Yao Ming: Top Pick?

[Andrew]

There was time in the NBA that guys who were the top pick came in and started at least 75% of the games they played in their rookie year. They ended up ROY or among the top three in voting. They usually filled a position on a team that was coming off a bad season, so they got plenty of minutes and put up decent numbers.

We know that these days being a lottery pick doesn't guarantee minutes or touches, but this situation with Yao Ming puzzles me. Here's a guy who's shown a lot of promise - officials from several teams couldn't say enough good things about him - he becomes the first player not to attend a US college to be picked first overall, by a team that could really use a dominate centre nonetheless, and then plays an average of 14 minutes in the first five games of the season, scoring 2.6ppg and grabbing 3.6rpg. Not bad for the minutes he's playing but...why isn't he playing more minutes?

It's funny to think that the Houston Rockets had to jump through hoops to get this guy - assuring the CBA that they wouldn't force him to defect, complying with Chinese officials and playing the role of ambassadors for the NBA. After all the hype, all the paperwork, all the frequent flyer miles, he's sitting on the bench, and we're all saying what a waste of a pick, what were the Rockers thinking, and why does a 7'5" guy have only one blocked shot in 5 games?

Kelvin Cato's a decent centre for sure. He's not putting a great deal of points on the board, but he's not an offensive force. He's currently 9th in rebounds per game and 15th in blocks per game, with averages of 11.0 and 2.2 respectively. But Yao Ming, on his size and skill alone, should put up similar numbers in the same amount of playing time, as well as a few extra ppg.

The Rockets went through all that trouble and a first overall draft pick to get him. The least they can do now is play him. He needs a little more than 24 minutes (his season/career high) to show what he can do, before he's unceremoniously written off as a bust.

[Nick]

I often ponder about this myelf...It kind of relates to the Kwame Brown draft in a way...
I think and think but i can never think of a logical reason why they aren't starting this guy...or atleast giving him some more time...

[Matthew]

I think perhaps the Rockets might not think he is ready to play big minutes in the NBA, and possibly if they rush him and he gets abused by the Tim Duncan's and Shaquile O'neal's of the NBA, he might lose his confidence, and that would be a disaster for the Rockets who feel he is their future.
There could be language problems, and Cato is playing well so maybe the Rockets feel that they could make the playoffs with Ming on the bench. But is it worth losing some development of the teams future for a shot at the playoffs? It seems like a catch 22...

[Clinton]

They shouldn't rush him but 10 minutes a game isn't rushing him. He was playing solidly in the World Championships and seemed to be coming along in the preseason, then everything stopped. His minutes got cut at the start of the season. Why? Who knows. But the only way this guy is going to adjust to the NBA game is playing time.

[Matthew]

Not necessarily... He could toughen up in practice and improve his upper body strength and that would help him get prepared for the NBA. But if they were to play him 15 - 20 minutes a game and he isn't producing and is hurting his team by being a defensive liability, would it be better to just bench him and make a run at the playoffs? We don't know how strong Yao is mentally, and if he gets burned he could lose confidence, similar to Vin Baker.

Like Nick said before, this could be a carbon copy of Kwame last season... Maybe its too early to tell?

[Andrew]

It's still way too early to tell how good he is and whether he's a bust or not, but it's funny to think how much trouble the Rockets went through to get him, just to bring him along this slowly. Even though there was always talk that he may not start, I got the impression the Rockets still planned on him making an impact.

[Matthew]

Maybe that was their plan and Yao simply wasn't ready? Only the Rockets know that. He might end up starting before the all-star game if he starts to show signs. Either that or Rudy T are just benching him to avoid Shaq?

[Andrew]

Good point, he might be coming along slower than they expected. Your earlier point about the language barrier is well taken too, I hadn't thought of that. This time next year, he could be tearing up the league for all we know, but until then, I say he should be given a chance, especially if Cato can't keep up his current pace.

[Rens]

Wasn't Cato supposed to be kind of a project as well? He got that big contract based on potential mostly, funny now he has some real competition he starts to show some of his stuff.

[JuanDV]

Yao sucks right now... but i think we should wait...

[JuanDV]

Maybe that was their plan and Yao simply wasn't ready? Only the Rockets know that. He might end up starting before the all-star game if he starts to show signs. Either that or Rudy T are just benching him to avoid Shaq?

Nobody can tell how a player will develope on another league

[Ymakino]

I think there just trying to ease him into it. Yao hasn't experienced a league which is this physical before, so it's a good idea to ease him in. Anyway, I'm pretty sure they'll give him a few more chances after the Allstarbreak.

[Clinton]

Yao sucks right now

He isn't getting the chance to suck. In the limited time he is seeing he isn't playing badly, not that you can make to many mistakes in a few minutes.
This is definately just the Rockets bringing him along slowly and then destroying the league next year. If they get him playing to his potential the league better watch out. He is going to be a force to be dealt with. Just imagine, a player the size of Muresan who actually has skills.

[JuanDV]

Yao sucks right now

He isn't getting the chance to suck. In the limited time he is seeing he isn't playing badly, not that you can make to many mistakes in a few minutes.
This is definately just the Rockets bringing him along slowly and then destroying the league next year. If they get him playing to his potential the league better watch out. He is going to be a force to be dealt with. Just imagine, a player the size of Muresan who actually has skills.

I know he's got skills, but he has to learn to play in the NBA

[scubilete]

Let's face it guys, in the MLB a guy like Yao Ming would have to go back to Triple A to learn how to play, if he needs time to learn, he has to do it in some learning center, this is the NBA, if you're not ready for it, you better don't even try it. Really there are few great centers in the league right now, Olajuwon & Ewing already retired, Mourning injured, you can just count on Shaq & D. Robinson, with the defense of Mutombo, but after all that, Yao hasn't even face those centers and he's showing weekness, Yao of course will stay in the NBA but it will take him 2 or 3 years to become a top center. Do you guys remember all the saying about Shawn Bradley when he was drafted?, yes, wow, 7-6, he moves like D. Robinson, no, the guy was just a Manute Bol, just blocked shots. I consider the time Yao Ming is going to take to become a top Center is not this season but several others, not related for the playing time, those guys who don't go to college are still learning the game, it took Kobe 3 years to be in the starting line up, Shawn Kemp is a good example of getting his time soon but he had a learning year as well. Who's the other one? T-Mac?, same thing.

[:digerati:]

Shawn Bradley is nothing like Manute Bol...Bradley is much much better than Bol ever was...

I hope Yao Ming is not another Kwame Brown, I like to see him actually make significant improvements from this year to next...I think Ming has to not let things rattle him, when he struggles he seems to slump more, physically he could plow over 90% of the centers in the league so he needs to attack more, not only that but he does have that language barrier, and he has been placed into an offense thats guard-centric, Rudy T should bring back some of the old Hakeem-based sets and run them for Yao whenever he's on the floor, and try to maximize Yao's time on the floor...

Yao needs to be a bit more selfish too, hog the ball a bit more in the post, he seems to defer to his teammates a bit too much for my taste, of course that's like knocking Grant Hill for being too unselfish and David Robinson for being soft, since neither player was either...Rudy T, Francis and the rest of them should concentrate on not letting Yao get down AT ALL...give him high fives, etc. no matter how well he plays (or how short you are), keep up the encouragement, that's how KG blossomed so quickly, perhaps a veteran could help out, maybe Rice (because of his name of course) could try to help out Yao, maybe Rudy should bring back Otis Thorpe, KG had Sam Mitchell, Kevin McHale and others to support him even when he showed those rookie mistakes, and showed the teenager mistakes as well...play Yao against big men like Duncan and Shaq, by keeping him off them is telling Yao he's not good enough, he needs to have the confidence...

Yao will add that upper-body strength everyone claims he needs in the coming years, he doesn't need it right now, but he will in a few years...Yao could eaisly get 20ppg and 10rpg now if he got the time and support from teammates...

Probably the only reason he really gets it stuck to him is because of his number one pick status...but Kwame really didn't last year, nor is he this year...Jay Williams isn't getting it this year either...and they're both being outplayed by the best High Skewler out of the draft since Kevin Garnett...Amare Stoudemire...

[DR. P]

BASEBALL, MING, AND THE QUICK HOOK

scubilete I agree with some of what you say, but other parts seem less plausible. For instance, you note:

Let's face it guys, in the MLB a guy like Yao Ming would have to go back to Triple A to learn how to play, if he needs time to learn, he has to do it in some learning center, this is the NBA, if you're not ready for it, you better don't even try it.

First, its important to note that we really aren't talking baseball here, we're talking basketball. And the fact that Ming is struggling is due more to the language barrier and adjustments than anything else. What we should face is the notion that Yao is really just learning the language and the American brand of basketball. Why should he be in a farm system learning the NBA game, when he can be in the big leagues. Remember he's still young and extremely raw but he does have physical tools that you just can't teach. He's got height, decent mobility, and a knack for blocking and changing shots. Factor in that his minutes are limited and that he plays on a team that thinks "shoot first/pass second" and play "outside-in" instead of the converse, and you'd see why Ming has struggled thus far. Just give him time and don't be so quick to pull the plug on raw talent. Had we been so quick to pull the plug on Kobe or T-Mac [who no one thought would be nearly as good as he is and certainly not better than his cousin vince], than they'd be in a farm system still learning the game according to your logic. And that would have been a tremendous waste of time and talent. The same thing goes for Kwame. In just a year look at the positive strides he has made.

A "WORKING" ANALOGY

Just imagine if you worked at an intense job, in another country with another language that you didn't know, and you were asked to jump right in and produce on the "corporate" all-star level for that respective company. And you were young, talented, and possessed raw intellect that was associated with doing well in that particular industry. Wouldn't you want to have some time to adjust to that company? And do you think you could be evaluated effectively if your supervisor was evaluating you the 2nd or 3rd week on the job, despite the language barrier and the new setting? See often times our expectations for athletes often exceed those with which we would put upon ourselves under the exact same circumstances. And this is a textbook example of where that has happened. But, if Ming does improve markedly I can only wonder how many people will jump on the wagon and say they new he'd be a solid player all along.


BOL, BRADLEY, PHENOTYPES AND INVALID COMPARISONS

And finally you noted:

Yao hasn't even face those centers and he's showing weekness, Yao of course will stay in the NBA but it will take him 2 or 3 years to become a top center. Do you guys remember all the saying about Shawn Bradley when he was drafted?, yes, wow, 7-6, he moves like D. Robinson, no, the guy was just a Manute Bol, just blocked shots.

But you make it seem as if Bol was notably bad or that he didn't live up to his expectations. When Bol was drafted he was an oddity, drafted to do just what you mentioned in the quote, "block[ed] shots". And if I recall correctly I believe he's either the league leader [or near the top] all time in that category. Bradley was never really touted or projected to be a dominant force in the NBA. In fact, many people quickly pointed to some of his rather evident shortcomings [e.g., weight, coordination] from the outset, even when he was in college. Ming, in my view is different and deserves a fair evaluation. We shouldn't judge him solely on a comparison to other lack-luster centers in history, based solely on his phenotype, after only a week or two of playing in the NBA.

IF YAO WAS IN THE BIG EAST, WE MIGHT BE CASTING OUR BALLOT FOR HIM MIDSEASON

And ponder this for a moment. If Ming was in the east right now, he'd be battling against the likes of these devistating centers:

Brad Miller, Zeljko Rebraca, Tony Battie, Pat Burke, Mamadou N'diaye and Jamaal Magloire.

And that would be for a Eastern Conference All-star spot. We might even be saying how good of a job he's doing, as opposed to the converse. Instead he's in the west with the better centers [in my view] learning from the school for hard knocks. So lets give him a fair shake before we tear down the great wall of the NBA.

Best,

P

[scubilete]

First, its important to note that we really aren't talking baseball here, we're talking basketball. And the fact that Ming is struggling is due more to the language barrier and adjustments than anything else. What we should face is the notion that Yao is really just learning the language and the American brand of basketball

Not to offend you friend, but if you don't know english, don't go to an english country to say you are the best one in the sport, We are not talking about baseball, but you can see how japanese come to this country and play baseball, let's take basketball, what about Kukoc, Divac, are those guys english native speakers, NO!!!!!!!!!!!, they came and play the league as any other foreign, this year you've seen in the draft more foreign players than ever, and all of them are performing better than Yao Ming, English is basic but you don't need it to shoot a ball.

Also, those centers you mentioned there are kids, none of them score over 20 ppg, when you are talking about someone who can dominate the game, you go with those who can block and score when they are center, Manute bol life avg. was 3.0 ppg & 4 blocks per game as well, not bad but you need to score, that's why is call basket ball*, there's a basket where you have to put the ball thru my friend.

[DR. P]

RUMORS, RUMORS, AND MORE RUMORS

Not to offend you friend, but if you don't know english, don't go to an english country to say you are the best one in the sport, We are not talking about baseball, but you can see how japanese come to this country and play baseball, let's take basketball, what about Kukoc, Divac, are those guys english native speakers, NO!!!!!!!!!!!, they came and play the league as any other foreign, this year you've seen in the draft more foreign players than ever, and all of them are performing better than Yao Ming, English is basic but you don't need it to shoot a ball.

Trust me Scub, no offense it taken. But I'm really curious to know where you got this idea that Yao comes to the US with the notion that he is [or says he is] "...the best in the sport"? I've never heard him say this and moreover, that would really counter the whole culture that he comes from which values collectivism over individualism. Just ask Wang Zhi Zhi who has been barred from playing on his countries national team since he dishonored them by not playing in recent competitions. So I really don't understand where your getting this information [or potential misinformation] from. I've heard Ming say he looks forward to playing against guys like Shaq, Tim Duncan, Robinson, etc., but he's never to my knowledge said he's better than any of them. I'd appreciate a quote from Yao saying something along those lines to actually buy that.

BASKETBALL DOES NOT EQUAL BASEBALL AND A BIT ON NATIVE TOUNGES

And again, we aren't talking about baseball "my friend" we are talking about basketball, which is what this forum is about. There are obvious fundamental differences between baseball and basketball, which you appear to try to skirt in your analogy. Furthermore, you make no point in regards to baseball and only then skip to Kukoc and this bit on native speakers. Remember Kukoc came to the league playing with a championship level team, where he wasn't asked to come in and contribute right away. The bulls had won titles without him, since he was merely icing on the proverbial cake, but you seem to fail to realize that. He wasn't asked to come in and carry the bulls, if anything is was the opposite that was expected to elevate his play. In addition, Divac, though not a native speaker, did not tear up the league when he came in [especially not statistically] and Magic worked tirelessly to get him up to speed. In addition, he was older [I believe] than Yao when he came in and was far from polished. Yet, you seem to want to hold Yao to such standards at this early stage in his career. Do you not see the hypocirsy in such expectations? I know he's a number 1 pick, but at least give him more than 2 weeks to demonstrate his worth.

WHAT YOU DO NEED ENGLISH FOR

And no, you may not need English to shoot a ball, but you do need it to achieve spacing and cohesiveness with your teamates to put you in a better position to score. This is what knowing the language affords you. So when Steve Francis says "post up" or calls out a play, you'll be able to react more effectively. But I assume you already know that.

And yes, the NBA is drafting foreign players at a higher rate, but many of them are quite a bit older than Yao when they come here and are considerably more polished. Again, you fail to take this into consideration [at least in your posts].

THE UNDERLYING ASPECS OF "BASKET BALL*"

that's why is call basket ball*, there's a basket where you have to put the ball thru my friend.

True. But do you deny that there is both "offense" and "defense" in basketball? And just as you should be concerned with scoring, you should also be concerned with stopping the opposition from scoring, since defense does win championships [just ask the MAVS]. And defense is something that Yao already has and I'm sure you'll see that once his minutes are increased. His offense will also come around if your willing to be patient and hold him to the same standards that you'd want others to hold you to "my friend".

And of course, I mean no offense to you either.

Best and good convo,

P

[ilya]

Yao gets like 3-4 fouls in the 14 mins he plays.. he can't play D on this level yet. and his offense is mostly put backs too

give him time
just ask Kwame or Sabas :-d

[Gaucho]

whatever, but dont bash Manute " Thriple Threat" -the real one not that German fluke guy that tried to emulate mully even the hairstyle -

[scubilete]

Trust me Scub, no offense it taken. But I'm really curious to know where you got this idea that Yao comes to the US with the notion that he is [or says he is] "...the best in the sport"? I've never heard him say this and moreover, that would really counter the whole culture that he comes from which values collectivism over individualism. Just ask Wang Zhi Zhi who has been barred from playing on his countries national team since he dishonored them by not playing in recent competitions. So I really don't understand where your getting this information [or potential misinformation] from. I've heard Ming say he looks forward to playing against guys like Shaq, Tim Duncan, Robinson, etc., but he's never to my knowledge said he's better than any of them. I'd appreciate a quote from Yao saying something along those lines to actually buy that.

BASKETBALL DOES NOT EQUAL BASEBALL AND A BIT ON NATIVE TOUNGES

And again, we aren't talking about baseball "my friend" we are talking about basketball, which is what this forum is about. There are obvious fundamental differences between baseball and basketball, which you appear to try to skirt in your analogy. Furthermore, you make no point in regards to baseball and only then skip to Kukoc and this bit on native speakers. Remember Kukoc came to the league playing with a championship level team, where he wasn't asked to come in and contribute right away. The bulls had won titles without him, since he was merely icing on the proverbial cake, but you seem to fail to realize that. He wasn't asked to come in and carry the bulls, if anything is was the opposite that was expected to elevate his play. In addition, Divac, though not a native speaker, did not tear up the league when he came in [especially not statistically] and Magic worked tirelessly to get him up to speed. In addition, he was older [I believe] than Yao when he came in and was far from polished. Yet, you seem to want to hold Yao to such standards at this early stage in his career. Do you not see the hypocirsy in such expectations? I know he's a number 1 pick, but at least give him more than 2 weeks to demonstrate his worth.

WHAT YOU DO NEED ENGLISH FOR

And no, you may not need English to shoot a ball, but you do need it to achieve spacing and cohesiveness with your teamates to put you in a better position to score. This is what knowing the language affords you. So when Steve Francis says "post up" or calls out a play, you'll be able to react more effectively. But I assume you already know that.

And yes, the NBA is drafting foreign players at a higher rate, but many of them are quite a bit older than Yao when they come here and are considerably more polished. Again, you fail to take this into consideration

.

Yo, the first thing he said was he wanted Shaq. that's what ESPN said he meant by whatever he said, if you want to know the truth, you don't need english to know that you're about to get a pass, you don't need english to shoot the ball, you don't even need english to put your shoes on, come on. If you want to know the truth, Yao will carry everyone bags til he has 4 years on the league, and I'm not saying this cause it's too early, I was saying this since the very beggining. If you don't believe it, just watch him, regarding baseball my friend, let's forget that, Im just telling you, foreign players no matter the sport come with no english and are as good as any other, Im not talking about baseball, Im talking about sports.

[scubilete]

The first thing Yao has to get is confidence in the league, and he will not til he gets few years in the league, this is not like go kid and shoot the ball, or block those guys, he will get frustrated running behind Iverson or trying to block him, he will get even more frustrated when he gets Shaq weight on the post and he will see what that's like, lol. He can become a good scorer and better defender, but all I'm saying is not language, other has shown you they are good without knowing that much english. He has to get adapted to the league and he's too young to come here to do what he wants, lol. He's good, sure he will get more playing time, but don't think he's not good cause of English, if that's the case, then He's just retard.

[DR. P]

Scub,

You mentioned:

"Yo, the first thing he said was he wanted Shaq. that's what ESPN said he meant by whatever he said..."

PLEASE DON'T GET IT TWISTED

Again, this was miscontrued by ESPN, who always seem to put a "comical" spin on their sportscenter telecast. I actually saw the webcast for that interview and its translation by an interpreter and Yo said [according to the interpreter] that he welcomed being able to go up against the NBA's best including Shaq among others. If you believe this is saying he's "better" than Shaq then your obviously taking those statements out of context as ESPN did in this case. You make it seem as if he was blatantly calling Shaq out or punking him in some way and this was obviously not the case. In any event, this is open to interpretation.

YOUR POINT IS?.....

But, this statement:

you don't need english to know that you're about to get a pass, you don't need english to shoot the ball, you don't even need english to put your shoes on, come on

clearly shows your digression. What does putting your shoes on have to do with "playing" the game of basketball. Clearly language would have no bearing on that so what's the point? And yes anyone can shoot a ball. But, contrary to your belief, not everyone knows they're about to recieve a pass unless there would be no need to keep stats on "turnovers" if that were the case. Don't you agree? In any event, language is a barrier for any non-native player especially when they are playing overseas for the first time. And it doesn't matter if your Vlade, Muresan, Kukoc, or whom ever and this is well documented. For instance, if you buy Phil Jackson's book you'd read about the difficulties he had with Kukoc and you'd see how your really under-estimating the language barrier. Again, language does indeed play a role in understanding a coach [or anyone for that matter] and his/her instructions. If it didn't then your boy Ichiro and Yao wouldn't need interpreters present during practice. But, I assume you didn't consider that.

FINALLY SOME AGREEMENT, WITHOUT ACKNOWLEDGING LANGUAGE

And finally you note:

The first thing Yao has to get is confidence in the league...he will get frustrated running behind Iverson or trying to block him, he will get even more frustrated when he gets Shaq weight on the post and he will see what that's like... but all I'm saying is not language...He's good, sure he will get more playing time, but don't think he's not good cause of English, if that's the case, then He's just retard.

With the first statement clearly we agree. No argument from me there. But why on earth would he have to run behind iverson and try to block him? Please expand on that idea, since Yao is a center and is stationed in the pivot. Second, frustration is part of the game all players experience, so that's nothing new. And I agree with you "my friend" he will get better with more playing time. But, contrary to your belief, his ability to pick up the English language will be a factor in his development whether you want to acknowledge it or not. And, get real, a language barrier doesn't make you a retard, if you believe that one then you should really question who's the retard in this instance .

Best,

P

[Rens]

P, just getting back to a few minor things:

When Bol was drafted he was an oddity, drafted to do just what you mentioned in the quote, "block[ed] shots". And if I recall correctly I believe he's either the league leader [or near the top] all time in that category.

Hakeem leads this.

IF YAO WAS IN THE BIG EAST, WE MIGHT BE CASTING OUR BALLOT FOR HIM MIDSEASON

And ponder this for a moment. If Ming was in the east right now, he'd be battling against the likes of these devistating centers:

Brad Miller, Zeljko Rebraca, Tony Battie, Pat Burke, Mamadou N'diaye and Jamaal Magloire.

And that would be for a Eastern Conference All-star spot. We might even be saying how good of a job he's doing, as opposed to the converse. Instead he's in the west with the better centers [in my view] learning from the school for hard knocks. So lets give him a fair shake before we tear down the great wall of the NBA.

The center position is so low on talent these days, I think the East matches up with the West quite easily. Some of the players you mentioned aren't bad players at all (Brad Miller, Magloire. Battie and Rebraca coming along with the others being projects) while players who are starting in the West at the moment, such as Nesterovic, Dampier, Collins etc are just as bad. With Shaq out, Divac, Kandi and Robinson and Mutombo seem the only real centers left, 3 out of 4 are in the West, so it's not that big a difference between East and West anymore. I doubt Ming would get a All Star selection in the East this season.