Shaq vs Ming

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Shaq vs Ming

Postby Andrew on Sat Jan 18, 2003 4:44 pm

The battle went into overtime, and the final result went along these lines:

Shaq: 31 points (13/26 FG, 5/6 FT), 13 rebounds, 4 assists
Ming: 10 points (5/14 FG), 10 rebounds, 3 assists, 6 blocks

Ming didn't shoot particularly well in the game before this one, and against Shaq, that trend isn't going to be easily broken. However, Ming did block Shaq three times in the first three minutes, and that doesn't happen all that often. I think that's a sign that Yao is/will be capable of holding his own against Shaq in future encounters. He's not on Shaq's level yet - far from it - but I'd say that he can stand his ground and will not back down from the challenge.

Despite Yao's efforts, Shaq had a great game, as did Kobe (22 points, 11 rebounds, 9 assists), but the game went to the Rockets in OT. That certainly doesn't help the Lakers campaign, as they are still a few games behind the T'Wolves for 8th place in the West. The Timberwolves look like losing to the Warriors though.

I didn't get to see the game (of course :x), so I'm basing my assertions on boxscores and recaps. To anyone who saw the game, did it live up to the hype? And how did Ming perform against Shaq (forgetting about the stats for a moment)?
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Postby MaD_hAND1e on Sat Jan 18, 2003 5:16 pm

man! i thought yao was gonna have a big night after that start, but too bad
steve francis played so well wif a career high.
I saw it on espn and they said yao sent shaq a christmas card saying he want to be like shaq , lol
what was really funny was hearing shaqs dad talk, now you know where shaq gets his mumbling from...:)
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Postby bishibashiboy on Sat Jan 18, 2003 9:45 pm

Good game...but watching the replays..i definitely think the Lakers got robbed on that flagrant foul call..Shaq was clearly going for the ball and despite the fact it was a hard foul..it was a terrible call..but oh well..life goes on!
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Postby scubilete on Sun Jan 19, 2003 1:25 am

All of you are right, even you Andrew that didn't watch the game. On my point of view, Yao started good like others would say, 6 points & 3 blocks in the first minutes. I have to admit I saw Shaq lost on the court facing someone that big, like he couldn't really contain the size of ming, so even Ming didn't take any rebound in the first half, his size was a big factor to keep shaq out of the boards, I'm talking on the first half only. After that Shaq came decided to play and made some big dunks and played good D against Shao, lol. On the other side, if you see the points of Ming, meaning he just scored 4 points after those 3 or 4 first minutes, his shooting was bad with a good D from Shaq but of course he got the win, that matters.

Shaq shot pretty well from the line, lol.

I have to admit that I thought the referees were not going to let Shaq play his game, but they did, not in all cases so that flagrant was called but I saw Shaq going to the basket the way he's used to.
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Postby EGarrett on Sun Jan 19, 2003 1:59 am

Shaq had his first 4 shots blocked...3 by Ming and 1 by Eddie Griffin when Shaq was busy trying to avoid Ming.

On the first two possessions Shaq got the ball along the baseline and tried his crossover--which didn't work--then threw up an ugly shot that Ming blocked. The Rockets got the ball back...they go inside to Yao and Yao throws up a hook over Shaq that's good...sending the crowd into a frenzy. After that Yao scored mostly on putbacks. His jumper was off and of course when the game matters Steve Francis is one of the most selfish players you'll ever see so Yao didn't get any more touches except when Francis was triple-teamed.

He changed the way Shaq played...and Shaq didn't push him around. Shaq also couldn't stop Yao from getting his shot inside either. Yao earned a lot of respect tonight.
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Postby champ on Sun Jan 19, 2003 2:43 am

Unfortunately, Ming will never show everything that he is capable of doing while he plays with Steve Francis. I don't see the Rockets trading Francis, but it will be interesting to see what happens when Ming's contract eventually expires - he will get huge offers from plenty, and he might want out if he is still only getting 12 shot attempts per game.
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Postby mkool8 on Sun Jan 19, 2003 2:44 am

Yeah, I agree. Yao earned a lot of respect (mostly from me). It was cool seeing Yao play, he looked like an amazed kid playing against his idol. I thought his game was very polished (1st time I saw him play well). The only drawback I saw was his fadeaway J, it's unblockable but it takes too much time in his hands that it changes the trajectory of the shot immensely fading.

Getting to the playoffs will help his game greatly. I wasn't actually mad of last game even though i was Laker fan. Even I'm not complaining about that flagrant foul call, it was one play it shouldn't have come to that point.
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Postby scubilete on Sun Jan 19, 2003 3:01 am

I agree with that comment about changing the way Shaq plays, that's why I said I saw shaq lost on the court, also agree with the respect that Yao deserves, anyone blocking shaq deserves some respect, the old Parish did it few times playing for the Hornets. However:

Shaq also couldn't stop Yao from getting his shot inside either.


does that mean Yao shooting was good?, because if Yao got few shots inside, and I meant few shots cause Francis might be selfish, but you need to hit your shots to get more opportunities, he didn't shoot well at all.

Also, I saw ESPN shooting some of the review and they showed Shaq sliding Ming to the basket to get the dunk.

1st time I saw him play well


That means you haven't seen him playing that much.

His 6 blocks are really good tho.
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Postby Electrifyer on Sun Jan 19, 2003 3:54 am

Give Francis some time to develop. He's young and he is at the point in his career where he feels he can do everything. Almost every youngster goes through this phase and after when he learns to do whats best for the team, the team of Yao, Francis and Mobley too will reach its full potential.

As for Yao, I'm happy that he was able to hold his own last night, once he gets some more experience and plays a few more years in the NBA, we will truly see a great Shaq vs. Yao matchup. I also heard that Yao got a jammed index finger during the game which bugged him.
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Postby Andrew on Sun Jan 19, 2003 10:09 pm

Had some spare time, so I thought I'd check out Shaq/Ming head to head.

Shaq: 26.1 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 3.0 apg, 2.07 bpg, in 37.3 mpg
Ming: 12.8 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 1.5 apg, 2.1 bpg, in 27.0 mpg

If they played the same minutes per game:

Shaq: 26.1 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 3.0 apg, 2.07 bpg, in 37.3 mpg
Ming: 17.7 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 2.1 apg, 2.9 bpg in 37.3 mpg

Not bad, though Shaq is still the superior scorer and would dish out more assists. So...should Yao be playing more minutes?
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Postby scubilete on Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:55 am

Like you said in the other forum, Shao Ming is catching up those early games from the starting of the season.

In the last 19 Games, his avg. of Minutes per game is 32 including that game he left early injured after playing only 11 minutes, so he is getting some more playing time.

also, 9.4 Reb, 2.0 Asst, 2.7 blks but even like that 96-205 .468 FG% with an average of 14.5 ppg during those last 19 games.

But .395 FG% (34-86) in January
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Postby Andrew on Mon Jan 20, 2003 9:24 am

Yeah, after that hot shooting in December, he's been struggling with his shot, possibly because teams are realising he's for real and are throwing more at him.
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Postby Clinton on Mon Jan 20, 2003 10:24 am

he's been struggling with his shot, possibly because teams are realising he's for real and are throwing more at him.


It could possibly also be due to the limited shots he is getting. If he thinks he has to shoot whenever he gets the ball in order to get his points, his shot selection is not going to be great. I think they have to run a lot more plays for the big fella.
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Postby Andrew on Mon Jan 20, 2003 10:32 am

Definitely not a lot of shots to go around with Francis and Mobley as the top options.
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Postby EGarrett on Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:14 am

They need to trade Mobley and Taylor for a bruising power forward.

Hell, I'd do Francis and Maurice Taylor for Chauncey Billups and Ben Wallace if I thought the Pistons would go for it.

Either way, they should focus the offense around Francis and Yao, then get rid of the other 'machine gunners' in favor of capable role players.
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Postby Bill Russell on Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:23 am

You mean Mobley and Taylor for Wallace and Billups, right? :wink:

But then the Pistons would be with Hamilton and Mobley... Wouldn't work out...
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Postby Clinton on Tue Jan 21, 2003 10:21 am

I think the Pistons would definately take stevie and Taylor for Billups and Wallace, but they wouldn't take Mobley and Taylor (like I think you meant). Like Tales said you would then be left with Mobley and Hamilton and nothing in the way of a point guard.
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Postby EGarrett on Tue Jan 21, 2003 10:34 am

You mean Mobley and Taylor for Wallace and Billups, right?
I think the Pistons would definately take stevie and Taylor for Billups and Wallace, but they wouldn't take Mobley and Taylor (like I think you meant).


I meant Steve Francis and Maurice Taylor. I know it was a little out of place considering I was talking about trading Mobley then later I said they should build around Francis. But it wasn't a typo...I'd do Francis and Maurice Taylor for Wallace and Billups. I just think that Yao has to be a focal point of the offense and that Houston has way too many scorers. That way your lineup would be...

C Yao
PF Wallace
SF Griffin
SG Mobley
PG Billups
______________

PG Norris
PF/SF Nachbar
G/F Posey
C Cato

The thought of Ben Wallace and Yao Ming in a frontcourt makes me drool. He does all the dirty work and would be just the type of bodyguard Yao needs. The shotblocking team of Griffin, Wallace and Yao would make it nigh impossible to drive the middle against the Rockets also. Mobley can do his Get Buckets work when the Rockets need him to and Billups is a veteran playmaker. Eddie can score, post-up and is a developing athlete. I like that team.

Or, you could do Eddie Griffin and Cuttino Mobley for Ben Wallace and Richard Hamilton. That might give you a core like this...

C Yao
PF Wallace
SF Posey
SG Hamilton
PG Francis
______________

SF Nachbar
SG Rice
PG Norris
PF Taylor
C Cato

Hamilton a shooter and scorer who doesn't play defense but I think he'd fill the same role as Cuttino while being less selfish. He'd also be a lot more effective as a spot-up shooter.

Of course who knows what the Pistons would actually agree to...but combining the power of Moochie Norris's hair with Ben Wallace's would surely bring the universe to it's knees.
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Postby Clinton on Tue Jan 21, 2003 12:54 pm

know it was a little out of place considering I was talking about trading Mobley then later I said they should build around Francis.


Yeah that's how we got confused.

The thought of Ben Wallace and Yao Ming in a frontcourt makes me drool.


True. t would give them a rock solid front court that noone would want to play against. It would totally shut down the oppositions post and driving game.

Or, you could do Eddie Griffin and Cuttino Mobley for Ben Wallace and Richard Hamilton.


I doubt Detroit would go for that. They are giving up a great defender and rebounder and their leading scorer for a inconsistent forward and a streaky shooter.

but combining the power of Moochie Norris's hair with Ben Wallace's would surely bring the universe to it's knees.


:lol:
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Postby Matt on Fri Jan 31, 2003 11:55 pm

i dont think the Pistons would give up their ONLY rebounder and teams MVP
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