the most "overrated" "underrated" player

[slam37]

There have always been a threads on who are the most "overrated" players, and who are the most "underrated" players. Maybe it's just me, but under both those topics I seem to find a lot players mentioned over and over again. So here I have devised a small list of 3 players, in no particular order, who I feel many people overrate a lot, and who other people often underrate. Anotherwards, let us just give them due credit, and set the record straight!

Allen Iverson - Iverson is a socerer, period. He plays pretty good D and can handle the ball. On the other hand, Iverson has a deathly low shot % and is often selfish with the ball, and sometimes brings uneeded attention to himself. You have the people who claim he is not only the best SG in the league, but also the best player. So what is he? A knight? or a knave? I think it is safe to say Iverson is one of the best at putting the ball in the hoop in the whole league. He plays with passion, something that can be invaluable. He often is greedy and brings a bad attitude. In contrast to Kobe, T-Mac, Peirce, or possibly even Carter, Iverson does lack an overall game (it's simply a fact guys). But he is good. He does do the job, so to say he is horrible for the 76ers isn't right either. Really, as I've said, we should think of Iverson as a great scorer. Nothing less, nothing more. But he is not the best player, nor best SG in the league.

Shareef Abdur Rahim - Let's stop the bullshit with this guy. Reef is not one of the best forwards in the league. He is good, maybe very good, but lacks the presence of a guy like Garnett, Duncan, Webber, Malone (you guys get what I'm saying here? these guys just bring something, almost subliminally, that Reef just doesn't.) The man can score and rebound, plays average D. Too many people still think he lies undiscovered. I really don't think this is the case. He does his job, and does it unspectacularly. His numbers occasionally call for all-star status, but that is never a given. It's time for us to realize that if he isn't "out of the shadow" now, he never will be. I've also heard people underrate him and say he is just an average player... Well 20 pts and 10 boards hardly constitute average... Yes it's true he has never had serious help from the other spots, but I'm willing to wager whether he plays with Kobe Bryant or Bryant Reeves his stats will be very similar. Reef playes good, and is a consistent option, and that's about it.

Karl Malone/John Stockon - We can constitute the players as nearly the same given the age factor and what they have accomplished, and continue to do. While so people do tend tend to live in the past with these fellows and slightly overrate them, I think John Stockton and Karl Malone might be the 2 most underrated players in the NBA. That's right, forget about everyone else. John Stockton puts up better numbers at the point still, above almost everyone else. The Mailman's numbers literally dwarf most PF's #'s, and most of the league for that matter. So why is it everyone wails and smashes the 2 for their great numbers? It's simple. Because they were so damned good in the past. With a lowly 23 pts and 9 boards a game for Malone, and 13 pts and 8 ass for Stockton, these players are "mere shadows" of their former selves. Come on, this is ridiculous. Andre Miller or Mike Bibby put up Stockton type numbers and are touted all-stars. Stockton at 40 does it and is touted age. Anyone else see a problem there? Malone puts up numbers better than Walker, Rahim, often Garnett and Webber, McDyess, and Brand. Yet somehow he is in a major decline and no longer a factor. It really doesn't make sense. I think we truly need to start looking at what a player is doing now, not what he did 10 years ago. Good, hell great stats, are great stats! It's as simple as that!

[Nick]

Good post

[Clinton]

I agree with you about what you said about Iverson. He is a great scorer, average defender and poor shooter. He is definately not the best player in the league. He's up with the best at shooting guard, but his game is nowhere near as complete as Kobe, TMac and Pierce.
Shareef is a great player, it's just that he has been stuck in Atlanta the past couple of years. They got hardly any TV time and lost a lot of games. The same thing happened to Mike Bibby. Played well for a losing team never got noticed got traded to a winning team and all of a sudden he is an allstar. Now that Robinson is Atlanta the Hawks are going to be winning a lot of games, they will even be in the playoffs. All of a sudden everyone will be seeing Reef play and they'll go, "Shit, he's pretty good".

[Brave Sir Rubin]

Allen Iverson - Iverson is a socerer, period. He plays pretty good D and can handle the ball. On the other hand, Iverson has a deathly low shot % and is often selfish with the ball, and sometimes brings uneeded attention to himself. You have the people who claim he is not only the best SG in the league, but also the best player. So what is he? A knight? or a knave? I think it is safe to say Iverson is one of the best at putting the ball in the hoop in the whole league. He plays with passion, something that can be invaluable. He often is greedy and brings a bad attitude. In contrast to Kobe, T-Mac, Peirce, or possibly even Carter, Iverson does lack an overall game (it's simply a fact guys). But he is good. He does do the job, so to say he is horrible for the 76ers isn't right either. Really, as I've said, we should think of Iverson as a great scorer. Nothing less, nothing more. But he is not the best player, nor best SG in the league.

Shit...how many times is this needed to be discussed Selfish...well last year he had to be..this year you see him getting somewhere clsoe to 5 apg, dissing the ball to Mckie and Van Horn alot...he still takes shots, that's his nature, that's how he palys the game...and he scores, scores alot...his presence in neccesary for Philly becouse of his KICK ASS defence (top 5 spg for tha past 3 or more years if i'm not mistaking...), his leadership, which without his altitude wouldn't even exist...his motivation, his great offensive mind, his sacrifices, his knoladge of the game...and ofcourse his scoring...without him the Sixers are just a bunch of 2nd class palyers... He has all what a SG needs to have, quickness (quickest in the NBA), speed (also fastest), sgility, scoring, leadership and D...you're comparing him to SG who have played F...these guys got SF skills such as rebounding, blocking, etc...compare him to true SGs...it's like comparing Divac and Bibby...you can;t say that one is better than the other becouse they play diffrent positions!!!

A knight?

not just a knicks...Brave sir Iverson is one of our bravest

i won't talk about Riff...he might be a bit overrated...

but...

Karl Malone/John Stockon - We can constitute the players as nearly the same given the age factor and what they have accomplished, and continue to do. While so people do tend tend to live in the past with these fellows and slightly overrate them, I think John Stockton and Karl Malone might be the 2 most underrated players in the NBA. That's right, forget about everyone else. John Stockton puts up better numbers at the point still, above almost everyone else. The Mailman's numbers literally dwarf most PF's #'s, and most of the league for that matter. So why is it everyone wails and smashes the 2 for their great numbers? It's simple. Because they were so damned good in the past. With a lowly 23 pts and 9 boards a game for Malone, and 13 pts and 8 ass for Stockton, these players are "mere shadows" of their former selves. Come on, this is ridiculous. Andre Miller or Mike Bibby put up Stockton type numbers and are touted all-stars. Stockton at 40 does it and is touted age. Anyone else see a problem there? Malone puts up numbers better than Walker, Rahim, often Garnett and Webber, McDyess, and Brand. Yet somehow he is in a major decline and no longer a factor. It really doesn't make sense. I think we truly need to start looking at what a player is doing now, not what he did 10 years ago. Good, hell great stats, are great stats! It's as simple as that!

lets start with this...LOL!!!!!!

Malone puts up numbers better than Walker, Rahim, often Garnett and Webber, McDyess, and Brand

Walker...no

RAhim..you himself said he is overrated

Garnett...lol...no!

McDyess...hell i'd put up more than the 0.0 ppg/ rpg/ ect... that that half dead McDyess put up...How the fuck do you expect him to score if he ain't playing...what kind of a moron are you?!

Brand...again...i din't se malone put up 20 and 20 this year...

John Stockton puts up better numbers at the point still

and 13 pts and 8 ass for Stockton

Andre Miller or Mike Bibby put up Stockton type numbers

yet again...bibby is injured!!!!!

Miller might put up these numbers, but they will go up...while stock will probebly need a kane by mid season...



To sumerize this...

Stock amd rough Karl are OLD, bloody OLD, that's why they ain't puttinng up high numbers...and when a player starts playing bad they do a Ewing and retire...and that's exactly what they should do...they were kick ass palyers in the past, for their own sake they sohuld retire...inorder to leave thier stats perfect, and untouched...the Jazz don't have the slightest of chances to get to the finals...they're not even a palyoff team in my eyes... this year for karl and john is just one year taken out of their retirement...which should have been 4 months ago...

[slam37]

Ruben, Iverson has good knowledge of the game? He is everything a leader should be? I'm not going to dignify that with a response, it is just sad.

The season isn't yet 10 games old. I'm not just talking bout this year for Stockton/Malone... Look at last year, or the year before, and the year before... And compare their numbers then. Yes, I realize this goes against what I just said, don't live in the past, but last season is what I feel is relevent to go on until a good 20 or so games has been played. Stockton is better than Bibby healthy or not as well...

Honestly, it's obvious you simply just dislike Malone and Stockton, and that you are an Iverson fan. No one said Iverson was bad... But you show blatent ignorance, and that doesn't mean a damned thing to any of us, period.

[Brave Sir Rubin]

Ruben, Iverson has good knowledge of the game? He is everything a leader should be? I'm not going to dignify that with a response, it is just sad.

get off your lazy ass and respond..be creative..i'm not trying to start a war...i'm trying to start a good solid argument...

The season isn't yet 10 games old. I'm not just talking bout this year for Stockton/Malone... Look at last year, or the year before, and the year before... And compare their numbers then. Yes, I realize this goes against what I just said, don't live in the past, but last season is what I feel is relevent to go on until a good 20 or so games has been played. Stockton is better than Bibby healthy or not as well...

people who change their opinions every day are waek minded......

people are not saying that Tockalone suck in general they're sayin that they suck nOW!!!

Honestly, it's obvious you simply just dislike Malone and Stockton

i do...

and that you are an Iverson fan

i am


yet that makes no diffrence...

But you show blatent ignorance, and that doesn't mean a damned thing to any of us, period.

lol...you didn't support any of the points you made in this post...it was practicly spam.....next time...think before posting...

[Nick]

But you show blatent ignorance, and that doesn't mean a damned thing to any of us, period.

I barely think a n00bie like yourself could speak for ALL of us. That is ignorance...

[Brave Sir Rubin]

I barely think a n00bie like yourself could speak for ALL of us. That is ignorance...

exactly...

rite on nick! power to da people!

[:digerati:]

I think that's Greg DeMilo (or what-ever hehe)...who is far from a newbie...

[Nick]

He is in the new forum ...

[Brave Sir Rubin]

which still doesn't give him a right to say that his opinion counts for the entire forum...unless he has a duplicate personality...

[Sedge]

James Posey seems to be putting up some good numbers and I for one think that I may have underated him myself.

[Nick]

Yeah, Same...Also i think Brian Shaw is underrated...and could possibly be a contender for 6th man...

[slam37]

Well if you wanna know, (I am Greg De Milio) I started posting on the NBLS boards when I was 11. 5 years ago... I just had to resign up for this because of the new forum, that's all.

So you want a post Rubin? Fine.

Iverson, the classic leader. The same man whose teammates have actually held the ball from him to keep him from jacking up poor shots. The great, invulnerable leader who is continully criticized by his coach, and just about everyone else, for being selfish and greedy. The man who is late for practice all the time... A natural, born leader. A guy who throws up more shots than anyone else in the league, and has a often below 40% Fg%. He must be considered alike in the ranks of Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, and John Stockton with his awe-inspiring on the court leadership by taking every shot and missing most of them.

I'm sorry Rubin, have I missed something? A man who continually refuses to share the ball, play with a team, hell, even show up for practice is not a leader. Steals? Iverson isn't a bad defender. But a good one? He contanstly goes for steals (hence the reason he gets so many), which sounds good, except for the 15 times he doesn't get them and McGrady, Pierce, Kobe, Carter, or even a guy like Wesley Person blow right by him to the basket.

Leaders take risks. Iverson looks to take the bullet. Iverson constantly makes excuses and constantly brings shame to himself and the NBA. Either way, looking at his game or his actions off the court, he is a far cry from a leader, period. You defend him as a loyal fan, not as out of neutrality.

As for John Stockton and Karl Malone...

Who cares how old a player is? Except for Michael Jordan, every old player gets a bad rap. And I'm here to say who gives a shit? It's about play. And if you think Stockton, or Malone, play bad, well then you shouldn't be posting on an NBA forum.

Weak minded? That's what you might be for trying to make Iverson a leader. I'm saying you can take the Stockton and Malone argument back to any given point in time, because the same argument has been made, and their stats remain largely the same. 23 points, 8 boards for Malone, and 13 points and 8 assists for Stockton, and they are doing pretty much that right now. It has nothing to do with changing my mind.

Look, you blast an old player cause he is old. That's all you can say. If you think McDyess would avg more than 23 and 8 or so, that's moronic. Brand put up 20 and 20. So did Kwame Brown and Zydrunas Illgauskas, all of course much much better than Karl Malone... Walker? Watch a Celtics game, he is almost like the Iverson of forwards, which is the reason the Celtics will never be a legit threat, because players like Walker are much too inconsistent. 1/10 from the arc. Yup, that's basketball, baby... Garnett could avg 18 and 10 and he'd still be the best PF to half the people out their over Duncan and Webber. If you wanna go by stats at this moment, Duncan isn't above any of the guys mentioned! And we can't say Shaq is the best center, because he isn't playing... That's pretty much what you're saying here, not me.

I

[Sedge]

For some reason I wrote James Posey when I meant Ron Artest. But I think the same is true about Posey.

[Nick]

LOL...Well it worked anyway, didn't it.

Actually I think Posey is doing better (He got a triple-double this season) but Artest is underrated...Yeah. He's a better defender than people think he is.

[Clinton]

Speaking of underrated, Shawn Marion? He is much the same player as both Posey and Artest. They can all score, rebound and defend. They do a lot of the dirty work and don't get much respect for it.

[Nick]

Marion is nor overrated, or underrated...He's rated how he should be rated...a good player...

[Rens]

KICK ASS defence (top 5 spg for tha past 3 or more years if i'm not mistaking...)

That doesn't constitute being a good defender... Glenn Robinson has 1.2 spg over his career.. he's not a good defender. Vince Carter has 1.4spg over his career.. he's not a good defender. Dirk Nowitzki same thing... and others.

Ron Artest's defense is not underrated, everybody acknowledges he is a very good defender.

[JuanDV]

I don't like Utah... i hate watching them play, but i gotta say that they r great players cause they r.

[Brave Sir Rubin]

Well if you wanna know, (I am Greg De Milio) I started posting on the NBLS boards when I was 11. 5 years ago... I just had to resign up for this because of the new forum, that's all.

weeee!!! good for you...

Iverson, the classic leader. The same man whose teammates have actually held the ball from him to keep him from jacking up poor shots.

stick to the topic...we are talking about the present...

The great, invulnerable leader who is continully criticized by his coach

yet again...

selfish and greedy

the two charactersitics that make a good buisnessman (damn...i'll suck being one )

The man who is late for practice all the time

he doesn't need practice...

A guy who throws up more shots than anyone else in the league, and has a often below 40% Fg%

so what? yet he scores and his team wins...

He must be considered alike in the ranks of Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, and John Stockton with his awe-inspiring on the court leadership by taking every shot and missing most of them.

lol...that's his team roel...and again don't compare him with players that are not in his position (and i know that he's a natural PG...but we'rea talkin about the present...)

I'm sorry Rubin, have I missed something? A man who continually refuses to share the ball, play with a team, hell, even show up for practice is not a leader

past...all in the past...

Steals? Iverson isn't a bad defender. But a good one?

ya...he's doing a GREAT job guarding PGs of other teams...

He contanstly goes for steals (hence the reason he gets so many), which sounds good, except for the 15 times he doesn't get them and McGrady, Pierce, Kobe, Carter, or even a guy like Wesley Person blow right by him to the basket.

ehh...no...plus, he's wuick enough to retaliate and guard the palyer again...plus he can do that becouse philly has a great D that will stop that rushing player anyways...(sometimes...can't always stop a player...)

Iverson constantly makes excuses and constantly brings shame to himself and the NBA

shame? lol! i wouldn't give the least bit of a fuck is i bring shame to my school becouse i hate the owners, the rule makers...same with Iverson...he brings em shame? good!

He doesn't need to make excuses becouse he can do whatever he wants...he's not on parol you know...

Who cares how old a player is?

GMs, coaches, etc...

And if you think Stockton, or Malone, play bad, well then you shouldn't be posting on an NBA forum.

ohh thank you...i'll be forever in debt to your priceless advice

If you think McDyess would avg more than 23 and 8 or so, that's moronic.

did i say that? no...so stop puttin words into my mouth...moron...

So did Kwame Brown and Zydrunas Illgauskas, all of course much much better than Karl Malone.

no...but Brand can put up 20 and 15 in many games...

Walker? Watch a Celtics game, he is almost like the Iverson of forwards, which is the reason the Celtics will never be a legit threat, because players like Walker are much too inconsistent.

lol... here's a little lesson in basketball...basketball isn't about making the niceset ofebsive plays or the most kick assive dunks...it's about taking shots, some players take more, so they miss more...makes sense doesn't it...and WAlker being one of the top 5 shooters in the game now justifies your comments as palin idiotic...
inconsistant...lol...he can put up 18+ points every bloody game he plays!

celts haven't been winning since they don't have a solid big man or a PG...

Garnett could avg 18 and 10

Defense...is also a key there...plus i can bet $100 that KG will average much more by the end of the year...

And we can't say Shaq is the best center, because he isn't playing...

ehh...no we can't say that another Center is better than him......but from basical NBA knoladge (which you seem to posses little off) Shaq is the best Center in the NBA.......and he proved it over and over and over, etc...

If you wanna go by stats at this moment, Duncan isn't above any of the guys mentioned!

i'm not going only by stats...you started the stockalone 20 and 8 and 13 and 8 crap...i'm just responding to you in the same form...


anyways

Yeah, Same...Also i think Brian Shaw is underrated...and could possibly be a contender for 6th man...

unrerrated...maybe...6th man...no...

Ron Artest's defense is not underrated, everybody acknowledges he is a very good defender.

exactly...

I don't like Utah... i hate watching them play, but i gotta say that they r great players cause they r.

not that was a smart comment there...everybody...give a huge round of applause to Juan for that one!

[Nitty-25]

I agree with the thought of Shawn Marion. The numbers don't lie. Last year he averaged 19 and 10. This year he averages 18and 10. He is constanly in the top 10 in boards and hes playing the three spot. Ranks #10 in the NBA in Rebounds Per Game(10.6).Ranks #6 in the NBA in Minutes Per Game(41.7)Ranks #11 in the NBA in Free-Throw Percentage(0.913). Just because he is tucked away in phoenix behind Starbury U still have to give da kid his due.[/b]

[air gordon]

if everyone acknowledges that artest is a fine defensive player, he should have made at least the 2nd all defensive team, which he didn't

[Damien War]

If everyone acknowledges that artest is a fine defensive player, he should have made at least the 2nd all defensive team, which he didn't

And if everyone acknowledged Kidd as MVP he would have won it. But yet and still, don't twist it. Alot of real fans were surprised by the fact he didn't win all defensive team.

Yeah, Same...Also i think Brian Shaw is underrated...and could possibly be a contender for 6th man...

I'll admit in 2000 it was arguable about him being underrated. He did alot of things that went unnoticed. Aside from a hell of alot of Oops to The Big Stock Exchange, which coined the phrase Shaw-Shaq Redemption, we relied on his experience to keep a young Laker team from self destructing. He came through for us countless times that season, and you can't forget his big time play in Game 7 versus Portland. But he hasn't got that kind of burn these last three seasons, and consequently hasn't produced near his old level. That game against Washington was reminiscint of what he could do,but he's not going to do things like that consistently anymore.

[magius]

underrated = Scottie Pippen
he does all the things that matter but dont show up on the stat sheet.

overrated = karl malone
i may be a bit bias since i've always hated malone.. not cuz he's good, but because when i look at him.... i cant desciribe it, i just hate thim 8) (and his pointy elbows).
He might be good and put up good numbers, but it doesnt really matter when you cant win a championship. Malone is not dominating, he is just annoying (and selfish too boot)
stockton would've been the same with or without him, utah would've just developed another 'mailman'.