Why do losses reflect on coaches?

[Doobie]

I am sitting down wondering why do losses reflect on coaches?? If it should be the players fault most of the time. Knicks have a situation bothering me . When Issiah was about to fire Lenny because they were on a horrible losing streak , lenny resigned. And now they got a new coach and are still losing . Same thing with Flip Saunders , its not his fault the Wolves are doing bad.

[FendeR`]

Sometimes a new coach with a new philosophy makes the the team play better.

[Jona]

The same goes with coaches that don't fit and wreck a team!

[Full Surface]

The Knicks were a 1-year playoff team that got NYK fans excited about the future. Now they're mediocre again.

[Drex]

Probably because the owners and GM can't fire players (well, they can, but it's not that easy to get rid of players). Also, the coaches are the ones responsible for the system and plays the team use. And if it doesn't work, and the team is losing, change the system

[hedpetcd]

I am sitting down wondering why do losses reflect on coaches?? If it should be the players fault most of the time. Knicks have a situation bothering me . When Issiah was about to fire Lenny because they were on a horrible losing streak , lenny resigned. And now they got a new coach and are still losing . Same thing with Flip Saunders , its not his fault the Wolves are doing bad.

you're right about the players deserving the blame in some situations, but as for the Knicks, the problem with them, is that Isaiah Thomas is an idiot.

[ShivaSquad]

I am sitting down wondering why do losses reflect on coaches?? If it should be the players fault most of the time. Knicks have a situation bothering me . When Issiah was about to fire Lenny because they were on a horrible losing streak , lenny resigned. And now they got a new coach and are still losing . Same thing with Flip Saunders , its not his fault the Wolves are doing bad.

you're right about the players deserving the blame in some situations, but as for the Knicks, the problem with them, is that Isaiah Thomas is an idiot.

amen

[Jona]

We should start an "Isaiah Thomas Hate Thread" dude...

[Matthew]

Theres already about 50 of them. Isiah thomas wasnt "about to fire" lenny wilkens. Lenny Wilkens retired due to family problems.

The fact of the mater is the Knicks were in alot worse shape before Isiah came in. No marbury. No crawford. All they had was KVH nad Allan Houston.

[hedpetcd]

Theres already about 50 of them. Isiah thomas wasnt "about to fire" lenny wilkens. Lenny Wilkens retired due to family problems.

The fact of the mater is the Knicks were in alot worse shape before Isiah came in. No marbury. No crawford. All they had was KVH nad Allan Houston.

No disrespect, but you're naive if you don't think Lenny's job was in jeapordy.

Wilkens "retiring due to family problems" is code for "wasn't getting the job done, but because Lenny IS who he is, and because Thomas is close with Lenny, the Knicks gave him the option of resigning, rather than having to fire him"

Personally, I don't think the additions of Marbury and Crawford are worth anything. Marbury is a loser(he said so himself) and Crawford is an under-sized gunner, without a clue as to what defense is.

He's young and very talented, yes. All I see him as though, is a talented guy on an extremely bad team, jacking up loads of shots. So of course he's gonna put up numbers.

Allan Houston is over the hill, making WAAAY too much money for his production.


so ya, the Knicks were bad pre-Thomas, but I struggle to see any improvement.

[Matthew]

No disrespect, but you're naive if you don't think Lenny's job was in jeapordy.

None taken, I agree lenny was in danger. However, I think he retired from coaching becuase of his family problems. Lenny has never been one to lie to save face, and thats what your saying here. Also all you're going on is you're own opinion, Im going on what Lenny himself said. There is a difference...

Personally, I don't think the additions of Marbury and Crawford are worth anything. Marbury is a loser(he said so himself) and Crawford is an under-sized gunner, without a clue as to what defense is.

Marbury also said he is the best pg in league, so you cant take what he says seriously. Marbury and crawford are worth a hell of a lot more than frankj williams, howard eisley and antonio mcdyess- the players they gave up for marbs and crawford.

He's young and very talented, yes. All I see him as though, is a talented guy on an extremely bad team, jacking up loads of shots. So of course he's gonna put up numbers.

Somthing tells me you havent seen much knicks games. Dont believe what you read in the papers all the time. Crawford doesnt just run down the court and jack shots up.

Allan Houston is over the hill, making WAAAY too much money for his production.

Thats hardly Isiah's fault..

so ya, the Knicks were bad pre-Thomas, but I struggle to see any improvement.

Bottom line: They were worse pre isiah. With Isiah, they made the playoffs last season, and were on track to do so this year before injuries struck. Like philly before they made the webber deal, they are just one big move like that away.

[Fresh8]

GM's need to be smart and find players that fit into their coach's systems... or they need to find a coach who likes the players they got... else nothing will work.

[Matthew]

But theres only so much you can do. Isiah has done an excellent job in getting marbury and crawford while only giving up role players who didnt do anything. I have no idea why knicks fans dont like him... maybe its easier to pin all the blame onto one person.

[NNpF]

I think it's just that he spent so much on this team and yet they're barely making it into the playoffs.

And to tell you the truth, that's not something I would be too happy about either.

He may or may not pick up someone who could help the team in the draft, but the thing us, he can't make any major free agent pick ups.

So the Knicks may be stuck with a trigger friendly backcourt with no inside presence and an underachieving SF for years to come. And that's why I think a lot of people don't like Isiah.

[Matthew]

He hasnt spent any money with the exception of crawford, who was in a sign and trade, so he didnt add to cap, he just replaced players with crawford. The Knicks havent been in a position to pick up any free agents since they signed houston in 1996. Its not like isiah came in and spent all their money.

[hedpetcd]

the problem is, Isaiah has, rather than unload the large contracts, he's continually, REPLACED the large contracts with players who usually have many years still left on their deals.

this is why Isaiah has thus far been a failure, and why many Knicks fans are tiring of his act.

obviously the trade restrcitions make it difficult a task, but that's his job. its what he's supposedly, supposed to be doing.

[Matthew]

Assuming Isiah didnt make any deals, and let the contracts run out, they would still be over the cap. Instead, he has obtained Marbury, Crawford, and a few draft picks. The knicks were in such bad cap situation its amazing he got marbury and crawford considering what he had to work with.

Real Knick fans, like Jeffx, understand the real problem is the knicks owner.

[hedpetcd]

there's no doubt, Knicks ownership hasn't a clue.

the hiring of Isaiah as GM is just another example

[Fresh8]

Well.. Isiah had two choices. Try to get young guys with huge contracts and a few draft picks or wait to offload thos huge contracts and sustain a few years of badness. But since New York is such a force in terms of marketability, winning games short term comes first.

Isiah is stuck with a team he needs to try to make enterttaining yet also win. He doesn't IMO have a choice about goign bad now then awesome i nthe long run. It's just how it is.

[Andrew]

I too believe that the main reason coaches get most of the blame is the old "you can't fire all the players but you can fire the coach" adage. But (most) players do respond to good coaching and if a coach doesn't have the confidence and respect of his players, he's not going to be able to do a good job; no matter how brilliant his basketball mind.

Phil Jackson has opined that players will only listen to the same coach for a certain amount of years, though right now I can't remember the exact number - I want to say seven, though I can't be sure. I don't think that holds true for everyone, but great coaches who have been around the NBA for 20, 30 years have generally coached more than one team.

I know that some coaches in the college ranks have piloted the same team for a couple of decades, but I don't think any NBA coach has had as long a tenure with a single team. Al Attles has been with the Warriors organisation for some 40 years, but that includes his days as a player, coach and executive.

[Fresh8]

Phil said its only about 4 years. And he said he was lucky MJ took that 2 year break so that they could work well together again. Thats wat im hoping with Kobe if Phil were to ever come back.

[cyanide]

Except for the fact that I don't think Phil had a problem with Jordan, and that Phil did have a big problem with Kobe.

[Colin]

Isiah was stuck with a team that had a fucked up cap situation, and had no chance of being without a situation like that for a number of years. Sp why not try to get some talent with the money you're forced to spend, then leaving your team with shit players making too many millions. He just realized that there's no hope and he might as well try to be at least mediocre for the 3-4 years before contracts expire.

And nothing is Marbury's fault. I will huint you down and kill if you speak like that again. Give Marbury a young talented team and they end up providing the biggest challenge for the NBA champs (see: Phoenix Suns, 2002-2003). Give him an injured team or a team of underachievers and you won't see anything (see: Phoenix Suns, 2003-2004/New Jersey Nets/New York Knicks).