Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

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Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby Jeffx on Thu May 30, 2019 8:54 am

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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby Andrew on Thu May 30, 2019 5:04 pm

Given there's hints of a rift between Harden and Paul, it wouldn't be altogether surprising if they tried to move CP3. His age, durability, contract, and being on the downside of his career are obviously incentive to try to trade him, even if it is easier said than done considering those factors.

However, I don't think it's fair to lay all the blame at his feet. It's not fashionable to say it because of his big numbers, but blame falls on Harden as well. He's had impressive stats, but they're often a bit empty and with eyebrow raising caveats, such as nights where he's scored a lot of points but also shot 1/17 from downtown. His style of play doesn't seem conducive to success in the Playoffs, where his shooting dips. I'm not saying he needs to go, but questions can also be raised about his style of play and the Rockets' gameplan. At the very least, I don't think that trading away an ageing Chris Paul is the one issue they need to fix.
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby air gordon on Fri May 31, 2019 12:54 am

who's pointing the blame mostly at CP3?

the article says "because of his age and cost, Paul is the Rocket most likely to be shopped" and "Daryl Morey was calling other front offices with “an aggressive desire” to make the roster better. No player or pick is off the table"

though he is an easy target considering his numbers significantly dropped and again missed games.

kudos to Morey. savage
A source within the Rockets organization told Jonathan Feigen of the Houston Chronicle that “‘Run it back’ is not what we do.” This isn’t Portland. Houston is more attached to winning than it’ll ever be to a certain player or plan.


but questions can also be raised about his style of play and the Rockets' gameplan.

perhaps or maybe this is an issue of just not being able to beat a great GSW team
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby Dee4Three on Fri May 31, 2019 1:06 am

Or, it's the style of play, which the eye test clearly shows was an issue. Which Chris Paul contested D'Antoni about throughout the season, and was brought up again when Harden and CP3 had to be separated after game 6.

It's not championship winning basketball, which it seems that anybody who truly knows about basketball was saying even early on in the season.

If 45 three point attempts PER GAME (over 50% of shots attempted), a SG Isoing the majority of the game while his teammates stand around, and just piss poor shot selection all around doesnt make you question the style of play, you dont know basketball.
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby [Q] on Fri May 31, 2019 1:11 am

Losing Ariza was huge. Great defender who can shoot 3s.

They tried to fill in the roster this year but obviously didn't have the right pieces. Even though they lost to the warriors, it was a fairly close series but like in the Portland series the warriors would turn it on and pull away at the end when they needed to
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby Dee4Three on Fri May 31, 2019 1:16 am

[Q] wrote:Losing Ariza was huge. Great defender who can shoot 3s.

They tried to fill in the roster this year but obviously didn't have the right pieces. Even though they lost to the warriors, it was a fairly close series but like in the Portland series the warriors would turn it on and pull away at the end when they needed to


I dont agree that it wasn't the right pieces, nobody can get into a rhythm with that style of basketball. Players on the roster were capable of more, but they were being stuck in the corners just standing around while Harden would dribble fit at the top of the key into a poor shot.

You literally had a team in the Rockets that refused to use post or mid range play, and made its actual PG a ball watcher off the ball.

Chris Paul was limited as a creator, Capela was basically used like he was Cody Zeller (not all the time, but much of the time), Eric Gordon was only allowed to create when Harden was off the floor, and everybody else was just standing around on offense.
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby air gordon on Fri May 31, 2019 1:21 am

even those fun nba vids mentioned larry bird was working his ass off in the offseason... coming into the garden and running laps in the stands. i'm sure larry legend takes pride in that but how about the other legends he played against, specifically magic johnson? not counting mistress totals obviously

riddle me this, anyone. how do you beat the warriors in a best of 7 series? the league hasn't figured out how to beat the warriors. cleveland got one by them when curry was injured and green was sack hunting
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby Dee4Three on Fri May 31, 2019 1:33 am

air gordon wrote:riddle me this, anyone. how do you beat the warriors in a best of 7 series? the league hasn't figured out how to beat the warriors. cleveland got one by them when curry was injured and green was sack hunting


Not by Harden shooting 19-78 threes in the 17-18 seven game series, with 34 turnovers and 39 assists. Or him going 27-77 from three with 23 turnovers and 31 assists in the 6 game series in 18-19. That is the guy that you are allowing to handle the ball at a 40-50% usage rate, that certainly isn't the way you beat a team who plays together and the right way.

No team has been able to beat them because the teams that do play a better brand of basketball don't do it at as high of a level as GS does. With Houston, they are incredibly predictable with that style of basketball. They are literally taking post and mid completely out of the gameplan, opposing teams don't even need to guard those two areas really. They also take the other players on the Rockets almost completely out of the game, because one person is dominating the ball.
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby air gordon on Fri May 31, 2019 1:57 am

lol ok we get it. houston is blah blah this. blah blah that again.

so how do you beat the warriors? anyone else?
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby Dee4Three on Fri May 31, 2019 2:39 am

air gordon wrote:lol ok we get it. houston is blah blah this. blah blah that again.

so how do you beat the warriors? anyone else?


Well until I think you get it, I'll keep repeating it. Also, new information was provided in that most recent post to give you more clarity. Hope it helps.

Jacking up outside shots when Golden State is missing it's starting center, and its best paint defender is undersized Green, you would think that attacking the paint more would be ideal, or atleast getting closer to the hoop. When the opposing team doesn't have any elite rim protectors, and you have as many players who CAN penetrate and get shots closer in, that might be one avenue of bridging the gap. Kevon Looney and the sparingly used Jordan Bell certainly don't scream intimidation.

If Draymond Green is the "worry" in regards to attacking, getting him on switches like Golden State does so well would be ideal. It would pull him out of the paint and open it up even more. However, seldom did I or do I ever see teams forcing Draymond Green out this way, and when I do, I see players settling for outside shots still instead of attacking.

Other teams also don't play GS the right way in this regard, as Lillard was routinely settling instead of attacking (When he wasn't being forced to give up the ball), same with the supporting cast. In a three happy league with so many undersized centers, attacking the paint should be the #1 priority. Yet, you have Harden attempting close to 80 threes in both series (On ISOs on almost all attempts, and with so many contested ones and step backs), and not shooting a good percentage at that.

So one way to have a better chance at beating them is by attacking the paint more, and putting more pressure on the defense on other areas inside the three-point line. Defensively, stop with the constant switching (Yes, it's a switch everything league, which how many teams have gotten burned by the by GS?). More accountability in regards to fighting through screens and staying with your assignment.

And, sharing the ball and having a more balanced attack would certainly create far more problems for GS's defense. It's easy to play a team that ISO's constantly. So in Houstons case, that would have also benefited them.
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby air gordon on Fri May 31, 2019 7:18 am

id have to disagree with those assessments

attacking the basket is easier said then done against GSW's excellent individual and team defenders.. or not to switch on a pick when GSW has possibly the best perimeter shooting duo of all time

have fun fighting through a screen when those guys can just rise up off that pick and hit another 3. bang
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby Dee4Three on Fri May 31, 2019 7:28 am

air gordon wrote:id have to disagree with those assessments

attacking the basket is easier said then done against GSW's excellent individual and team defenders.. or not to switch on a pick when GSW has possibly the best perimeter shooting duo of all time

have fun fighting through a screen when those guys can just rise up off that pick and hit another 3. bang


Yes, because constant ISO and contested outside shots is the better option, or your best player shooting close to 80 threes in a series with most being contested. That is the BETTER alternative than setting more screens on offense, getting better looks and putting more pressure on the defense (mixing it up). Makes a lot of sense

Just like the Nuggets losing to the Blazers in game 7 going 0-16 threes in their last 16 attempts, that worked well for them as well. Maybe attacking the paint or getting close on a few of those 16 attempts might have had them moving on, but hey what do I know? Worked well for Houston and Boston in both game 7s last year as well.

Sticking up for Houston's play style will always be a major head scratcher for me (and some of the players on the damn team were reported to brought up the issue with coach), including Chris Paul himself.

And yes, the guys who can rise up and shoot threes. Certainly better to switch Nene or Capela out on Curry, or OKC switch Adam's out on Curry, or POR switching Kanter on Curry. Or CLE switching Thompson onto Curry,that is clearly the winning formula.

You take away the ridiculous bombing of contested threes, some of the poor shot selection (say 60 of hardens missed threes are 20 in last years GS matchup), or Ariza didnt continue bombing when it wasn't falling, you may have seen HOU in the finals. But you ask how to beat them? Well, better shot selection, better ball distribution is a hell of a start.

Excellent individual defense can be curved by great screen setting and ball movement. You dont beat great individual defense by being an individual yourself and ISOing. You make the defense move, make them run through screens, send cutters to the hoop, give the defense different looks by using more of the floor. You should know this.
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby air gordon on Fri May 31, 2019 10:09 am

kanter and whichever traditional houston big were played off the court. were you even watching the games? c'mon

another poster want to chime in and spare us of more houston bball "philosophy'? i hope Coach nurse is taking notes :lol:
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby Dee4Three on Fri May 31, 2019 10:17 am

air gordon wrote:kanter and whichever traditional houston big were played off the court. were you even watching the games? c'mon

another poster want to chime in and spare us of more houston bball "philosophy'? i hope Coach nurse is taking notes :lol:


Ah yes, my point was lost on you (not surprising). I brought up Thompson, Kanter etc as examples of bigs who HAVE switched out onto him in present or past and have been burned. You yourself acknowledged Nene switching on Curry and Curry Isoing on him for a big three late in a game. Most every time a big switches out on Curry he kills them.

Dont ask the question if you don't want an answer, no NBA head coaches are in this chat. If you wanted an answer from one, you shouldn't have asked. And stating that you want to be spared of the HOU chatter, and disregarding all the different and valid points I made in regards to different ways to attack GS (HOU or not), is once again cherry picking. It's incredibly obvious and pretty embarrassing.

Cherry picking while making ZERO valid points. But yes, continue not acknowledging the many things I said they could have done better to win because well... you are a tool.

And yes, a tool. The blah blah blah earlier makes you that. It's as flaming as calling you a tool.

And oh my to asking me if I watch the games. You are the epitome of basic and vague in almost every "discussion", you ask more questions than make any valid points. I can guarantee I watch more basketball than you, unless you are just a very poor communicator or playing dumb.

What a joke, literally every basketball "discussion" with you is that (never a discussion because you seldom ever say anything). You are just a troll.
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby [Q] on Fri May 31, 2019 12:45 pm

Dee4Three wrote:
[Q] wrote:Losing Ariza was huge. Great defender who can shoot 3s.

They tried to fill in the roster this year but obviously didn't have the right pieces. Even though they lost to the warriors, it was a fairly close series but like in the Portland series the warriors would turn it on and pull away at the end when they needed to


I dont agree that it wasn't the right pieces, nobody can get into a rhythm with that style of basketball. Players on the roster were capable of more, but they were being stuck in the corners just standing around while Harden would dribble fit at the top of the key into a poor shot.

You literally had a team in the Rockets that refused to use post or mid range play, and made its actual PG a ball watcher off the ball.

Chris Paul was limited as a creator, Capela was basically used like he was Cody Zeller (not all the time, but much of the time), Eric Gordon was only allowed to create when Harden was off the floor, and everybody else was just standing around on offense.

Chris Paul had an MVP season with the Hornets as he was given the ball like Steve Nash and had it in his hands for like 95 percent of their possessions, running pick and pop with David West. Perhaps they'd have a better chance with Paul dominating the ball instead of ball watching? Should they trade garden for like a klay Thompson who doesn't need the ball
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby Dee4Three on Fri May 31, 2019 12:57 pm

[Q] wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
[Q] wrote:Losing Ariza was huge. Great defender who can shoot 3s.

They tried to fill in the roster this year but obviously didn't have the right pieces. Even though they lost to the warriors, it was a fairly close series but like in the Portland series the warriors would turn it on and pull away at the end when they needed to


I dont agree that it wasn't the right pieces, nobody can get into a rhythm with that style of basketball. Players on the roster were capable of more, but they were being stuck in the corners just standing around while Harden would dribble fit at the top of the key into a poor shot.

You literally had a team in the Rockets that refused to use post or mid range play, and made its actual PG a ball watcher off the ball.

Chris Paul was limited as a creator, Capela was basically used like he was Cody Zeller (not all the time, but much of the time), Eric Gordon was only allowed to create when Harden was off the floor, and everybody else was just standing around on offense.

Chris Paul had an MVP season with the Hornets as he was given the ball like Steve Nash and had it in his hands for like 95 percent of their possessions, running pick and pop with David West. Perhaps they'd have a better chance with Paul dominating the ball instead of ball watching? Should they trade garden for like a klay Thompson who doesn't need the ball


Paul having a 22% usage while Harden has a 40% usage is a major problem. I agree with that being a viable option. But it's more about how Paul is being used for that 22%, he is not used in any way shape or form the same as Nash for his 22%.

Nash had a 22% usage roughly most of the time, while Stoudamire had a 26% usage which was the highest on the team. The ball moved, more players got touches and got into a rhythm, A LOT more body movement on offense. And like I said prior, 24 threes a game attempted compared to 45.

They won't build around Paul now, and his contract is atrocious. But If they are forced to hang onto him and are going to make another attempt at a run, the offense needs an overhaul, and IMO that starts with ball distribution and where they attack on the floor.

Remember how much of a sniper Paul was from mid? His game has also resorted to many more threes, take away some of those terrible contested threes the Rockets took, and put Paul in the mid range (still his bread and butter), and you may have a different outcome in atleast one of the games (maybe more, they were close).

Not utilizing the mid or post AT ALL is a killer.

And again, it's not as much Chris Paul's usage %, it's how hes used for his % and how Hardens used for his (ISO!) with most of the squad just standing around watching him dribble at the top of the key. His turnover/assist ratio isn't exactly gold, hes not making anybody around him better with that style of play.

In regards to trading Harden. I dont know what his contract looks like, but I know I think his play style and demeanor on the court is bad for basketball, so I couldn't cheer for the guy. BUT, I think Houston and Morey specifically would be heavily criticized for any move of Harden, and I think if they do an overhaul to the offense maybe they can get buy in from him and finally get to the finals.

I wonder what management around the league thinks of Capela, and what his stock actually is.
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby air gordon on Fri May 31, 2019 9:45 pm

NBA coaches don't read this forum? Thanks for that nugget

You need a hug

Ariza was a big loss for sure
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby Dee4Three on Fri May 31, 2019 9:54 pm

You are useless.
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby Dee4Three on Fri May 31, 2019 11:25 pm

*Posting this here as well because it is literally what I have been talking about on this thread*

What the Raptors did last night is EXACTLY how you compete with the Warriors on the offensive end.

Siakam: 32 (12 of his 14 makes were from TWO, he went 2-3 from downtown)
Kawhi: 23
Gasol: 20
Van Vleet: 15
Green: 11

25 assists on 39 field goals.

Kawhi with 5-14, and as much as the media tries to paint the biggest stars as "solo acts", that's not what wins games. Curry, LeBron etc in no way shape or form won by themselves.

As I stated in the other thread. Offensively the way Toronto attacked GS is exactly the way you compete better with the Warriors, and exactly how you attack good individual defense. Ball movement (25 assists on 39 made shots), body movement (Picks and screens), using more of the floor, and getting everybody in a rhythm, not just one or two guys.

And again, this Warriors team that was on the floor is NOT a super team. They literally have two offensive studs, and do not have the depth that Toronto does. If they can put the clamps on ONE of the two (Klay or Curry), holding them to an average game, Toronto has a great chance of winning.
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby Dee4Three on Fri May 31, 2019 11:37 pm

Here is an excellent breakdown of the salary cap situation going into the 19-20 season. Via Rockets Wire

https://rocketswire.usatoday.com/2019/0 ... e-rockets/
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby NovU on Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:49 am

CP3 experiment definitely failed especially when you look at core of the traded players who made a lot of noise this year and took the Warriors to 6 games.

CP3's age has definitely played part. On both ends, he is just not the same player anymore.
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby [Q] on Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:46 pm

I think it was more of a fit issue as opposed to age, although maybe age contributed to his injuries. I mean, he's a good 3 point shooter but his mid-range is way better
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:04 pm

[Q] wrote:I think it was more of a fit issue as opposed to age, although maybe age contributed to his injuries. I mean, he's a good 3 point shooter but his mid-range is way better


And the fact that he is not allowed to run the offense much at all, if at all.

He is forced off the ball, which has never been his game. A lot of his usage % is from when he stays on the floor with Harden out and runs the second unit.

Its fit more than anything.
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby NovU on Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:51 pm

Ofc it is a fit issue as well but his decline is also natural for an undersized pg well into 30s. Surely none of us expected him to improve his game with the Rockets.

This is why Curry is special. He can play two guard as his release is quicker and higher. Paul doesnt have as much off the ball movement either. Best suited, he is a traditional type pure pg.

While CP3 isnt extreme high usage player, his effectiveness is felt the most with ball in his hands. But having him over prime Harden is a tough argument at this stage of their careers.
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Re: Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets?

Postby Andrew on Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:41 pm

[Q] wrote:I think it was more of a fit issue as opposed to age, although maybe age contributed to his injuries. I mean, he's a good 3 point shooter but his mid-range is way better


It was weird to see him passing up open threes and other good looks in the Playoffs. Who knows what that was all about; he didn't look physically incapable or hindered out there, but definitely a bit shaken.
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Andrew
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