2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

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Who ya got?

Warriors in 4
0
No votes
Warriors in 5
1
17%
Warriors in 6
2
33%
Warriors in 7
0
No votes
Rockets in 4
0
No votes
Rockets in 5
0
No votes
Rockets in 6
1
17%
Rockets in 7
1
17%
Warriors lose, sign Kawhi to MLE
1
17%
 
Total votes : 6

Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby Dee4Three on Fri May 24, 2019 2:24 am

Anybody could see that what they got away with in the regular season wouldn't work in the playoffs. It wasn't sustainable. Chris Paul (and I guess other Rockets) wanted more ball movement, but coach wasn't having it.

Constant ISO ball, poor shot selection, selfish play, players just standing around.

As I stated before, the reasons Houston was sent home (again)


Members of the Houston Rockets, most notably Chris Paul, had spirited discussions with Mike D'Antoni throughout the season about incorporating more movement within the offense.

D'Antoni adapted his offense to be more isolation based to allow James Harden to succeed.

The Rockets have had success playing this way in the regular season, but defenses can key in on these types of tendencies in the playoffs with more ease.

In the regular season, Harden scored 1.11 points per possession in isolation. In the postseason, Harden scored 1.04 points per possession in isolation.

Harden and Paul had tense moments with one another throughout the Rockets' Game 6 loss to the Warriors, culminating in a verbal back-and-forth postgame that went into the locker room, according to sources. The exchange was about ball distribution in Game 6.

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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby sticky-fingers on Fri May 24, 2019 2:36 am

In the other hand, most of this season and postseason, CP3 is playing like an old man and had his big contract.
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby Dee4Three on Fri May 24, 2019 2:39 am

sticky-fingers wrote:In the other hand, most of this season and postseason, CP3 is playing like an old man and had his big contract.


He is a PG, and was taken off the ball the majority of the time. He was forced to stand around and play like old Shane Battier a good portion of the time.

He could have been used differently and been more effective. But, most everybody was taken out of there games because of Houstons style of play.
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby air gordon on Fri May 24, 2019 4:19 am

sticky-fingers wrote:In the other hand, most of this season and postseason, CP3 is playing like an old man and had his big contract.

i did hear a lot of that during the regular season. guess i didn't notice his lack of clutch play but it was apparent this series

if lillard signs that ludicrous contract extension, i hope he/the contract doesn't end up an albatross like CP3
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby [Q] on Fri May 24, 2019 12:36 pm

How does the way Pringles plays Harden differ from the Nash days? Ultimately he wants the ball in their hands for as long as possible. The difference being Harden a tremendous scorer and Nash a facilitator but deadly sniper as well. Or is this the limit of the D'Antoni offense we saw in Phoenix?
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby Andrew on Fri May 24, 2019 1:12 pm

Great in the regular season, can't get over the hump in the Playoffs does seem to be the trademark of D'Antoni-led teams.
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby Dee4Three on Fri May 24, 2019 1:13 pm

[Q] wrote:How does the way Pringles plays Harden differ from the Nash days? Ultimately he wants the ball in their hands for as long as possible. The difference being Harden a tremendous scorer and Nash a facilitator but deadly sniper as well. Or is this the limit of the D'Antoni offense we saw in Phoenix?


Q, no comparison.

The Suns were predicated on constant movement. Nash never dribbled down the shot clock into bad shots. Yes, they ran the high screen and roll a lot with Stoudamire, but Nash was a master at getting the other guys involved, whether it be Marion, Joe Johnson, later Grant Hill, etc.

Nash had amazing shot selection, picked his spots wisely. Watching Nash with the Suns followed by watching the now Rockets, is completely night and day different.
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby air gordon on Sat May 25, 2019 12:53 am

[Q] wrote:How does the way Pringles plays Harden differ from the Nash days? Ultimately he wants the ball in their hands for as long as possible. The difference being Harden a tremendous scorer and Nash a facilitator but deadly sniper as well. Or is this the limit of the D'Antoni offense we saw in Phoenix?

fair point as harden does such a great job on reading where the help comes from.

but i do think PHX did play with much more pace.. some awesome athletes they had then. ah good times
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby NovU on Sat May 25, 2019 3:29 pm

Give D'antonI Curry, KD, Thompson and Green, he wont have problem winning it all.

Harden's prime years unfortunately coincided with Warriors dynasty era. Its like you have Boston's big three and ready to go all the way but LBJ just teamed up with DWade in south beach. It doesnt matter how well you are coached and play, you would still lose as long as the opponent dont fuck it up too much.


I think that was also the issue with Nashs suns era, not nearly as obvious as Harden's but pretty close.
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby air gordon on Sat May 25, 2019 11:46 pm

interesting point there skip

it seems good ol' coach pringles get a bad rap here... perhaps the bitter lakers fans having a hand in that... seems like nash avoids all this. i think there was some backlash when he won his MVP's but nash is still highly regarded and in the hall of fame.

would've been nice to see a prime boston big 3 face south beach 3 instead of when they were already up there in age...
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby Dee4Three on Sun May 26, 2019 1:11 am

I was hoping you guys were trolling, but you are being totally serious... it's unreal.

The eye test shows they played a totally different brand of basketball when he was coaching the Suns, and Nash and Harden were used totally different. But stats also show it.

3PA

18-19 Rockets - 45.4
06-07 Suns - 24.0

3PA Ratio

18-19 Rockets - 51.9% (Over HALF the teams shots!)
06-07 Suns - 28.7%

USAGE % (Pay attention)

James Harden: 40.5% (7.5 APG)
Steve Nash: 22.9% (11.6 APG)

Primary Ball Handler 3PA Ratio (Comparing how many threes they took relative to twos)

James Harden: 53.9%
Steve Nash: 35.3%

Primary Ball Handler Assist Ratio

James Harden: 39.5%
Steve Nash: 50.1%



You guys stating that D'Antoni is getting a bad rap, and not faulting him at all for this system, and actually comparing it to the way he used Nash and the Suns, is really poor. Watching the two teams is literally night and day. Almost double the three point attempts for this Rockets team, OVER HALF of the teams shot attempts, with constant ISO with the teams SHOOTING GUARD at the top of the key. Meanwhile, the Suns with Nash were shooting about HALF of the three pointers, and were in constant movement offensively. Screens, back picks, high pick n roll, players diving and cutting, posting up, etc. Which is why they only attempted 24 threes a game and averaged about 110 PPG.

The primary ball handler Nash had almost HALF the usage, but 4 more assists per game. He wouldn't hold the ball long at all, it was CONSTANT movement on offense. These stats easily show that the way D'Antoni is coaching the Rockets and the way he coached the Suns is night and day different. Just because it's the same coach, doesn't mean that he is coaching the same way, and certainly doesn't mean that he is just getting a "bad rap". he deserves to be criticized and critiqued. Saying Nash got a free pass, when he played entirely different than Harden, and the offense ran entirely different, is a really poor take.

And finally, just because both teams didn't make the finals with the same coach, it doesn't means that the brand of basketball is the same in the least, or that one isn't better than the other. Vastly different styles of play. And the fact that you both were old enough to watch those Suns, and are still saying this, is incredibly puzzling, and why I questioned if you were trolling. During those years with the Suns it wasn't the offense that was knocked, it was the defense mostly. The offense was considered elite. For the Rockets, the OFFENSE was consistently critiqued all year by many former players, Chris Paul himself (And supposedly other Rockets teammates), the media and the fans. It is a incredibly poor comparison.
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