Overrated and Underrated players

[matmat8]

With all tyhe players under/overrated in the league i thought it would be interesting to discuss it.
I guess it can also be players who have retired now.

[j.23]

overrated

antoine walker
jerry stackhouse
vince carter

underrated

richard hamilton
earl boykins
pau gasol

i'm sure i can think of more later..

[-BHZMAFIA-]

i can think of a bunch, but im only going to name a few

overrated:
antoine walker
mike bibby
mehmet okur

underrated:
rashard lewis
james posey
manu ginobili
corey maggette
elton brand
mike dunleavy

i wish i had more time but its just a few

[DipSetVC]

Overrated:

Brad Miller
Steve Nash
Richard Jefferson
Karl Malone (At this stage of his career)
Gary Payton (At this stage of his career)
Mike Bibby
Chris Webber
Jermaine O'Neal
Jerry Stackhouse
Antoine Walker
Yao Ming



Underrated:

Andrei Kirilenko
Carlos Boozer
Lamar Odom
Michael Redd
James Posey
Mehmet Okur (He will tear it up next year with the Jazz when he gets to start)
Matt Harpring
Donyell Marshall
Samuel Dalembert
Kenny Thomas
Corey Maggette
Ron Artest

[Luca]

Overrated in the last days:

Shaq: Odom, Butler and Grant for him and his 30 M contract?

[-BHZMAFIA-]

I would think RJ was an underrated player

but i have to agree with you no joneal because him and brand put up the same numbers ,but brand numbers are better. brand is in the west and is only 6'9. i think if you put brand in the same position joneal is in with a good team then i bet brand would receive the same recognition.

[FanOfAll]

i can think of a bunch, but im only going to name a few

overrated:
antoine walker
mike bibby
mehmet okur

underrated:
rashard lewis
james posey
manu ginobili
corey maggette
elton brand
mike dunleavy

i wish i had more time but its just a few

Funny because my list is different is pretty flip flopped. I'm going to add explanations to my list as well. Well, only one player, I almost put 'Shard on overrated.

Overrated (note: I don't consider a lot of these players to be seriously overrated, just names that have popped into my head):
Vince Carter: Maybe much less so these days, but he lacks intensity and heart on the court that the greats have. Defense is improving, but still could use help. No longer the same slasher or aggressive dunker he used to be, maybe because of injury concerns.
Jerry Stackhouse: Why anybody would want him on your team is beyond me. He's shown he can't take a team deep into the playoffs, if at all. Ballhog, cancer in the lockerroom.
Drew Gooden: Don't me wrong, this kid has talent. I'm a fan of him, but he's gotta work on the effort and defense he shows on the court. Also has a tendency to take bad shots when he should be passing the ball.
Antawn Jamison: See a theme? The no defense theme? Well, that's only part of the reason Jamison's on this list. He's not an impact player (#1 or 2 option) on a winning team. He's a 6th man, and that's a great role for him. But I've watched him enough to say that he's terrible ball handler, passer, outside shooter, has terrible court vision, and worst of all, no idea about team (rotation especially) defense.
Jason Terry: No idea how to be a point guard in this league. Bad decision maker, doesn't take care of the ball, mediocre passer, mostly a scorer. Defense is half-way decent. Biggest problem, how many playoff games has he played in?
Glenn Robinson: Not the same player. Always been overrated, lousy defense, ballhog, cancer. You gotta look past that 16 and 5 which isn't bad.
Steve Francis: Selfish player, has to be the #1 option. Takes some bad shots, defense could be a lot better (but has improved thanks to JVG), struggled playing in a team offense with him being the #2 option.
Jalen Rose and Jamal Crawford: Idol and student. Bad shots, poor defense, lack of effort, decent playmaking ability, but only for themselves. JC isn't that bad, but Rose has a rep of being a cancer. Please, no more point for either one.
Shareef Abdur-Rahim: Needs to play better defense and the fact that he has never been the playoffs is a big black hole.
Tyronne Lue: Worst starting point guard and starting defender in the league last year. Period.
Carlos Boozer: Biggest overrated name on this list. First of all, yes, poor man to man defender. That's the first weakness you should notice. The second is a nonexistant post game. No offense, but I don't think he's going to thrive nearly as much in Utah because there's no LBJ creating an easy 12 footer for him. He shouldn't be on that USA Team. He complained that Silas didn't create plays for him, you know what, I wouldn't create plays for him. I'd put him on the elbow or shoulder, 12-18 feet away from the basket, ready for him to take the jumpshot or crash the offensive board. Grossly overrated.

Underrated:
Mike Bibby: I don't feel he gets enough recognition. He's still more clutch than any King and that offense really restricts his numbers. They aren't as pretty as Nash's or Marbury's, and I honestly feel that's due to the system. Funny how he used to average 8-9 assists on the Grizzlies, then gets traded to the Kings and the numbers are down to around 5-6.
Richard Jefferson: Maybe my #1 underrated player. People just don't realize how much he's improved his game the last 2 years. The improvement has been phenomenal. Let me say this, if there's one player on the Nets team that relies on JKidd the least, it's RJ. Kittles is their main fast break guy, not KMart, not RJ. During a stretch of 6 games in late March when both JKidd and KMart were injured, RJ scored of 26 ppg. He's also missed hardly any games the last 3 season. He now has one of the deadliest mid-ranged jump shots in the game. There's a reason the Nets didn't match KMart, and that's that they're ready to give RJ a big contract next year.
Kenyon Martin: Another ex-Net. Same thing as RJ, last year he didn't benefit much from the fast break. Both he and RJ get this bad rap that they're not very good offensive players that's not true. Their first few years were a lot of easy layups/dunks in both the half court and transition, but not anymore. Martin worked on his jump shot and it's more effective than ever from 16 feet. He has a dangerous baby hook that he goes to and unlike players like Jamison and Curry, he's aggressive and not afraid to slam it home. Finally, what is so often overlooked is the heart and intensity he brings to the team on the court and off the court. You can't match that.
James Posey: His jump shot took a quantum leap. Best 3 point shooter on the Grizz, best % and if he didn't make the most, I'm sure he made the 2nd most. What's even funnier is that he made his jump shots at a ridiculous 49%. And jump shots are 60% of his total shots. In comparison, jumpers are 66% of Kobe's shots and he only makes them at a 40% clip. I can't forget about Posey's defense or hustle out there. It's priceless, similar to KMart's heart. Oh yeah, what about those 1.7 steals per game? He just doesn't get enough credit.
Kwame Brown: He gets a terrible rap for his lack of success his first few years, but he's on the verge. His man up defense is on par with among the best post defenders in this leage and that's no joke. His passing, despite his numbers, is severly underrated, and his points total is lower because his guards just don't like him. For a good reason though, and that's his terrible hands. But regardless, he's a superb defender.
Shawn Marion: Great defender, freak of a rebounder and athlete (he still led the Suns in rebounds even though they had Amare), past years have shown that he can hit the 3. He's a hustler out there and tough as nails. He's gotta work on taking it all the way and to the line, instead of stopping for the jumper though.
Darius Miles: Ok, he was a bust his first few years, but he really turned it around in Portland. Not worth anywhere near the $$ he's asking for, but a very good role player. He gets in the passing lanes, plays great team basketball on both ends, improved his shot and handles (the latter greatly) and still the same dunker.
AK-47: The stats say it all, playing out of position, averaging 16-17 ppg, 8 rpg, almost 3 blocks, almost 2 steals.
Donyell Marshall: Wow, he had a sensational year last year. Cleaned the boards, few to average at least a double double, improved shot blocker, really found that 3 point stroke. Hard worker, maybe the Raptors' best player many nights.

[GloveGuy]

Considered so overrated that in my mind they're underrated:

Sebastian Telfair: He's not going to be bad, guys. There's a large percent of people that have labeled him future-bust, which I'm saying he won't be. He could be something special.

Antoine Walker: Admit it guys, this man's got skills. He can shoot the three pointer, run the point, and post up on the East's best big men(Shaq not included). If he could just recognize his skills and learn when to use them and when not to, then he'll be extremely productive. He just needs to find a role on a team and recognize when it's his time to take charge.

Karl Malone and Gary Payton: I find it ridiculous how everyone's all of a sudden calling them worthless. Recognize that Malone was hurt for most of the regular season and Payton was left without a role in the Lakers' triangle-dominant playoffs. I mean, c'mon, they were putting up double-doubles only a little more than a year ago. They're two of the most consistent and durable players of all time. The dropoff surely couldn't have been that big.

[FanOfAll]

Considered so overrated that in my mind they're underrated:

Sebastian Telfair: He's not going to be bad, guys. There's a large percent of people that have labeled him future-bust, which I'm saying he won't be. He could be something special.

Thank you, he will be something special. Has been truly the best player for the Blazers in RMR and it's not dominating smaller or lesser skilled players. It's true court sense, vision, timing, etc.

Antoine Walker: Admit it guys, this man's got skills. He can shoot the three pointer, run the point, and post up on the East's best big men(Shaq not included). If he could just recognize his skills and learn when to use them and when not to, then he'll be extremely productive. He just needs to find a role on a team and recognize when it's his time to take charge.

Thank you again .

[Fresh8]

Well...I got something to say about Kwame...

With great power comes great responsbility...

He was picked first- everyone will believe he should do well...thats why he gets a beating after EVERY SINGLE CRAP GAME! but he is praised when he does well!

[fgrep15]

Underrated:

Andrei Kirilenko
Carlos Boozer
Lamar Odom
Michael Redd
James Posey
Mehmet Okur (He will tear it up next year with the Jazz when he gets to start)
Matt Harpring
Donyell Marshall
Samuel Dalembert
Kenny Thomas
Corey Maggette
Ron Artest

I thought he was an All-Star wannabe
Mehmet Okur will tear it up in Utah, by scoring 20 points and allowing 25 points

[j.23]

Well...I got something to say about Kwame...

With great power comes great responsbility...

but yeah i was just gonna ask why a lot of you think mike bibby is overrated.. i think he's one of the most underrated players in the league. i pretty much agree w/ fanofall's list and he made some good points regarding RJ.. he's gonna be an awesome player

but yeah why is bibby an overrated player? i've seen him play when he was around here in vancouver and he can create his own shit or shoot them off screens.. and everyone knows that he's pretty clutch.. i seriously thought he should've made the all-star team this year (along with peja and brad) but he got snubbed once again.. maybe next year

[[Q]]

Considered so overrated that in my mind they're underrated:

Karl Malone and Gary Payton: I find it ridiculous how everyone's all of a sudden calling them worthless. Recognize that Malone was hurt for most of the regular season and Payton was left without a role in the Lakers' triangle-dominant playoffs. I mean, c'mon, they were putting up double-doubles only a little more than a year ago. They're two of the most consistent and durable players of all time. The dropoff surely couldn't have been that big.

THANK YOU!!! you took the words right out of my mouth...
GP would dominate if there was no triangle (like this year) and if he was the only superstar on the team (as with most players... but last year he was the last of 4 on the totem pole).

Overrated:
Vince, Ron Artest (he's just a good defender cuz he's strong), Francis (selfish ballhog... he has a 7' 5" center for cryin out loud!), Tyronn Lue, Juwan Howard (good decent player, just overpaid), I would say Kobe but that would create a riot... he gets lucky, but he just takes so many bad shots at the end of games so he can walk off pumping his fist like Jordan, Ray Allen is only a 3point shooter (or maybe I'm still bitter Seattle traded GP for him).
Under:
AK47, Marion, Posey(look what he did in Memphis!), Ginobili, Booze, Lamar Odom, Kurt Thomas sticking in there at C, and a lot of the 2nd round picks that have big contracts now...
Kwame is/was overated becuase he WAS the #1 pick in a draft with (correct me if I'm wrong) Pau Gasol, Shane Battier, Rich Jefferson, Zach Randolph, Sam Dalembert, Tinsley, & Tony Parker... and that's only the first round. Round 2: Hassell, Gilbert Arenas, Trepagnier, Mehmet Okur, and Earl Watson... all of these players have performed better than Kwame. I think you guys sympathize, though cuz he has gotten a lot of crap...

[fgrep15]

Overatted

Jerry Stackhouse - Not a franchise player, and is a good 2nd or 3rd option, but isn't a player I'd want on my team, no defense, can't rebound, causes problems in the locker room, and is very selfish.

Jalen Rose - Horrible defense, and though he has a variey of skills is paid too much and can't be a franchise player.


Rasheed Wallace - Has underachieved in comparison to his talent all these years, and suddenly some people think he's a top 5 PF because he was on a very deep and high chemistry Championship team?


Rip Hamilton - Just his defense, people seem to think because he was on the Pistons who are a good defensive team he's a good defender too, he's not a good defender, maybe a little below average.


I would say Antoine Walker, but he get's called overatted so much that I guess he's not anymore. he's got skills, but he uses them badly, and is stupid and makes stupid decisions on the court.



Tony Parker - What's with everyone thinking this guy is some superstar, so many without thinking will name him a top 5 PG, when he's not better than Bibby, Nash, Andre Miller, Billips, Francis, and is not any better than Wade and Arenas because they're better all-round players, he just get's to be with Duncan


Vince Carter - The ignorant fans that think he's the best player in the league or worth way too much more than he actually is. Also when people think he's so much better than someone like Redd or Maggette, he's better, but not by the amount some think.
I'm a fan but let's be serious here.








Underatted


Michael Redd - NBA All-Star, makes All NBA third team, his team won 41 games, and he's a good shooter, scorer, slasher, and a pretty good defender, and people still don't give him his dues, you'll hear people saying Rip Hamilton is better than him.



Stephen Jackson - Everyone talks about how his numbers were just over hyped from playing in ATL, but how?
This Year, 36.8 minutes a game
18.1 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 3.1 APG, 1.78 SPG, 2.79 TPG, 42.5% FG, 34.0% 3PT

Last Year in SA Per 36.8 mins
15.4 PPG, 4.7 RPG, 3.0 APG, 2.04 SPG, 2.87 TPG, 43.5% FG, 32.0% 3PT

So how did it over hype his stats? He just got more shots in ATL, 2.4 more shots a game to be exact, so how did his numbers get overhyped, and he's a very good defender, and can hit big shots if called upon.




Elton Brand
How much better is Jermaine O'neal than him? JO has a better team, and his team doesn't suffer so many injuries, including himself, but Brand is just as good offensively and defensively as JO, and he's a better passer, yet people put Jo over him without ever thinking it through.
Brand on the Pacers if healthy, and they do the exact same thing, JO on the Clippers, and they don't win any more than they did.



Corey Maggette
He's a good player, and knows how to get to the line, but he also doesn't get respect because of personal and team injuries, and team success, but a guy like Carmelo is no better than Maggette at the moment, and Maggette is just a good player.



Shawn Marion
How is he not the best SF in the league? (Considering the SF list doesn't include Pierce and Vince - SG's) He's a great defender, good scorer, the best reboudner at SF right now, better than many PF and C's, and he can shoot and do many things, his only flaw is his half court offense, and his playmaking.


Andrei Kirilenko
After Marion, how is he not the next best SF? People give Peja so much props, but compared to these two guys (Marion and Andrei), and if he was in their situations, people would think differently. Kirilenko is a great defender, can shoot, rebound, pass, score, handle the ball, and like Marion can do everything, and is a better passer and halfcourt player, but not as good in the open court, and not as good a rebounder.




Amare Stoudemire
The kat put up 20 and 9, and though people say he's up and coming, he's already there now. The workout stuff they showed on him, he can hit the 13-15' jumper consistently and is trying to extend his range out to 18', he's a guy you can build a defensive force around, and wheter he did it all by dunking, he still put up 20 PPG on the boards every night.



Richard Jefferson
Just because you hate him DipsetVC doesn't mean he's overatted, who overattes him, The Media? Definately not, people? Definately not, so who, the coaches who pick All-Stars?

People just don't realize how much he's improved his game the last 2 years. The improvement has been phenomenal. Let me say this, if there's one player on the Nets team that relies on JKidd the least, it's RJ. Kittles is their main fast break guy, not KMart, not RJ. During a stretch of 6 games in late March when both JKidd and KMart were injured, RJ scored of 26 ppg. He's also missed hardly any games the last 3 season. He now has one of the deadliest mid-ranged jump shots in the game. There's a reason the Nets didn't match KMart, and that's that they're ready to give RJ a big contract next year.

Agree, I wouldn't call his mid-range J the deadliest, but it's very good now, and he can hit the three well too, 34% this season.
One thing I may have to disagree with is the assisted FG's, yes he wasn't the biggest beneficiary from Kidd, but Kittles had 85% of his made FG's assited, Jefferson 70%, and KMart 67%. Kidd had 57%.
Now let's compare to some other players, Vince Carter 46%, Paul Pierce 51%, Tracy McGrady 50% (and people say Carter had more help than all these guys ) Shawn Marion 60%, Joe Johnson 43%, Dwyane Wade 36% (now this is a man that knows how to create his own shot), Kobe 47% (surprising?), Lebron 47%.
Anyways, all those guys don't get assisted in their scoring as much as RJ does, and maybe thsoe are too high comparisons (except JJ), but he even gets assisted more than Carlos Boozer 69%, only one percent more.




James Posey - This kat is a defensive stopper, can shoot, score, and has pretty good all round abilities that he showed in Denver, he's like Stephen Jackson in their production and what they can do.
Just not as wild, turnover prone, and he's looking like a better shooter.




Kwame Brown - Kwame this, Kwame that, Kwame beat you down with a baseball bat, the boy has some skills. Yea he hasn't done much yet, but last year he showed great flashes, and if you read articles about him, he's a changed man.
Let me do a comparison, Chris Bosh: Kwame averaged better scoring, assists and rebounding numbers than Bosh per minutes this year, is bigger which made him a better man to man defender, though he's not as good a shot blocker, and he's just as quick and athletic (yes he is, watch him play). Now the only thing is that he's 2 years older, same age as Wade and Arenas, and Bosh has a better jumpshot, but what's stopping him?
He's also capable of playing center, and actually might be, and has one of the quickest first steps of all big men in the league, and his blocking deficiencies are also due to him being scared of picking up fouls.
Also he's a guy you can run a high post offense through because he's a great passer, and has good awareness and vision on offense, he needs to improve his off ball defense, and his jumpshot is coming.

http://www.thebrunswicknews.com/front/2 ... 328946.php - read for those who still think Kwame doesn't work




Donyell Marshall - Marshall had a great year last year and averaged a double double on the Raptors, his defense isn't that great, but he became a three point shooter, and he was very good and consistent. The only problem is he can't create his own shot well, which is something I already knew, and also shown by his 77% assists FG's, but he was very good.




Mike Bibby - Why does everyone so easily say Nash is better than him, because Nash averages more assists? Bibby is a better defender, right there in terms of shooting, just as good a passer, and just as good or maybe a better scorer. This guy is a top 5 PG, after Kidd, Baron, and Marbury, Bibby is next in line, he has all Nash has with better defense, Cassell is older and his defense is a little lesser, he's a better PG than Billups, and a better passer and shooter, and also clutch, and Tony Parker is not a top 5 PG, too many people say that garbage. Also he's better than Francis because Francis isn't a PG, just a SG with great coutvision and handles, and a very good rebounder.




Kirk Hinrich - Simple, he's a good player, much much better defender than people would think, fairly athletic, good shooter, and a good passer, he's got game.




Kenny Thomas - 6'8, PF/SF, averaged a double double (one of the few players), and is very skilled, but who knows, no one says anything about him.


Vince Carter - Underatted too, why? Those who seem to just follow others and have no clue why he's underatted just say because he wins the All-Star voting
I showed some of the players assisted FG's, and apart from Wade and Joe Johnson (impressive FG% for not getting assisted by these 2 also), Carter was assisted very little, only one % less than Kobe and Lebron, but he was basically creating everything for himself.
Also those that talk about his defense and really haven't watched him, just because the ESPN guy or news reported said so. Carter is a good off ball and team defender, and a lazy one on one defender, but good when he puts effort into it, but his defense overall isn't that bad, but not good.
Also people that don't even think he's a top 20 player, when he's one of the few namely franchise players in the league.





That is all for now, if I think of more I'll add to it.

[FanOfAll]

Richard Jefferson
Just because you hate him DipsetVC doesn't mean he's overatted, who overattes him, The Media? Definately not, people? Definately not, so who, the coaches who pick All-Stars?

People just don't realize how much he's improved his game the last 2 years. The improvement has been phenomenal. Let me say this, if there's one player on the Nets team that relies on JKidd the least, it's RJ. Kittles is their main fast break guy, not KMart, not RJ. During a stretch of 6 games in late March when both JKidd and KMart were injured, RJ scored of 26 ppg. He's also missed hardly any games the last 3 season. He now has one of the deadliest mid-ranged jump shots in the game. There's a reason the Nets didn't match KMart, and that's that they're ready to give RJ a big contract next year.

Agree, I wouldn't call his mid-range J the deadliest, but it's very good now, and he can hit the three well too, 34% this season.
One thing I may have to disagree with is the assisted FG's, yes he wasn't the biggest beneficiary from Kidd, but Kittles had 85% of his made FG's assited, Jefferson 70%, and KMart 67%. Kidd had 57%.
Now let's compare to some other players, Vince Carter 46%, Paul Pierce 51%, Tracy McGrady 50% (and people say Carter had more help than all these guys ) Shawn Marion 60%, Joe Johnson 43%, Dwyane Wade 36% (now this is a man that knows how to create his own shot), Kobe 47% (surprising?), Lebron 47%.
Anyways, all those guys don't get assisted in their scoring as much as RJ does, and maybe thsoe are too high comparisons (except JJ), but he even gets assisted more than Carlos Boozer 69%, only one percent more.

Interesting stats, but you have to take into account the type of offense they run (ie, Princeton), which creates a lot of assisted baskets. When you have VC running ISO's thanks to KO's stupidity and PP having no one else being able to create shots, they're naturally going to have a lower stat there. I don't disagree with anything you posted though, I just think the stat, needs to be used catiously.

Good ones with SJax and Redd, definitely underrated.

[DipSetVC]

Just because you hate him DipsetVC doesn't mean he's overatted, who overattes him

Too bad everyone who hates Carter in this thread thinks he's overrated.

[fgrep15]

Just because you hate him DipsetVC doesn't mean he's overatted, who overattes him

Too bad everyone who hates Carter in this thread thinks he's overrated.

I thought you were better than that

[Carmo]

I sorta find it funny that there are so many Kobe bashers yet no one puts him in the overrated section!

Kobe = underrated

[fgrep15]

I sorta find it funny that there are so many Kobe bashers yet no one puts him in the overrated section!

Kobe = underrated

.....that is all

[Jackal]

If the Franchise is over-rated by people, Kobe Bryant is over-rated to me.

All those monkey shots, what for? He's got a 50 % FG player with him. (Had)

I liked the comment someone made, he takes all those weird shots just to pump his fist like Jordan at the end of games, that's a riot.

I won't post on this again, I think Bryant is overhyped, but saying so results in bashingess from all sides. It's unbelievable to hear the constants of "He's going to be better than Michael Jordan."comments.

He'll never be better than Mike, not to me atleast...to be a good player/entertainer (which Mike totally was) you have to have charisma, you have to actually be liked by someone other than yourself.

Bryant? He can't even get along with his team-mates, and I'm not only referring to O'Neal, there have been those little E documentaries on his whole rape case where former highschool players & even players of LA have said he's all to himself etc etc.

Anywho, over-rated: If Franchise is, so is Bryant.

[Nel]

I don't think vince carter is overrated. He didn't play enough to prove hes not overrated. Its the injuries that made him overrated.

[air gordon]

nice lists so far. i'll try not to get repetitive...

OVERRATED
elton brand: has a nba max contract yet is not a difference maker. a shoe in to miss games. 20/10 and hardwork are nice but is no more then a complimentary player on a contending team.

manu ginobili: i like this guy's guts and skills but he's belongs on this list. he's very erratic and turnover prone. defensively, he's doug christie like- duncan&rasho in the middle allows him to constantly gamble for steals

brent barry: seems like everyone here loves the barry signing with the spurs. but what exactly does bring barry bring to the table that hedo didn't? both are versatile players that could hit the 3. hedo has played on championship contending teams his entire career while barry has played on losing teams.

kirk hinrich: maybe not here but around the bulls camp. gets a lot of good pub from opposing coaches for his good attitude and effort, but his FG% was piss poor, untimely TO's & missed FT's in crunchtime, and even if he did get slighted for being a rook, his defense remains suspect- could harass iverson one day, then get lit up by barbosa the next.

trenton hassel: all of sudden is mentioned with the league's best defenders once he starts playing with a real NBA team. should sign 9/10 of that offer sheet he gets from portland over to KG.

UNDERRATED:
keith van horn: not a clutch performer but a valuable contributor. gives just as much production as rasheed wallace did in his portland days.

jamaal magloire: did in fact deserve to make the all star team, heck almost won the mvp in that game. reminds me of a throwback type of player: very physical play in the paint and very willing to give hard fouls. arguably is the east's best big man behind shaq and JO

(again) mike bibby: maybe doesn't deserve his big contract but is sac's money player

FINE WHERE THEY ARE:
redd: when you make the all star team and then the all nba 3rd team, i think you're getting your due.

kirilenko: got snubbed for the all star team but he and sloan received a lot of recognition for how the jazz team did. i don't think a lot of people don't think he's an up and coming star

marion: broke out last year. still a few moves on offense away from becoming a superstar

[VCFAN]

The biggest in my opinion underated player in the game today is Joe Johnson. You never hear of him, he is so young and his stats are amazing. He is a player I would want on my team.

[GloveGuy]

kirilenko: got snubbed for the all star team

No he didn't.

[fgrep15]

kirilenko: got snubbed for the all star team

No he didn't.

That's what I was going to say, unless I was seeing another Russian guy with spiky hair and the name Kirilenko??

OVERRATED
elton brand: has a nba max contract yet is not a difference maker. a shoe in to miss games. 20/10 and hardwork are nice but is no more then a complimentary player on a contending team.

The problem is that it's not just him that misses games, every important player on his team misses games.
His first 2 years the Bulls were in a mess, no need to even talk about that.

01-02 his team went 39-43

02-03, Odom, Kandi, Q-Rich, Maggette, Wilcox, Ely, Jaric, and Brand were injured, check the played games for all thsoe players.

03-04, Maggette (only 9 this time), Jaric, Wilcox, Q-Rich, Brand, Simmons, House, Dooling, Drobnjak, and Ely were all injured, basically everyone in the teams rotation