duncan...

by **aldrin** on Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:51 pm

timmy posted back to back six blocks in two games which is phenomenal...

is this the time he could won defensive player of the year... he's been getting overlooked the past years, i hope not this year...

he's a one hell of a blocker...

better than shaq
better than kg
i think better than big ben because he's consistent man...

what do you guys think...

by **Amphatoast** on Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:22 pm

i think ak47

by **j.23** on Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:59 pm

duncan and garnett get overlooked every year.. i was choked when wallace won it last year, i really thought garnett should've gotten it.

i don't think we'll see duncan winning it anytime soon even though he's an excellent defender. i agree with amphatoast, i can see someone like ak 47 winning it, or maybe bruce bowen.

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:08 pm

There shouldn't be any doubt about Duncan's defensive abilities and he's always going to be contending for a spot on the All-Defensive team. I guess the problem is he doesn't make enough "noise" with his defense - he's a model of consistency in pretty much every aspect of his game aside from free throws, but players like Ben Wallace have usually had slightly better defensive statistics.

The fact that players like Wallace have gained reputations as fierce defensive players while Duncan is known more as an all-around great player might also account for those selections, which seems strange logic but I feel it's probably the case; the DPOY award going to a player with a reputation as being one of the league's best defenders with a player like Duncan in the running for the big individual prize, the MVP. I don't think that's the right approach to the awards though, after all both Michael Jordan and Hakeem Olajuwon have collected both awards in the same season before.

by **Laxation** on Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:30 am

he isnt going to win it...

ben for defensive player!!!

(or if your going by first 3 games... Ak47 will, hes got 19 blocks in the first 4 games, not to mention 2-3steals per game as well.)

All duncan does on the defensive stats is block, whereas ben and ak47 both steal as well.

by **1CenT** on Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:45 am

AK47 is insane..
If he can consistently score like 20 ppg then he will be 1 of the best players..

He is already 1 of the best defenders.. i remember seeing him block kobe 1 on 1 after getting beat slighly on a drive.. then there was a play, kenyon martin spins pass him and then goes for da dunk but AK blocks it from the back, then he had a block on duncan's post shot.. THat was an ak47 highlight beginning of last season when he was racking it up

how versatile is that?

by **magius** on Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:03 am

look at the last couple of posts and you'll get the reason duncan will not win the dpoy even though he should've by now. the problem is he does so much so well that people overlook how well he does it. every year the award will either go to stats or a one dimensional player who is a 'monster' on defense (not to mention highlight reels). in my opinion, it doesnt matter how many blocks or steals you get, but how well you can anchor a teams defense. but i do understand that its only natural that we tend to focus more on the defense of a player with no offense rather than one who is extraordinary at both. and i cant argue with most of the past dpoy selections, but i do think one of ben wallace's should went tds way. also i think that if td played in one of the more 'major' cities he would've gotten one by now.

oh and it looks like he's been working on his free throws this offseason based on his early season performance.... we'll see.....

by **Drex** on Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:48 am

Like magius and Andrew said. the DPOY goes to the player with the most impressive stats. So probably AK or Big Ben will be the winners.

by **Riot** on Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:52 am

But thing I don't like is there is no statistic for great defense.

The award should go to players like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Trenton Hassell, Greg Buckner, ect more often than it does. But they don't get the BPG or SPG but that doesn't mean they aren't amazing defenders.

Remember this kids: there is no stat for great defense. The sad thing is, many people think there is.

by **Drex** on Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:58 am

Agree. People overrate players like Hughes and Iverson 'cause they get a lot of steals...and that's about it.

by **Laxation** on Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:25 am

magius wrote:but i do understand that its only natural that we tend to focus more on the defense of a player with no offense rather than one who is extraordinary at both.

if someone is extraordinary at both (ie duncan) then they are more likely to win MVP. i would MUCH rather win mvp than dpoy

by **cyanide** on Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:30 am

It's nice to know that Bowen and Artest is getting more publicity, regardless. It's been all about stats for so long, but now people are talking about Artest's defense, and I guess he built a reputation around that. Artest did win DPOY, and I'm sure the trend will continue if a player can build a rep around that, where stats aren't always taken into consideration.

by **Null17** on Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:56 pm

j.23 wrote:duncan and garnett get overlooked every year.. i was choked when wallace won it last year, i really thought garnett should've gotten it.

Totally agree. Both are always great and consistent on defense but always get overlooked. But yeah, they probably won't get it again this season like any other. AK47 is one of my faves as well. I don't mind him winning the DPOY especially considering that he's only 6'7"(?) and playing SF but still getting a lot blocks (last season at least, don't know about this season)

by **Indy** on Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:00 pm

Riot wrote:Remember this kids: there is no stat for great defense. The sad thing is, many people think there is.

There is a stat, its just not recorded. How many points someone scores while you are guarding them is a stat, and it defines how good your defense is.

by **Riot** on Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:10 pm

Indy wrote:
Riot wrote:Remember this kids: there is no stat for great defense. The sad thing is, many people think there is.

There is a stat, its just not recorded. How many points someone scores while you are guarding them is a stat, and it defines how good your defense is.

That is true, but that isn't the only thing that defense is. You can't record how many times you denied a player the ball or forced them to their weak hand. Or how many times you forced them to give up the ball.

by **Emiliano** on Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:42 pm

Riot wrote:But thing I don't like is there is no statistic for great defense.

The award should go to players like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Trenton Hassell, Greg Buckner, ect more often than it does. But they don't get the BPG or SPG but that doesn't mean they aren't amazing defenders.

Remember this kids: there is no stat for great defense. The sad thing is, many people think there is.

I agree 100%. Defenders like the ones mentioned do not get the respect they deserve.

by **Laxation** on Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:58 pm

offence wins memberships, defence wins championships

everyone loves a great offensive player... =)

by **putodelagoa** on Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:48 pm

LeBron averages around 2 spg and everyone speaks the world of his defense when he plays atrociously bad defense. I still have the Cavs- Spurs game in my mind.
The tv analysts that only look at the ball going in the basket have a Hard time figuring out what guys like Jason Collins are doing on the floor, overlooking the fact the man his the only one on the NJ team that knows how to defend the post. His stats don't show it though. It's like the rebounders. Everyone praises the rebounder but not the guy who makes the screen to deny people the offensive rebound.

by **Fenix** on Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:54 am

Null17 wrote:
j.23 wrote:duncan and garnett get overlooked every year.. i was choked when wallace won it last year, i really thought garnett should've gotten it.

Totally agree. Both are always great and consistent on defense but always get overlooked. But yeah, they probably won't get it again this season like any other. AK47 is one of my faves as well. I don't mind him winning the DPOY especially considering that he's only 6'7"(?) and playing SF but still getting a lot blocks (last season at least, don't know about this season)

AK is 6'10'' with shoes, although 6'9'' is his listed height.

by **Null17** on Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:02 am

crap yeah 6'9" sorry... I actually play him at PF most of the time on Live...my bad

by **cklitsie** on Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:18 am

Riot wrote:Remember this kids: there is no stat for great defense. The sad thing is, many people think there is.

True, but I read an article on AK47 once about those kind of 'hidden stats'.
He has the most defensive stops in the league, not only counting blocks and steals, but also situations like when his direct opponent dribbled out of bounds, made a traveling/double dribble violation, made a error pass, etc.
If Kirilenko can stay healthy this season (and obviously, keeps playing like this), he should be front runner for DPOY. It's about time he gets some recognition.

Kirilenko has the kind of stats that make you want to tweak your sliders in NBA Live.

by **aldrin** on Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:41 am

why do people in the nba that emphatic block makes sense at all than the usual tip block like td does...

he doesn't put as much emphasis when he blocked shots but men, no one can pass him...

big ben is good, ak is damn good also but the most blocks and most consistent is td...

he always lose in voting by the panel but the stats show he's on top

c'mon give me a break...

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:00 am

Riot wrote:But thing I don't like is there is no statistic for great defense.

The award should go to players like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Trenton Hassell, Greg Buckner, ect more often than it does. But they don't get the BPG or SPG but that doesn't mean they aren't amazing defenders.

Remember this kids: there is no stat for great defense. The sad thing is, many people think there is.

True, but that doesn't mean stats such as steals or blocks are completely irrelevant. Generally speaking, you don't amass impressive steals per game or blocks per game numbers by accident. In my opinion, the award should ideally go the player who can play the best defense doing the things that don't show up on the stat sheet but also has impressive stats. I think that's the mark of a truly great defensive player.

by **maes** on Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:12 am

The vote is done by coaches not the media, and coaches have DVDs full of stats on every little thing, and many variations of how a player defends someone by lowering their FG% and shot attempts. That's generally how Bruce Bowen gets up there, controversially.

There are hard #s behind the DPOY votes, but i think the team's record heavily influences it. You've got to win to get any of the awards other than ROY.

by **Matt** on Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:56 pm

I think the DPOY award should go to a guy that dominates defensively. I'm not necessarily talking about stats, but how he affects the game. Guys like, Wallace, Kirilenko, Garnett, Duncan.

Bowen and Artest are great 1-on-1 players, that's nice but they only can shut down 1 guy. Guys likes Wallace and company not only make it hard for their man to score but for everyone else on the court. They have the most effect in a game defensively.

If a guard can't keep his man out of the lane he's of no use, because once his man gets there it's a big guy that contests the shot most of the time.

duncan...

duncan...

td...

Who is online