Chicago Bulls Thread

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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:52 pm

Andrew wrote:I was talking about conversations here in the Forum when it comes to the Niko hype. I'd definitely take anything GarPax said with more than a grain of salt, though I might have to grudgingly hand it to them as far as Markkanen is concerned.

Ah fair enough, I don't quite remember those myself (I certainly wasn't high on Mirotic at all, rated McBuckets higher). Mirotic is certainly no superstar if that was the perception around here or from GarPax, but I reckon as far as a stretch big off the bench, he's better than Portis who I just don't rate at all.

Agreed on Markkanen, pleasantly surprised there; but when I think of the fact that he was traded to us for Jimmy Butler I still want to puke.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:09 pm

They could've done so much better with that deal. Not holding onto their own pick so that they could double-dip in the first round was a mistake, as was passing up Jordan Bell. Surely, they could've got Minnesota to agree to the Butler trade without giving up the pick as well. Ah well. What's done is done, but it does stand as an example of why it's difficult to have faith in their ability to make shrewd moves, or even "short term pain for long term gain" types of deals. Hard to trust their version of The Process.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:55 pm

Andrew wrote:They could've done so much better with that deal. Not holding onto their own pick so that they could double-dip in the first round was a mistake, as was passing up Jordan Bell. Surely, they could've got Minnesota to agree to the Butler trade without giving up the pick as well. Ah well. What's done is done, but it does stand as an example of why it's difficult to have faith in their ability to make shrewd moves, or even "short term pain for long term gain" types of deals. Hard to trust their version of The Process.

Absolutely, and I would even argue that short of a top 3 pick straight up we shouldn't have traded Jimmy Buckets at all.
We are supposedly rebuilding, he's nowhere close to being old, he's one of the best two way players in the world who has continuously gotten better, he's still got a few years left on a very very team-friendly contract....why trade him? Build around him instead?

Again, very happy with Markkanen, but as a franchise player he's not even close to Jimmy Buckets.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:27 pm

Apparently he was unpopular in the locker room? I guess a guy who knocks out his teammate and gives them a concussion is a much friendlier bloke, all things considered. :crazy:
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:57 pm

Andrew wrote:Apparently he was unpopular in the locker room? I guess a guy who knocks out his teammate and gives them a concussion is a much friendlier bloke, all things considered. :crazy:

If the franchise player is "unpopular" in the locker room, I'd get rid of every last one of those players who have issues with said franchise player, not the other way around.

Then again, it's GarPax. I'm not surprised.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:33 pm

I mean, that would be the logical course of action, but yeah...GarPax.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:37 am

haha was that me saying niko could be pau gasol?

Valor wrote:Neither of them has "great" trade value, not after what happened. Everyone knows Bulls aren't in a good position to bargain anyways, and knowing GarPax, they'll screw it up even if they have a good bargaining position (see: Gibson, Rose, Butler trades).

The only area of Portis' game I've been impressed by is the improved (ironically) discipline with regards to fouls. Absolute foul machine before, much better now.

Nwaba has certainly surprised, I'd like to see more before giving a verdict.

this is true. no one gave Niko a contract offer in the offseason so he got stuck here. but there is still the chance a playoff bound team would slightly overspend to get some scoring off the bench. also the bulls still have cap to take on more salary in a trade so there are some options there. now with the current management getting a "good" deal done is another story ;)

Valor wrote: Again, very happy with Markkanen, but as a franchise player he's not even close to Jimmy Buckets.

haha let the flower grow. butler was a 4yr college player and then made himself into a franchise player 4 years into the league. it's really a big surprise to me at least that Markkanen is as skilled as he is at his age.

surprised not to hear you guys bitching about hoiberg lately ;)
early verdict to keep around for the rebuild- dunn, markkanen, lavine, nwaba
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:47 am

I mean, when it comes to Hoiberg, what else can we say that hasn't already been said? I'm all for occasionally grumbling, but no need to beat a dead horse in every single post. I'm sure we all have a few barbs left in us, though.

Agreed on keeping those players, definitely a lot of promise and potential there. As it is, they're already showing they can play. I was pessimistic about Dunn as you know, but he's winning me over with these good performances.

That Jordan Bell quote in your signature is gold, too. I'm going to post it here so it can be preserved:

During opening introductions, Jordan Bell made curious gestures with his hands, which he admitted after the game were meant to symbolize rubbing money together. "I wanted to see how cash considerations was doing over there," Bell said.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:15 am

So what’s your evaluation of him this season? I’d say some credit is due to Hoiberg. The team had really tough losses where they blew their lead in the 4th last week and have responded nicely. overall their effort has been good.

Also the development of Dunn, Portis, and Nwaba… keeping the Portis-Niko situation under control...


As long as Bell is in the league producing for a stacked team like GSW, i won't let garpax off on that one.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:59 am

Sure, I doubt they've won the past five games in spite of him. I don't rate him as one of the best coaches in the league and he's a puppet for GarPax, but credit where it's due.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:47 pm

air gordon wrote:haha let the flower grow. butler was a 4yr college player and then made himself into a franchise player 4 years into the league. it's really a big surprise to me at least that Markkanen is as skilled as he is at his age.

Oh for sure, nothing against Markkanen at all, and he could really be a special player (certainly has looked the part) and I can't wait to see that development coming. But what we got for a 24 ppg scorer who just happens to be a top 3 perimeter defender in the league is pitiful to say the least.

Andrew wrote:I mean, when it comes to Hoiberg, what else can we say that hasn't already been said? I'm all for occasionally grumbling, but no need to beat a dead horse in every single post. I'm sure we all have a few barbs left in us, though.

Couldn't agree more.

With regards to the win streak, I read this somewhere earlier and don't recall where it was from, but it was a summary of the Bulls and I reckon it's bang on accurate.

"Bulls will disappoint their fans by tanking, then disappoint them further by suddenly going on a meaningless win streak and sabotage their lottery odds." - something like this, and that's how I feel about the recent streak.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:25 am

It's rare for a team to still be in the league basement after a 5 game winning streak but the bulls have managed to do it

I'm not worried about the tank. Garpax can always trade Lopez, delay lavine's return, force CP22 into the lineup when he's healthy etc to keep the tank rolling

I'd rather see them play like this vs them failing to score 80pts, streamers coming down after a win like during the last rebuild
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Sauru on Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:20 pm

Valor wrote:
Andrew wrote:Apparently he was unpopular in the locker room? I guess a guy who knocks out his teammate and gives them a concussion is a much friendlier bloke, all things considered. :crazy:

If the franchise player is "unpopular" in the locker room, I'd get rid of every last one of those players who have issues with said franchise player, not the other way around.

Then again, it's GarPax. I'm not surprised.



depends in my opinion. some "franchise players" are just stat whores and you never should have been building around them in the first place
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:58 pm

Sauru wrote:
Valor wrote:
Andrew wrote:Apparently he was unpopular in the locker room? I guess a guy who knocks out his teammate and gives them a concussion is a much friendlier bloke, all things considered. :crazy:

If the franchise player is "unpopular" in the locker room, I'd get rid of every last one of those players who have issues with said franchise player, not the other way around.

Then again, it's GarPax. I'm not surprised.



depends in my opinion. some "franchise players" are just stat whores and you never should have been building around them in the first place

Carmelo Anthony, for instance? :cool:
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:36 am

6 wins and counting. ay yay yay. the tank is officially hitting a bump but still only 2.5 ahead of bottom heap.

76ers should have won that one. nice for a change its the bulls coming through in the 4th and the other team crapping the bed
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:44 am

I don't think I've been this impressed by an overachieving Bulls team since the 2005 squad ran off eight or nine wins in a row. :lol:

I'm sure they'll come back to Earth in short order, and return to being Tank Commanders.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:50 am

Niko is playing out of his mind atm, so definitely will come back to reality soon imo. No way he can keep this up :lol:
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:39 am

same thing with Portis. up the trade value, baby!

i say they get to 7 in a row against an Orlando Magic team missing multiple key players ;)
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:34 pm

Looks like the Celtics game has been picked up by ESPN Australia. I'm hoping for a win in that one, just so that the lone game I'll probably get to catch live in its entirety is a good one. Then they can go on a big losing streak again. (Y)
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:35 am

Bulls are the first team to follow up 10 game losing streak with a 7 game winning streak. And that win streak was longer than any Thibs had when he was here. Wow

And lavine will be coming back.

I know you guys Just ripped on the butler trade. Still feel the same?
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:53 am

I still feel the same about the Butler trade, but maybe I didn't give Mirotic enough credit. 8-2 since he returned to the lineup.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:54 am

you must not think much of markkanen and dunn. even i have to admit the deal is getting closer to even by the way those 2 have been been playing

i think having a legit rotation player returning in niko (and portis improving) has been very helpful purely based on the fact it bumps down the crap on the roster further down the depth chart. zipster doesn't have to play big minutes, felecio stays on the bench, etc. even someone like Nwaba to give them minutes when valentine is crap.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:47 pm

Definitely still feel the same. Dunn and Markkanen looks good, sure; but JB was, and still is an all-NBA caliber player. They got 3 rotational players with one unknown rookie, one still suffering from a major injury, and another prospect who largely underwhelmed in his rookie season for JB AND a first round pick. That trade will forever be shit unless Markkanen turns out to be Dirk 2.0 as I've said before.

and don't get me wrong, I was a Dunn fan before his draft and still is. Love me some European players too. Still doesn't justify the stupidity of GarPax giving up an all-nba player to move up a few spots.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:13 pm

What were the alleged better deals out there? It’s rare to see superstar players get traded for each so if you were thinking they were going to get one back, that was a letdown waiting to happen. Yes i agree they should have not added their pick to the deal but it was a non lottery pick so i won’t lose sleep over it. Who could they have picked aside from kuzma?! Can’t count collins with all the PF’s on the roster

Now that we have a little time for some perspective, the George and Butler trades are similar. The players included in the trade were perceived as not even close in value then but now those players are playing well.

And are you saying regardless of what dunn and lavine become, it’s all on Markkanen to make the butler trade non shit? That makes no sense. Tough crowd. I’m prolly the biggest butler fanboy here but i can see past my hatred for the bulls management.

Really its the other moves management has made that makes the butler trade look worse initially- poor drafting before this one, wasting money on rondo and wade, getting bent over by OKC in the gibson trade.

and how about that jerian grant. he's playing very well as the backup pg. definitely playing with more confidence and aggressiveness (Y)
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:57 pm

I don't agree with you on the George deal comparison. Paul George was on the last year of his contract and thus the Pacers have no leverage over the other teams who want him. Butler was/is on a very team friendly deal that goes on for a few more seasons yet. Massive difference in trade value there. It wouldn't have been a good trade even if they had kept their own pick, but giving that one up as well? Damn.

From what I remember, Cavs were dangling Kevin Love as a centerpiece for JB, Celtics and Suns were very much interested (and I'm guessing it'll involve their picks, much higher than what we got from Minnesota obviously), while we know for sure that the Sixers turned down a #3 for JB deal after they chose the Celtics' offer. All of these are more worthy than what we got. Again, you have to look at the fact that JB is an All-NBA player entering the beginning of his prime who is on a long term, team friendly deal (and imo a much better player than PG.) Getting 3 serviceable players only for him AND a first rounder is shit no matter how you look at it, unless of course all 3 of them turn out to be HOF players or 10 time all stars etc, and I don't see that happening.

Let's break it down. Dunn has potential and is playing better than his rookie season, I'll give you that; but it's early days and we don't know if he can sustain it, after all, the sample size from his underwhelming rookie season is larger than the current 20 something games he's played for us - this is coming from a Dunn fan in myself.

LaVine's already had 3 years in the league, sure he's been getting better and can get you about 18 a game and is a good shooter, but he's still woeful on the defensive side of the floor and coming off an ACL injury. At best he'll be a sixth man scorer on a playoff team.

Markkanen has had a good start, love the kid, but Mirotic had a great start to his rookie campaign too. What happened to him the last few seasons? It's only now that he's playing good ball again and we don't know if it'll sustain.

This isn't hatred for GarPax (although there's a ton of that around), but rather objectively assessing the deal on all aspects and seeing how utterly shit it was.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:05 am

I agree to a degree. There was less leverage on the George trade since George said he wanted to be traded

I don’t remember any of the rumors having any legs IIRC as reported by “insiders” in the days leading to the Butler trade. There were talks with Ainge but he maintained his hard stance of not including the Brooklyn pick or any top pick. Love? Meh. just the #3 pick for the all american Butler. Meh too. what trade out there would have you happy for a bulls team that was rebuilding?! for as great as butler is, i did not see one legit rumor that involved someone close to his level.

I agree the trade was bad at the time it was made but if you think the trade is still shit you are losing you're objectivity. the trade looks even worse when you’re taking a pessimistic point of view for your breakdown.

Yeah it remains to be seen on whether any young player can sustain good or bad level of play. If you want to downplay whatever Dunn and Markannen have done, regardless if you’re a “fan”, that’s fine too. It doesn’t make for much of discussion though if you discount Dunn is closing out games scoring crucial points, making big defensive plays. Or Markannen displaying a very well rounded scoring game in his rookie year and showing good defensive fundamental.. And these are in games that matter unlike say Elfrid Payton who averaged a near triple double in the last month of the season. I wouldn't bother making a discussion of this if those guys were playing like garbage.

I’m not sold on Lavine either though I’m not sure you can put a “cap” on him like say like Luol Deng. He’s still only 22.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:23 pm

I find myself feeling conflicted about their relative success since Mirotic returned. On one hand, seeing your favourite team win is more enjoyable than watching them lose, and it's good to see that there are players with a lot of potential already on the roster. You want to instil that winning mentality and have the players who are likely going to be building blocks learn how to win, even as the team is undergoing a tough rebuilding phase. At the same time, wins bring them closer to mediocrity, which doesn't help a team that is going to need to rebuild through the Draft. As it stands, they've gone from far and away the worst record in the league to only the sixth worst.

It goes against the plan of bottoming out, but at the same time, I want to see them trying their best and not actively trying to lose games. So yeah, I'm conflicted. It's nice to see them having these stretches where they're picking up some impressive wins and playing well, but on the other hand, it's not helping them in the long run because they're going to need to get a top player or two through the Draft. So...Go Bulls, sort of?

On a different note, two years ago today:

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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:15 am

Player development is the biggest key IMO

Prefer to see them playing well during the season when the games still count.

don't want to see this turn into a toxic situation like PHX.

Don't think this group is good enough to play themselves out of the top 10 anyway. And management can still step in and get the tank on track
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:02 am

Good point.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:25 am

Good double OT win over NY, this stuff gives a ton to young player confidence and it's good to see.

But we really need to get back to losing, F grade on the tank job atm as we are on track for about 30 wins and a late lottery pick. :x Road to Doncic is not looking good atm
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:18 am

Markkanen's eight threes apparently tied Dirk for the most by a seven footer. Good company.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:10 am

Looks like Mirotic is on the way out, and as per this report that Valor alerted me to, won't play until he's traded. I'm sure that'll help his value and the team's leverage in a trade.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby shadowgrin on Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:50 pm

His potential destination is reported to be the Pelicans.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:47 pm

I heard that too, for Omer Asik of all players. Latest report is that the deal fell apart.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Jackal on Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:54 am

Deal has gone through from what I read. Monroe is probably headed to the Pelicans too. Not a bad rotation of Monroe/Davis/Mirotic with the Cousins injury.

How many years does Asik have left on that contract?
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:34 pm

Just read the full breakdown of the deal.

The Pelicans are sending center Omer Asik, guards Tony Allen and Jameer Nelson and a future first-round draft pick to Chicago, which will send New Orleans’ 2018 second-round pick back to the Pelicans, league sources said. As part of the deal, the Pelicans will guarantee Mirotic’s $12.5 million team option for the 2018-19 season, league sources said. Mirotic signed a two-year contract in free agency last summer, which gave him rights to veto any trade for a year if the team involved didn’t guarantee the option.


I guess the first round pick is the best part for the Bulls, though it's hard to get excited about that right now. In the more immediate future, they're giving up a pick, and who knows when or how good that future pick will be. If the Luol Deng has taught us anything, it's that GarPax are terrible when it comes to handling conditions on picks. Also, Nelson and Allen are free agents at the end of the season, but Asik's contract runs a couple more years.

I wasn't under the delusion that they were going to get a great haul for Mirotic, but I was hoping for a bit more shrewdness and savvy. Taking on bad contracts and giving away picks to sweeten deals while getting future picks that may well be worthless isn't a great rebuilding strategy. Keeping the guy who punched out a teammate, especially when he's the lesser talent, is also highly questionable to say the least.

It just doesn't seem like they have a plan or much smarts, though they're certainly convinced of their own genius. Granted, Dunn and LaVine are looking like good pick-ups, and Markkanen is having a very promising rookie season, but at this point I'm waiting for them to mess it up somehow; say, trading Markkanen and an unprotected first round pick to OKC for Carmelo Anthony. Whenever they do make a good move, I'm waiting for the bad one that follows.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:44 am

Adios and best wishes to Niko. It was a magical March and the pump fakes will be missed.

Good deal by the bulls. Got a 1st round possible late lottery pick for a player they didn’t want in the first place this past offseason and asked out of town since getting his face punched in

Asik’s contract is only guaranteed an additional $3mil after next year so that pill is an easy one to swallow *cough cough Mozgov ;)

Its being reported the bulls used the trade exception from the butler trade in this Niko trade thus creating another trade exception to use/ open the possibility to take on a contract for another pick.

I have to give credit to the management. The return on the Butler trade, the Nwaba signing, and now getting a 1st round pick for Niko.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:55 am

When you can't beat the Los Angeles Rivers, you know that Operation Tank is back on track.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:52 pm

Andrew wrote:When you can't beat the Los Angeles Rivers, you know that Operation Tank is back on track.

Poorly run team vs poorly run team, poorly run team loses! :lol:
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:57 pm

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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:52 pm

Close loss to the Kings without Markkanen, but it contributes nicely to the Great Bottoming Out of 2018, while still showing some level of competitive fire. Zach LaVine looked pretty good with that dunk.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:45 am

thoughts on the rebuild so far?
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:51 am

Still some work to do falling down the standings after that run put them ahead of other bottoming out teams.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:01 pm

this fall in the standings doesn't happen if Dunn's injured *no pun intended* and Markkanen is out. i'm curious to see what other steps management will take to keep the tank rolling.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:09 pm

Insist that Payne be called up, start him at point guard. If that doesn't lead to the losses piling up, nothing will.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:55 am

that's just asking for Portis to smash his face in
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Jackal on Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:59 am

That might lead to even more wins and team cohesion.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:12 am

could still trade lopez and holiday. that could put the tank in full throttle
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:16 am

As long as they're not giving up any picks and getting some in return, and not taking on any bad contracts, no harm in thinning the roster to keep bottoming out. As it is though, they've lost seven straight, so I feel like they've already got the talent (or lack thereof) to get the job done.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:46 am

i'm fine with them taking on a contract like Asik's if they are getting a 1st round pick back

kudos to the management (again lol). what a coup for them to the get the pick from the Pelicans. Memphis could not land a 1st round pick up for Tyreke Evans and ended up keeping him, the Suns acquired Payton for a 2nd round pick(!)

Andrew wrote: As it is though, they've lost seven straight, so I feel like they've already got the talent (or lack thereof) to get the job done.

you think so? the losses coincide with Dunn's absence.

the Vonleh acquisition was ok. they didn't give up anything or take on bad salary. why not give the former top 10 pick a 20 something game tryout. let him go if he doesn't impress
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