly, it just means you're not playing it (or at least one particular facet of it) very well. Not trying to do anything about it suggests a poor work ethic and/or bad practice habits, but again that isn't a case of not playing the game as intended. It's definitely not the same as constantly and immediately fouling a player without the ball, who may not be anywhere near the play, in order to turn the game into a free throw derby.
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby Dc311 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:13 pm

This is from last nights game against the Rockets.I forget that he can do this.



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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby NovU on Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:16 pm

Andrew wrote:
shadowgrin wrote:
Andrew wrote:While I understand that point of view and can't entirely disagree - if you don't want a weakness being exploited, do what you can to eliminate or minimise that weakness - it doesn't change the fact that it's not playing the game as intended, quickly and deliberately committing an infraction on every play outside of a stop-the-clock crunch time situation.

Not practicing/making your FTs can be considered not playing the game as intended either.


An inability to make free throws points to lack of skill and possibly a lack of dedication to one's craft. Not making your free throws doesn't mean you aren't playing the game properly, it just means you're not playing it (or at least one particular facet of it) very well. Not trying to do anything about it suggests a poor work ethic and/or bad practice habits, but again that isn't a case of not playing the game as intended. It's definitely not the same as constantly and immediately fouling a player without the ball, who may not be anywhere near the play, in order to turn the game into a free throw derby.

This entire ordeal is only an issue because it's the Lakers. Thousand of players have gone through the same system, and it's not like this is the first time it's being exploited. I would hate it if they now do something about it. Let Dwight Howard alone deal with it, not the rest of the league.
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby shadowgrin on Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:47 pm

Andrew wrote:An inability to make free throws points to lack of skill and possibly a lack of dedication to one's craft. Not making your free throws doesn't mean you aren't playing the game properly, it just means you're not playing it (or at least one particular facet of it) very well. Not trying to do anything about it suggests a poor work ethic and/or bad practice habits, but again that isn't a case of not playing the game as intended. It's definitely not the same as constantly and immediately fouling a player without the ball, who may not be anywhere near the play, in order to turn the game into a free throw derby.

Same can be said to hacking an offball player constantly. They are not playing one facet of the game very well (defense) so they can gain possession back faster and execute their offense (lol D'Antoni).
It may not be pretty and what most fans don't want to see but you can't blame the fouling team for taking advantage of a weakness in the opposing team repeatedly.
Rules change, players adjust. Tactics and strategy change, players adjust. That is playing the game as intended. If you really want the game to be played as intended make dribbling illegal, eliminate the shotclock, and bring back the peach baskets instead of rims and nets.
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby bowdown on Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:13 pm

Surprised Bonner didnt get a T on that for putting his ballsack in the air like that. Refs have pretty low tolerance for pull ups on the rim
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby Andrew on Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:28 pm

shadowgrin wrote:Same can be said to hacking an offball player constantly. They are not playing one facet of the game very well (defense) so they can gain possession back faster and execute their offense (lol D'Antoni).


A cheap tactic that doesn't involve making a play on the ball is not the same as simply not being particularly good at a particular facet of the game, though granted the former may occur as a result of the latter.

shadowgrin wrote:It may not be pretty and what most fans don't want to see but you can't blame the fouling team for taking advantage of a weakness in the opposing team repeatedly.


As long as the rules allow for something, sure, it's a legitimate tactic. I don't like that players can pivot into a defender to draw the foul and then chuck up a shot as the whistle is being blown to get a shooting foul call and free throws, but as long as they're calling the game that way, it's a heads-up move by the offensive player. However, I think that's something that should be a changed, a loophole that should be closed, same as Hack-a-Shaq/Howard/whomever.
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby NovU on Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:30 pm

I don't see how it's a cheap tactic or a loophole. It's not a guaranteed to work strategy but a risky one. It always has been a part of the game and as grin pointed out, players and teams have always adjusted to the situations. I personally enjoy it and its countering tactics. Even this season, I remember some team doing it to Griffin/Jordan and Clippers, and they punished them for doing it so. All teams been going through it and I don't see how this all of sudden has to be a mega issue to be corrected.

Ultimately, it's Dwight that's handling it miserably, NOT the opposing teams.
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby shadowgrin on Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:21 pm

Andrew wrote:A cheap tactic that doesn't involve making a play on the ball

It's cheap just because it doesn't involve the ball and gives the fouled player a chance to shoot an open unguarded shot in the game?
Might as well not allow defenders to deny the ball from offball offensive players if not making a play on the ball is considered cheap.
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby Andrew on Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:32 pm

You enjoy seeing poor free throw shooters being immediately fouled away from the ball, bringing the game to a grinding halt for free throws every trip up the floor? To each their own I guess; personally I prefer the game to be a bit more free flowing than that.

It's a cheap tactic because instead of actually playing through the possession and playing defense, you're just immediately fouling away from the ball to send a poor free throw shooter to the line, hoping they'll miss both attempts so that you can get the rebound. The rules currently allow you to do that up until the last two minutes of the quarter, which is the loophole. Criticism for this is nothing new, it hasn't suddenly become an issue that needs to be fixed. They've taken steps to curb it in the past - the aforementioned two minute rule - now they want to curb it further. Fair call, I say.

shadowgrin wrote:It's cheap just because it doesn't involve the ball and gives the fouled player a chance to shoot an open unguarded shot in the game?
Might as well not allow defenders to deny the ball from offball offensive players if not making a play on the ball is considered cheap.


Oh come on, that's a ridiculous comparison. That's not even close to being the same thing and you know it.
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby koberulz on Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:36 pm

Watched the opening montage in that video, and 99% of those fouls should be no-calls.
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby shadowgrin on Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:54 pm

Andrew wrote:You enjoy seeing poor free throw shooters being immediately fouled away from the ball, bringing the game to a grinding halt for free throws every trip up the floor? To each their own I guess; personally I prefer the game to be a bit more free flowing than that.

Nope and I'm sure the coaches of the fouled team don't enjoy it either. Either take out the poor FT shooter, make him learn how to shoot his FTs, or play better defense when the fouling team gets possession of the ball.

Andrew wrote:It's a cheap tactic because instead of actually playing through the possession and playing defense, you're just immediately fouling away from the ball to send a poor free throw shooter to the line, hoping they'll miss both attempts so that you can get the rebound.

Exactly. It's not a guarantee that the FT shooter will miss all the time nor that the fouling team can get the rebound. There's a risk involved so it can't be dismissed as 'cheap'. Also, the fouling team still has to make its own baskets when they have the ball. It's not like the fouled team is completely helpless against the 'cheap' tactic. They can and should make the FTs and they can still play defense to give themselves a chance of getting the W.

Andrew wrote:Oh come on, that's a ridiculous comparison. That's not even close to being the same thing and you know it.

It's as ridiculous as calling something cheap just because it doesn't 'look good' to watch or comparing it to an offensive flop like most shooters do.


I do agree that it slows down the game like how some games crawl near the final minutes with a foulfest to keep the score close but I don't dismiss it as cheap just because it's not aesthetically pleasing. As much as I enjoy seeing a 'free-flowing' game I also enjoy how teams would counter each other's plans in securing the win. If I only wanted to watch a free-flowing game then I'd just watch D-League games instead.
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby NovU on Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:43 pm

I guess at this point, the discussion only needs me to go back to my usual hating.

Andrew wrote:Criticism for this is nothing new, it hasn't suddenly become an issue that needs to be fixed.

Of course but let's not act like this criticism would have arised on a surface this big if it wasn't for one single superstar from the Lakers going 7/18(hence a couple losses), which in my opinion Dwight and his team have to deal with just like all past players/teams did.

Andrew wrote:They've taken steps to curb it in the past - the aforementioned two minute rule - now they want to curb it further. Fair call, I say.

I honestly can't say what's cheaper. The teams that foul intentionally or the league giving superstar player/team a special treatment all of sudden now that it's become a bigger issue. But hey, thx Dwight for going for 7/18 on ft. Future generation can suck all they want and don't need to practice hard from a charity line and still won't have to suffer like Shaq did!

Ultimately I'd rather have Dwight and Lakers handling this in their own power than borrowing the league's hands. I am personally more interested to see what the Lakers are gonna do about this than to see the rule changes. Maybe the Lakers can bring free flowing game back by themselves... or the league does it for them.
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby Solaris Phase Two on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:58 am

Atlanta Hawks having a decent season
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby Andrew on Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:05 am

shadowgrin wrote:I do agree that it slows down the game like how some games crawl near the final minutes with a foulfest to keep the score close but I don't dismiss it as cheap just because it's not aesthetically pleasing. As much as I enjoy seeing a 'free-flowing' game I also enjoy how teams would counter each other's plans in securing the win. If I only wanted to watch a free-flowing game then I'd just watch D-League games instead.


If we can't agree on the "cheap" description then sure, perhaps "ugly" is a fair and agreeable term.

Even so, that doesn't mean the league shouldn't do something about it. Dribbling out a huge amount of the clock for a 19-18 victory was once a legitimate tactic and in theory, could've been countered by equally legitimate tactics. In reality though, it wasn't great sport, leading to the invention of the shot clock and basketball basically being saved. Now, this isn't quite as drastic or big a threat to the game as that was, don't get me wrong, but I'm fine with the league adopting the stance of "This isn't great basketball, let's do something about it" when it comes to this issue.

NovU wrote:Of course but let's not act like this criticism would have arised on a surface this big if it wasn't for one single superstar from the Lakers going 7/18(hence a couple losses), which in my opinion Dwight and his team have to deal with just like all past players/teams did.


NovU wrote:Ultimately I'd rather have Dwight and Lakers handling this in their own power than borrowing the league's hands. I am personally more interested to see what the Lakers are gonna do about this than to see the rule changes. Maybe the Lakers can bring free flowing game back by themselves... or the league does it for them.


It's not just Howard that's affected or involved though. Of course, he is obviously the most prominent example.
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Re: NBA Random Discussion 2012-13 Season

Postby Andrew on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:55 pm

Bobcats president Rod Higgins waives son

That'd be a tough conversation to have.
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