The young wave

[Fenix]

It is obvious that the NBA is going through some kind of rebuilding period which was necessary after the golden era of the 80' and 90'. The players who rule the NBA right now (KG, Tim Duncan, KB, T-Mac, Shaq, Jason Kidd...) can offer us only a glimpse of talent which is horizont.

C: Andrew Bogut, Eddy Curry, Samuel Dalembert, Greg Oden, Yao Ming, Nenad Krstic, Andris Biedrins, Andrew Bynum...
PF: Amare Stoudamire, Dwight Howard, Emeka Okafor, Pau Gasol, Al Jefferson, Nene, Hakim Warrick...
SF: Travis Outlaw, Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony, Luol Deng, Josh Childress, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, Danny Granger...
SG: J.R. Smith, Gerald Green, Andre Iguodala, Dwyane Wade, Martell Webster, Ben Gordon, O.J. Mayo...
PG: Luke Ridnour, Kirk Hinrich, Sebastian Telfair, Shaun Livingston, Devin Harris, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Raymond Felton...

My question is this: did the future ten years ago (before the 1995/96 season) seem as bright as it does now? Of course, Duncan, KG, T-Mac and Kobe were hyped even before they even stepped on the NBA court, but Jordan was old, so were the great centres of the '90 and there was only a duo of players who could replace them: Shaq and Mutombo. So what do you think? Are we really on step away from the new golden era? IMHO, the future never looked brighter (and more athletic) before.

[matmat8]

There will never be a another golden era as there will never be another dream team.

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

My question is this: did the future ten years ago (before the 1995/96 season) seem as bright as it does now?

My question is this: Was the hype-machine ten years ago (before the 1995/96 season ) as mind-controlling as it is now?

[maes]

It is obvious that the NBA is going through some kind of rebuilding period which was necessary after the golden era of the 80' and 90'.

I think this is a false assumption. What makes you think this is true?

The NBA has never been more popular, it's more popular now than in the 80s or 90s in terms of real metrics such as merchandising dollars, adverstising dollars, licensing dollars. Individual NBA players have an incredible amount of marketing power...LeBron James...nuff said. As a true testament, even players who have done nothing significant have a massive amount of marketing power, such as McGrady, Yao Ming, and Vince Carter.

Now, you can argue that the actual game of basketball was better in the 80s and 90s. Back then, to be a "superstar" you actually had to accomplish incredible feats, as did Bird and Earvin and Jordan. Nowadays, even "good" players command a high level of power. The Vince Carter phenomenon is especially boggling to me. This guy would have been another JR Rider back in the 80s...basically yet another 20+ ppg scorer, whoop-dee-do.

Nowadays, score 20 points and you are basketball god =/

Basically, i think there is way too much hype today, but the talent is pretty much the same. I think the most interesting addition is all the international talent

[Fenix]

I think this is a false assumption. What makes you think this is true?

It's a logical consequence of all that talent which came into the league in the late 70'/80'/early 90'. It would be too much to expect that that influx of unbeliavable talent will continue.

The NBA has never been more popular, it's more popular now than in the 80s or 90s in terms of real metrics such as merchandising dollars, adverstising dollars, licensing dollars. Individual NBA players have an incredible amount of marketing power...LeBron James...nuff said. As a true testament, even players who have done nothing significant have a massive amount of marketing power, such as McGrady, Yao Ming, and Vince Carter.

I have to agree with you. But to make a point based on NBA's popularity or popularity of individuals in the league, but based on the actual basketball talent.

Now, you can argue that the actual game of basketball was better in the 80s and 90s. Back then, to be a "superstar" you actually had to accomplish incredible feats, as did Bird and Earvin and Jordan. Nowadays, even "good" players command a high level of power. The Vince Carter phenomenon is especially boggling to me. This guy would have been another JR Rider back in the 80s...basically yet another 20+ ppg scorer, whoop-dee-do.

Nowadays, score 20 points and you are basketball god =/

Basically, i think there is way too much hype today, but the talent is pretty much the same. I think the most interesting addition is all the international talent

I would have to agree with you once again. But then again, there are more JR Riders than ever before, plus a new wave of unique talents is coming and this one deserves its hype. You talk about Lebron? Was there a 20 years old athletic freak who could fill the statboard the way he does? Dwyane Wade? He's a winner with awesome stats to prove that he's worthy of the hype. Amare? Dwight Howard? Every team has its own player with Dominique Wilkins or Shawn Kemp type of potential. What I'm trying to say is that of course there will be a lot of JR Riders, but the upper echelon of these players will present these special talents and there will be more of them than in the late 90'. They said that PG position is dead - then guys like Telfair, Livingston, Deron Williams and Paul come, all with franchise type potential and with 'true' point guard mentality&skill. When did that happen in the 90'? The past drafts were deeper than ever. Perhaps we will see the times when the champion's bench will have 3 or 4 players with starter's talent (remember the Celtics?).

[GloveGuy]

VanK, you throw around the word potential a bit like it actually means something. Potential only holds value until it's fulfilled.

The 90s featured great, fundamentally-sound players. The center position was at its peak. Looking at the in-coming crop of big men, I don't see any Hakeem Olajuwon's; I don't see any David Robinson's. I don't see John Stockton out there, or Gary Payton. I don't see Scottie Pippen or Grant Hill. I don't see Michael Jordan. These guys, and many more un-mentioned, were great players. And we can call them great because they've come and they've gone through their primes.

There are some new guys out here with the potential to be called great. But let's not jump to a conclusion and write the path of their careers. They still need to get better and they still need to look at who came before them to recognize what it takes to get there. The fundamentals of some of these young guys is laughable. And coaches don't always have time to teach players the fundamentals of the game. And that's why busts come and go more frequently than they did in the 1990s.

[Bang]

You have no centers that are even near the level of 90s centers. The game is still one played by Centers and forwards. Was, is, will be. (I think I've said this a billion times but MJ is a big exception which will probably never happen again.) Thanks to MJ, everyone wants to be a guard, or plays like a guard. This will be a problem. I don't think the talent level now is nearly as good as the talent level in the past for that reason.

[Kemp]

I don't think the talent level now is nearly as good as the talent level in the past for that reason.

I must agree with you.

[Impose]

I remember when Reggie Miller was on the Dream Team he said "I think the USA is about 25 years ahead of the rest of the world" .... Around 10 years later the dream team lost at the Olympics... Now you might say "Yea, but the TOP stars didnt play in that team."

But still, the USA looked unorganized and arrogant at the olympics and the rest of the world HAS caught up. You've got Manu Ginobili/Tony Parker playing crucial roles in the NBA Finals, Yao Ming/Andrew Bogut going No1 in the draft....

The NBA has gone global, and thats why the future is bright IMO, its hard to answer the question "did the future look this bright 10 years ago" because it was a different mindset 10 years ago.

[Andrew]

The NBA landscape was certainly different, whether or not the future looked brighter then than it does now depends on your point of view.

I think the main difference is the lack of a true marquee player (or players) in the league today, though that could partly be due to the fact many of the top players are still very young and therefore don't seem established. By the mid 90s, most of the top guys had been around at least five seasons.

The NBA is still in a transition period when it comes to having an icon. In the 80s, you had Magic and Bird and later Michael Jordan as the faces of the NBA. In the 90s, despite all the great players MJ still served as the face of the league. While there are great players today, there isn't really a Magic, Bird or MJ in terms of being one of the game's best and most successful, as well as the most marketable and recognisable player, not to mention one with crossover appeal.

For example, Tim Duncan is the most fundamentally sound player, is fun for the basketball purist to watch and you could argue that he's the best player in the league, he's certainly one of the most successful in the last few years. And from all accounts, he's a nice guy. But he doesn't have the same charimastic personality that makes him stand out as the league's icon.

The league is also trying to push several players as their marquee superstar, and as a result it's very hard to determine who is the face of the NBA. It's also causing fans to reject players as they're being shoved down their throats. The NBA's marketing machine has been operating for years, but these days it feels so much more...artificial, much more forced.

I suppose the main difference remains that back in the 90s, there were the elite players led by Michael Jordan, some perennial All-Stars and young stars, some of whom were already approaching elite/perennial All-Star status and others up-and-coming. These days there isn't so much of a difference now, with a lot of the young players also serving as the established superstars. In my opinion, the league needs to let things happen "organically". In other words, the fans have to gravitate towards the player who will be the icon, the face of the league for the next decade.

The league's marketing execs might be feeling a bit desperate because that transition between generations wasn't very smooth. Many of the stars of the 90s retired abruptly, faded quickly and/or didn't leave the game on the same terms as the generation before them. Thus, anyone and everyone - when it comes to the best players in the NBA - will be hyped as the Next Big Thing. The NBA needs to lose that mindset.

[Amphatoast]

1990s was a decade which had
Excellent Centers,
Very Good PF,
average SF,
average SG,
good PG

who all together played well together.

today we have
below average C
Very Good PF
average SF
very good SG ( too many)
average PG ( many SG playing point)

the key difference is the lack of big men these days. No big men=point guards passing to SG and everyone these days wants to be like Jordan and take over. Too many kobe, iversons, tmacs, s. francis, marbury, ray allen, michael redd, lebron james, paul pierce, vince carter blah blah.. its like every team now has a superstar level SG and many without big men.

Other than Jordan, Richmond and couple others, SGs really didn't get 23+ ppg like today. Other than Shaq and Yao, which true center ( amare, duncan, kg, dirk are PFs) can do that?
We need more big men.. they balance out the league. They can't hog the ball like these SG can so everyone gets a fair chance for the most part.

[Fresh8]

You can't blame the players I guess. Maybe growing up watching MJ has changed the way the game is played today. Maybe even big men try to hard to be like Jordan instead of say Shaq.

[Kemp]

1990s was a decade which had
Excellent Centers,
Very Good PF,
average SF,
average SG,
good PG

who all together played well together.

today we have
below average C
Very Good PF
average SF
very good SG ( too many)
average PG ( many SG playing point)

the key difference is the lack of big men these days. No big men=point guards passing to SG and everyone these days wants to be like Jordan and take over. Too many kobe, iversons, tmacs, s. francis, marbury, ray allen, michael redd, lebron james, paul pierce, vince carter blah blah.. its like every team now has a superstar level SG and many without big men.

Other than Jordan, Richmond and couple others, SGs really didn't get 23+ ppg like today. Other than Shaq and Yao, which true center ( amare, duncan, kg, dirk are PFs) can do that?
We need more big men.. they balance out the league. They can't hog the ball like these SG can so everyone gets a fair chance for the most part.

I strongly agree with your comments.

[Andrew]

1990s was a decade which had
Excellent Centers,
Very Good PF,
average SF,
average SG,
good PG

I wouldn't completely agree with that. There has been a huge influx of talent at shooting guard and small forward in recent years with some great swingman in the NBA right now, but during the 90s the position was pretty much the same, with Michael Jordan leading the way followed by Drexler, Miller and Richmond, followed by the likes of Steve Smith, Jeff Hornacek, Ricky Pierce, Jeff Malone, etc.

[The X]

1990s was a decade which had
Excellent Centers,
Very Good PF,
average SF,
average SG,
good PG

I wouldn't completely agree with that. There has been a huge influx of talent at shooting guard and small forward in recent years with some great swingman in the NBA right now, but during the 90s the position was pretty much the same, with Michael Jordan leading the way followed by Drexler, Miller and Richmond, followed by the likes of Steve Smith, Jeff Hornacek, Ricky Pierce, Jeff Malone, etc.

I'm guessing half of them are in Atlanta, right?

[Andrew]

Soon enough X, soon enough.

[Matthew]

Andrew's first post was top notch.

Even before MJ retired in 98 they were hyping the next jordan. Remember Stackhouse, Grant Hill, kobe..

Speaking of Kobe, I was thinking about this recently and spoke to a few mates about this. I believe he is the face of this generation. He hasnt wont mvp or finals mvp. But his play has got killer instinct, he is the most skilled player, has 3 rings, is only 26 or 27, is marketable, and has 10 more years left in the tank if he wants it.

Imo it came down to him and Iverson. But Iverson is older, has no rings and plays so recklessly he may not have 4 or 5 more good years in him.

[Andrew]

Not to mention Billy Owens, Kendall Gill and even Ron Harper.

The only problem with Kobe is the rape allegation, which although he's risen above has hurt his marketability outside the game. Even with the trial dismissed, it seems corporations are reluctant to do business with him; Nike are only just starting to ease him back into their ad campaigns, and that's been met with a bit of controversy.

[Bang]

I think unless people realize that Jordan was an exception to the whole basketball formula for winning, then the league will continue on like this. Centers and forwards win championships. I think I've argued this before and it was met with a lot of resistance. This is because we just remember Jordan and how amazing he was. Even Phil Jackson acknowledged this saying you can't win a championship without a dominant big man. That might not necessarily be true, but a big man clearly has much more importance than a guard in most cases. Yet players these days that could've been forwards are becoming guards. They develop a guard's game because they think that a guard is the best position to play.

Isn't it weird that there are all these oversized guards, or players that could play PF, but are not suited for it? All those dreaded "tweeners". There are so many of them.

There is a friend of mine who always plays center because nobody else wants to take the role of being a center. The taller guys play guards and never even think about playing the post because to many people it looks ugly. What happened to people appreciating the art of playing forward or center? Nobody really likes centers anymore. People think Shaq is just too fat. People think Duncan is boring. (Sadly, I agree.) People prefer guys like Nowitzki who shoot threes when he's 7'0"?! What is wrong with this world? Maybe after a few years of big men winning championships people will realize...Jordan was an exception..

[Mentally Hilarious]

I think unless people realize that Jordan was an exception to the whole basketball formula for winning, then the league will continue on like this. Centers and forwards win championships. I think I've argued this before and it was met with a lot of resistance. This is because we just remember Jordan and how amazing he was. Even Phil Jackson acknowledged this saying you can't win a championship without a dominant big man. That might not necessarily be true, but a big man clearly has much more importance than a guard in most cases. Yet players these days that could've been forwards are becoming guards. They develop a guard's game because they think that a guard is the best position to play.

Isn't it weird that there are all these oversized guards, or players that could play PF, but are not suited for it? All those dreaded "tweeners". There are so many of them.

There is a friend of mine who always plays center because nobody else wants to take the role of being a center. The taller guys play guards and never even think about playing the post because to many people it looks ugly. What happened to people appreciating the art of playing forward or center? Nobody really likes centers anymore. People think Shaq is just too fat. People think Duncan is boring. (Sadly, I agree.) People prefer guys like Nowitzki who shoot threes when he's 7'0"?! What is wrong with this world? Maybe after a few years of big men winning championships people will realize...Jordan was an exception..

I could see Amare being the bigman changing that outlook since he's so spectacular. So his notion of point center might be the tune of the next 10 years. Even though his athletisicm together with his size is remarkable.