Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

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Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:47 am

This is a well written piece.

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2018/10/30/dragan-benders-contract-not-being-picked-up-is-significant-for-the-phoenix-suns/

Bender has looked... terrible. I'm not sure how he was taken 4th in the draft, does lateral movement/athleticism, or defense in general matter at all when making these selections? It's obvious to see that he is not gifted in any of those areas, nevermind not being able to dribble, or create his own shot, or have any resemblance of a post game. Yes, he is/was young, but he had glaring issues before even being taken in the draft. The confidence they had to take him so early puzzles me. We do play in a stretch big NBA, where floor spacing is vital. However, a lot of big guys can shoot now, why take one that offers NOTHING else?

Following that, I guess they labeled Chriss as a poor mans Stoudamire, but did they intend on making him a better shooter? Even as the article states, he can't hit anything with confidence more than 5 ft away from the basket. They went one way with Bender (Stretch the floor), and went with a slow/can't shoot traditional big in Chriss? I don't get it...

Taking Ulis who started at Kentucky might be the safest of the 3, because of his actual basketball skill and abilities. But again, how often do guys his size make a splash in the NBA? Boykins, IT, Muggsey, Webb, Nate Robinson, and a few others. Size had to be a legitimate concern from the beginning... right?

With other picks, the verdict is still out on Josh Jackson, Ayton looks like he will be a stud, and Booker is a great scorer but questionable in most other areas. In the offseason, they paid $15 million for one season to Trevor Ariza (Rental).

I hear a lot about New York and Chicagos blunders.... but jesus... Phoenix should be talked about equally at this point. Scratching my head at all these decisions.
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby Andrew on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:35 pm

The Suns' blunders and dysfunction does fly under the radar somewhat. It seems they've corrected course with Deandre Ayton, though. He's looking quite good early on.
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby spiderxx7 on Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:59 pm

Yep, I think Booker and Ayton are the only true useful players they've drafted in a decade.
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby Phil89 on Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:46 pm

I don't think Bender has the right mentality to be a good NBA player. He just seems very unassertive on the court. He gets out-rebounded by guys much shorter than him, for example.

He is still only 20 though, so at least he has time on his side to turn things around.


Also, the 2016 draft wasn't that great after the top 3, so you can somewhat forgive the Suns for gambling on someone who they probably thought could be another Porzingis.

It didn't work out for them unfortunately. They seem to have nailed the Ayton pick though.
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:50 am

Phil89 wrote:I don't think Bender has the right mentality to be a good NBA player. He just seems very unassertive on the court. He gets out-rebounded by guys much shorter than him, for example.

He is still only 20 though, so at least he has time on his side to turn things around.


Also, the 2016 draft wasn't that great after the top 3, so you can somewhat forgive the Suns for gambling on someone who they probably thought could be another Porzingis.

It didn't work out for them unfortunately. They seem to have nailed the Ayton pick though.


Yeah he has no confidence.

But, even still, how do you take Bender over Dunn? or Hield? or Jamal Murray? A lot of players ahead of him had more upside with less glaring issues. Go all the way to the 30th pick in the draft, and you have Damian Jones who is starting games just a couple years later. Obviously some of this stuff is not predictable, but at the same time, the issues with Bender which I mentioned above were pretty obvious from the start.

The writer states what everybody saw, that the excitement surrounding Bender/Chriss went away almost immediately once people saw them actually play. I can't give them a pass on this draft, those two picks just don't make sense to me. Like I said, Ulis makes a little more sense, but not Chriss and Bender.
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby [Q] on Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:02 am

I remember playing NBA Playgrounds 2 years ago, seeing this guy in the game and thinking who the fuck is this guy lol

It's not only the Suns making bad picks, they're mismanaging the team as well. Think about how they had 3 great point guards in Thomas, Bledsoe, and Dragic and managed to fuck it up with all three of them.
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:11 am

[Q] wrote:I remember playing NBA Playgrounds 2 years ago, seeing this guy in the game and thinking who the fuck is this guy lol

It's not only the Suns making bad picks, they're mismanaging the team as well. Think about how they had 3 great point guards in Thomas, Bledsoe, and Dragic and managed to fuck it up with all three of them.


Oh totally, that's why I can't believe the dysfunction isn't talked about more. Granted, its Phoenix who has a far less storied history than Chicago or New York. But man...

I remember when Dragic was playing behind Nash, they were talking about him being the replacement. And, while he never progressed to be as good as Nash, Dragic is a REALLY good player in this league. They never really gave I.T. a chance.
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby Phil89 on Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:03 pm

Dee4Three wrote:
Phil89 wrote:I don't think Bender has the right mentality to be a good NBA player. He just seems very unassertive on the court. He gets out-rebounded by guys much shorter than him, for example.

He is still only 20 though, so at least he has time on his side to turn things around.


Also, the 2016 draft wasn't that great after the top 3, so you can somewhat forgive the Suns for gambling on someone who they probably thought could be another Porzingis.

It didn't work out for them unfortunately. They seem to have nailed the Ayton pick though.


Yeah he has no confidence.

But, even still, how do you take Bender over Dunn? or Hield? or Jamal Murray? A lot of players ahead of him had more upside with less glaring issues. Go all the way to the 30th pick in the draft, and you have Damian Jones who is starting games just a couple years later. Obviously some of this stuff is not predictable, but at the same time, the issues with Bender which I mentioned above were pretty obvious from the start.

The writer states what everybody saw, that the excitement surrounding Bender/Chriss went away almost immediately once people saw them actually play. I can't give them a pass on this draft, those two picks just don't make sense to me. Like I said, Ulis makes a little more sense, but not Chriss and Bender.

There always seems to be at least one international guy who gets overhyped and goes in the top 10.

In the last 10 years there is Luka Doncic, Frank Ntilikina, Dragan Bender, Kristaps Porzingis, Mario Hezonja, Dante Exum, Jan Vesely, Bismack Biyombo, Ricky Rubio and Danilo Gallinari. Fair to say that most of them haven't lived up to the hype, although Porzingis looked great before his injury.


As for Phoenix, I can only assume they passed on Murray and Hield because they had drafted Booker the year before. And I think they had Eric Bledsoe and Brandon Knight at the time, so Dunn would have been unnecessary as well.

Presumably they went for Bender and Chriss on a needs basis as they only had Alex Len, Tyson Chandler and Alan Williams on their roster. They would have been better off using one of those picks on Domantas Sabonis. Even Thon Maker looks like he would have been a better gamble than Bender.
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby Stress Fracture on Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:37 pm

[Q] wrote:
It's not only the Suns making bad picks, they're mismanaging the team as well. Think about how they had 3 great point guards in Thomas, Bledsoe, and Dragic and managed to fuck it up with all three of them.


Thomas was a bad fit from the start, why sign a starting caliber (at the time) PG to be a Sixth man?
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:53 am

Phil89 wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
Phil89 wrote:I don't think Bender has the right mentality to be a good NBA player. He just seems very unassertive on the court. He gets out-rebounded by guys much shorter than him, for example.

He is still only 20 though, so at least he has time on his side to turn things around.


Also, the 2016 draft wasn't that great after the top 3, so you can somewhat forgive the Suns for gambling on someone who they probably thought could be another Porzingis.

It didn't work out for them unfortunately. They seem to have nailed the Ayton pick though.


Yeah he has no confidence.

But, even still, how do you take Bender over Dunn? or Hield? or Jamal Murray? A lot of players ahead of him had more upside with less glaring issues. Go all the way to the 30th pick in the draft, and you have Damian Jones who is starting games just a couple years later. Obviously some of this stuff is not predictable, but at the same time, the issues with Bender which I mentioned above were pretty obvious from the start.

The writer states what everybody saw, that the excitement surrounding Bender/Chriss went away almost immediately once people saw them actually play. I can't give them a pass on this draft, those two picks just don't make sense to me. Like I said, Ulis makes a little more sense, but not Chriss and Bender.

There always seems to be at least one international guy who gets overhyped and goes in the top 10.

In the last 10 years there is Luka Doncic, Frank Ntilikina, Dragan Bender, Kristaps Porzingis, Mario Hezonja, Dante Exum, Jan Vesely, Bismack Biyombo, Ricky Rubio and Danilo Gallinari. Fair to say that most of them haven't lived up to the hype, although Porzingis looked great before his injury.


As for Phoenix, I can only assume they passed on Murray and Hield because they had drafted Booker the year before. And I think they had Eric Bledsoe and Brandon Knight at the time, so Dunn would have been unnecessary as well.

Presumably they went for Bender and Chriss on a needs basis as they only had Alex Len, Tyson Chandler and Alan Williams on their roster. They would have been better off using one of those picks on Domantas Sabonis. Even Thon Maker looks like he would have been a better gamble than Bender.


Right, but you would think that franchises would learn to not draft because of position need, but draft the best player. Has Sam Bowie and Darko Milicic taught these teams anything? also, combo guards (Booker is a SG but can play some point) paired with another guard that can play both PG and SG, is always a viable option. Since when is having a talented backcourt not good enough, instead gambling on a guy with so many questionable areas in his game?

Also, I never hear anybody talk about Sam Perkins being taken ahead of Charles Barkley in that same Jordan draft. Perkins went at 4, Barkley went at 5. Perkins went on to be a serviceable NBA player, but Barkley went on to be a legend and a superstar.
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby air gordon on Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:30 am

that's just taking the all time worst case scenarios.
it works both ways. recently-
the kings gave a lot of $ to zebo and still continue to draft big men (and signed and start nemanja) while they have no SF
blazers traded up for zach collins with nurk around while still needing a perimeter shooting SF
twolves drafted dunn with rubio

bonus the bulls drafted marcus fizer even though brand was picked the year before
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby [Q] on Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:39 am

Minnesota drafted Flynn and Rubio with consecutive picks. They continued to sign and draft pgs even after Rubio came here. Shows how much they liked him.
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby air gordon on Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:44 am

lol its really the same franchises that are mediocre. its management/ownership. no coincidence its the suns, kings, twolves swimming at the bottom
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby [Q] on Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:06 am

Just look at Sterling's clippers and how no matter how much promise they showed, they'd always return to mediocrity. Man, that young team with brand, Odom, miles, qrich, maggette, dooling was so fun to watch. Could've been great

Even in other sports you can see the bad owners too like the Cleveland Browns
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby shadowgrin on Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:38 am

iirc the Suns is the same franchise that didn't want to draft Kawhi Leonard because he was apparently nervous and sweat a lot during a predraft interview and didn't speak much, which is funny considering it describes what we now know of Kawhi's introverted personality.
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby Jackie Kong on Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:42 am

Then again, if Suns drafted Leonard and Spurs drafted Bender you might be taking about the bench warmer with the weird laugh and the Dragon God Bender.
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby Lamrock on Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:44 am

Haters gonna hate, but I think that if he really works hard, he can still be a poor man's Meyers Leonard
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby Andrew on Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:42 am

air gordon wrote:bonus the bulls drafted marcus fizer even though brand was picked the year before


My only memory of Marcus Fizer on the court is a long heave at the end of the quarter that missed everything and knocked some fan's popcorn out of his hands. I think that sums up his career quite well, actually.
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby Jackie Kong on Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:59 am

Lamrock wrote:Haters gonna hate, but I think that if he really works hard, he can still be a poor man's Meyers Leonard

Meyers Leonard is poor man's Meyers Leonard already.
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby shadowgrin on Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:23 pm

Andrew wrote:I think that sums up his career quite well, actually.

Take that back.

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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby Dee4Three on Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:43 am

His highlights are also terrible.
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Re: Dragan Bender option declined - The lost 2016 draft - And other Phoenix blunders

Postby air gordon on Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:46 am

Some random music selections for a highlight video

Think the dude scored 30+ against maybe the raptors in one of the final games of another lost bulls session
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