How would you rank the 30 starting centers' defensive game?

[gergerjai]

For sure Camby and Ben will top the list...
And I think the worst could be Primoz Brezec...
I have no idea how others are rank though, but Battie, PJ and Kwame Brown, Dalembert, Kurt Thomas( though not playing now) and Ratliff are some better defenders to me.
How would you rank?

[Its_asdf]

Eddy Curry. I honestly think that guy will collpase if he spends two seconds actually trying to run back to play defence.

[samson1028]

Well eddy is a good defender, he just have to say to the opponent "you bang into me, and i'll collpase into you!"

HAHAHAHA

[gergerjai]

Yeah he could be good if there were no such thing as 3-second violation

[TRUball]

Yeah he could be good if there were no such thing as 3-second violation

Tell that to Kwame. I swear he get's atleast 3 or 4 of those a game.

[Fenix]

Darko has to be up there in the upper echelon of defensive Cs, although he isn't a starter and he shouldn't count by your definition. He has quick feet an majority of his blocks come from man-to-man defense.

[gergerjai]

Yeah he could be good if there were no such thing as 3-second violation

Tell that to Kwame. I swear he get's atleast 3 or 4 of those a game.

yeah I read it that he is somewhere like 11st, but Curry LEADS the league. So he's still the most dominant center in some aspects.

[KIG1]

How about one of the worst being Zaza Pachulia who doesnt even average 0.5 blocks a game.

[Fenix]

So fucking what? Stats don't mean a shit. Rasheed Wallace is a lousy rebounder and only an above average blocker, but he's still one of the best post defenders around. Same with Kwame. (But Pachulia is a bad defender, don't get me wrong.)

[KIG1]

I knew he was a bad defender, I was just bringing up an interesting stat about some of his defense. He doesnt have the strength to become a great defending C.

[Fresh8]

Kwame is a good low post presence on D that stats won't prove to you. Pity I can't say the same for offence apart from giving up shots to Kobe and others.

[gergerjai]

Pachulia is not a good defender but I dont think he is as bad as Brezec, and I have seen him help shut down other team's big guys for a few times, needing the help of some double teams though.

[Fitzy]

my man Krstic has pretty good defense, but it could be alot better

[Fenix]

A lot better. But still, one of the most underrated big men out there. If they could only get an athletic shotblocker/rebounder to play with him. Anyone else thinks that Nets would be a lot more suitable for Stromile Swift than are Rockets?

[Laxation]

Dalembert may get blocks, but ask most philly supporters and they wont shut up about his lousy defence.

[Fenix]

Yeah, he just uses his athleticsm to get weakside blocks, but he doesn't stay in front of his man or holds his position when being posted up.

[Fitzy]

A lot better. But still, one of the most underrated big men out there. If they could only get an athletic shotblocker/rebounder to play with him. Anyone else thinks that Nets would be a lot more suitable for Stromile Swift than are Rockets?

i think they would, they need a decent PF

[weltmann]

Dalembert may get blocks, but ask most philly supporters and they wont shut up about his lousy defence.

The same thing is with Ratliff. Even thou he blocks many shots yet he isn't a good defensive player. Lazy ass...

[Cloudy]

Wow, nobody mentioned Yao. He's not that bad...
Boris Diaw is a good center...

[Laxation]

Boris Diaw is rated 90 for def aware in 06... he must be doing something right

[gergerjai]

Boris Diaw is rated 90 for def aware in 06

Thats a bit high, isnt it?
I was like OMG when he shut down Yao with almost 1' height difference, but then the very next time Yao toyed him. Though he would be my pick on DPOY if its about guarding every position.

[cklitsie]

How about Dan Gadzuric? He's underrated as well, stuck behind Magloire and Bogut on the bench..
With the Bucks, the center has a really important task since most of their (smaller) players can't defend for shit, Gaduric used to do really well playing help defense. He's just got screwed over with the whole contract/Magliore-trade situation.

[benji]

Dan Gadzuric is underrated and he's better than Magloire. With them starting Bogut there's no need to bother with Magloire, especially since he's not scoring anyway, Gadzuric's all around game would help them a lot more.

I read it that he is somewhere like 11st,

Heh. 11st.

How would you rank?

So I saw your challenge and took it.

I went through every "starting center" and gathered up their defensive stats and rankings. Whether or not the player is the starting center or even a center is subjective in some cases but some guys were either mentioned in this thread or I just included them for whatever reason.

I did the last four years by average, as well as this season. I will eliminate all players who didn't play in four years play 1000 minutes or 15 mpg, or so far this season 500 minutes.

First I will be listing all of the four year averages. (Or two or three years depending on the player.) Along with the descriptions, then I will just list this years without description after I'm through them all.

The first measure is stop %. A stop is considered a missed field goal or turnover forced, plus steals and blocks, minus fouls. All are weighted based on their possession value and then placed over counterpart floor possessions. Though not entirely accurate you could consider a 60.0 to say the guy gets a stop on 60% of possessions if that would help.

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wallace,ben   70.4   
mourning,alonzo   68.3   
camby,marcus   67.9   
ratliff,theo   67.8   
dalembert,samuel   65.4   
diop,desagna   65.1   
foyle,adonal   63.2   
nesterovic,rasho   61.7   
haywood,brendan   60.8   
przybilla,joel   60.4   
o'neal,shaquille   60.0   
elson,francisco   58.5   
o'neal,jermaine   57.8   
chandler,tyson   57.7   
collins,jason   57.4   
ming,yao   57.3   
dampier,erick   57.2   
ilgauskas,zydrunas   57.2   
wright,lorenzen   56.1   
blount,mark   55.1   
battie,tony   54.0   
perkins,kendrick   53.8   
magloire,jamaal   53.7   
pachulia,zaza   53.1   
foster,jeff   53.1   
brown,kwame   52.8   
mihm,chris   51.9   
thomas,kurt   51.8   
lafrentz,raef   51.8   
bosh,chris   51.7   
miller,brad   51.6   
kaman,chris   51.6   
okur,mehmet   51.6   
swift,robert   51.4   
collins,jarron   51.1   
brown,p.j.   50.6   
krstic,nenad   49.8   
curry,eddy   49.5   
collison,nick   46.4   
araujo,rafael   46.2   
brezec,primoz   45.7

Defensive Turnover Rate is like the offensive one, in that it sees on what percentage of possessions did the player get a turnover, in this case force one.

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collins,jarron   19.6   
elson,francisco   17.0   
collins,jason   16.8   
pachulia,zaza   16.5   
araujo,rafael   15.2   
haywood,brendan   15.1   
foster,jeff   14.7   
brezec,primoz   14.4   
miller,brad   14.3   
okur,mehmet   14.2   
nesterovic,rasho   14.2   
brown,kwame   14.2   
wright,lorenzen   14.1   
blount,mark   13.8   
dalembert,samuel   13.6   
wallace,ben   13.5   
thomas,kurt   13.4   
camby,marcus   13.3   
krstic,nenad   12.9   
bosh,chris   12.9   
lafrentz,raef   12.8   
swift,robert   12.7   
battie,tony   12.4   
ratliff,theo   12.3   
przybilla,joel   12.3   
chandler,tyson   12.3   
brown,p.j.   12.3   
diop,desagna   12.2   
foyle,adonal   12.2   
magloire,jamaal   12.2   
o'neal,jermaine   12.2   
curry,eddy   12.0   
mourning,alonzo   11.8   
dampier,erick   11.7   
collison,nick   11.7   
ming,yao   11.5   
mihm,chris   11.4   
kaman,chris   11.3   
o'neal,shaquille   11.1   
perkins,kendrick   11.0   
ilgauskas,zydrunas   10.8

Though very minute dependent, here's stops per game. (In terms of totals, Ben Wallace has 717 more stops than anyone else over the last four years.)

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wallace,ben   9.13   
o'neal,jermaine   8.44   
camby,marcus   7.54   
bosh,chris   7.33   
miller,brad   7.16   
ratliff,theo   7.13   
o'neal,shaquille   7.05   
ilgauskas,zydrunas   6.38   
brown,p.j.   6.22   
ming,yao   6.19   
thomas,kurt   5.93   
dalembert,samuel   5.89   
magloire,jamaal   5.54   
nesterovic,rasho   5.52   
chandler,tyson   5.49   
krstic,nenad   5.44   
dampier,erick   5.42   
collins,jason   5.31   
lafrentz,raef   5.24   
przybilla,joel   5.21   
haywood,brendan   5.10   
mourning,alonzo   5.01   
blount,mark   4.97   
foyle,adonal   4.97   
brown,kwame   4.94   
wright,lorenzen   4.93   
kaman,chris   4.92   
okur,mehmet   4.81   
curry,eddy   4.58   
battie,tony   4.49   
brezec,primoz   3.88   
foster,jeff   3.87   
mihm,chris   3.87   
pachulia,zaza   3.73   
collins,jarron   3.52   
elson,francisco   3.28   
diop,desagna   3.17   
collison,nick   3.10   
swift,robert   3.02   
perkins,kendrick   2.70   
araujo,rafael   1.99   

Of course, we'll do stops per 40 minutes.

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mourning,alonzo   10.29   
camby,marcus   10.13   
ratliff,theo   9.82   
wallace,ben   9.82   
foyle,adonal   9.49   
diop,desagna   9.45   
o'neal,jermaine   9.40   
dalembert,samuel   9.01   
przybilla,joel   8.90   
haywood,brendan   8.69   
chandler,tyson   8.53   
nesterovic,rasho   8.52   
lafrentz,raef   8.41   
perkins,kendrick   8.24   
ilgauskas,zydrunas   8.19   
dampier,erick   8.08   
miller,brad   8.07   
o'neal,shaquille   8.05   
bosh,chris   8.01   
blount,mark   7.93   
elson,francisco   7.87   
ming,yao   7.85   
brown,kwame   7.70   
collins,jason   7.68   
krstic,nenad   7.63   
wright,lorenzen   7.54   
battie,tony   7.50   
thomas,kurt   7.42   
brown,p.j.   7.40   
foster,jeff   7.38   
kaman,chris   7.30   
mihm,chris   7.29   
okur,mehmet   7.28   
swift,robert   7.28   
curry,eddy   7.15   
magloire,jamaal   7.09   
pachulia,zaza   7.06   
araujo,rafael   6.74   
collins,jarron   6.70   
collison,nick   6.51   
brezec,primoz   6.46

We also have floor points allowed per 100 floor possessions. Which is more of a man-to-man defense indicator than the others. Not that this will make Raptor fans feel any better about Hoffa.

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collins,jarron   72.3   
collins,jason   73.6   
nesterovic,rasho   73.7   
ming,yao   74.8   
mourning,alonzo   74.9   
ratliff,theo   75.2   
okur,mehmet   75.2   
haywood,brendan   75.3   
foster,jeff   75.4   
o'neal,jermaine   75.7   
krstic,nenad   75.9   
elson,francisco   76.2   
wright,lorenzen   76.2   
foyle,adonal   76.3   
o'neal,shaquille   76.6   
diop,desagna   77.1   
przybilla,joel   77.2   
curry,eddy   77.7   
thomas,kurt   78.0   
dampier,erick   78.0   
dalembert,samuel   78.3   
lafrentz,raef   78.5   
wallace,ben   78.6   
camby,marcus   78.9   
brown,kwame   79.0   
battie,tony   79.0   
chandler,tyson   79.2   
blount,mark   79.3   
brown,p.j.   79.7   
kaman,chris   79.7   
magloire,jamaal   80.3   
mihm,chris   80.4   
miller,brad   80.8   
bosh,chris   81.1   
ilgauskas,zydrunas   81.5   
collison,nick   82.4   
pachulia,zaza   82.5   
brezec,primoz   84.0   
perkins,kendrick   85.1   
swift,robert   89.7   
araujo,rafael   96.3

Here are this seasons rankings (I've included Darko's Orlando numbers because it's my list!)

Stop %

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milicic,darko   76.3   
mourning,alonzo   73.9   
diop,desagna   73.2   
camby,marcus   70.5   
wallace,ben   69.0   
przybilla,joel   64.0   
foyle,adonal   63.1   
dalembert,samuel   62.0   
o'neal,shaquille   61.8   
wright,lorenzen   60.6   
nesterovic,rasho   60.4   
ilgauskas,zydrunas   59.4   
ming,yao   59.2   
dampier,erick   59.1   
ratliff,theo   59.1   
elson,francisco   58.6   
haywood,brendan   58.3   
o'neal,jermaine   57.9   
collins,jarron   56.1   
thomas,kurt   56.1   
chandler,tyson   56.0   
collins,jason   55.0   
perkins,kendrick   54.9   
battie,tony   53.6   
pachulia,zaza   53.6   
blount,mark   53.2   
kaman,chris   52.3   
swift,robert   50.4   
brown,p.j.   50.3   
lafrentz,raef   49.6   
magloire,jamaal   49.3   
foster,jeff   49.2   
brown,kwame   49.1   
mihm,chris   49.0   
krstic,nenad   48.6   
petro,johan   48.5   
bosh,chris   48.2   
okur,mehmet   48.2   
miller,brad   47.0   
curry,eddy   46.7   
araujo,rafael   45.8   
brezec,primoz   44.2   
collison,nick   41.3

Defensive Turnover %

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collins,jarron   20.3   
pachulia,zaza   18.1   
elson,francisco   17.8   
thomas,kurt   17.1   
haywood,brendan   16.3   
collins,jason   16.1   
araujo,rafael   16.0   
brezec,primoz   15.9   
wright,lorenzen   15.6   
petro,johan   14.5   
nesterovic,rasho   14.4   
brown,p.j.   14.3   
miller,brad   14.3   
ratliff,theo   14.2   
chandler,tyson   13.9   
brown,kwame   13.8   
blount,mark   13.8   
foyle,adonal   13.8   
o'neal,shaquille   13.5   
ming,yao   13.5   
dalembert,samuel   13.3   
camby,marcus   13.3   
bosh,chris   13.1   
lafrentz,raef   13.1   
okur,mehmet   13.0   
diop,desagna   13.0   
battie,tony   12.9   
o'neal,jermaine   12.7   
wallace,ben   12.7   
swift,robert   12.6   
krstic,nenad   12.6   
foster,jeff   12.5   
dampier,erick   12.3   
mourning,alonzo   11.8   
milicic,darko   11.7   
ilgauskas,zydrunas   11.5   
przybilla,joel   11.3   
mihm,chris   11.1   
perkins,kendrick   11.1   
curry,eddy   10.9   
magloire,jamaal   10.7   
collison,nick   10.5   
kaman,chris   10.3   

Stops Per Game (Again on totals, Wallace has 215 more stops than the next guy (Bosh at 464, then Camby at 463) although it's worth noting Marion is on pace to average almost 10.5 stops per game)

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wallace,ben   8.93   
camby,marcus   8.74   
o'neal,jermaine   8.62   
bosh,chris   6.63   
ming,yao   6.50   
kaman,chris   6.12   
miller,brad   6.08   
przybilla,joel   6.04   
ilgauskas,zydrunas   6.01   
dalembert,samuel   5.98   
okur,mehmet   5.96   
o'neal,shaquille   5.79   
krstic,nenad   5.68   
pachulia,zaza   5.64   
foyle,adonal   5.56   
milicic,darko   5.42   
chandler,tyson   5.36   
mourning,alonzo   5.29   
thomas,kurt   5.26   
brown,kwame   5.12   
lafrentz,raef   4.99   
magloire,jamaal   4.97   
brown,p.j.   4.97   
haywood,brendan   4.95   
battie,tony   4.92   
collins,jason   4.89   
blount,mark   4.86   
dampier,erick   4.48   
brezec,primoz   4.47   
mihm,chris   4.43   
foster,jeff   4.32   
wright,lorenzen   4.26   
diop,desagna   4.25   
curry,eddy   4.24   
ratliff,theo   4.18   
elson,francisco   3.99   
swift,robert   3.82   
perkins,kendrick   3.81   
collins,jarron   3.75   
nesterovic,rasho   3.59   
collison,nick   3.42   
petro,johan   3.23   
araujo,rafael   2.62   

And Stops Per 40 Min

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mourning,alonzo   10.57   
camby,marcus   10.54   
milicic,darko   10.34   
wallace,ben   10.00   
o'neal,jermaine   9.82   
diop,desagna   9.30   
foyle,adonal   9.29   
przybilla,joel   9.00   
dalembert,samuel   8.88   
haywood,brendan   8.30   
perkins,kendrick   8.20   
ilgauskas,zydrunas   8.10   
lafrentz,raef   7.97   
chandler,tyson   7.94   
thomas,kurt   7.91   
wright,lorenzen   7.84   
nesterovic,rasho   7.66   
o'neal,shaquille   7.53   
ming,yao   7.50   
brown,kwame   7.49   
dampier,erick   7.48   
kaman,chris   7.46   
elson,francisco   7.38   
krstic,nenad   7.37   
battie,tony   7.29   
swift,robert   7.28   
collins,jason   7.27   
pachulia,zaza   7.15   
ratliff,theo   7.09   
blount,mark   6.99   
petro,johan   6.96   
foster,jeff   6.84   
bosh,chris   6.75   
mihm,chris   6.73   
collins,jarron   6.70   
araujo,rafael   6.68   
okur,mehmet   6.68   
brezec,primoz   6.57   
magloire,jamaal   6.56   
curry,eddy   6.50   
miller,brad   6.50   
collison,nick   6.27   
brown,p.j.   6.19   

And the FlrPtsPer100FlrPoss

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milicic,darko   66.5   
collins,jarron   67.6   
wright,lorenzen   71.0   
thomas,kurt   71.0   
collins,jason   72.2   
diop,desagna   73.1   
mourning,alonzo   73.2   
elson,francisco   73.4   
foyle,adonal   75.3   
ming,yao   75.3   
dampier,erick   76.0   
lafrentz,raef   76.5   
o'neal,jermaine   76.7   
haywood,brendan   77.2   
krstic,nenad   77.6   
nesterovic,rasho   78.0   
camby,marcus   78.1   
o'neal,shaquille   78.1   
okur,mehmet   79.1   
brown,kwame   79.3   
chandler,tyson   79.3   
collison,nick   79.5   
ilgauskas,zydrunas   80.6   
przybilla,joel   81.0   
wallace,ben   81.0   
foster,jeff   81.6   
blount,mark   82.2   
mihm,chris   82.6   
dalembert,samuel   82.8   
battie,tony   83.4   
magloire,jamaal   83.5   
kaman,chris   83.7   
ratliff,theo   84.7   
pachulia,zaza   85.2   
bosh,chris   86.8   
petro,johan   86.8   
brown,p.j.   87.3   
brezec,primoz   88.6   
perkins,kendrick   88.6   
miller,brad   89.2   
swift,robert   91.8   
curry,eddy   91.9   
araujo,rafael   94.3   

[Laxation]

You have way too much time on your hands... I really hope that was copied and not typed all by you

[shadowgrin]

If benji did type that, it's still pretty short compared to D-Weaver posting standards.