Shaq vs Hakeem

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Shaq vs Hakeem

Postby Andrew on Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:49 pm

No, not that pay-per-view event that never happened due to Hakeem's ailing back - simply a comparison of the two. Hakeem was arguably the centre of the 90s, and while Shaq was a dominant force during that decade, the "zeroes" have really been his time.

While they both possess skills that are rare in players their size, there are some obvious differences between the two. Everyone should be familiar with Shaq and his greatest assets - his size, his strength, and his ability to use them. His agility, even though it has suffered due to injuries, age and added bulk, is still much greater than you would expect from a man of his dimensions.

Gary Payton said that Shaq made other grown men look like boys, and that's not a bad assessment. His might makes other players who are legitimate big men look powerless. The finer points of his game such as his hook and other low post moves have come along since he first entered the league, but his ability to utilise his awesome strength remains his most devastating weapon.

Hakeem Olajuwon was no weakling, but he used a different approach to dominate opponents. Shaq might make other centres look small, but Hakeem made talented NBA centres look as though they'd never played basketball in their lives.

He could make David Robinson, a talented player and an incredible athlete for his size look clumsy. He could make centres noted for their defensive prowess like the Georgetown Three of the 90s - Ewing, Mourning and Mutombo - look completely baffled when matched up against him in the post. He had a diverse offensive game that could keep the defense guessing. He could utilise his strength and size, but finesse and a dazzling array of moves were his weapons of choice.

Head to head, they both have impressive resumes. Shaq has three titles in five Finals appearances, Hakeem has two in three appearances (including a defeat of Shaq and the Magic in 1995). Hakeem has three MVP awards (one regular season, two NBA Finals) to Shaq's five (one regular season, three NBA Finals, one All-Star shared with Tim Duncan), but Hakeem has two Defensive Player of the Year awards and has a slight edge in All-NBA selections.

Hakeem's injury plagued final seasons have made a dent in his career numbers, though Shaq has been the more dominant scorer throughout his career. Hakeem still holds the advantage in career blocks per game and steals per game.

When they matched up in the 1995 NBA Finals, both put up impressive numbers:

Hakeem: 32.8 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 5.5 apg
Shaq: 28.0 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 6.3 apg

Hakeem was probably the better passer, though Shaq has a higher career assists per game average and a slightly higher career high mark (3.7 to 3.6). Hakeem is hands down the better free throw shooter and had longer range on his jumpshot, but Shaq still has a higher career points per game average.

Hakeem had the vastly superior post game, with plenty of moves and fakes thanks to superior footwork, but Shaq's post game is certainly dominant relying simply on a couple of moves he's developed well and his tremendous strength. Both are exceptional ballhandlers for big men, though Hakeem has a slight edge here. Hakeem is probably the better all around defensive player, though Shaq commits fewer fouls per game.

As far athleticism goes, I would give Hakeem the nod though as I said before Shaq has remarkable agility and athleticism for someone who is 7'1" and over 320 pounds. He is somewhat limited in ways that Hakeem was not, however, so I would considered Hakeem the superior athlete. Hakeem's footwork is certainly superior.

So...

All things considered, who do you think is the better player? The most dominant? Is Shaq's dominance through size and might equal, superior or inferior to Hakeem's dominance through diverse talents and amazing footwork? Which would you rank above the other?

I'll post my answer and my reasoning after a few other people get involved. ;)
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Postby magius on Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:29 pm

this is a difficult question because i like hakeem a lot more than i like shaq. But when I look at the numbers it seems like shaq has shown a consistent display of dominance for at least a period of ten straight years (discluiding rookie season, last season), hakeem seems to have only hit his true prime in his 30s and sustained it for only 4 years. That said, hakeem was also a better defender than shaq ever was, so that in turn could be said to even out the point differentials throughout many of hakeems earlier seasons, and made his prime seasons offensively (93-96) exceed even shaqs 2000 season.(26ppg, 13rpg, 4.2bpg, 1.8spg, 3.5apg > 29.7ppg, 13.6rpg, 2.9bpg, 0.4spg, 3.8apg imo). Then again, shaq is still only 31 and already has played 158 playoff games vs hakeems 145 throughout a career, and that in turn again says something.

If i were a gm and both were the same age in the same draft year with insight on the future, based on pure talent, with the assumption that both would be eqaully loyal, and media personality aside, I would pick shaq because he would give me more years of consistent dominance. But, hakeem was also a better example, didn't whine, did what you asked him ala duncan, and if those could be taken into consideration I would easily choose hakeem over shaq. But, your not asking that, your asking who's the better player. Well, hakeem in his prime was a better player than shaq in his prime, because hakeem was dominant on both sides. Who was more dominant? It depends on what you mean by dominant. Offensively, shaq. Defensively, hakeem. All-around? Hakeem.
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Postby j.23 on Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:11 pm

i love both players.. it's a really a toss up offensively if you argue who the better player is.. both could give you 20 any given night, had the ability to make their teammates better (hakeem with cassell, horry, elie, drexler etc.) (shaq with dennis scott, fisher, rice, penny and of course kobe) hakeem relied more on wits, footwork and fundamentals while shaq did so with raw power.. both of them were equally good at putting points on the board, although they had different ways to do it.

defensively, i would give this to hakeem. shaq's not a shabby defender at all.. the guy's a good shot blocker and he can easily alter people's shots because he's so damn tall.. having said that i've seen him have his share of lapses. i've caught him just standing and looking while having players such as tony parker, manu ginobili and others just drive past him for a layup or toss up a teardrop..

as far as hakeem goes i would probably call him the 2nd best defensive center behind bill russell.. his career average for blocks speaks for itself (3.09) with a career high of 4.6 in 89-90.. speaking of 89-90, he was putting up ben wallace type numbers just with more assists, steals, and points. hakeem was also a tad quicker compared to other centers which allowed him to roam away from the basket and defend where he also excelled at.. this guy has a 1.75 SPG average for his career in the 5 spot; not a lot of players playing the 1,2 or the 3 can even post those numbers.

oh random fact, hakeem has posted a quadruple double as well :)
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Postby Fresh8 on Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:50 pm

Both centres were great. I know that Shaq must have learnt some moves off Hakeem!

On offence I'm thinking that Dream was a way better free throw shooter than Shaq but Shaq's low post presence is much more dominating thanks to his own blessing... which is size. When Shaq was slimmer and more athletic, he could dominate. Hakeem is more fineese than anything. But Shaq has dominated longer than Hakeem did... and we'll find out this season if Shaq still has enough petrol in the tank to fuel the diesal cause Hakeem started to 'drop' around Shaq's current age.

On defence, Shaq can block shots.. can play D... but as recently is a great example he can switch off on defence. Maybe in Miami we may see him play defence again. Hakeem, I never saw him play, but I have read he could do everything on defence. Steal, block, rebound, hustle... he did everything. So I guess that Hakeem was a better player on the Defensive end!

But Andrew..u had their matchup stats in the 95 Finals.. wasn't Hakeem a lot older than Shaq at the time and more experienced... and if I think like that, Shaq wasn't at his prime yet. So if Shaq was at his prime or the same age of that Olajuwan playing a Hakeem from 95... would Shaq have scored more points over Hakeem. And instead of a 28 ppg average... could we have seen him average 35 ppg+ against Hakeem because Shaq at the age of 32 would clearly dominate an old Hakeem... if u get what i mean?

You could also say, "hell no- a 23 YO Shaq being schooled by the ten year older Hakeem... wtf?" And then it would be a matter of decidng... wat would be the more important factor. Age or experience. Being younger means more athletic/energy, experience is knowing what to do at the right time...

Or am I wrong? I dunno... I'll just listen to what everyone else says...

Hakeem won his first ring in 94 at the age of 31... He was MVP and DPOY in that season... 93-94. His season stats were 27.3 ppg on 52% FG 71 % FT and 42% 3pt... 11.9 rpg + 3.6 apg + 3.76 bpg and 1.6 spg... (He played in 80 games...)

Shaq at age 31 had toe surgery... wind the clock back one year and at the age of 30... Shaq won his third ring with the Lakers... dominated in the play-offs. In 01-02, Shaq only played 67 games that season.. not the least in any seasons but his toe was starting to play up during the season... Shaq avergaged 27.2 ppg on 60% shooting (close enough) but 55% FT... 10.7 rpg and 2 bpg... only his scoring average and rebounding is close to hakeem at their similar age. On defence and passing- Shaq is inferior to Hakeem. Maybe due to injury, lack of concentration... his added size also an excuse.

But judging on stats, Hakeem killed Shaq when they were 31 and 30... both winning rings in those seasons... but you cant say that Hakeem is better. Cause if you look at their careers Shaq's stats have been much more constant than Hakeem...

Oh... if we're judging by FINALS statistics...

Shaq: 36.3 ppg, 12.30 rpg, 3.8apg
Dream: 32.8 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 5.5 apg

when they were both 30-31... sure, Hakeem was up against a younger Shaq.. Shaq was against a shitty New Jersey front court... and this isnt an accurate look at their stats. But you could reason that Shaq would still dominate Hakeem...

I can say judging from stats... and some footage I've seen and read, Shaq has dominated scoring wise but when it comes to all-around performances the Dream is the man. One is strength, the other more athletic ability.

The better player is Hakeem on basis of skill and talent. Dominance belongs to Shaq on terms of his size and scoring prowess in the paint.
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Postby Matthew on Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:04 pm

Man, this is a great topic. It's a good question. Part of me wants to say hakeem, but i cant ignore history. Shaq in 2000 and 2001 was just so fucking dominant, the most dominant i have ever seen since mj. But is that fair? is the league weaker now than when it was in 94 and 95? I think so. The utah jazz were still a constant 55+ win team in the nba, the phoenix suns were always dangerous in the postseason with that amount of firepower, the spurs with maybe the best athlete to play the centre position were in good shape. The best of the teams during shaqs dominance were the blazers in 2000, the spurs in 01 and the kings in 02. Give me the teams from 94 and 95 over those other teams anyday, with the exception of the blazers, they could hang with teams from any era imo.

I guess theres no clear cut winner. Look at their history: Hakeem destroyed shaq in 95, and big dunkenstein who used brute power and strength. Hakeem used quickness, footwork, basketball i.q. and fundermentals to outplay shaq. I can see that happening against shaq in his prime. But on the flip side, look at when Shaq matches up with Timmy Duncan. He had sufficent footwork and great defensive timing to slow down duncan, plus his basketball skills had improved so he could not be stopped on the offensive end. It's almost a tie.

Almost.

I give this to Hakeem. Shaq never really dominated a playoff series where he faced a matchup with a legitimate future hall of fame centre. Hakeem did many times. Who could forget his perfomance against the then mvp david robinson? That to me proves how strong willed hakeem is, and as bill russell has proved, that is sometimes the best asset.
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Postby Stevan on Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:48 pm

I'd go with Hakeem for a couple of reasons. First the fact that he played in an era with many great centres and won as a couple of people above me have said. Second, that apart from being a better defender, he was more versatile offensively. Now, Shackle O'Deal is still going to get you the points, but Hakeem's versatility and offensive moves allowed him to step away from the basket and in turn be deadly in the last seconds of a game. One of the best turn around jumpers down low ever.
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Postby J@3 on Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:31 pm

Stevan wrote:Shackle O'Deal


I used to love that game
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Postby Mikki on Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:37 pm

I'd go with Hakeem.

At the peak of his career, there were a lot of great center at that time and he dominated it. Y'know the Ewings, Mournings, Mutombos, Shaqs, Admirals, and some more. Right now, Shaq is so dominant cause a few good centers are left namely Ben, Yao, and Ilgauskas (IMO).
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Postby Matt on Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:28 am

I go with Hakeem. He dominated Robinson, Mutombo, Ewing, Mourning and company in their primes (or close) whereas Shaq's prime came with few big men around

In theory, if yo could shut down Shaq's best move you would eliminate most of his offence, whereas Akeem had so many moves that shutting down his best weapon would be just a bump in the road to the basket
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Postby Rip32 on Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:34 am

Hakeem because of how good of a defensive player he was and he could do the same on the offensive side of the ball too. Another thing is Shaq says that the only center who he respects is Olajuwon.
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Postby Sauru on Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:56 am

i would have to say hakeem for reasons already stated. look who the dream had to go against and compare it to who shaq has to play. now i am not just talking the top centers like other have mentioned(robinson, ewing, so on) i am talking all centers in the nba. todays nba is in serious lack of big men. centers were just better back then.
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Postby Incubus on Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:14 am

I`d go for Hakeem. I liked his gamestyle, the way he played. Also , he`s one of the greatest in my opinion. I don`t think you can comprarise them too, cause they`re so different.
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Postby NNpF on Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:43 am

Well, I hate Shaq so I will say I like Hakeem better. Not only because I hate Shaq but Hakeem always dominated other centers when he needed to. But still, how many times have you heard, "Shaq is the most dominant center to ever play the game"?
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Postby Jackal on Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:29 am

Hakeem, all the reasons have been stated, no need to retype everything, I'm tired of typing. :D
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Postby J@3 on Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:32 am

:shock: there's a surprise
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Postby John-John Joe on Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:56 am

This is such a tough question, honestly. But like most of you here I will have to say the Dream simply because of the versatility and defensive acumen. Thing about Shaq is, I want to give it to him because of that amazing passing ability he has for his size. The freethrows hurt him though.....Yeah, Hakeem or Akeem if you want to get old school with it. :wink: Great topic Drew.
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Postby [Pistol] on Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:36 am

Akeem is my man. He was much better all-round player that Shaq ever was or will be. In one sentence: he did everything and everywhere. He even hit free throws :lol:.
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Postby Carlos Boozer on Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:03 am

KO in 3-rd round by Shaquille O'Neal!!1 :lol:
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Postby mp3 on Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:38 am

The Dream...
Hands down.
For me Hakeem was the better all round player. I remember the magic vs rockets finals well and Shaq got wasted!! even wanted to play a 1on1 with "akeem" to prove he was better!! but that never happened :lol:
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Postby Sauru on Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:05 pm

-|NN|-[pF]- wrote: how many times have you heard, "Shaq is the most dominant center to ever play the game"?



yeah and everytime someone says it, it makes me laugh. wilt averaged 50 a game one season. shaq has not. case closed.
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Postby John-John Joe on Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:31 pm

Big Nasty wrote:The Dream...
Hands down.
For me Hakeem was the better all round player. I remember the magic vs rockets finals well and Shaq got wasted!! even wanted to play a 1on1 with "akeem" to prove he was better!! but that never happened :lol:


Big in all fairness to the Diesel, you can't use that as an example of Akeem being better. Dream was in his prime while Shaq was a young dude on the rise still learning the game.
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Postby mp3 on Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:59 pm

Thats true i cant...
but if i was to compare Hakeem in his prime to Shaq in his prime i think id still back the dream, he had the option of taking his man inside or stepping back and nailing a jumper while also been able to dominate on defence.
There are many centers in the past that have been able to hold down at least two of these qualities but not all three and that why Hakeem was so amazing and also the reason in my eyes why he was a better (all around) player than Shaq.
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Postby John-John Joe on Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:53 pm

Big Nasty wrote:Thats true i cant...
but if i was to compare Hakeem in his prime to Shaq in his prime i think id still back the dream, he had the option of taking his man inside or stepping back and nailing a jumper while also been able to dominate on defence.
There are many centers in the past that have been able to hold down at least two of these qualities but not all three and that why Hakeem was so amazing and also the reason in my eyes why he was a better (all around) player than Shaq.


Same here. I wonder what would happen if we took a poll of all the NBA analysts? What would they say?
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Postby Matt on Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:21 pm

I think most ppl would go with Hakeem.

A 1-on-1 game would have been interesting. Shaq would have to rely on his size up close but Olajuwon had great hands and could strip it from him.
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Postby Andrew on Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:00 pm

Time for me to make a final assessment.

I wrote:All things considered, who do you think is the better player?


I would say Hakeem. He had the more well rounded game, his offensive game was much more refined (not that a lack of diverse moves slows Shaq down) and he was better at playing like a much smaller player while still being a classic example of an NBA centre.

I wrote:The most dominant? Is Shaq's dominance through size and might equal, superior or inferior to Hakeem's dominance through diverse talents and amazing footwork?


I know I'm the one that posed the question, but I still find it a tough choice. ;) Shaq's game certainly appears to be more dominant. His style of play makes him difficult to overlook. It's easy to associate physical superiority with dominance and Shaq certainly dominates his opponents.

But domination through sheer talent and refined skills is vastly underrated. As I noted in my first post, Hakeem made other talented centres look clumsy and unskilled. I too would rate Hakeem's defense as being superior, not only in all-around numbers but also in his approach to D.

In all fairness, they are/were both dominant centres in their own way, though Shaq's methods of dominating a game are much more obvious.

I wrote:Which would you rank above the other?


I think I'll have to pick Hakeem over Shaq. Like everyone else, part of me wants to rank Shaq above the Dream because we know how effective he can be as a one man wrecking machine. We know how dominant he can be and how dominant his team can be with the right teammates. There are numbers that seem to put him ahead of Hakeem.

And yet, it just doesn't seem right. Hakeem's best years were in the 80s and 90s, decades where powerful teams prevented a lot of great players from winning titles (or in the case of Hakeem, winning "only" a couple). His accomplishments are certainly comparable to Shaq's and I consider the Dream to be the superior player in terms of skill. I rank Hakeem above Shaq, but the margin is much closer than it was when they battled each other in the 90s.
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