bulls/raptors trade revisited

by **air gordon** on Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:26 am

many users on this forum were to quick to point out how the raptors shafted the bulls in that big trade between the two teams and how good the raptors are now. but lets take a look at both teams now, about a month later

Raptors
the raptors came out like gangbusters, winning 5 straight. carter, rose, marshall all looked rejuvenated. scoring was up- the team hit 100pts back to back to back. good times for raptors fans

now the team has lost 5 out of it's last 6. maybe that winning streak earlier was a fluke, as it should be noted that the wins came against average at best teams. while marshall continues to play like abdur rahim with a 3point shot, rose seems to be settling back to his pre-trade self: no defense, high TO's, low FG%. the grace period is over. earlier i was hearing raptor fans bragging how they got rose and marshall, now i hear 'hey, at least we got marshall'. it should be pointed out that throughout his career, marshall's production and health take a big dip right around all star break.

paper talentwise, the raptors have improved, but their record necessarily hasn't. marshall has been a gem but does it overcome the lack of defense the trade brought to the team on both the perimeter and interior? financially, the team is stuck with that big contract that rose has.

Bulls
the bulls are 3-11 since the trade. still pitiful but with exception of the nets game, in the 8 losses, chicago had an opportunity to win the each game (in many of them, they even had the lead in the 4th qtr). a great improvement considering before the trade, most of their losses were bigtime blowouts. they even pulled off a 2 game winning streak w/o anything resembling a post game (curry was injured in the 1st qtr of the pacers game).

until at least one of their key injured players (curry, chandler, pip) come back, the losses will continue. but at least the team remains competitive. while the offense is lacking, which can also be attirbuted to injuries, their defense has improved. and financially, williams & davis have shorter contracts then rose.

did the raptors really shaft the bulls in this big trade or did they shaft themselves?

by **DipSetVC** on Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:20 am

Yo man, I've been a Raptors fan for 9 years and have been very frustrated watching Antonio and JYD since their hands are made of stone and they occasionally air ball lay-ups. I still think the trade was good for both teams considering when Tyson Chandler who seems to be turning into Marcus Camby and Eddy "Flop" Curry return. (If your gonna hate on the Raps, I'ma clap back)

by **Vins15** on Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:43 am

at least itz still better than the bulls...i still would have done this trade even though JYD is the fan favourite in Toronto...

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:21 pm

(If your gonna hate on the Raps, I'ma clap back)

With no disrespect intended to DipSetVC or anyone else, can one say anything these days without being labelled a "hater"? I mean, we should be able to criticise aspects of the game or someone's play without being accused of hating.

(I must stress that I'm not moderating, just giving my opinion.)

Eddy "Flop" Curry

Eddy Curry, a flop? Not quite. His career numbers are decent given he's only played 19.4 minutes per game over his career. He hasn't exploded the way many of us Bulls fans expected/hoped he would now that he's playing 30 minutes per game, but I for one consider his numbers to be quite solid - except for field goal percentage, his numbers are up from last year.

I know I was very disappointed with the trade, mainly because the Bulls traded both Rose and Marshall. I understand that Rose needed to go, but I'm always wary of giving up too much talent. The trade has kind of grown on me, though to be honest I would have preferred a deal that brought the Bulls a marquee player. But the Bulls are injury plagued right now, so they're not at full strength. With Curry, Chandler and Pippen healthy and contributing, they should be much better.

I think the trade is very much like the recent Boston-Cleveland deal. While it fulfils a need for both teams and may yield fairly good results, it's not a deal that makes either team significantly better or worse. It hasn't turned Chicago into a top eight team in the East, and it hasn't vaulted Toronto into serious title contention.

Perhaps we'll have to keep evaluating the deal as the season progresses. As crawford4MIP4real noted, the Bulls will gain some cap relief much earlier now that they've taken on the contracts of AD and JYD. The effects of a trade such as this one are usually felt later rather than sooner.

by **Stevan** on Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:26 pm

when Tyson Chandler who seems to be turning into Marcus Camby and Eddy "Flop" Curry return. (If your gonna hate on the Raps, I'ma clap back)

See what I mean about Raptor fans being sensitive! Where did he hate on the Raps? He was pointing out certain things which are true.
Good post Limp. I truly believe that if it wasn't for the injuries, this trade would have worked out fairly well for the Bulls. As you pointed out they've been playing better since the trade with a fairly limited roster, and with JC shooting like Antoine Walker. To still be in games after all that is pretty good.
JC had a good game against Cleveland today though, and a win this time.

I think the Raps will be a playoff team based on their offensive output, but once the defensive intensity is raised in the playoffs, they'll struggle and probably exit first round.

by **DipSetVC** on Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:29 pm

Andrew since your a big Bulls fan, I wanted to get your opinion on something. I heard that the Bulls are planning on buying out Jay Williams' contract, if it's true, what do all you Bulls fans think? And if Williams is able to return, what will become of him, with the emergence of Crawford, do they still need him?

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:41 pm

Even with the way Crawford and Hinrich are playing right now, the Bulls could still use a player like Jay Williams. He might not have been the player they were expecting to take with the second pick (though who knows how he would be playing now the Bulls have abandoned the triangle), but he could still be a solid backup at point.

And of course, it's very unfortunate for Jay personally, to have his career potentially end so soon. It's true that he sustained the injury being foolish - riding a motorcycle he was not licensed to ride - but it's a terrible price to pay for a mistake. It's fortunate that his injuries aren't worse than they are.

It seems that he will no longer be able to play, so it's probably for the best that a buyout is arranged, and apparently he will still be involved in the Bulls in some capacity. If he can return to the NBA down the road, it would be great to see him attempt a comeback with the Bulls. But for now, a buyout is probably the best action to take after a very unfortunate accident.

by **fgrep15** on Sat Dec 27, 2003 3:15 pm

i didn't like rose the whole time, i wanted crawford, even when rose was doing good i was still not pleased and he was never playing good D

by **air gordon** on Sat Dec 27, 2003 8:56 pm

it was only a matter of time before JC's shots started falling. skiles needs to stop making him a 'catch and shoot' shooter- i think this is the main reason for his walker like fg% the past few games... it was a treat to watch this guy light up every defender the cavs were throwing at him. the 'king' of the nba needs new ankles after being mixed up several times. JC even did a good job defending him (thanks to great team defense as well)...

dip- you sure are right about davis and jyd's shortcomings on offense, more specifically davis. for crying out loud, blount is a more reliable scorer then him. thought i'd never say that. davis has no post moves whatsoever. but i'll glady take his and jyd's lack of scoring skills just as long as they continue to be juggernauts on the offensive boards and on defense

haha bulls already have more road victories then they did last year

by **Matt** on Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:21 am

I feel sorry for J Will.........one day your and NBA player and the next your suddenly out of the game because of foolishness. If that happened to me i would not be able to sleep at night, not for a long long time. I imagine that it was his dream to play in the NBA, and after just 1 season that dream has been shattered if not ended.

The Bulls have to move on though as a franchise

bulls/raptors trade revisited

bulls/raptors trade revisited

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