Should the Rockets build a team around Yao or Francis?

[- Ace -]

I just read an article stating that the Rockets may be better off trading Mobley and Francis away for players more compatible with Yao and Van Gundy's coaching. It seems like Mobley and Francis sometimes ignore Yao and are intent are scoring 20 ppg even if that means jacking up 20 shots a game. Yao is capable of scoring 20 pts and grabbing 10 boards any given night but he seems to be content to letting Francis and Mobley shoot more than they should. Maybe Yao needs to be the lone star on the team alone so he will become more aggressive. Then again Francis is such a great all-around talent who is just having a down year while Mobley can be an electrifying offensive player. If the three players ever develop great chemistry it would be a great inside-outside combo.

Your thoughts?

[Andrew]

Good topic.

It's a tough call. The logical choice would seem to be Yao. It's rare to find a player his size who can do all the things that he can. He has the tools to become a great centre in the NBA. But it's well documented that he's selfless to a flaw. The phrase "gentle giant" is starting to be used more frequently. Obviously, no one wants another arrogant, selfish star who hurts his team more than helping it win. But Yao is indeed a potential 20-10 player (with 2-3 blocks and a couple of assists thrown in for good measure) if he develops the right mentality...and gets the opportunity.

Despite reasonable numbers in the assist column, Francis still isn't a pass-first point guard, and Cuttino Mobley is definitely not a distributor either. Trading them away would definitely allow Yao to be the focus of the team's offense, and the foundation that the team would be built upon. But what if Yao can't be a guy who scores 20+ ppg? If nothing else, Francis and Mobley aren't shy about putting points on the board.

I believe that every team needs a player who is willing to put up shots no matter whether he starts out by hitting his first five attempts or missing his first five attempts. One of the reasons the Timberwolves crumbled in the first round last year was the lack of such a player. Sure, let's give the Lakers credit where credit is due, but the Wolves' second best scorer, Wally Szczerbiak, attempted fewer than 10 shots in half of the games in the 6 game first round series.

Now consider the Timberwolves this season. One of the top teams in the East, with three players willing to take a lot of shots. There are times when selfishness (or what seems like selfishness) is an asset, not a flaw. Teams need that guy who isn't afraid to put up shots when the team needs them most.

This is not to be confused with players who simply jack up a lot of shots to score a lot of points so that they'll look good as an individual. I'm referring to players who can score pretty much whenever they're called upon. You know the type, so I won't bother naming names. So the question is, are Francis and Mobley (particularly Francis) those kinds of players? If not, can they be?

If all three can co-exist, then the Rockets are a force to be reckoned with. If everyone is fine with Yao being the main man while Francis swings back and forth between distributor and scorer (similar to Stephon Marbury) and Mobley continues to score whenever he gets a chance, then it's simply a matter of finding the role players to play alongside them.

But it seems like that won't work. So, what do to?

The Rockets have already tried Francis and Mobley for a few years pre-Yao, without so much as a playoff appearance. They've become better over time, but it still hasn't worked out very well. Getting rid of Yao and keeping a guard-orientated offense with Francis as the centrepiece probably isn't going to work much better than it did before. But going with Yao depends on his willingness to take a lot of shots and put the team on his back.

It's very difficult to make a choice between the two.

So, I think the Rockets should give the Yao-Francis tandem another go. However, Mobley might have to be shown the door. If Yao needs more shots, they have to come from somewhere. Mobley should not be unattractive to other teams, and probably won't be happy in Houston if he's not getting as many chances to score. The Rockets will be able to continue to mold Yao into a dominant force, while having the security of a proven scorer in Stevie Franchise.

If that doesn't work...figure out which one of them would work out best as the lone star, and trade the other one for a sidekick.

[Fresh8]

I've been sayin all along...before the rockets released Eddie Griffen- they should have trade Griffen/Mobley together for a decent player who will be able to complement Yao and Steve...and Steve needs to get used to his Pass first role....

I think it's pretty clear that Van Gundy wants Yao to be 'The Man'... Cat and Francis probably understand but cant stop thinking 'Shoot first...pass later!"

[1CenT]

I think they need to keep Francis with Yao
Yao is dominating when he is up to it..
20/10 guy for sure.. but sometimes he barely put up shots and don't grab many boards, he passes up many opportunity and i don't see him commanding the ball sometimes to get a good stop posession..
I wouldn't be so sure to put Yao with a bunch of good role players... i think they need a Francis type.. even tho i dislike him.. i prefer Marbury over him much better..

I don't see Yao as the lone star on any team .. I just don't see him taking 20 shots a game on a daily basis..

[fgrep15]

What they need is a defensive 2 guard that can score about 10 a game and is content with that. They also need to run through Yao, which would open up the floor for Francis therefore giving him similar or maybe even better scoring numbers because he would be able to get higher percentage shots, and relatively should shoot a higher percentage.

Francis can be a very good passer if he wants too but he still needs to want to. A Yao - Francis pick and roll could rack in the assists for him if they can run it succesfully. I like Maurice Taylor as the sixth man I think its good for them. Cato at the 4 isn't bad, but they need a 4 that is like him in the rebounding and blocking, but can score more. They also need a 3 since Jimmy can't really be part of long term plans, Nachbar could become something, if not then I dunno what kinda player they need.


Right now Yao is getting 11.2 shots per game. To be a 20 ppg guy he needs about 15 shots per game. Actually if you calculate, with 15 shots a game and him getting to the line the same amount of times and shooting 53.1% and 77.1% still, he would average 20.1 ppg.

Also its not like the Rockets are scoring a lot right now anyways so in reality Francis, Mobley and Yao could work, because Maggette, Richardson and Brand works, but thats also because Maggette and Brand shoot high percentages and get to the line a lot.

[Andrew]

I like Maurice Taylor as the sixth man I think its good for them. Cato at the 4 isn't bad, but they need a 4 that is like him in the rebounding and blocking, but can score more.

Though Taylor's proven to be a solid sixth man so far this season (11.9 ppg and 5.9 rpg in 28.2 mpg), perhaps he'd be better of starting in front of Cato. If not, the Rockets can certainly make good use for him off the bench.

[bballer22]

i think the most important thing in a team is to build up team chemistry and the only way of doing it is to keep the team together and at times add a bit of help but nothing major.
those team who get alot of talent and with straight away are luky such as T-wolf and LAL, but look at Dalas, sure they win games but not with a team chem, mostly on sher talent. Its only Yao's second season and too many GMs seem to think this is a computer game and just bring in either a bunch of socrers or pass first minded players, but u also have to keep in mind that although a player may be what u want him to be on paper he is very difrent on the court. And so far there is nothing wrong with Rockets current line up, they will get it together u just have to give them time to stay together.

[Yessie]

this is too easy.. Mobley and francis where there first so if YAO wants his shots i say Ship both of them out of town and make yao the center point of your team. done deal. trade francis to the lakers..!!!!

[renegade]

Not another bloody laker fan Anyhow the way i see it is that its a lose lose situation. You can send off Francis and that is a big loss for the rockets because francis has the ability and experience to do well. Or you can send off Yao which shortens the rockets and is basically doing what Orlando did to shaq lose a great talent. I'd say keep all three players but what they should have done was trade Griffen with anotehr player for 1 solid player preferablty a 2 guard who is content on passing the ball and only putting up bout 10+- points a game.

[Matthew]

Cuttino only gets like 14 shots per game and he plays a fair few minutes, so i cant see how he is a ballhog. I think Yao and Francis will be a great duo- somewhat of like Stephon and kg were sposed to be in terms of their roles. Jim Jackson was a perfect additon for this team.. i dont see anything really bad with the rockets. Just keep them together for 2 or 3 years and let them develop together

[hmm]

.

[Wall St. Peon]

Cuttino only gets like 14 shots per game

Only? Seeing as Yao is either the second or first option, shouldn't he average more shots in more minutes than the third scoring option, Cuttino Mobley?

If anyone needs to go, it's Mobley for a Bowen-type player. Someone who can hit open threes and is a good defender...then do what someone else said with pick and rolls. I think if Yao touches the ball enough (give him 20-25 touches...that should work for 15 shots), he'll take the shots.

[Matthew]

well, mobley has been critised for "not doing enough" on the offensive end, and now he gets critised for doing too little... not by you i know, but by others in other threads. Jim Jackson is a good bowen type player imo... with a little less defense and alot more offensive skills. I think this team is fine.. but i still think that yao should be the playmaker.. get the ball to him and let him run the team sets, similar to sacramento's style..

[Amphatoast]

If Francis and Yao can't exist, then shipping off Francis would be the rockets best option. In a few years from now, when Shaq is old and about to retire, Yao will become a dominate Center and dominate the middle. Big men are hard to come by, but guards can be found out there that are about as good as Francis ( like Marbury, Iverson, Kidd)
Build around the big guy, history shows it that big men win championship ( jordan is an exception).
Lakers, Spurs, and Rockets ( Non-Jordan champion teams in the past 10 years) all had big men (Shaq, Robinson+Duncan, Hakeem) so it seems logical to keep Yao as the man.

[air gordon]

taylor is best suited coming off the bench, destroying opposing team's backup pf's. put him in the starting lineup and you have another player taking shots away from yao and another liability on defense

i would keep both francis and yao, get rid of mobley, and shift francis to sg.

yao's maturation into a beast i could be patient with, but not francis' transformation into a pass first pg. i don't think francis can do it and i don't think houston should waste seasons trying.

the west is big man heavy and light on stud sg's, houston can get away with francis at sg

[Andrew]

On a related note: Francis, coach say relationship fine as differing accounts linger

I'm guessing if the Rockets make a choice, it will be Yao. But Limp's idea is worth a shot. Francis didn't want to play for the Grizzlies as he would have been playing at shooting guard while Mike Bibby played the point, but he's probably better off in an Allen Iverson-type role.

[- Ace -]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylc=X ... &type=lgns

Follow up article on Francis vs Van Gundy.

[Little_Big_Man]

Of course Yao is the centerpiece. If they could have Francis and Yao be a Kobe/Shaq type tandem they would be really good instead of Francis/Mobley/Yao. Being in the West they NEED Yao for his height and because he is the only real challenge for Shaq as far as making Shaq play defense and guarding him with his length. I think more than anything they need a pass-first point guard along with Francis like Snow and Iverson. You need Kato starting because of his size, rebounding and blocks. Taylor is that offensive spark to go along with the second unit to keep the team flowing when the starters are on the bench.

[reapershole]

Yao Ming can be coached and that makes him the man to build around. Van Gundy would never draw up a play where a point looks for a three and only a three with 15 seconds left in the game when the team is down by three (and the opposing team is the worst free throw shooting team in the league). that situation did occur and francis had several open passes and he just held the rock until the end of the 15 seconds and hoisted a fade-away three with a man over 6 inches taller than him in his face. it was absolutely rediculous and also a profound personification of why the rockets will always flounder with francis at point. he looks for the shot first.

the rockets should run and gun, they should push it when they can... but when they can't all plays should run through Yao. Yao goes through the drawn plays, Yao listens to the coach, and Yao has the potential to be the dominent center in the league. Francis should be moved out of houston now. Bye bye stevie (usedtobe) franchise. see ya buddy. no gold watch but van gundy will wave good bye to you with a big old smile on his face. many, many teams would give a lot to have steve, so let them have him. get houston a most coachable point who will run the point as it should be and not like it's a second 2-guard spot.

of course houston should get something for their allstar guard, i make no quams about that one. they ought to get a real good point for the kid and, if packaged right, a much better small forward. above all else, like phili had to choose between AI and what's his name so long ago, it's time for houston to choose Yao over the new, improved, soon-to-be what's his name...

and i will be more than happy to no longer be able to recall the name steve francis. hell, send him to washington and have his learn from the master of not-following-suit. i'm sure what's his name could give him a lot of pointers on how to fail utterly.

and if you don't know who what's his name is then you don't pay attention to nba history or player movements over the years and that's your loss. i'm not about to explain it to you.

[Jeffx]

I'd build around Yao, and team him with a Jason Kidd-type PG. I don't think Yao will reach his potential with Francis at the point. Reapershole's first paragraph said it all.

[Micchy_boy]

it's a dilemma. its like kobe and shaq. yao and shaq have both the size and the best centers (maybe) but they have teammate more talented and athletic in kobe and francis. they just cant let go either one of them. shaq make the game easy for kobe and also without kobe nobody will set-up that lazy fat-ass shaq. so i think let yao and francis paly with each other. maybe move francis to SG and trade Cat for a pass first mentality point guard.

[Matthew]

shaq make the game easy for kobe and also without kobe nobody will set-up that lazy fat-ass shaq

Funny you say that, becuase Malone and payton set up and played off shaq alot better than kobe ever has...

[1CenT]

anybody watched the game tonite?
that already answered the question.. Get Yao the shots.. all of them were good shots.. even tho he was well defended by Shaq tonite.. he still had a near .500 shooting game..
While Francis/Mobley takes pressure off him by only shooting good shots.. which is why they shot soo well today against LA..
but yes.. francis did force a lot of shots up that probally wouldn't go in normally.. but Francis should be able to still get like 7-16 or 8-20 fg
which is okay..

[benji]

I like this gameplan: Keep Yao. Peddle Mobley to LA in sign-and-trade for Kobe. Get Forwards. Add Bench. Stir.

One of the reasons the Timberwolves crumbled in the first round last year was the lack of such a player. Sure, let's give the Lakers credit where credit is due, but the Wolves' second best scorer, Wally Szczerbiak, attempted fewer than 10 shots in half of the games in the 6 game first round series.

Timberwolves Starters
Minutes Per Shot/eFG% (FGA per game/minute)
Regular Season:
K. Garnett - 2.24/.508 (18.1/0.45)
W. Szczerbiak - 2.52/.523 (14.0/0.40)
T. Hudson - 2.72/.479 (12.1/0.37)

Playoffs
K. Garnett - 1.92/.525 (23.0/0.52)
W. Szczerbiak - 4.13/.500 (10.2/0.24)
T. Hudson - 2.08/.467 (17.7/0.48)

It looks like Hudson turned into that player (the description you gave, "I believe that every team needs a player who is willing to put up shots no matter whether he starts out by hitting his first five attempts or missing his first five attempts.", also sounds like Hudson). Szczerbiak dropped 4 attempts a game, but KG added 5 attempts and Hudson 6 attempts. KG shot better and Hudson dropped slightly compared to Szczerbiak. This of course corresponds to the Lakers strongest defensive area (Wing) and their weaknesses (PF and PG).

If all three can co-exist, then the Rockets are a force to be reckoned with.

I wouldn't say that. Mobley is not a star, and it appears Francis (though we will have to see) can't be one when he isn't getting eleventy billion 1-4 clearouts.

What the Rockets need depends on whether they sign-and-trade Mobley for Kobe (Kobe's hinted at Houston when he puffs himself out to feel important when Shaq is getting too much attention) or if they're stuck with Mobley. If they were able to get Kobe, I'd say, deal Francis immediately. Send him out for forwards and a marginal point guard. Maybe Tinsley and Harrington (I'm ignoring salaries from here on) to start. A three point bombing perimeter defender would be a nice addition as well, they have the three point bombers (Pike...did have Rice too) and defense (Adrian Griffin) but they need to combine them. Shane Battier would be delicious, of course I have no idea what they could trade for him...so they'd have to hope Jerry West lets him go since he's already paid up for Miller+Posey+Wells and will try and work in Jones. Then they can just fill out the bench.

C- Yao
F- Harrington
F- Battier
G- Kobe
G- Tinsley

Not mind-blowing, but at least four of them will work hard, Van Gundy would love the tough defense and Battier. It would be a better club than what they have now and it would be a base to build off of once the Big Five wind-down (two years tops).