Dirk Nowitzki for Kobe?

So the mavs have said he is untouchable. Yesterday they said they wouldnt trade him for kobe. Is this as bad of a non deal as the lakers pulling out of a bynum for jason kidd deal? Dirk is a top player, dont get me wrong, but he chokes in the playoffs. Kobe, has 3 rings, actually can make his team mates better, can play good defense, and lead his team to a win in crunch time. Dirk is a big man though, and they are hard to come by in the nba, especially at his talent level. But he is more like a giant small forward then a PF/C. Dirk for Kobe straight up is a deal for the mavs. The bad part of that deal is they have Terry, Harris, Howard, Jones, Stackhouse, George, Hassell, Ager who all play SG/SF. So they are overloaded at that spot. And they would lose depth at PF. If they did do the deal who would they start? Terry, Kobe, Howard, Dampier or Diop at center. The power forward spot is open to the likes of George, Jamal Sampson, Darvin Ham, Brandon Bass. Not too impressive. The only way the Mavs benefit from this deal is if they get a big man in the deal with Kobe, or go with a 4 guard 1 center lineups, which i dont know if it would work too well. So while Dirk for Kobe looks good on paper for the mavs, it doesnt really look that well when you break it down.

assuming such a deal went down, they could survive with Howard @ the PF at least for the regular season. They would eventually need a big man that can defend, but with the arrival of Kobe they have enough chips to part with to get someone of value......Terry, Stack, Ager all have some value....

I would NEVER want Dirk on the Lakers. He is not self-sufficient, plays no D, and chokes big time.

I agree with LR24, If such a trade was offered, I would tell the Mavericks to add more role player/s.

They might be able to get lucky and add terry for odom or something like that, so they could actually get a PF in return. If this deal happens, which I doubt, it seems to me that Dallas would be much more likely if they got a PF like Brian Cook or Kwame Brown or Ronny Turiaf or maybe Chris Mihm in return if they decided to add a piece to the trade.

This talk is already dead.Mark Cuban said he doesnt want to trade dirk.I saw it yesterday. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post ... =nba,49930

HA! You guys have been shot down by Dwyane! In your face! It's Dwyane we're talking about here, shutting you down! HAHA!

What do you expect? He's not a 7 time MVP for nothing.

Too bad he recently retired his fantastic career.

Why would i spend my precious time on a boring leauge when i can log on to a good forum and to enjoy cooking.

Last edited by McDwyane on Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think it's pretty silly to compare not making a Dirk-for-Kobe swap to not making a Bynum-for-Kidd swap....

Dirk is an MVP & a future HOF....it's not a gimme like trading a bum (relatively) like Bynum for a future HOF in Kidd....Dirk has meant a lot to the Mavericks' franchise & I think it's great for the league to have Cuban saying that he won't deal him....hopefully he can see his entire career out for the one team, which is a rarity these days....

as for the choking of Dirk, yeah, I don't think you can't argue that....could be partly due to system that the Mavs play or just the player he is....but it's not like Kobe has carried his team past the 1st Round the last few years....frankly, Mavs minus Dirk & plus Kobe is not as good as the Spurs or Suns IMHO....

good non-trade by Mavs it would just send them sideways or one step back....it's kinda like the Bulls trading Deng & Gordon for Kobe....doesn't make sense....

Kobe, has 3 rings, actually can make his team mates better

I found that kind of suprising. I don't think anyone on that Lakers team has made any sort of progression with Bryant taking the majority of the shots on offence.

The OP isnt about if they can make a deal, its just putting the deal in perspective, and why it probably wont happen.

Its asdf, Kobe actually tried for a while to get his team involved, they suck, so he said screw you, im going to win the games by myself. He has a better shot at winning games by hogging the ball, instead of kicking the ball out to someone like radmanovic just so he can brick a shot.

The OP isnt about if they can make a deal, its just putting the deal in perspective, and why it probably wont happen.

Its asdf, Kobe actually tried for a while to get his team involved, they suck, so he said screw you, im going to win the games by myself. He has a better shot at winning games by hogging the ball, instead of kicking the ball out to someone like radmanovic just so he can brick a shot.

If Steve Nash was kicking it out to Radmanovic, I'm sure he would make that shot....it's not just about passing the ball to teammates, it's about having faith in them to make the play....he doesn't seem to....I'm sure players around him might second guess themselves & pass it back to Kobe rather than believing in themselves....it's a shame the team doesn't utilise Odom more....I think he's the key to the Lakers' chances this season....

Its asdf, Kobe actually tried for a while to get his team involved, they suck, so he said screw you, im going to win the games by myself. He has a better shot at winning games by hogging the ball, instead of kicking the ball out to someone like radmanovic just so he can brick a shot.

Doesn't that prove my point? He's not making his crappy teammates better at all.

Once MJ started putting some trust in his teammates, the team was more successful....Luc Longley, Steve Kerr, Randy Brown, Jud Buechler

MJ trusting in Jud Buechler, Longley and Randy Brown was the key to Chicago's success? Now I've heard it all.

Phil Jackson told Kobe to go on that scoring run late in the season. It was well documented, and with the injuries to Lakers they needed it.

MJ trusting in Jud Buechler, Longley and Randy Brown was the key to Chicago's success? Now I've heard it all.

Phil Jackson told Kobe to go on that scoring run late in the season. It was well documented, and with the injuries to Lakers they needed it.

I said they were more successful, I did not say it was the key to Chicago's success....

Once MJ started putting some trust in his teammates, the team was more successful....Luc Longley, Steve Kerr, Randy Brown, Jud Buechler

a star player having trust in his teammates does usually result in more team success....aside from the other role players mentioned above, MJ also learnt to trust the likes of Pippen, Horace Grant & Kukoc....

Did Jordan ever not share the ball with Randy brown, kerr and longley?

To pin the Lakers faults on Kobe for not passing the ball is ridiculous.

no, of course not....it's only one aspect of the game....it doesn't factor interior defence (nothing to do with Kobe), ongoing injuries to Odom (who I believe is key to the team's success, of course Kobe is main key, but that goes without saying, he needs support) & so on....all that being said, I could see Kobe putting more faith in his teammates last season than previously....

All the Lakers with the exception of Kobe are inconsistent offensively.

It's not Kobe's job to be a nice guy or to make these guys hit open shots. Kobe is a competitive player (and believe it or not a winner) and it's his job to win games.

If players like Smush, Radmonovic, Bynum are missing shots then of course Kobe will try to take over to give his team the best opportunity to win.

I can't see how his competitiveness is viewed as a negative as this is a sport.

But you look at the careers of some nba players on the lakers. Kwame Brown has played quite well at times around Kobe. Smush Parker at times was effective. Derek Fisher in 2001. Chris Mihm in 2006.

Kobe isn't a cancer on his teammates.

I expect Derek Fisher to definitely help the team....I've always like Maurice Evans, he's a good backup....Farmar is a pretty solid backup, so the backcourt is pretty sweet....but the team definitely needs a healthy & in-form Odom, Walton, Mihm, Turiaf & Brown to have a chance....

Well if it is not Kobe´s fault when the Lakers miss to go further than the 1st round, why is it Dirk´s fault when the Mavs cant do so ? I mean you all say that Dirk has the way better team mates, but where have they been in the Playoffs .....

I hate this "player xy is choking in Playoffs" especially when it comes to Dirk who totally dominated in the Playoffs two years ago (remember the Spurs and Suns series ?)

I dont think that it would be a good deal for both teams.
While the Lakers should try to get a 2nd scoring option next to Kobe (and I mean a real scoring threat .. Odom is too unselfish although I love him playing), the Mavs do not need any trade right now ... especially not an All Star PF for an All Star SG .. since they have Terry and Howard.

I remember when Phil Jackson whined about the length of a NBA Season, he said they should shorten it to 80 or less games, saying that 82 is too long and really worns out the body of the players, he basically have said this because of the injuries that plagued the Lakers, but if everyone will stay healthy this season, I don't see why they can't be the 4th best team in the Western Conference.

I remember when Phil Jackson whined about the length of a NBA Season, he said they should shorten it to 80 or less games, saying that 82 is too long and really worns out the body of the players, he basically have said this because of the injuries that plagued the Lakers, but if everyone will stay healthy this season, I don't see why they can't be the 4th best team in the Western Conference.

I like idea of 59 game season....play your division foes four times per season (24 games), your non-division conference foes twice per season (20 games) & your non-conference foes once per season (15 games)....that's 59 games....it places increased emphasis on beating up division rivals, & to a lesser extent conference rivals....if you play a non-conference team one year on the road, next year you play them at home....it only knocks 23 games off the season....season could be slightly shortened & rather than a game every 2 nights it could be a game every 3 nights....would probably reduce injuries, every game means that much more & so on....I'm also a fan of 3-5-5-7 playoff format....I guess I've played too much dynasty....

all that being said, it will never happen as those 23 games are big money earners & players wouldn't want to take pay cuts for shorter seasons....it's a shame though from a fan's perspective....

don't mind me though, I'm just a bit apathetic when it comes to sports, with most codes playing 8-9 months per year & the other few months is international bball, summer camps & pre-season, with maybe a 2 week break from mid-to-late June....

keen to hear other people's perspectives on the matter....